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Marvel Mythology Surgery

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rabideyemovement

14:35 / 05.09.05

Hmmm... I thought that was Selene, not Negasonic Teenage Warthog. And I was joyous that someone actually drew her to look like a vampire for once instead of Barbera Carrera in bondage. Damn. So if it is Negasauna Teenage Ninja Turtle (who very clearly died), might Emma be hallucinating this Hellfire Club?
Sidenote, isn't Sebastian Shaw supposed to be hooked up with Madelyne Pryor these days?

06:22 / 06.09.05

Ah, but you see, that's what makes Teenage Nega...whatever such a tricky one. Her mutant talent may have been the ability to be a walking corpse (apart from the obvious clairvoyance). She did look kinda dead before she got officially dead, as I remember. But then I thought why didn't Jean pick up that the girl was alive and just pretending so that Emma could weasel her way into the X-Men. Oh, but Emma's a telepath too and she blocked the girl's thoughts and made her "look" dead to Jean.

Oh and the hooded figure is Jean for the simple fact that if it was anyone other than Jean they would have been able to atleast show the person's face. Why would they need to hide Selene, Sage or Maddie Pryor under a maroon tarp?

And this so isn't a new Hellfire Club...as far as the Marvel continuity is concerned both Cassandra and Warhead are not evil profiteers like Seb. If this is classic, issue 116 Nova then she would have had her hand through Shaws head halfway through his monologue. She doesn't get on well with mutants remember.

Withiel: DALI'S ROTTWEILER

11:10 / 06.09.05

Oh, but Emma's a telepath too and she blocked the girl's thoughts and made her "look" dead to Jean.
Not in diamond form, she isn't. Or at least she says she isn't, and her reaction to Martha in John Sublime's office would seem to suggest that she's telling the truth.
Also, Cassie Nova, currently inhabiting the body of the alien shapeshifter Stuff, can look like whatever she wants as soon as she works out how to do so. Which would be an interesting plotline in and of itself...

On the questions front, could someone explain the backstory ofDeadpool, specifically the whole Fleshwerks business?

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:24 / 06.09.05

I like the way Buster knows what Whedon's doing is shit purely on the basis of his own speculation. It's one of the things that makes him so special.

16:46 / 06.09.05

Well, yeah, what is the 'shit retcon'?

Negasonic lives?

07:00 / 07.09.05

All I know about Fleshwerks is that it's a department of interdimensional/intergalactic holding
firm/insurance company - LANDAU, LUCKMAN, LAKE, & LeQUARE and that Zoe Culloden has been employed by them to groom Deadpool...with a brush and a little silver mirror.

With Cassandra being stuck in a shape-shifters body does that mean she doesn't have those "way-cool" god powers of hers anymore. Does she still have acccess to the full-spectrum of the mutant genome?

Does any one know what an External is exactly? I remember that during the early 90's that some mutants were labelled Externals...these included Selene, Cannonball and Gideon, but what does it all mean? What makes an external different from an Omega?

09:14 / 07.09.05

Externals are immortal. "Death is the beginning" for them. They die, then come back to life and then live forever.

10:59 / 07.09.05

Unless you "Sever the Five Branches" ie, cut of their heads, arms and legs. Like a cross between Highlander and the Evil Dead. Only crap.

11:40 / 07.09.05

I always thought that was a sillier bit of X-lore.

"You've chopped off my head, my arms, and one leg, but I'm still immortal unless you get my left foot, too."

14:18 / 07.09.05

Also, at one point they decided to change their minds and say that Cannonball's not an External after all. I'm not sure exactly when that happened, but I think it was in the 40s of X-FORCE.

14:41 / 07.09.05

Yes, despite Cable knowing that Cannoball lived well in the future and having watched him die and come back to life.

I'd like to know how they explained that away, as well...

rabideyemovement

20:30 / 07.09.05

They didn't, but Marvel isn't one to completely discount continuity, so I'm assuming he still is immortal. Cable knew Sam Guthrie to be an immortal Highlande-- i mean, High Lord that was trained by Xavier and lived into the 24th century. He saw him resurrected. Apocalypse, the ruling High Lord of Cable's time (there can be only one, apparently) went back in time to recruit the young Cannonball to his cause. There surely is no doubt. But I'm guessing Marvel wanted to chill the story so that it could later be placed in the hands of more competent writers (though one website claims it was a lawsuit by the Highlander trademark that stopped the plot). Someday we'll see it resolved, but since he's immortal, I suppose they have plenty of time to dawdle. So other than Cannonball and Selene (and Apoc, who we all know will resurface some day)are all the other Externals really dead? And are there others that we never met?

05:40 / 08.09.05

The official list of all Externals ever includes Absalom (the prickly one), Burke, Crule, Gideon (the one with the green dominatrix ponytail), Saul, Apocalypse, Candra, and Selene. Oh and don't forget the ever-lovable Nicodemus. And Cannonball isn't one any more, eventhough he got gutted by Sauron and died and got back up again. If anyone else claims they're an external, you just tell them they're a liar.

I'm just wondering how they got away with the whole chopping off of the "five branches" in a comic. Did they ever show a headless, limbless corpse wiggling around...spurting blood from the neck stump and making desturbing gurgling sounds? Just wondering.

rabideyemovement

06:57 / 08.09.05

No they'd have never showed headless limbless villains in a Marvel book back in those days. Severing the five branches wasn't the only way to kill them. Selene drained them all of their quickening. And Nicodemus and Burke died from the Legacy Virus. Are the Externals related in any way to the Twelve (the original concept, not the final one)?

10:05 / 08.09.05

And Cannonball being up and around one issue after being gutted like a trout by Feral was supposed to be an Externals thing, too. Trademark of the Rob Leifeld era- get a big idea, then get distracted by a passing butterfly and go chasing after it. Let the guy writing the dialogue pick up the pieces.

12:02 / 08.09.05

flipping through a good directory of all things x-men on the net (which I think was linked to earlier, whoever but up the summer's family tree I think) and the entry for Cable says that the original plan was that he was a grown up version of Cannonball, and only later did they decide to chuck him into the Summer's clan.

12:07 / 08.09.05

found the site: uncanny x-men

rabideyemovement

14:01 / 08.09.05

The more I read about it, the more it becomes apparent that Marvel feared lawsuit by the Highlander trademark for the similarites between the plots. But in searching I found this great example of Liefeld's plagiarism in his art as well.

Funny that they left out the greatest ripoff of all... the Deadpool/Deathstroke comparison. Wade Wilson? Slade Wilson? Even their costumes and swords were very similar.
And later, under Image, came Agent America/Fighting American, looking strikingly similar to the Captain of the same nation. Check the comparisons here--- http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/a/agentame.htm
He even had a bucky-look-alike sidekick and his nemesis Cyber Skull had a steel skull, whose face, if it were to rust, would leave him looking exactly like one Herr Schmidt.

rabideyemovement

14:05 / 08.09.05

crap. I didn't know the picture was that big.

01:54 / 09.09.05

I love that picture.

I have a question I hope somebody can answer.

Somebody PLEASE explain the science behind the Micronauts. I don't understand how being subatomic translates to being tiny in the general world.

I love the Micronauts, by the way. Even the underrated New Voyages (which were almost better).

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

02:21 / 09.09.05

And later, under Image, came Agent America/Fighting American, looking strikingly similar to the Captain of the same nation.

That's because that series was Liefeld repackaging the Captain America stuff he'd done for Marvel before getting fired off of the "Image re-boots" of the Marvel comics Avengers, Fantastic Four, Captain America and Iron Man

10:24 / 09.09.05

"Ahab" from Future Past was supposed to be a future Cable, until Alan Davis thankfully retconned him into a seperate character.
Yeah, like Cable would downgrade to a fucking peg leg.

11:28 / 09.09.05

"Somebody PLEASE explain the science behind the Micronauts. I don't understand how being subatomic translates to being tiny in the general world"

Well, in the Marvel Universe, if you shrink past a certain size (via Pym particles/whatever) you undergo a quantum shift that deposits you into the "Microverse".

However, when Rann & Co. reversed the procedure, the specific method they used (flying through the Spacewall) did not return them to full size.

12:46 / 09.09.05

ahh, the Liefeld swipes...brings a tear of joy to my eye

rabideyemovement

15:06 / 09.09.05

Yes! Micronauts was one of the first comics I owned. Haven't seen much on the Microverse lately, but I recall that Rick Jones spent the latter half of the latest Captain Marvel series trapped in the Microverse.

Ahab=Cable ... that would be supra-lame. So who is Ahab supposed to be now? Didn't an issue of Excalibur imply it could be Pete Wisdom?

15:12 / 09.09.05

They finally decided Ahab was/will be/might be Rory Calhoun, an Excalibur supporting character.

15:13 / 09.09.05

They made up some dude named Rory Campbell, a doc who worked with Moira on Muir. Then something happened, and his leg got cut off, and he got forgot until Apocalypse decided to make him Famine for the Twelve Party. Then Mikhail waste of paper Rasputing teleported himself, Ahab, Caliban, and Deathbird to parts unknown.

Next q: Where'd all four of them end up?

07:14 / 10.09.05

Rory Calhoun? Wasn't he the one who could stand on his hind legs? Well, obviously not after one got lopped off.

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

13:18 / 10.09.05

"Ahab" from Future Past was supposed to be a future Cable, until Alan Davis thankfully retconned him into a seperate character.

What I never understood, even from the 1st time they bring up the Ahab/Cable thing is that their cybernetics didn't even match up. One had a freaking cyber-peg-leg (and how useless is that... that's like giving the 6 million dollar man a cyber-crutch instead of a new leg) and they were missing different eyes.

07:23 / 12.09.05

Ahab's leg got lobbed off while trying to fix the electrified fench surrounding the Moira's Research Facility. I smell pork.

Okay, my turn:

What does H.E.R.B.I.E. stand for, exactly? I know this question shouldn't even be dignified with a response but come on...just for the record let's settle this once and for all.

In New X-men 115 or something, Morrisson had Cyclops walking around with "emergency contact lenses" resting on his finger tips, right? How, in the world, would Scott ever be able to put those things in? Would he not leave a big hole in the ceiling every time? Oh and also, those lense would never cover his whole eye-ball...wouldn't some of the optic blast spillage spurt out from the sides?

Is it true that Emma Frost was based on UK Avengers character, Emma Peel? Why? They have nothing in common? Purdy on the other hand went on to be immortalized as Patsy on Ab fab (Joanna Lumley was obviously Grant Morrisson's inspiration for Emma Frost).

How, if Rogue is invulnerable, is it possible for her to cut her hair (or bleech it for that matter)?

When did Psyclock and Phoenix switch powers and why have I ever heard of this?

09:41 / 12.09.05

Whaaaa gaargh... but in Alan Davis' Excalibur, we saw Ahab-to-be being pushed into some big cogs by Rachael. I forget the scientist's name, but is he the same guy as now?

11:34 / 12.09.05

HERBIE = "Humanoid Experimental Robot B-Type Integrated Electronics ", unfortunately. He has his own page on the Unofficial Marvel Appendix.

Emma Frost is sort of a long story. The original appearance of the Hellfire Club was inspired by an episode of the Avengers called "A Touch of Brimstone". Parallels can be drawn between many of the cast members:

Mastermind: Real Name Jason Wyngarde. Named after (and visually based on) Peter Wyngarde, who played a character named Jason King on another series.

Emma Frost: Named after Emma Peel, although Peel's specific "Queen of Sin" look was given to Jean instead.

The rest of the Inner Circle were based on actors, but not from the episode. Donald Pierce was Donald Sutherland (who played Hawkeye Pierce in MASH). Harry Leland was Orson Welles (Harry from Harry Lime, his Third Man character, and Leland from a Citizen Kane character). And Sebastian Shaw was Robert Shaw.

15:05 / 12.09.05

Warren Ellis' British Hellfire Club had more direct 'Avengers' swipes, complete with Peels and Steeds, as I recall, because it amused... sort of like when he turned that Stormwatch feller into Avery Brooks from DS9.

And, off of the 'Excalibur' thought... When did the Warpies buy it, exactly? And W*H*O becoming The Department and all.

How badly will these things and Pete Wisdom be handled by Claremont in a couple months?

16:35 / 12.09.05

Yes, he had his version of the Black Queen named "Emma Steed".

There's some confusion about the Warpie situation, as I recall. But I _think_ Black Air killed some, and Mastermind kidnapped/brainwashed the rest.

Of course, with Claremont back in control, I expect them to show up again.

05:52 / 13.09.05

Ahab" from Future Past was supposed to be a future Cable, until Alan Davis thankfully retconned him into a seperate character.

Funny story that, it seems Cable was indeed destined to step into Ahab's pegleg one day but alas it was not meant to be. You see, over in X-Factor they were getting rid of Cyclops' troublesome Nuisance baby by sending it into the future to have it die of neglect in a world without child services. Then editor, Bob Harras saw this unfolding and thought out loud to himself that he had suddenly had a really smart idea. He decided then and there that adult Cable, who was still busy fighting his clone Stryfe (who was destined to have been revealed, in the not-to-distant future, to be a laydee under all that armor), would be the future-self version of Nuisance baby. Rob Liefield sighed loudly when he found out what they were doing with his beloved "character". Later he was overheard telling random Hooters patrons how he had soooo much planned for Cable and that all that had been taken away from him.

Humanoid Experimental whatever, you say...well I never.

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