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DC Universe Surgery

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15:10 / 12.08.05

Superboy was cloned by the Cadmus Project, the research think-tank who employed Guardian and the Newsboys, and released immediately after Superman's death back in '93. It was just recently revealed that Luthor was actually behind the whole operation, and that he planted part of his own DNA, and some kind of nasty mind-control programming, into Superboy, who then went nuts, shaved his head bald, and developed a fetish for burning "L"s into things with his heat vision. The combined Teen Titans and Outsiders whooped him back into shape, and he's presently recuperating on the Kents' farm. He is also crazy hot now with the short hair and the jeans and *ahem*.

Power Girl's origin is totally confused, but they're writing the One True Definitive Origin right now in JSA CLASSIFIED. In the past, they've said she's Kryptonian, but that now appears to be untrue.

12:45 / 13.08.05

The best origin idea I've heard for her is that she's actually the Power Girl from Earth-2, who somehow survived Crisis without being revamped.

09:21 / 14.08.05

There was also that Time Trapper version of Superboy, from the alternate reality that Matrix/Supergirl/Lana Lang came from. Hm, what DID happen to the Matrix-goo entity after Supergirl became all Linda Danvers? And has it been explicitly stated that the Kara-ghost is the pre-crisis Supergirl? Power Girl was the Earth-2 Supergirl, that Earth's Kal-El's cousin, I get that much, but when did she aquire that stupid vulnerability to natural materials? Guh, now I remember why I stopped reading Supergirl.
Heh, Superboy is like the testtube lovechild of Superman and Lex Luthor, an observation I'm sure none of them would appreciate.
Oh, and back on the subject of The Madness of John Byrne, I heard in... World of Metropolis #2? "What I did on my Summer Holidays"? he had Lex Luthor videotape an underage Lois Lane being raped by his bulldyke-cliché bodyguards so he could enjoy it over and over in the privacy of his office, presumably while he Byrne-chokes his chicken with his one good hand? WTF? This sounds a bit over the top, even for Beardy. Has anyone got this issue? Can I borr OH SHIT EDIT can you confirm this?

13:17 / 14.08.05

when did she aquire that stupid vulnerability to natural materials?

Don't know, but as has been stated, the definitive Power Girl origin is being wrtitten in the pages of JSA CLASSIFIED. Currently, it's been said that her powers and vulnerabilities come and go with no rhyme nor reason. So sometimes she's vulnerable to natural materials, sometimes not.

I heard in... World of Metropolis #2? "What I did on my Summer Holidays"? he had Lex Luthor videotape an underage Lois Lane being raped by his bulldyke-cliché bodyguards so he could enjoy it over and over in the privacy of his office

For the love of all that is holy, tell me that isn't true...

(Like I really needed another reason to hate that contemtable bastard. Uh, Byrne, that is, not Luthor.)

16:30 / 14.08.05

>> vulnerable to natural materials

what exactly do they mean by this? There are a lot of things that could be considered 'natural materials' out there in the world.

rabideyemovement

17:36 / 14.08.05

She aqcuired the vulnerabiltity to unprocessed materials in Supergirl #16 where she was impaled by a tree branch, and later confessed that sticks and stones may really break her bones. I think that's the only use of that vulnerability, they quickly went back to Kryptonite and magic.

rabideyemovement

17:46 / 14.08.05

Whatever happened to Power Girl's son, Equinox? She gave birth to him during Zero Hour and he later fought Scarabus. Has he ever revisited Earth?

16:52 / 15.08.05

Power Girl had a SON??!?!? This I never heard of.

16:53 / 15.08.05

And I actually read Zero Hour and remember most of it. A pregnant Power Girl, I don't remember, though.

18:35 / 15.08.05

I actually just re-read Zero Hour (cough) and I remember being caught off-guard by this, too. I'd be very curious to hear the answer to this one. (And who was the father, while we're at it?)

19:11 / 15.08.05

I swear, I never touched that girl.

19:42 / 15.08.05

the pregnancy an imaculate conception, something to do with Arion coming up with the idea for a boy, freezing the idea, and then giving it birth through her when she came of age, or something strange, back when Power Girl was supposed to be an Atlantean frozen in time. He became a villian, and vanished.

22:48 / 15.08.05

while we're on supergirl/powergirl, in, like chapter 4 of the first Superman/Batman story arc (jeph loeb again, I think), there's a sequence where all of batman's sidekicks and all of superman's sidekicks break into the white house. And the supergirl there is all black leotards and short black gloves, black pageboy cut and a stylised red S on the front - who the hell is she? Never seen her before or since.

Also, there's a teenage girl Steel in that story too - what's up with her?

m.

Jake, Colossus of Clout

23:09 / 15.08.05

You would have, though, grant. Don't deny it.

In avoiding the Loeb Supes/Bats series like the plague, I missed out on the new belly shirt Supergirl. What's her deal, anyway?

23:11 / 15.08.05

And the supergirl there is all black leotards and short black gloves, black pageboy cut and a stylised red S on the front - who the hell is she? Never seen her before or since.

I think she is a future daughter of Clark and Lois, brought back to our time due to some Time wrapping villian.

Also, there's a teenage girl Steel in that story too - what's up with her?

I think she's is Steel's daughter. Mr Iron's was dead for a bit after Our worlds at War, but he may have got better... ?!?!

23:15 / 15.08.05

In avoiding the Loeb Supes/Bats series like the plague, I missed out on the new belly shirt Supergirl. What's her deal, anyway?

she is the original supergirl, you know, Kara, cousin of superman, the one that died in the Crisis, but was obviously erased in zerohour so that she could arrive fresh in the twenty first century.

Jake, Colossus of Clout

23:43 / 15.08.05

Oh.

That makes a certain amount of sense.

I guess Supes isn't the last Kryptonian anymore, but he is still the Last Son of Krypton. I always thought Kara undermined Superman's character. A big part of his makeup is the fact that he's the last member of a dead race, and will always be a singular being among puny humans. Supergirl undermines that. I wish I hadn't asked.

00:21 / 16.08.05

A big part of his makeup is the fact that he's the last member of a dead race...

...aside from, y'know, all the Kryptonian criminals banished to the Phantom Zone.

Oh, and the eight million residents of Kandor, which sits in a bottle on Superman's knick-knack shelf.

Face it: Silver Age Superman weren't the "Last Son" of jack squat.

Jake, Colossus of Clout

01:00 / 16.08.05

That's true, but modern-era Supes was. Or he at least started out that way.

01:35 / 16.08.05

but DC seems to be very big on hero 'families' and legacy. 3 generations of Flash (and one dead one), Bats and his whole gang, The rebirth of the Green Lantern Corps... seems only natural that they wanted a Supes 'family' as well... and one without really confusing matrix/earth-bound angel backstory...

Jake, Colossus of Clout

02:02 / 16.08.05

They definitely are. Doesn't mean it makes for good characters or good stories. I feel that, in the case of Superman and Batman, it waters down the original character. Bats works best as a lone, driven, lunatic vigilante. Supes is best as the outsider who embodies all of humanity's best qualities while not actual being part of them. To me, anyway. Bat- and Super- families weaken the central concepts of each character.

02:02 / 16.08.05

Super-family was fine with Kal-El being the only alien. Superman was the alien baby, Superboy was a clone, Steel was a dude in a suit of armor, Supergirl was a machine(I liked the Matrix thing)...

Where Batfamily was all pride and thuggishness, and Wonder Family was myth and sisterhood, Superfamily was all over the science fiction genre. Homogenizing "Super" to mean flight, strength and heat vision from a dead planet is really kinda boring.

Yeah, I even liked the Kristen Wells Superwoman too.

06:23 / 16.08.05

Bats works best as a lone, driven, lunatic vigilante.

Interesting. Could you give me an example?

06:24 / 16.08.05

I'm particularly keen to hear more about the "lunatic vigilante" bit.

rabideyemovement

06:38 / 16.08.05

I agree that Batman and Superman work better when their families are pared down a bit. I see both as loners. That's one reason I can't get enough of Mr. Majestic. He's everything Superman should be. Maybe Abnett and Lanning could write some good Superstories.
The Batman family tree should be pruned. All he needs is Alfred and Jim Gordon. And maybe Harold and Ace. (But it's too late for them I suppose.)

Jake, Colossus of Clout

06:49 / 16.08.05

Boboss- Batman Year One.

07:49 / 16.08.05

When it comes down to it, aren't Batman and Catwoman just a couple of furries yiffing on a rooftop?

08:43 / 16.08.05

>DC seems to be very big on hero 'families' and legacy

and this is what i like and don't like about DC, some of the stuff (like the JSA trades i have read recently) just seem weighed down with fat beard expectations and a sense of their of historicism whilst other bits (the bottle city of kandor, though not sure if that survived crisis?) is just wonderful silver age fun and i love it

also while i am moaning about the JSA, the new sandman sucks ass. the old one was just so strange and wonderful. anyone know the link between him and Gaimans goth sandman character, and how DC ended up with 2 characters with the same name?

08:52 / 16.08.05

Gaiman had the golden age sandman being affected by the sleeping disorder that hit the world when Daniel was imprisoned, and taking the name and fighting crime because of lack of dreams or something.

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:00 / 16.08.05

Also, there's a teenage girl Steel in that story too - what's up with her?

John Henry Irons sorta died in Our Worlds at War, then got a suit of armour made out of an Imperiex Aegis (don't even ask) from Darkseid, which turned him evil for, like, about twenty seconds. Possibly as a result of all this crap, he has developed some condition that makes him unable to use the armour (and who hasn't ignored the "do not drive or operate a gigantic suit of powered armour" label once in a while?), so his niece (niece?) has become Steel... um.... 4, I think.

12:24 / 16.08.05

>> I think she is a future daughter of Clark and Lois, brought back to our time due to some Time wrapping villian.

You won't see her again, she went away, never to return. The character was lame and now that we have the Supes' cousin Supergirl, no other Supergirls will be needed. Steven Seagle's run on Superman (which is where the above-mentioned Supergirl was created) was really awful...

16:47 / 16.08.05

Jake, I wouldn't describe Year One bats as a "lunatic vigilante", although I kinda think I know what you're getting at. It should be pointed out however, that a high point (the climax of the book even) is when he ceases to be a loner and bonds with Gordon.

Jake, Colossus of Clout

17:38 / 16.08.05

Well, Batman needs a supporting cast, specifically Alfred and Gordon, but I don't think he needs Bat-satellites like Robin, Nightwing, the awful, awful newer Batgirl, Oracle, etc, etc. If Batman is going to bust into a mob meeting and knock everybody's teeth out, he should do it alone, not with Nightwing, Huntress, Robin and the goddamn Spoiler backing him up. Batman doesn't need backup. He should be fighting his neverending battle by himself. He'll call Gordon to arrest people and have Alfred stitch him up, but the nitty-gritty should be solo.

I do think he's a lunatic in Year One, and in general, really. Look at what he does with his nights!

17:53 / 16.08.05

Yes, and this is why Most Sacred Continuity sucks.

Batman works best as a loner, but his themes demand that he open up to help. Be it Gordon, Nightwing, the several Robins, the fucking SQUIRE, ...et cetera infinity. He's lost his family tragically, but he's continually surrounded by the most us vs them minded individuals in fiction.

Batman should always be alone in winter, meet a Robin in spring, lose Robin by the start of Fall, and begin alone again with the schoolyear.

I agree that the Bat family diminishes Batman, but it is kinda cool when you add up the efforts of Nightwing, Oracle & the Birds, Robin, and the sucky Batgirl. Perhaps there can be two Batmen? One that operates in his books, devoid of "help", and then one that inspires and sometimes leads the battle for the Gotham Knights. Two different kinds of stories. Maybe a DCU Earth-Team and Earth-Solo? S'what I'd do, at least.

18:25 / 16.08.05

the old one was just so strange and wonderful. anyone know the link between him and Gaimans goth sandman character, and how DC ended up with 2 characters with the same name?

Three -- there's also Hector Hall. Unless he's the "strange and wonderful" one you're referring to, in which case Wesley Dodds. (I'm not up on JSA right now.)

Hector Hall was in the Gaiman Sandman as the dead guy taken captive by the escaped nightmares Brute & Glob and held in dreaming. His subsequent adventures are related elsewhere in this very thread -- he's involved with a lot of weird DCU magic stuff. He was Dr. Fate more recently, yeah?

Wesley Dodds was in the old JSA, I think (I know I've read a JSA series with him in it), fighting crime in the 1940s with a gas gun. Officially, he's linked to the gothy Sandman because, as pointed out up there, when Morpheus got kidnapped, there were voids in the Dreaming and people tried to fill them without knowing why.

If you haven't read the Wesley Dodds stories in Sandman Mystery Theater and this is the character you like, then I think you're missing out.

Why are there three with the same name? Writers wanted to tell their own stories, while DC wanted to wake up old titles. That's the very abbreviated version.

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