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Marvel Mythology Surgery

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08:03 / 14.10.05

Oh, hey, here's one of the Great Mysteries- does anyone know the specifics of the editorial dispute (apparently over She-Hulk shaving her legs) that resulted in John Byrne leaving the title in a tizzy?

Our Lady Has Left the Building

20:35 / 14.10.05

The dead Aunt May turned out to be a fake or a clone or something, since at that point they'd just sorted out the whole Peter Parker/Ben Reilly/Chrissie Hynde clone saga mess they worked on the principle that they'd just fucked up the entire Spidey universe for a year they might as well bring her back.

21:23 / 14.10.05

Dead Aunt May = Actress surgically modified and trained to impersonate the truly not dead and unaware-of-Pete's-secret May the Ever-Living.

12:49 / 15.10.05

Aunt May certainly gets around, last I heard she was seeing Willie Lumpkin, the Fantastic Four's mailman.
And wasn't she dead?
She was holding hands with Jarvis the butler in the recent Spiderman, and MJ said that May and Jarvis have "grown close" or something like that.

rabideyemovement

14:40 / 15.10.05

Here's the low-down on the She-Hulk tizzy explained by Byrne himself.

http://www.she-hulk.us/byrne.html

Apparently he thought she was intelligent enough to have figured out the shaving issue long ago, but the real problem seems to stem from Bobby Chase editing him. Thor forbid that Byrne, a writer, be subject to an editor!

18:07 / 15.10.05

I always thought Chase edited some very fine books, and that this reflected well on her editorial abilities and habits, but... someone not-Byrne recently got really worked up in an interview, calling her horrible and all this, right? Add that to the Byrne thing, which is... When Jim Shooter talks about Byrne's despising editors and editorial regulation, I tend to believe Shooter's version. But, added together... in conjunction with the (also somewhat suspicious) Peter David 'Incredible Hulk' thing....
Here's some Marvel Mythology questions from a in-the-really-real-world side:

Marie Severin - other than pencils, coloring, and editorial, what else has she done in comics and why does nobody seem to love her art as much as I?

Bobby Chase - Good editor? Bad editor?

Jim Shooter - Who burned him in effigy, again?

And, on the in-story side:
Why are some people convinced 'Live Wires', the Adam Warren thing, is outside continuity (I bought, but have not finished reading it, but hell, spoilers be damned)?

The stories that fed the eighties' 'Nightcrawler' mini, otherwise known as one of the greatest comics of all time, had some sort of change(s) for Telly The Vanisher Porter. What were these? Also, someone please explain the princessy pun, for me, for I am dense and would like to know how dense in time to smack my forehead against a brick wall in disdain.

Did the janitor from the DeFalco 'Fantastic Four' who gained Lyja's laserfist while she was pregnant and visiting a hospital, ever go anywhere or amount to anything?

21:04 / 15.10.05

I thought that Daredevil while Chase was editing was fantastic.

23:31 / 15.10.05

To answer my own query, somewhere earlier in the thread, Spider-Woman was resurrected in Avengers #240, if the memory-wipe only working temporarily and not very well.
So, if anything, modern comics have developed superior amnesia-induction, as seen with 'Identity Crisis' and 'The Sentry'. Of course, Wolverine's mindfuck fading away does not a good testament to this modern memory manipulation make.
Also, she had the crap hair she died with, and not her ghost's and her current living form's much nicer style. It was the eighties, though, so there was a lot of that going 'round.

23:49 / 15.10.05

Telly The Vanisher Porter
Telly [The Vanisher] Porter
Telly Porter
Teleporter

See?

03:09 / 16.10.05

For a second, I thought I saw, but if I did, it, er, vanished. Yes. One might even say that it disappeared and reappeared elsewhere, almost like teleportation.
Now that one pun's down, any help with the 'Nightcrawler' princess' name? I'm assuming, with that mini's many, many puns, L'un D'un Toon, How Much is That Bogey in the Window, and frumious bandersnitch and all... the princess's name (from memory: Jinjavee) has to have some unsubtle homonymic sensibility to it, that I am simply failing to pick up on.
Also, did any of the Skrull Kill Krew appear outside their series, proper?
Also, also: Has anything ever come up in one of the Official Handbook to the... so-on-and-so-on... first, and only later been worked into an actual comic story? I know there's stuff in those handbooks that Mark Gruenwald just made up to try and make sense out of not-contiguous-continuity, and I imagine somebody found it easier to check the Handbooks, than go hunting for the actual, possibly random and unpredictable, books.

03:53 / 16.10.05

Well, John Byrne, writing Avengers West Coast, in one issue had Tony Stark mention that his new suit could lift eighty tons, obviously from the last bound edition of the Marvel Handbook, which had just come out. The figure is somewhat arbitrary, and generally stays more or less the same for each new suit, while the OLDER suits are retconned to be weaker.
And Byrne doesn't seeem to comprehend the distinction between LIFTING 80 tons and FLYING with 80 tons.
Marie Severin has done some great humor stories, like Fred Hembeck's What The..? Nick Fury retirement story, and the dream sequence at the start of an issue of Iron Man that Tony unmasked and wearing the armor, piss drunk in a bar and waving a broken bottle, informing the clientelle he'd "take on anyone", which alone has earned her immortality.
Jim Shooter... how many companies has he been kicked out of/ had crumble under him? Several of which he founded, as I recall. What famous piece of editorial evil was he behind again? Was it he who ixnayed Northstar's gaiety? I have heard him described as an acromegalic rebublican. Maybe it was me.

12:23 / 16.10.05

"Why are some people convinced 'Live Wires', the Adam Warren thing, is outside continuity (I bought, but have not finished reading it, but hell, spoilers be damned)?"

Possibly because Wolverine isn't in it.

I don't know how far you've gotten, but the only major continuity bit in the entire story is the identity of the "White Whale". Now, I've spoken with a friend of mine who is very familiar with the relevant organization, and while we can't say for certain that it fits in continuity, it's at least plausible.

16:25 / 16.10.05

Do spoil us... I'm curious now and I'll probably never read Livewires anyway.

19:49 / 16.10.05

OK...the "White Whale" is based on "one of five known wrecked SHIELD helicarriers". While the exact number of wrecked carriers is hard to place, enough have been lost to make it a reasonable statement.

Nothing else really impacts continuity, one way or another.

13:17 / 17.10.05

Oh, here's one. Remember Satana, daughter of Satan, who used to kill badguys before they could reform, so they would go and swell Satan's army? Kind of doing the same job as the Punisher, but for different reasons? And she'd turn their souls into little butterflies and eat them? No? Well, anyway, a while back, when Marvel was struggling, more so than usual, they started publishing any old thing they had in the archives unreleased, unfinished, whatever, so they wouldn't have to pay a new writer, and among these was a controversial script for a Satana limited series that got ixnayed, and the writer left in a huff without finishing it, so they got a new writer to finish it.
So, what was the huff over, and who were the writers, and did it end up being published?

A

14:48 / 17.10.05

There's some vague gnawing feeling in the back of my brain that the fucked-over writer was Warren Ellis. Maybe.

18:59 / 17.10.05

It was Ellis.
The script became, with some modifications and extractions, 'Strange Kiss'.
There was an announcement that it'd been finished by someone else, and would see release, but I never actually saw the book anywhere, so....

21:19 / 17.10.05

There was a report that John Ostrander was going to do the series, but it never happened. Her last appearance was in the WITCHES miniseries, with a completely different personality.

11:41 / 18.10.05

Has The Vision got a willy?

(inspired by Gumbitch's post in the crap costumes thread, but didn't want to rot proceedings over there).

A

15:22 / 18.10.05

I'd say that if the Scarlet Witch has such powerful reality-altering powers that she can pretty much remake the universe however she sees fit, then, yes, even if the Vision didn't have one to begin with, he does now.

A

15:24 / 18.10.05

....i didnt really just post about superhero genitalia on the internet, did I?

A

15:25 / 18.10.05

...oh, christ, I did. Kill me.

15:41 / 18.10.05

Superrobothero genitalia.

16:13 / 18.10.05

I have a very vague notion of this being brought up in the comic somewhere - maybe when the babies that weren't there were born. But I doubt it, being Marvel and all...

16:16 / 18.10.05

not a robot, a "synthizoid."

16:41 / 18.10.05

Just like the original Human Torch. He had a cock.

19:56 / 18.10.05

Marie Severin - other than pencils, coloring, and editorial, what else has she done in comics and why does nobody seem to love her art as much as I?

I love her stuff too. When I was collecting musty Hulk back issues in the late 1970s, she was my second fave next to Herb Trimpe. And her brother John is an awesome artist: he was also an amazing inker.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

08:33 / 19.10.05

Wasn't Bobby Chase editing The Incredible Hulk when Peter David did the story about one of the Hulk's friends popping up for an issue, declaring himself to be HIV + then disappearing for two years, then coming back and promptly dying of AIDS. Someone wrote in to complain about how the character had been ignored just to come back and die and the editor, if it was Chase, defended it on the grounds that the comic was about the Hulk, not his friends (amusing that this came out right after the couple of issues that centred on Rick Jones wedding, the five or six issues with a Hulk-free back-up strip, the whole Marlo in a coma story that ran for most of a year...) which was a shame as she also wrote the response to the homophobic prat who wanted the Hulk to smash gays which was little short of 'go fuck yourself'.

A

14:30 / 19.10.05

Just like the original Human Torch. He had a cock.

...he also had Great Balls Of Fire...

...and was fond of inviting the ladies to "go down in flames"....

Thank you, folks. I'm here all night.

15:33 / 20.10.05

Real-life Captain America? (well, in the sense that here's a guy frozen in ice from WWII, except, y'know, not being a Super-Solider and all, he's kinda dead)

22:44 / 25.10.05

How come Dr Strange is a ghost now? Is that what he is? I was flipping through something and he was all transparent.

22:54 / 25.10.05

Dr. Strange has been sending out his "Astral form" as a sort of mental projection/ghost and leaving his body behind since his very first appearance. This allows him access to all sorts of planes of reality while his body usually sitts in a lotus pose in his meditation chamber.

08:33 / 26.10.05

And why does nobody seem to love her [Marie Severin] art as much as I?

Um, maybe on account of her art kinda being poop-flavoured.

Look...

10:31 / 26.10.05

Can anyone tell me what is up with the Time Variance Authority. They recently appeared in the new She-Hulk, and were in 4 a couple months back. Are they basically the Linear Men of the Marvel Universe? And what is up with Mr. Fractal or whatever, the guys with a million of them behind them (worst phrasing ever).

Also, in a recent ish of She-Hulk (and again in the latest 4, and in the first issue of Waid's Fantastic Four), Marvel Comics exist in Marvel Comics. That is to say, the company of Marvel exists within the Marvel Universe. How does this work, and how long has this been going on? And I am not talking about Doom coming to our universe to steal comics from Stan and Jack.

I get the impression that the Fantastic Four license their image to Marvel, but what about the Avengers, or Hulk? How do they get the rights? How does it all work? And is the most popular genre pirate comics?

10:44 / 26.10.05

Also see this months Marvel Knights Fantastic Four, which has the writer, Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa, getting involved in the Fantastic Four's fight against the Impossible Man. In Slott's She-Hulk the comic-code's seal makes the comics federal documents admissable in law.
As far as I can see it only occurs in the more light hearted MU books and has done since really early on (Stan & Jack got refused entry to Reed & Sue's wedding), but Marvel is exactly the same as it is in the universe, but instead of being fiction, the stories it publishes are licensed, fictionalised, versions of what has happened in the 616 reality, presumably without details of the heroes secret identities. It's probably best not to think too deeply about this.

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