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Marvel Mythology Surgery

 
  

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Jack Denfeld
05:40 / 23.08.05
Hey guys, let's not Skull Skrew Mark Millar. He co-wrote it.
 
 
thirty/thirty
05:42 / 23.08.05
ah hercules, surely the greatest oaf ever to wear spandex

and strappy sandals...lest we forget.

I always liked Agatha Harkness, and I hope someday they find a way to bring her back

That's what I hate about these "super-writers" like Bennis and Morrison...they sweep into town, write their critically acclaimed archs and such, and when they're all done they disappear into the sunset leaving a trail of dead in their wake. A trail of dead that includes pensioner witches and Russian mutants named Darkstar.

Hopefully Wanda pushing the reset button on the MU will return to our bosoms such beloved characters such as Hellcat (seriously) and Manslaughterer (not serious at all). Then she'd finally have another go at hooking up with Hank McCoy.
 
 
thirty/thirty
05:51 / 23.08.05
Oh, I just realized something. Patsy has a cat fetish, right? Oh, and guess what? Since the last time they saw each other...Beast has in fact devolved into an enormous cat monster. Kismet in retrograde, I'm sure.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
05:58 / 23.08.05
You know what pisses me off about comics? People forget friendships! Beast and Wonder Man used to be great buds, and Beast would jump into Wonder Man's arms and give him a great big bugs bunny style kiss when he'd see his buddy in the old Avengers days, and you could play with that just a little, maybe have just a shot of Wonder Man chillin in the X-Mansion hangin' back a bit in a panel, but nooooooo, it's like they don't even know each other anymore, and they never even had a goodbye story, or why they aren't best buds anymore story.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
07:30 / 23.08.05
Manslaughterer? You jest, I'm sure. At least, I hope so.

I always loved Wonder Man, the big, dumb dork. How could anyone hate on Wonder Man? Poor bastard's had a rough time of it.
 
 
Lord Morgue
09:53 / 23.08.05
Nova is a dirty slut. I've never forgiven her for dumping the Silver Surfer for Firelord IN THE MIDDLE OF A FIGHT. Now that's just Paris Hilton low. I mean, Johnny Storm, Norrin Radd, Firelord, Galactus, Hercules, she's a big dirty space slut!
 
 
rabideyemovement
13:24 / 23.08.05
WAS a big dirty space slut...
She's dead now, I think.
 
 
Aertho
13:51 / 23.08.05
So was the aforementioned Nova a fiery mutant? What's her whole deal? I know from pictures that she had fire where her brain used to be.
 
 
rabideyemovement
14:35 / 23.08.05
I think she was the step-daughter of Phineas T. Horton, the scientist that built the original Human Torch android. Her name was Frankie Raye, and she used to date the Human Torch. She could flame-on in a similar manner, and the FF trained her for a while, but she went and hooked up with Galactus and got the Power Cosmic.
She traveled the universe with Kubik, the sentient form of the Cosmic Cube, for a while there...
Speaking of which, is the Cosmic Cube currently being fought over in Captain America the same Cube as the original. The cube was supposedly the larval stage for the Kubik lifeform. Is there a new Cube or was he devolved?
 
 
quinine92001
20:09 / 23.08.05
Please try to explain the convulted time streams of the X-Men. Cable's timeline, Rachel(Cable's half-time sister cultleader), and Bishop's timeline. I seem to recall that in age of Apocolypse Bishop was a bit 12 Monkeyish a being with the knowledge of his time, the past that he knew and then the enew overlapping past causing him to go bonkers-but what really happen? Did he ever find the X-Men's killer, and furthermore what did Gambit know about it? Is the Days of Future Past storyline still accepted Will Franklin Richards still become the most powerful mutant on the earth who sacrifices himself so that kitty can go back...?
 
 
Quimper
20:30 / 23.08.05
I know that the Bishop future stemmed from a traitor in the X-midst slaughtering the main team. Turned out the traitor was Xavier...actually Onslaught. The Onslaught opening bookend began with the same message from Jean Grey that Bishop saw in his future...with all the gaps filled in. When Bishop absorbed the lethal blast from Onslaught meant to destroy the X-Men, the future was prevented. Gambit's role was that he was the sole survivor of the attack, but didn't want to tarnish Xavier's name, so never told.

Cable and Rachel...you're on your own kiddo. Good luck!
 
 
Mr Tricks
21:29 / 23.08.05
In short, Racheal is from a timeline where Scott Summer (Cyclops) and the Phoenix (disguised as Jean grey) have a daughter. This becomes the "Days of future past" future were she becomes a sort of psychic bloodhound hunting down other mutants. She makes it to the Marvel 616 present where she then inherits the Phoenix force proper and returns to that future with Excalabur to put an end to those sentinals.

Amidst the various time travels she gets lost in time and is flung into the far future where Apocolypse reigns. There she spends her adulthood organising a resistance and starts a cult stupidly named As'Kani or whatever.

Meanwhile Scott Summers fathers a baby boy; Nathan. Racheal is there to witness his birth. Apocolypse infects him with one of those technorganic viruses forcing Scott and Madie Pryor (Nathan's Mom) to send him off into the distant future where Racheal is there to catch him.

After Scott and the now resurected Jean Grey get married their minds are pulled into the future by Racheal. It's one of her last acts before being killed. In that future they both raise the young Nathan as their own. Apocolypse captures him and creates a clone who would grow up to become Stryfe. Scott & Jean return to their own time once young nathan is a teenager and has been taught to use is considerable psychic powers. As an adult he will travel back in time to attempt stoping Apocolypse in the late 20th century and distroy the future that was his home. Appariently he susseeded.

Recently A new Racheal Summers as appeared in the present. It is currently uncertain if this is the same racheal or another one whose parents are the "true" Jean Grey and Scott Summers.
 
 
thirty/thirty
05:29 / 24.08.05
You know what pisses me off about comics? People forget friendships! Beast and Wonder Man used to be great buds, and Beast would jump into Wonder Man's arms and give him a great big bugs bunny style kiss when he'd see his buddy in the old Avengers days, and you could play with that just a little, maybe have just a shot of Wonder Man chillin in the X-Mansion hangin' back a bit in a panel, but nooooooo, it's like they don't even know each other anymore, and they never even had a goodbye story, or why they aren't best buds anymore

Oh, exactly what I was thinking...sort of. In the first issue of House of M, when Beast walks into the conference room along with the other Astonishing X-Men, would it have killed him (or rather Bendis) to cast a playful glance at ol' Wonderman or at least show them catching up on old times later on.

Manslaughterer? You jest, I'm sure. At least, I hope so.

Oh, I jest you not. But the name his name is actually Manslaughter...I added an extra 'er' for dramatic effect. He was a Defenders character who wore purple knitted gloves and a nice, big purple bow to pull his ensamble together.

I always loved Wonder Man, the big, dumb dork. How could anyone hate on Wonder Man? Poor bastard's had a rough time of it

I never liked Wonder Man at all. The idea of a crap Hollywood actor flying around dressed like a 30's movie director with little jet boosters on his hips never appealed to me for some reason. But that all changed when Kurt Busiek and George Perez at a crap at him...what a lovely ionic man turned out be.
 
 
thirty/thirty
05:32 / 24.08.05

Oh look, how camp...even without his trademark knitted purple gloves.
 
 
Aertho
13:34 / 24.08.05
Racheal is from a timeline where Scott Summer (Cyclops) and the Phoenix (disguised as Jean grey) have a daughter.

Sorry, but no. That was the theory for a long time though. Excalibur 52 reveals that Rachel was born of the very human union of Scott Summers and Jean Grey, on Earth-DOFP. That Jean Grey never experienced a Phoenix event on the space shuttle. Yet she died at the hands of some villian during Rachel's childhood. Then things went to shit. And DOFP took hold.

Rachel's own mutant power (she inherited tp and tk from Jean) was temporal astral projection. To figure out why DOFP was not averted during the Senator Kelly affair, she threw her own mind into the past, and realized she was crosstime... in 616. The ghost of Jeanix bonded with Rachel's astral form, and followed her into the future of Earth-DOFP. Thus, Rachel never inherited any "Phoenix" traits. It was always the Jeanix hiding inside her.

I've got a comprehensive history of the 616 Phoenix around here somewhere...
 
 
fluid_state
13:37 / 24.08.05
the current Cosmic Cube seems to be the synthesis of the Beyonder and the Molecule Man. Or so it seems to me, based on this info on the Beyonders. Who are not to be confused with the Beyonder.
 
 
Aertho
13:42 / 24.08.05
Here it is. I posted this on Alvaro's a while ago to shut 'em up.

****
Like Bad Mojo has said, the Phoenix is a state of being. While for Jean Grey that's true, it's not the whole truth.

Please keep in mind that the universe, the ENTIRE universe, from quantum particles to psychic forces, are all parts of the SAME thing: the ENTIRE universe. Some old and famous dude once said that we are all stardust, and to one degree, we are. Everything you see in reality is made of molecules held together with energy.

Now, there's a human desire to always see the universe as separate things. Like that's a chair, this is a pen, I'm sitting at the computer, and I am a human being. But all of it is part of the universe. Even my thoughts about the universe are part of the ENTIRE universe. Human beings are the sentient, or thinking, "parts" of the universe "whole".

But what if that universe wasn't "healthy"?

The universe whole would need an immune system, similar to human being's immune systems, in order to set it right.

Now, the Marvel Universe has within its natural systems for evolution to produce sentient lifeforms that have psychic powers that bridge the gaps between other sentient individual's thoughts, as well as produce sentient lifeforms with telekinetic ability - the ability for thought to affect the physical elements of reality. That means that an individual granted with both those abilities could, potentially, have power to affect everything: things and the ideas of things.

These individuals could evolve to the point where their thoughts are indistinguishable from all others' thoughts, and everything else in the universe. As they can change everything with their thoughts, the ENTIRE universe is all just thought to them.

The "Phoenix" is one name of the universe's natural ability to evolve sentient lifeforms to the telepathic/telekinetic state mentioned above. These "Phoenix"-ed lifeforms serve as empowered immunity system "white blood cells". They exist to heal the broken parts of the universe. The Shi'Ar Empire studied the Phoenix evolution phenomenon as it occurred in its people. Feron, an ancient Earth magician, managed to reach Phoenix level ability - but, like most Earth people, saw it as something separate, an entity with its own "emotions". Another resident of Earth also managed to reach Phoenix level, a mutant named Jean Grey.

Jean pushed herself harder than ever before as she attempted to save her friends and lover. The stress triggered her Phoenix evolution. But, like Feron, saw the Phoenix power as a semi-religious experience. She personified the change she felt in herself and granted it a consciousness of its own - based on hers. Thus did Jean Grey create the Phoenix Force Entity (PFE) - a fragment of herself.

The PFE joined the X-Men, thinking it was the woman Jean Grey, when in fact it was a copy of Jean's mind and body. The PFE died, but its consciousness did not transcend unto the collection well for the ENTIRE universe's sentient individuals' conscious thought - the White Hot Room. As Jean Grey still lived at the bottom of Jamaica Bay, the consciousness of the PFE remained as a spirit near Earth. Until it collided with the time-lost thoughts of Rachel Summers.

The PFE, while part of Rachel, granted her psychic access to a Phoenix evolution through its own familiarity with it. The PFE learned many things about itself, and retroactively imagined its own history - thinking itself a separate entity than the universe it was part of, and served. An encounter with Galactus and the personification of Death scared the PFE, and set things right for a time. The PFE dissolved its own consciousness and Rachel's familairity with the Phoenix evolution slowly evaporated.

Meanwhile, Jean Grey finally grew confident in her telepathic/telekinetic powers, and maturity. She naturally, and easily evolved into her Phoenix evolution, and this time, acknowledged it as part of herself — or better yet, a higher, super-conscious part of herself.

She died, and then reemerged later to fight for, and then against the Sublime Beast - who sought to halt all evolution on Earth, and spread that resistance to growth throughout the universe. Jean Grey managed to destroy the Sublime consciousness that threatened the growth of the Universe, and transcended herself unto the White Hot Room.

While in the White Hot Room, and outside of the flow of space and time, Jean grew to understand her role as a magnificent part of the Universe, perfectly evolved to serve as an element of its immune system — and that meant healing the damage that had taken place. She reached into the past and changed Scott's decision to mourn her death into the decision to choose to love Emma Frost. Instead of allowing solitude and sadness to spread, Jean forced Scott to accept a new future and new responsibilities.

The ENTIRE universe includes our thought,s reasoning, and our ewmotions. Healing the universe means healing thoughts too. That was what Jean did. This subtle change was enough to alter the entire future. What is interesting is that as these sentient "Phoenixes" rise in experince, they also expand their self-sacrificing sense of compassion and understanding. If one sees the ENTIRE universe as their own thoughts, why not think good and nice things?
 
 
Lord Morgue
11:26 / 25.08.05
See? See? Jean Grey/Ragged Robin! The redhead writes the story!
 
 
doctorbeck
14:59 / 25.08.05
god that whole jean grey, multiple timelines, summers-kids merry mutant idiocy makes my eyes bleed, all grant did was make the pheonix saga even more bloated and full of symbols and portent than claremont and byrne had done.
 
 
Warewullf
17:06 / 25.08.05
Yeah but at least we get to see Claremont flounder around with Morrison's ideas and try to incorporate them into his, uh, less than stellar plots.

See a recent issue of X-men where Rachel and Psylocke visit the White-Hot Room...
 
 
doyoufeelloved
17:31 / 25.08.05
See a recent issue of X-men where Rachel and Psylocke visit the White-Hot Room...

Seriously? Ugh. Did the Room mind-control one of them into donning tight black leather dominatrix gear and force her to fight the other X-Men? If not, it's the first new story he's written in ten years and we should all throw a party.

(What'd they do there? I assume it's part of the whole HOUSE OF M / alternate-reality thing? A synopsis would be welcome so I don't have to hurt myself flipping through it at the store...)
 
 
Aertho
18:29 / 25.08.05
If not, it's the first new story he's written in ten years and we should all throw a party.

He is, and we should.

When Wanda released the Chaos Vagina, the resulting labia effect whited out the multiverse, shaking up and pissing off Roma and Cap Britian. Somehow, Psylocke and Rachel were drawn into the "Heart of the Phoenix" of the White Hot Room in order to avoid the Vagina Wave. Yes, it was a White void-like space, because neither Davis nor Claremont could be bothered to read NXM, editor's notes, or any fan's interpretations of what the White Hot Room actually is.

What's great about Claremont right now is his smart use of Psylocke, and her interactions with X-23 and Whiny Rachel. Obviously trying to emulate the snappy candor and realist wit of faux Brit Emma by faux Brit Grant, Claremont is using Betsy better than she's been handled in over a decade. Joyful, sarcastic, powerful, fearless, and full of surprise at being alive again... And though you may have guessed it, but it's an important fact: she doesn't wear a ninja-thong anymore.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:15 / 25.08.05
Did the Room mind-control one of them into donning tight black leather dominatrix gear and force her to fight the other X-Men?

To be fair, when last Rachel was mind-controlled into battling the other X-Men, which was a whole eight or so issues ago, she was not wearing dominatrix gear. She was encased in a completely body-covering black psychic latex sheath. See also Rachel being encased compeletely in amorphous demon flesh in Excalibur, Rachel being encased completely in Phoenix-dampening psychic latex, also in Excalibur, Rachel being sealed in a capture coccoon by Sentinels in.. oh, hang on. I've just come.
 
 
doyoufeelloved
20:43 / 25.08.05
oh, hang on. I've just come.

Yeah, I'm thinking Claremont goes through two or three keyboards a month, easy.

/threadrot

To make up for said threadrot: Somebody explain Moon Knight to me. There's schizophrenia or multiple-personality disorder or something happening there? He's a hitman? He's a cabbie? He's a space cabbie? (Scratch that last one. Not every universe can have a space cabbie!)
 
 
Aertho
20:53 / 25.08.05
See, Claremont likes using Rachel so much because she's a stupid Jean Grey.

I know Moon Knight warranted a whole prologue exposition in Universe X. I always saw Moon Knight as a D-List Superhero. Universe X never covered Ghost Rider, and he's got his own Mega-Morph.
 
 
Mr Tricks
22:14 / 25.08.05
There's an upcoming revamp series due out this fall. Marvel says he's Not their version of BATMAN. He serves an egyptian god and has several personalities/identies, and dresses in white so as not to seen at night... I guess
 
 
doctorbeck
07:14 / 26.08.05
so he's their version of hawkman?

might we look forward to moongirl in a low cut pair of spandex trousers sometime soon?
 
 
Lord Morgue
08:43 / 26.08.05
(throt) Old issue of "What The"- superhero fancy dress party- "That's not Whiteout, that's Moon Knight in drag."
(throff)
 
 
rabideyemovement
07:05 / 27.08.05
Okay, so I tracked down Skrull Kill Krew which was a lot of fun to read. I'm surprised I'd never heard of it, but then I stayed away from the Marvel Edge line of books... But in SKK, it's said that thousands of Skrulls were disguised plotting to take over the Earth. After SKK was cancelled, was there any resolution to the problem of Skrull spies everywhere?
 
 
thirty/thirty
06:47 / 29.08.05
Okay, so I tracked down Skrull Kill Krew which was a lot of fun to read. I'm surprised I'd never heard of it, but then I stayed away from the Marvel Edge line of books... But in SKK, it's said that thousands of Skrulls were disguised plotting to take over the Earth. After SKK was cancelled, was there any resolution to the problem of Skrull spies everywhere?

I don't know about all of that but in the year 2000, Grant Morrison had wide-eyed aspirations of becoming a Hollywood scriptwriter and actually penned a screenplay for a live-action version of SKK. He was quoted as saying:

"One of them (them refering to the numerous scripts he churned out that year, most likely) will no doubt have fans screaming with horror at the very thought but I've just completed a second draft treatment for S***** K*** K*** and it's going to be the coolest, hardest, funniest, most violently nihilistic film of our time!"

S***** K*** K*** obviously being code for Skrull Kill Krew. The movie was not meant to be and moviegoers was spared Grant's cool, hard, fuh-fuh-funny, violent nihilist masterpiece, alas.
 
 
Lord Morgue
10:12 / 29.08.05
Anyone seen Rick Jones lately? Last I heard, he and Marlo were hanging out with the new Captain Marvel.
And Machine Man- he had his origin in Jack Kirby's 2001 comics, didn't he? What's his connection to the Monolith?
 
 
rabideyemovement
12:09 / 29.08.05
Yeah, Rick Jones, who is a rock star by the way, was last seen in the final issues of Captain Marvel. I really wish they'd get him back on track. He's been so central to so many books since the beginning. It would be a shame to waste his potential.
Machine Man and the Monolith... Machine Man, originally Mister Machine sprang forth from 2001 comics, as the narrator I believe. It was explained that the Monolith had appeared to MM's creator, Abel Stack, and inspired him to create the X-51 robot (Monoliths purpose being to inspire humanity to evolve, and sometimes change into a space fetus). In later years, the Monolith returned to the Marvel U, this time to study X-51, who had merged with a Prime Sentinel. He merged with the Monolith accepting the Celestials invitation to follow them and hasn't been seen since, except for Earth X where he became the Watcher.
There's a mediocre new series out called Machine Teen, who seems to be a teenaged version of MM, possibly even his son, if you note that Machine Teen's last name is Aaronson.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:09 / 29.08.05
Rick Jones has recently featured in Brian K Vaughan's runaways, sponsoring a support group for young superheroes that has subsequently become a de facto superhero team, called Excelsior.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:10 / 29.08.05
Rick Jones recently showed up in Runaways (sort-of spoiler, the issue's been out for over a month now). I won't totally spoil it and say what he's doing there unless someone really wants to know.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:45 / 29.08.05
Now that's comedy...
 
  

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