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DC Universe Surgery

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A

04:03 / 26.06.04

If you can't get with the Legion Of Super Pets, then what's the point of living?

16:44 / 28.06.04

this may be a tall order, but could anyone break down the various eras of the JSA/JLA/JLI/etc in current continuity, in terms of who (primarily) was on the team when and how they ended up evolving from one team into another?

if anyone could explain how the Titans, Outsiders, Young Justice, and whichever other teams are out there fit into that history, it would be neato.

Dan Fish - @Fish1k

17:47 / 28.06.04

THIS SITE has info on the Outsiders, as well as JSA and other teams. It has lots of time-lines, etc. Shame it doesn't include JLA, but you might get some of what you want from the JSA pages.

Dan Fish - @Fish1k

17:47 / 28.06.04

I take that back, it does include some JLA stuff.

05:19 / 29.06.04

Outsiders?

05:20 / 29.06.04

Superman had a Centaur? Did he actually ride his Centaur? Did he ride him good? Superman is sooo gay! But in a good way obviously...

18:35 / 29.06.04

The Outsiders were a team of heroes organized by Batman. They were, as the name implies, a little less clean-cut than the JLA.

That site confuses me. Anyone care enough to give a simple summary of Justice League history?

23:59 / 29.06.04

Shortest of forms:

Foundation of the JLA

Secret Sanctuary Era

Snapper Carter betrays the JLA

Satellite Era

Detroit Era (includes Crisis)

Legends, leading to the...

JLI/JLE/JL-Whatever Era

Extreme Justice Era

Grant Morrison Era.

15:26 / 09.07.04

Based on the recent Grant Morrison interview, who was/is The Spider?

15:44 / 09.07.04

yellow. bow and arrow. that kind of thing.

16:38 / 09.07.04

The SPIDER was an archer type adventurer with-out the trick arrows. He was put to GREAT use in the very excellent STARMAN series of a few years back.

18:40 / 12.07.04

Some questions I had after the recent Identity Crisis book:

1) When (and why, maybe) did Ray Palmer get divorced? Awwww, I felt bad for him.

2) Do Ma and Pa Kent know that Batman is Bruce Wayne and that Bruce's parents are no longer living? (I guess not, from Brad Meltzer's scene in IC #1, but it was a topic I'd never thought about before)

3) Elongated Man is listing JLA heroes who had bit the big one. He of course mentions Barry and Hal, but he also mentions "Constance" and "Vivien," I think. Who are these people? I think one of them is Gypsy, who died somewhere around the end of JUSTICE LEAGUE QUARTERLY, I think, right??

4) Is Bolt a Blue Devil villain? Why is it funny that his account password is Blue Devil?

5) We probably all know Zatanna's father, Zatara, who croaked in the Alan Moore extravaganza SWAMP THING #50 (or thereabouts). But in IC #1, Elongated Man says he watched Zatanna's mom die. Who was her mom, and how did she die?

6) Didn't Captain Atom, who appears in IC #1, die heroically in the really-horribly-written Jeph Loeb SUPERMAN/BATMAN #6?

19:02 / 12.07.04

3) Elongated Man is listing JLA heroes who had bit the big one. He of course mentions Barry and Hal, but he also mentions "Constance" and "Vivien," I think. Who are these people? I think one of them is Gypsy, who died somewhere around the end of JUSTICE LEAGUE QUARTERLY, I think, right??

I don't remember Gypsy dying...
But Constance and Vivian D'Armis were twin sisters who were the Crimson Fox. I rememeber Viv dying, but Constance, too? Hmm.

6) Didn't Captain Atom, who appears in IC #1, die heroically in the really-horribly-written Jeph Loeb SUPERMAN/BATMAN #6?

Atom doesn't ever die, he just gets blown up and shunted through time. So he's probably back from that little misadventure.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

20:21 / 12.07.04

Didn't one of the Fox's get killed by the Mist in the latest Starman series, it was a standalone issue when the Mist tells her baby son about how she went to Paris to steal something, and killed a load of crap superheroes that wanted to start Justice League Europe, or am I getting that Fox mixed up with someone else?

20:51 / 12.07.04

1) When (and why, maybe) did Ray Palmer get divorced? Awwww, I felt bad for him.

Going back to the Sword of the Atom mini-series (late 1980s?), Jean left Ray for another man (an architect?), because Ray was inattentive (what with being a research scientist AND a superhero). He then appropriately went on a mid-life crisis with a microscopic yellow barbarian girl.

2) Do Ma and Pa Kent know that Batman is Bruce Wayne and that Bruce's parents are no longer living? (I guess not, from Brad Meltzer's scene in IC #1, but it was a topic I'd never thought about before)

I assume they know very little about that world. Superman afterall is no gossip.

4) Is Bolt a Blue Devil villain? Why is it funny that his account password is Blue Devil?

Yeah, he's a Blue Devil villian. I thought it was amusing because supervillians always seem so much more pathetically obsessed with their arch-enemies than heroes do.

5) We probably all know Zatanna's father, Zatara, who croaked in the Alan Moore extravaganza SWAMP THING #50 (or thereabouts). But in IC #1, Elongated Man says he watched Zatanna's mom die. Who was her mom, and how did she die?

Sindella sacrificed herself to save the Justice League from the Hidden Ones. And then Zatanna started wearing her old clothes (the skintight gygpy-ish one, not the lovely tux and fishnets).

21:05 / 12.07.04

Wow, thanks. This thread is just one of the many reasons I heart Barbelith.

02:21 / 13.07.04

Seconded.

That last Starman series was "DC Universe Surgery" disguised as a wonderful story, and in the best possible way. How did Jor-El have the co-ordinates to Earth (with the Kryptonians being portrayed as highly xenophobic, at the time)? Starman. What about a lot of that cheesy Golden Age stuff, like the girlfriends of the JSA fighting Dr. Brainwave, how do you reconcile that with your grim "real-world" comic book universe? Starman. Friggin' Solomon Grundy, sent by Alan Moore into space? Starman. I just wish someone would use Jake Benetti in a comic book, preferably one with Animal Man. Oh, and Lady, the Mist did indeed kill (one of the) Crimson Foxes, along with Amazing Man (for shame) and Blue Devil. As was pointed out in some other comic, some of them got better.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

03:24 / 13.07.04

Going back to the Sword of the Atom mini-series (late 1980s?), Jean left Ray for another man (an architect?), because Ray was inattentive (what with being a research scientist AND a superhero). He then appropriately went on a mid-life crisis with a microscopic yellow barbarian girl.

It was a great series of mini-series and specials drawn by Gil Kane, and was about as popular as The Atom has ever been, really. It was also some of the best of Gil Kane's later art, since he seemed very exicted about drawing it, much like like John Buscema was always at his best drawing Conan in black and white because he loved the material so much.

12:39 / 13.07.04

>> Friggin' Solomon Grundy, sent by Alan Moore into space?

Huh? Alan Moore didn't ever send Grundy into space, did he?

12:48 / 13.07.04

And I second Starman's greatness - just a wonderful series. Thankfully they're finally getting around to the final TPBs now.

17:51 / 13.07.04

From what I understand, Green Lantern would often imprison poor Solomon Grundy on the moon. Once, when he was really annoyed with him, he and Dr. Fate sent him off in a bubble into deep space. Eventually he ended up on a planet where Swamp Thing (and then Jack Knight) came across him. It was definitely during Alan Moore's run and I think the issue was title "My Blue Heaven."

Our Lady Has Left the Building

18:56 / 13.07.04

Nope, i've got all the Swampy trades and Grundy isn't in them. 'My Blue Heaven' is the first one where Swampy's frequency has been changed so he can't control plant matter on the earth (as he's busy attacking Gotham City at the time to get Abby Arcane freed from custody) and his essence is ejected into space. He comes across a world where the plant matter is blue, which he can control. He initially keeps himself happy by creating a town full of people, but then his subconsciousness manifests as a plant John Constantine and makes him go off in to space to find a way to return to Earth.

20:38 / 13.07.04

Yeah, that's the story. Are you saying that Solomon Grundy isn't in it?

21:38 / 13.07.04

Solomon Grundy isn't in that story but he does make his way to that blue planet (apparently it has a strong "plant consciousness" attraction) and beats on Jack a bit when he lands there himself.

it's been pretty well established that the various Solomon Grundy's are "failed" Swamp Thing type plant elemental attempts

21:43 / 13.07.04

thinking of Solomon Grundy brings some memories of Swamp Thing fighting THE GREY(?) which where the equivilent of er.... Mold Elementals? Perhaps that's where Solomon & Swampy converge.

12:18 / 14.07.04

the various Solomon Grundy's

There's more than one?

14:02 / 14.07.04

Well, I guess this totally backs up Solid State's theories about the ret-con genius of James Robinson. Somehow, Robinson's story actually rewrote my memories of that Swamp Thing comic. Crazy....

Spyder Todd 2008

14:16 / 14.07.04

Damn you people and your ability to make me buy things! Now I'm starting to buy the Starman trades (The first one is pretty good so far, I only just started it, but I'm off to buy the second one tonight, so it must be good...)!
As to the brilliance of James Robinson, I have three wrods for you: The. Golden. Age.
If you think the 40's comics were sucky, go buy this right now. This mean you. Buy it. Read it. Bask in it's glory. And do it right now. Go on. We're waiting.

20:13 / 14.07.04

What makes Starman so good?
A synopsis of the series would be really useful.

I've got one of the trades -- it ends with him deciding to leave for space. I feel like I was missing out on a lot with that one.

21:01 / 14.07.04

WHAT makes Starman So good?

geeze grant... what a question...
Let's start with some of the most consistantly amazing art published. With the exception of a handful of fill-in issue the majority of the 80 issue run was done by 2 great artists... (I don't recall their names) Let's here it for the long lost concept of an artist that can not only meet deadlines but maintain an ever improving artistic standard.

I'd say the same holds true for the maticulously organized writting. Events are forshadowed 20 issues in advance in such a way as to not be a dangling plotline but to feel like deja vu when the forshadowed event occurs. Even the most mundane and "random" occurances resonate throughout the series.

The Synopsis:
Jack Knight is the second son of Ted Knight, the Golden Age STARMAN. He's a "junk collector" more at home in vintage Hawaiian shirts and surrounded by relics of the 30's than any sort of spandex and technology. He is not interested in playing heir to the mantle of STARMAN and his Father would rather that title go to his first born son Danny. Danny however is shot dead on his first night out (panel 1 page 1 issue 0).

From that point onward Desperation and Circumstance force Jack into a "temporary" role as a not so heroic STARMAN. the story of a reluctant hero evolves into a tale of unorthodox heroics, family heritage and the very meaning of the title STARMAN and it's reach throughout space and time. We get glimpse of "times past" with tales set throughout the history of OPAL city as well as of the many heroes who held the title of STARMAN... past, present and future.

Amidst it all, heroes are corrupted, villians are redeemed and perilous voyages through time, space, hell, consciousness and a variety of genres are ventured upon. Okay so maybe I'm getting a little dramatic. Still, it's such an amazingly high quality read that every published work (you know those 80 page giants, annuals and secret files that DC puts out) associated with STARMAN before or during that series serves to deepen the STARMAN mythos. By that final issue there is such a level of completion that there need never be another published story about STARMAN and yet one can't help but wish it would go on and on and on!

01:17 / 15.07.04

Recently found the "Golden Age". Wow. damn fine stuff, right up until the end revelation, which took away from the sheer dystopian brilliance of the preceeding two issues. Not gonna spoil it, but said revelation has grown on me since. Damn shame though, as I hate having to theorybitch a plot point into appreciation.

Tony Harris drew most of Starman, and I don't have a clue who the other "good" penciller was, since everything seemed bland next to Mr. Harris. The quality of the entire series suffered terribly when he left (which would be around when Jack leaves for space, grant. I'd highly reccommend grabbing the first trade, which isn't as sweet or polished as the next 30 issues, but gives a great idea of the hipness and craft of the book). There were backup bits, text pieces excepted from the Shade's centuries-old journal, and they sold the book for me. I don't know if they're in the trades; they should be, but I have a feeling they're not. I gather J. Robinson loves old junk (dogeared comics and yellowed Fisher-Price packed into the same box at a garage-sale) and would happily hide gold only to be found by other treasure-hunters.

01:32 / 15.07.04

Minor correction: Jack's older brother was David, not Danny.

01:50 / 15.07.04

The second main starman artist is Peter Snejbjerg. I actually ended up liking his run better than harris'... He's just a better cartoonist, for all of Harris' talents as a draftsman and a stylist. Snejbjerg is understated and elegant and his understanding of the mechanics of cartooning shines through his work.

10:17 / 15.07.04

Oh, I got one. Remember that G.M. issue of Animal Man where he's wandering through comic-book limbo, meeting all the losers like the Red Bee and such, and he meets this guy on a motorbike who's looking for his sister? Who was that guy? I remember reading a story with this fella back in the eighties, when Federal comics were reprinting everything willy-nilly in big B+W anthologies. I think this character would have been late-sixties, early seventies...

11:03 / 15.07.04

Jason, from "Jason's Quest" in SHOWCASE #88-90

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