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Final Crisis

 
  

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Colonel Kadmon
22:47 / 19.10.08
Oh dear. It'll be back to a career in covers for Jones, then. Although, this always happens to Criseses, doesn't it? You'd think they'd plan ahead, especially for something so major, eh?

Of course, it could be due to a massively late script from Mozzer. Jones has never been the fastest. Having said that, the rumours have been muttering about this happening since the first issue came out. At least it isn't Igor Kordey.

One has to wonder, though, did Jones just shit himself? It's about the highest profile gig an artist could get. Tony Daniel at least had the relief of low expectations, meaning he could only impress on RIP. But for FC, expectations were sky-high.

Is the next issue out this week? What about Submit?
 
 
Mario
23:49 / 19.10.08
Both FC #4 and Submit are on the shipping list for this week.
 
 
Mark Parsons
16:09 / 22.10.08
Looking FWD to a double FC week after a longish drought. Let's hope it all stays on course through January. I'm loving the main book and the LEGION spin off too.

Sad to see JGJ go. This must have been one hell of a hard job. Still, Pacheco and Mahnke are great co-artists, IMO.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
18:38 / 22.10.08
Fourth issue's actually pretty good, I have to say. I wasn't that keen on SUBMIT's artwork, but Morrison made me care about Black Lightning of all characters, so that's something. The fourth issue feels more like a big epic story, there's action, and he made fun use of the Ray, who still feels very Nineties in his choice of costume but still looks cool.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
01:23 / 23.10.08
The last page will really make you sad about JG's departure. It's just god damned perfect.
 
 
PatrickMM
16:31 / 23.10.08
I wrote up both issues here. Submit is okay, mainly interesting as an example of one of the many similar stories happening in the DCU. Issue #4 is great, a lot more emotionally urgent than the fractured first three issues. The outbreak of anti-life provides a strong narrative link for all the different characters, and makes it feel like one story being told through a whole bunch of characters rather than a bunch of different stories.

Part of that comes from the fact that the big three are all out of commission, so we're back to the street level superheroics of Seven Soldiers. My favorite moments in the issue were the Tattooed Man revealing the Metron tattoo, as well as the similar tattoos on the Super Young Team during Miracleman's brief appearance. And, Turpin's transformation at the end of the issue, which was unnerving and perfectly rendered by JGJ.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
16:44 / 23.10.08
Me too!

Pretty much the same. Submit was heavily disappointing.
 
 
Aertho
21:29 / 23.10.08
How did Black Lightning get the Circuit Pattern?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
22:05 / 23.10.08
Went to a circuit party.

I suspect that particular loose end will be revealed later -- the good Gods haven't really made themselves known yet, and it's a bit early for Metron's hand to be tipped.
 
 
This Sunday
06:42 / 24.10.08
Haven't read Submit, but picked up the new iss of the series proper.

It actually read a lot more hopeful to me than the previous three. Maybe it's a reflex to be hopeful in the face of worse stuff that's all me, but I honestly didn't get that squirmy-stomach thing from this one, that the previous hit me with at least once per issue.

It seemed more the horrors of mundanity and helplessness, this time, and those just aren't things that hurt me the way other horrors do.

Morrison really writes a good Green Arrow, doesn't he? I have a soft spot for Ollie, but he's been really great in this series. Anti-Anti-Life Arrow. He should hang with Super Young Team when this is over. Get Tom Peyer or Morrison to pen it. I'd buy that each month.
 
 
Spaniel
09:30 / 24.10.08
It's the dynamic between Black Canary and Green Arrow this ish that does it for me. It's just lovely, lovely stuff. It was the backbone of the book and the hook that got me thoroughly emotionally involved.

Final Crisis 4 is the tits.

GM on GA & BC is my new (acronymisitic) fantasy title.
 
 
The Natural Way
09:40 / 24.10.08
I know, I just love Green Arrow. I want to read that book too.

As for the circuit stuff - read Submit.

Or don't. I think the artist fucked up the bit with the handover ('It's on my glove!' - uh, WHERE?!?), and it was crap anyway.

FC 4 very definitely wasn't crap, however. Tho' I do agree with Patrick in that I'd like to've seen more ACTUALLY GOOD crossover or one-shot books detailing Darkseid's Earth. It could be so scary, weird and fucked up - pure Morrison. Bit of a missed opportunity really.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
13:36 / 24.10.08
Is 'Resist' also El Mozzerino?

FC#4 was very very good. The whole series has a very strong Zenith Phase III/IV vibe indeed.

'Submit' was worst GM comic ever. Really bad, unengaging, cliched...bah!
 
 
Essential Dazzler
14:19 / 24.10.08
Resist is Rucka.
 
 
Aertho
15:06 / 24.10.08
Yeah I read Submit. It was a nice departure from the constant superHEROES versus superCRIMINALS dichotomy in the DCU. Nice to see a family with a different set of ethics, although I don't think the son's learned distrust of Heroes was conveyed effectively enough. The scene where he misinterprets the exchange between T-Man and BL was lost a lot in the art. I had to reread a few times to realize Leon hadn't just flipped out, gun in hand.

I'm referring to how BL got the circuit in the first place. I know the pattern's appearing throughout the DCU, but it's not been seen that the Superheroes realize its significance at all. Papers mentioning that the New Gods have yet to appear is good enough for now.

Also, Mister Miracle in the Castle. BANG. That was Most Excellent Super Bat. I think.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
15:50 / 24.10.08
Papers mentioning that the New Gods have yet to appear is good enough for now.

Actually, based on rereading some the earlier issues last night, I would posit three theories for how they came across the circuit pattern:

1. Kamandi, having apparent fallen backward through time, brought it with him from Anthro on the return trip. Possibly doing so by seeding it in various locations over time, which leads to #2....

2. The circuit pattern has shown up everywhere, as we see Cave Carson uncovering it in some underground caverns while the pattern also shows up in crop circles. Conceivably some super-genius may have put it together that the pattern was a possible solution to the problem.

3. Metron did something to Black Lightning behind the scenes.

I'm edging in the direction of #1 & #2 combined (though Kamandi wouldn't give it directly to BL), simply because I tend to see parallels between Morrison's work and Doctor Who stories so I wouldn't be surprised if Kamandi was playing Rose Tyler and seeding the pattern across time like, oh, Bad Wolf.
 
 
huckleberry glove soup
19:31 / 24.10.08
I'm not sure Kamandi has fallen backwards through time (though he may have considering his appearance in #1 and what we know of the decaying nature of spacetime). Maybe this is just the birth of this timelines version of K-mon's story. Maybe this current DCU time period IS the birth of Kamandi's future? Morticoccus, human animal hybrids, all things that led to his timeline's emergence are happening now.

Food for thought.

One ultra-minor nitpicky complaint:

Does anyone see GA actually destroy the teleporter's navigation array?

It may have just been lost in the translation from script to art but Ollie's sacrifice kinda rings (visually) completely hollow. Sure, Black Lightning says they can't follow them so it could have taken place off panel, just seemed odd he isn't shown accomplishing the very thing he stayed behind to do. He goes from shock to shootmyarrows. Kind of clumsy execution there.

I thought the Dark Gods bits and the Barry/Iris page were the highlights... Poor Danny Boy...

Submit wasn't horrible. I get what it was trying to accomplish (that street level everyman perspective) and it did so well, but not really something I found to be worth $4 and however many pages of story to tell. I agree that it seemd like a missed opportunity compared to what they could have done with the book.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
18:42 / 25.10.08
I thought the Dark Gods bits and the Barry/Iris page were the highlights... Poor Danny Boy...

I actually thought Green Arrow's presence in general was the highlight for me. He's the perfect character to face off against the mindless fascism of Apokolips, it gave him the opportunity to speechify, and it worked nicely to counterpoint his concerns about the superhero draft from the last issue. As well, yeah, his sacrifice for Canary's benefit was great, her kissing the teleport booth's glass as she fades soundlessly (a nice image for Canary with her sonic powers) away.

Does anyone else think it would be great for the West siblings to meet the Legion when they're a bit older? Whichever Legion is in favour when they've gained a couple years, there's no reason not to take advantage of having more young speed demons in the DCU following Bart's obnoxious aging/death...the offhanded approach the twins reminded me that they do have potential even if it was mishandled in The Flash.
 
 
Spaniel
21:14 / 25.10.08
I thought there were lots of highlights!
 
 
BrianFitzgerald
01:54 / 26.10.08
Also, Mister Miracle in the Castle. BANG. That was Most Excellent Super Bat. I think.

Thank you, Aertho! I completely missed that on first reading, but you're clearly correct, sir.
 
 
huckleberry glove soup
15:36 / 26.10.08
I dunno guys, unless he shaved his head, changed clothes and bulked up I'd say it's a poorly colored Norman.

Plus, Godfrey says Freedom's spirit has fallen after the shot... Shilo is the avatr of freedom.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
17:59 / 26.10.08
Gods of Apokolips are most Excellently super-dumb, though. I mean, they've already shot Shilo Norman and he came back from the dead. This is his whole schtick. This is what Metron was preparing him for. Getting shot by the good guys by accident surely going to fall away like so many leaves after a plot-twister.
 
 
Spaniel
18:04 / 26.10.08
What he said
 
 
huckleberry glove soup
18:33 / 26.10.08
3rded for Ultra-Truth.
 
 
Janean Patience
18:35 / 26.10.08
I don't want to be the Negative Man of the thread, and I'm aware I'm much less keen on GM's recent work than almost everyone else here, so if it's just me I'll probably keep quiet about it.

But is anyone else finding Final Crisis to be completely ordinary? Not awful, not even disappointing, just a cosmos-rocking event that isn't rocking the cosmos? A crisis-by-numbers?
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
18:54 / 26.10.08
I'm enjoying it, still confusing at times but has definitely had a few moments where it invoked feelings of impending doom.

but "final" or "crisis" it itsn't. we're on issue 4 and it's had jack to do with the monitors, really. it's just Darkseid invading Earth.

it in no way has felt any more grand-scale than anything else GM has done in the DCU. in fact, the Sheeda and Mageddon both felt bigger and badder, and more far-reaching. and Final? why the fuck is anything happening here going to keep the DC staff from wanting another big event in two years?

it does feel like there's been hints that GM has been given license to change the status quo regarding a few major heroes, and I think that's going to be the only big deal. one of the New Gods mentions Earth becoming "the 5th World". Batman's going to RIP and be transformed into Super Batman or maybe get replaced. maybe, like ASS, this will be a little step towards the future DCU we see in DC 1 Million.
 
 
This Sunday
19:08 / 26.10.08
A crisis-by-numbers?

Yes and no.

You could definitely make a checklist of recurrent elements, but it is a follow-up, after all.

If FC were only a by-the-numbers operation, though, I think you'd see less of the fan-panic about things not happening the way they should in a Crisis. You've got your multiversal concerns, Monitors, a Flash, and some red skies, yes. But otherwise?

Massive groupings and broad vistas have been replaced by individuals, individual missions, individual horrors. It's not about how the DCU responds to Turpin's corruption into Darkseid, but Turpin's response. It isn't how the DCU experiences Barry Youknowwho's return, but how his friends and family, his cast, handle it. Supergirl's apartment and cat are given the sort of emphasis a traditional one of these marketing deals would have given to a giant room full of heroes with some cute gag going on in one corner.

J'onn inspires the big Crisis-standard gatherings, both in terms of the draft and his funeral, but J'onn doesn't have much of a nonsuperhero family anymore. He is superheroes, his relationships and interactions with other superheroes.

The story hasn't spiraled into mad crossover mode dragging every title along with the narrative or, worse, in a holding pattern until it's over with.

Unlike previous Crises, hitting something is not really going to help here.

The narrative structure, while not breaking any new ground overall, is unusual for these types of stories. That the thing was kept relatively quiet and revelations were given us beat by beat to add up rather than all at once is stupidly rare for a big Summer sell-books experience.

The most glaringly by the numbers bit so far, is Morrison's get-to-know-your-redshirt tic. I ride a dog and I love you actiony hero types Diana. Oh, shit. Now I am dead.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
19:30 / 26.10.08
I ride a dog and I love you actiony hero types Diana. Oh, shit. Now I am dead.

I want this on a T-shirt, with super-dalmation steed logo.
 
 
Spaniel
20:11 / 26.10.08
In what way was FC 4 confusing?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
00:19 / 27.10.08
The only part that confused me at first was that Count Vertigo looks quite a lot like Alan Scott, at least when he's face down in rubble (matron), so it seemed at first as if the assault on Bludhaven that was being proposed over the Unternet had already happened, or was being flashed forward to.

This is a bit more like it, definitely. I mean, the whole thing is a remix of every other Morrison apocalypse, but it moved at a decent pace, there was some nice characterisation, very nice Green Arrow stuff, and everything felt usefully significant and important after a lot of messy noodling in the first 3 issues. Maybe all these books should be hilariously late...

Incidentally, what happened to the Green Lanterns? I know Opto is Kalibak's chew toy in this episode, but John Stewart and Hal Jordan seem to be missing. Are they off on the Sinestro Corps stuff?
 
 
Mario
00:23 / 27.10.08
John Stewart was critically injured in issue #1, and Hal was framed for it, and taken away to Oa by the Alpha Lanterns (one of whom is probably possessed by Granny Goodness)
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
00:46 / 27.10.08
Yeah, but there's been an entire war since then, hasn't there? Or did the Sinestro Corps War happen before the beginning of Final Crisis? The Granny Goodness dangling thread is a bit of a niggle, because, even thought the Guardians are famously shit, one or more of the available Lanterns - Kyle Rayner, say - should be sufficiently clued up to put the pieces together. Unless the Lantern quarantine of Earth is totally opaque, I suppose.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
01:04 / 27.10.08
I'm betting something's influencing the Guardians -- possibly Granny -- to keep Kyle and Guy, who are both Honour Guard Lanterns, out of the loop.

Sinestro War was prior to Final Crisis by a few months, I believe, but part of the problem with these crossovers is that they're so nebulous about timing and such that it's hard to keep tabs on everyone.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:14 / 27.10.08
I'm mildly enjoying this, especially as I'm downloading rather than paying for them. I'll delete them when I'm finished, I think if I was foolish enough to be paying for the things I'd be pissed off at wasting my money. But as many people has been said before, no matter what Grant says this is just a standard 'superheroes almost lose everything then win against overwhelming odds'.

So let me get this straight, when Darkseid defeated the New Gods his body died in the process and because he'd used up his regenerations he jumped from human body to human body to survive but his force was too strong and burned out these bodies after a while? The last of these bodies was a black dude, during which time he called himself Boss Dark Side because of the influence of the evil inside of him, which then jumped into Turpin. Since then Darkseid's minions have been helping the presence to regain full strength and power and, using Turpin's body as a base, regain his place in the physical plane?

Well, it's not terrible, but what with Mozzer's habit for reusing story ideas, can I go on the record as the first to say Turpin=Xorn? Thank you.

Do we know exactly where Superman is missing at at the moment? Is he missing because he's fighting other Supermen in 3-D land or in the future? Or are both of those supposed to end with him returning to the exact same point in history? The Legions of 3 Worlds thing has him flying around Metropolis, so whether that's set before the Daily Planet bomb or after Lois is healed enough that he doesn't need to stay by her bed isn't clear.
 
 
Spaniel
08:37 / 27.10.08
I don't feel at all foolish to be paying for them. I wasn't a FC believer before this last issue - I was enjoying it, but not excessively so - but I feel no shame in admitting that I loved FC 4 to bits. It punched all my fuck-yeah and soppy buttons.

Of course FC is a superheroes almost lose everything and then come back and win story, 99% of stories ever told are of that variety. The question is whether Grant can do something fun with it, which is more than possible (although not necessarily gonna happen, obvs).
 
  

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