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Final Crisis

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17:05 / 18.11.08

and Grant is off battle of the cowl to be replaced by writer/artist Tony Daniels...

To be fair, Grant was never slated to write Battle for the Cowl. From this old interview:

Morrison: The two-part Final Crisis tie-in I'm doing to follow RIP is a kind of trek through Batman's entire history, but otherwise I'm not involved with the post-RIP projects. I'm very excited to see what Neil does. Then there's the "Battle for the Cowl," which I'm not writing, although I do know who wins. Then after that, I'm back on Batman and I'm sure there will be a big announcement about what that's going to be like.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

09:24 / 19.11.08

godstallion yeah i can't believe this, my jaw is on the floor really.... it is staggering to me that didio would ever do something like this; when dc has been the cooler of the "big two" for so long now....

That's 'cooler' in the sense of 'selling less comics'.

09:30 / 19.11.08

well sometimes its not about the money.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

14:34 / 19.11.08

For them it is, man. For them it is.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

18:46 / 10.12.08

You know, I'm always basically unprepared for the velocity of FINAL CRISIS whenever an issue actually makes it to the stands. Five is out. Spoilers to come:

Five or, well, "That Comic Where Everybody Says Creepy Things About Supergirl." I hope that Morrison's being intentional with all the sexual politics in this thing. "Look at her! I saw a leering old man in her eyes!"

Oh, Renee. You, Franky, and S.H.A.D.E. need your own damn book. Have them combined with Checkmate, whatever, make it happen.

FRANKENSTEIN! Just: yay. Quoting Paradise Lost, as well.

Anti-Life as advertizing jingle. The majority of people -- as seen with Iris Allen -- being indoctrinated by television.

Trial of the Green Lantern! Hal Jordan gets so many great lines, and you know: "You have 24 hours to save the universe, Lantern Jordan."

There's lots more, like the Number of God, but jeez.

Essential Dazzler

20:00 / 10.12.08

The leering old man line is surely telling us that Mary is host to Desaad?

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

20:06 / 10.12.08

I'm sad about that because: hello, Mad Harriet. But probably, yes.

21:22 / 10.12.08

I hope that Morrison's being intentional with all the sexual politics in this thing.

its grant morrison the man who gave us lord fanny, of course it's deliberate!

the television indoctrination was great.

22:07 / 10.12.08

I'm sad about that because: hello, Mad Harriet.

Didn't we already see Batwoman as Mad Harriet, riding with the Furies?

22:48 / 10.12.08

Interesting bit with the Rubik's cube being sort of god-hax0red into a Mother Box--harks back to the Father Box/dice of Seven Soldiers.

It suggests that any computing device can be miracled into performing as a Mother Box--it's the soul that counts, not the hardware.

...and, while I'm mentioning random hark-backs...three billion mind-controlled slaves! Six billion eyes! Someone's been rereading The Great Darkness.

01:53 / 11.12.08

Let's try to plot out the "Furies"
- Bernadeth: Wonder Woman
(she's the "most feared" and the "first recruited" of the Furies)
- Catwoman: Lashina
(second in command and devious and somewhat vain)
- Mad Harriet: Batwoman
(insane and sexual sadist)
- Stompa: Giganta
(gigantic and silent)

02:08 / 11.12.08

I must say the perverse sexual undertones are quite disturbing. not just with mary marvel. I mean, libra is promising 'first turns' with supergirl to lex luthor. I wonder what that's supposed to mean? yeesh.

but the thing with wonder woman is the worst. she's walking around with these scars on her back, and you can't see her face without the mask. in the context of what libra said... it's very bothersome.

but on the good side... FRANKENSTEIN!!! here's hoping franky gets to read some poetry as he lays a beating on kalibak or something.

and you know batman is gonna open up a can of whup ass just in time for superman to make his big entrance next issue.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

03:36 / 11.12.08

I meant what I said: it's a comic about people making creepy references to Kara. Even Renee's leering at the Nazi-parallel Supergirl. Mary's mumbling, "Mine mine mine." Libra's referencing gang-rape. That cover!

Incidentally, was there only the Chip Kidd cover for this issue? I didn't see a pin-up version anywhere on the stand.

I do love how much Lex and Libra are goading each other. Who's going to break first? When will Lex show his true colours?

Interesting bit with the Rubik's cube being sort of god-hax0red into a Mother Box--harks back to the Father Box/dice of Seven Soldiers.

I loved that bit and I didn't make the connection to Father Box, but yes. Whoever that is, whoever's under that hood? Himon, baby. That's Himon and he's making Mother Boxes for anyone who needs one. He's going to teach the people of Apokolips Redux how to be free, baby.

...and, while I'm mentioning random hark-backs...three billion mind-controlled slaves! Six billion eyes! Someone's been rereading The Great Darkness.

Another good spotting. Darkseid carved Daxam into a bust of himself!

Loved the stuff in the castle with Shilo, Sonny, and the Super Young Team. Another comic I'd love to read. Of course Shilo wears a super-bulletproof vest! Of course. "If gods made an iPod? Way beyond that." And every silly child who called their iPod Mother Box (raises hand), well, hah.

07:00 / 11.12.08

Incidentally, was there only the Chip Kidd cover for this issue? I didn't see a pin-up version anywhere on the stand.

There was one, with Wonder Woman.

I have some sympathy for her fans, I must say. The other two members of the Trinity are, respectively, voyaging across the multiverse to Save Everything, and sabotaging the creation of entire armies by sheer mental kickassness. Poor Diana's just being an evil slave warrior and, possibly, showing vague concern about it via the art. She's not even a very effective evil slave warrior. Killer Croc has had more on-panel success so far.

I do love how much Lex and Libra are goading each other. Who's going to break first? When will Lex show his true colours?

Yes, it's a nice contrast with ASS's Lex--the mainstream Luthor is always willing to pitch in (a little) against something eviller than he is.

I'd dig a daily comic strip that was just the adventures of Morrison's Sivana. I love how he's Lex's less-complicated, straightforward-mad-scientist counterpart.

Whoever that is, whoever's under that hood? Himon, baby. That's Himon and he's making Mother Boxes for anyone who needs one.

Oh yeah, Himon does make Mother Boxes, doesn't he? That clinches it. Now, what body is he using? I suppose it doesn't matter, since his traditional identity was "random low-level Apokolips guy." He's probably piloting a leftover hybrid body from Command-D.

Granny's comment about the Battery indicates that Metron's the god of technological innovation everywhere in the DCU. I guess that explains why his chair is just made of "plastic and wire" in the 5th-world. He doesn't need high-tech components if he can jigger a Rubik's cube into Mother Box-ness--his nature is to induce matter to ascend in complexity and function.

Apologies if this has been mentioned already (I didn't notice it in the thread) but all the Monitor surnames are riffs on gods of communication, mostly writing. Uotan/Odin, Tahoteh/Thoth, Ogama/Ogma, Hermuz/Hermes. Zillo Valla's probably named after Veles/Volos, a Slavic god of music, magic and the underworld. Still haven't figured out Weeja Dell....

simulated stereo

09:42 / 11.12.08

Still haven't figured out Weeja Dell....

Ouija + Dell computers?

11:19 / 11.12.08

Himon IS Detective Chimp!

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

11:21 / 11.12.08

"I must say the perverse sexual undertones are quite disturbing. not just with mary marvel. I mean, libra is promising 'first turns' with supergirl to lex luthor. I wonder what that's supposed to mean? yeesh."

Throughout the book Morrison has actually done a great job making evil legitimately evil.

Anyways, here's my review.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

14:47 / 11.12.08

Himon IS Detective Chimp!

Actually, that would be quite nice. One hopes it's Bobo under the hood.

Amanda Waller, by contrast, suffers from Seven Soldiers colouring error.

I still love Mister Terrific meeting Mister Miracle.

16:06 / 11.12.08

Ouija + Dell computers?

I REJECT YOUR FALSE GOD.

I'm not feeling much menace from Kalibak and the Tiger Clan; they're just too damn adorable. Who wants to bet Tawky Tawny defeats Kalibak and shows the Clan a nobler way, so they can head off via Time Compression into Kamandi's future and found their empire?

In fact, isn't the least-slavish-and-evil Tiger wearing the same headband that the virtuous Prince Tuftan wore?

18:32 / 11.12.08

For some reason, Weeja Dell keeps making me think "Deja Vu"

06:14 / 12.12.08

Read FC#5 and I had a petrified glimpse of the near-future shoved into my brains like a fist into a small mouth, I know how this thing ends. At the reverse eleventh hour HiFahthir and the New Nu Gawds, dressed in their finest fictionsuits will descend from the tropoverse to crucify DarkSyde to an unstable thought cross. It will all be terribly impressive and we'll all gasp with unencumbered glee/awe. Word weapons for everyone!

07:53 / 12.12.08

Why are you spelling things like that?

10:23 / 12.12.08

Why are you spelling things like that?

Because the only way something can possibly be considered new or hip or inventive is by converting it's name into some tongue-in-cheek post-modern reinterpreted bullshit that "the kids" will be able to auto-identify with. Isn't that the point of FC? To show that old cunt Kirby how it should be done? Oh Kirby, if you'd just had the foresight to have named the New Gods' super-computer motherboxxx, instead of Mother Box you'd have saved GM heaps of trouble.

And automatic, a more appropriate question would be, "why is Cassandra Nova driving around in an Alpha Lantern's body while looking for "unimaginable power sources" on alien worlds...again?". Didn't she learn her lesson in 2002?

10:28 / 12.12.08

I'm sorry, I wasn't being sarcastic or anything, I was genuinely curious. You make a good point.

12:42 / 12.12.08

I just re-read what Morrison's written up to this point. I enjoyed the scene in "Submit" where the Tattooed Man walks off into Justifier-controlled wherever, with his wife proclaiming him a superhero all along. One of those big, music-swelling, grand moments that you can imagine being the oscar clip for a nominated movie. Plus, I'm just a sucker for stuff like that.

Other good bit was Turpin's religious conversion. I read his succumbing to Darkseid as the bleak way of looking at spiritual re-birth. A lot of The Invisibles dealt with spiritual re-birth through drugs, alien abduction, psychological breakdown, crazy sex, mainly good things. Well, good things in that, in the end, everyone got the world they wanted. I suppose in Final Crisis they do, too, since all they want, the three billion, is Darkseid's world. That aside, Turpin giving in to the god was wonderful. Ask a born-again Christian, and they'll tell you they had no choice, that christ entered them and stayed and saved them. Darkseid did the same thing. (I will be uber-pissed if Turpin somehow defeats Darkseid and kicks him out. That would be ridiculous. Yep, ridiculous in a comic about superheros fighting gods.)

The first couple of issues were a bit plodding. The plot holes, well, I can forgive them. I mean, it is a super hero comic. Plot holes are part of the charm. The last couple of issues were cool, though. Anyone who didn't read submit, I recommend it, if only for a street-level view of the Apokalips invasion. I'd have been happy if the whole series had been like that. I want to see how it affects people, not how they beat it.

That said, how good can the ending possibly be, if its been fucked around with? Sigh....

16:45 / 12.12.08

To show that old cunt Kirby how it should be done? Oh Kirby, if you'd just had the foresight to have named the New Gods' super-computer motherboxxx, instead of Mother Box you'd have saved GM heaps of trouble.

The whole Fourth World project is intrinsically tied in to the culture it came out of, the late 60s hippie culture, that youthful conflict with the intrinsic forces of power. I think it's absurd to suggest that Kirby wouldn't have updated the concepts, maybe not in the exact same way, but I don't think he'd want people sitting around telling the same exact stories 40 years later. I'm sure he'd be happy to see the Outkast inspired motherboxxx and the way that Morrison integrated new technology with the classic New Gods mythology.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

16:57 / 12.12.08

First up, let's dial it down with the c-word use, it's not so kosher on the Lith.

While I've started to genuinely enjoy Final Crisis, and not just simply because of my man Franky, it's walking a very thin line with its use of Kirby concepts -- it feels a little lazy in its use of the Fourth World to tick off boxes from Kirby's other comics, primarily OMAC and Kamandi. It's getting a little bit Wold-Newton about it, and that way lies a certain passionless encyclopedia-writing. Which might be why I'm tending to enjoy the other bits more, like Nix Uoton's new look.

18:03 / 12.12.08

Oh Kirby, if you'd just had the foresight to have named the New Gods' super-computer motherboxxx, instead of Mother Box you'd have saved GM heaps of trouble.

Didn't Kirby give us Darkseid, Apokolips, Simyan, Kalibak, Kamandi, Ikaris, Makkari, Sersi, Attilan? I doubt he would have been scandalized by taking preexisting names or phrases and messing with the spelling.

18:31 / 12.12.08

let's dial it down with the c-word use, it's not so kosher on the Lith.

Wrong order. It's so not kosher on the Lith.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

18:58 / 12.12.08

I wish there was auto-editors that just redacted it whenever it came up, to be honest.

And for the sake of FC-related content, someone pointed out to me that the two-pager with Franky features vehicles who are actually Metal Men, hence a Humvee with eyebrows and a golden tank...

19:16 / 12.12.08

Ace. I'm working in town tomorrown an' all. Comic shop (je) t('a)ime!

20:43 / 12.12.08

It still surprises me that "the 'Lith" should be such a bunch of uptight cunts about some things, to be honest.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

21:12 / 12.12.08

Surprises you how? By having a clear stance that misogynistic language is not acceptable? Board users are expected to comport themselves with respect for other members, Kadmon. That includes you.

21:59 / 12.12.08

I understand the clear stance, Papers. I disagree with the assumption that the word is necessarily misogynistic. In my opinion, unless all words referring to genitalia are considered taboo when used in such a way, there is a gender bias that I consider problematic. In a truly non-sexist arena, the word cunt should be no more offensive than dick or cock or bollocks. Just my opinion.

But hey, that's not the point of this thread, so let's not get bogged down. I don't use the word in anger against people, and where I come from, the word doesn't carry the same negativity that it seems to in the US, for example. Feel free to PM me if you want to continue the discussion, Papers. It's just my belief that banning words is highly problematic.

09:03 / 13.12.08

Didn't Kirby give us Darkseid, Apokolips, Simyan, Kalibak, Kamandi, Ikaris, Makkari, Sersi, Attilan? I doubt he would have been scandalized by taking preexisting names or phrases and messing with the spelling.

Without forgetting Desaad and Virman Vundabar...
one of the point of Kirby's work was the use of archetypes, in characters or in names. I do think that Morrison know that and studied that for a long time.
Indeed if Kirby was alive today, his work would probably look more like Final Crisis than 1960's Fantastic Four.

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