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Final Crisis

 
  

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smurph
14:26 / 27.06.08
Re: Fire imagery. Just noticed that Sonny Sumo makes his first contact with a New God immediately after Megayakuza sets him on fire.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:46 / 27.06.08
so the lettering "FINAL CRISIS" gets slightly lighter/more faded from #1's cover to #2, is that it...?
 
 
FinderWolf
14:49 / 27.06.08
Now that Morrison is writing many Flashes in FC, this would be the perfect time for DC to [finally] release a paperback of the Morrison/Millar FLASH run (esp. following on the heels of the Morrison/Millar AZTEK series paperback).
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
15:24 / 27.06.08
Not lighter or fadeder, rougher. The names on the sliver cover are rougher and on the Flash cover, they're actually off register.

Should look pretty great by #7.
 
 
PatrickMM
15:29 / 27.06.08
Ask and you shall receive: Flash: Emergency Stop
 
 
FinderWolf
15:47 / 27.06.08
nice!! January 6, 2009 shipping date. I can groove with that. Thanks for the link. Was just about to send an email to DC asking for this paperback.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
16:14 / 27.06.08
I think it is literal. The first thing I would take out in a Green Lantern would be his/her eyes. The ring is a direction-based weapon. If they can't see you, they can't punch you with a giant boxing glove.

Actually, someone did a story once -- I think it was in The Nail -- that suggested they wouldn't need to see to use the ring's correctly. As long as they can imagine the glove hitting you, it does.
 
 
Aertho
17:32 / 27.06.08
they wouldn't need to see to use the ring's correctly. As long as they can imagine the glove hitting you, it does.

Kraken inbetween Grannyttacks: “our weapons don’t work” ...in the Anti-Life Equation.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
17:46 / 27.06.08
Well, the Anti-Life does rather do away with one's imagination, no?
 
 
The Falcon
18:08 / 27.06.08
This is it - that's what a theotoxin is; Grant's very real idea of hell, seen over and over, is a world stripped of all these wonders and incredible things. The stuff like the Turpin/Hatter scene does - perhaps uncharitably - read like a serious knock on Gotham Central, for example, the sort of Dark Age scions, noir, realist comics that I think he really, really doesn't like.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
18:20 / 27.06.08
re: john stewart's eyes - it's the owner's will that powers the ring, no? but taking the will \ imagination of a person seems to be something the bullet radiation does.

re: FC as DCU's FILTH - i'm getting the same bad vibes from this. my last couple of days have been so unexplainably shitty it seems someone has taken a dump inside my skull.

got to find the life quotient [as in "Lost's constant"?] to nullify the anti-life equation.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
18:27 / 27.06.08
It's weird to hear noir comics described as "realist," honestly, because they're all about the same kind of exaggerations, just in different directions. Noir is just screwball comedy through the dark glass.

re: FC as DCU's FILTH - i'm getting the same bad vibes from this. my last couple of days have been so unexplainably shitty it seems someone has taken a dump inside my skull.

I'd recommend reading this week's Young Avengers Presents and Runaways/Young Avengers, they correctly nullified the bad feeling I had after reading the Final Crisis on Wednesday.

Honestly, with Jones's art being the way it's been this issue, I'm actively looking forward to Pacheco coming in to help out.
 
 
The Falcon
19:20 / 27.06.08
In retrospect, I did wonder about putting the old scarequotes round "realistic" but the point is, anhh, comics that treat Gotham or whatever (and, really, Catwoman was for about 20 issues, by an exponential amount, the best comic with a DC bullet in Morrison's interregnum from 99-05) as a material, grimey world. No real cosmology; they are their own. Mostly Gotham, I suppose, on the DC tip. Star City.
 
 
Aertho
22:01 / 27.06.08
So the new body for Darkseid's son? People think Kalibak, but could they be putting Orion inside of Batman?

It could be really healing if Private Investigator Turpin ends up as an adoptive father figure to the Dark Knight Detective.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
22:13 / 27.06.08
...especially if Allen Heinberg writes it, as a Gilmore Girls spin-off.
 
 
Aertho
23:02 / 27.06.08
Lol.
 
 
Cowboy Scientist
00:40 / 28.06.08
From en.dcdatabaseproject.com's article on the New Gods:

"Radion: New Gods are vulnerable to a substance called Radion. Its source is unknown and its effects are toxic only in sustained amounts or after explosive exposure. The average New God can be slain by an application of Radion from a Radion blaster or bomb. More advanced beings such as Mister Miracle, protected by their mother box, armor, and sheer toughness have been known to take up to two hits and survive. Radion, must be hard to come by because if it was not, Darkseid would obviously equip more of his troops with it."

Maybe that's the theotoxic material inside the bullet?
I can't seem to find a pic to compare it, though.
 
 
vajramukti
04:26 / 28.06.08
I like how in the second issue you invert everything that was built up in the first.

the martian manhunter is whacked halfway through the first and halfway through the second he's in the ground and the plot has moved on.

you get the sense in the first that you're seeing some kind of murder mystery with turpin and the lanterns at opposite ends of the same cosmic mystery, then BAM, jordan and stewart are both off the board, and turpin is actually DARKSEID. WTF?

lex actually strikes me as one to watch. it's like the aeon shifted and suddenly lex is cutting away from all the hardcore psychos and demonstrating some kind of restraint. it's like he's the new model hero for the fifth world, and he just doesn't know it, while all the old heroes are being swept away. pure supposition at this point, of course.
 
 
Neon Snake
07:32 / 28.06.08
"In retrospect, I did wonder about putting the old scarequotes round "realistic" but the point is, anhh, comics that treat Gotham or whatever (and, really, Catwoman was for about 20 issues, by an exponential amount, the best comic with a DC bullet in Morrison's interregnum from 99-05) as a material, grimey world. No real cosmology; they are their own. Mostly Gotham, I suppose, on the DC tip. Star City."

I dunno about this. Personally, I suspect that it's not just the noiry, grimey feel that grates; rather the lack of optimism that can sometimes characteris those sorts of comics.

Shortcut to 'meaningful' = kill all the characters, have evil win, have good lose...end the story. See Wanted, see La Haine, see Reservoir Dogs, see Watchmen, etc etc.

Gotham Central had it's moments of optimism and it's small victories for the police force; crucially, it was well-written and enjoyable.

This, I think, is what Final Crisis will be about it the end; yes, Evil will win, and it will be bleak and harrowing for the next issue or two. Then, we will get a glorious fightback showing the inherent power of 'good'.

Whilst this is kind of standard practice for events comics, I think we're going to see it amped up beyond belief; and I think he's going to have the balls to cast aside all the nonsense about moral ambiguity and just display it as incredibly old-skool black-and-white good-and-evil.
 
 
NezZ the 2nd
12:39 / 28.06.08
With reference to the John Stewart eyes moment. I think Kraken was probably about to shoot his eyes out, when John breaks free and goes to punch her. Its a classic movie moment when the bad guy says something witty and then the hero socks him/her in the jaw!

Who is the guy drawing superheroes? Who is the black knight in the last page chassing Barry Allen?
 
 
FinderWolf
12:50 / 28.06.08
who is the guy drawing superheroes? Did you READ issue 1? That's the exiled Monitor from the second half of the first issue, who wakes up in a mortal body in the final pages of issue 1, dude. (Forgive the incredulity/snarky, just thought this was obvious)

who is the black knight figure chasing Barry Allen at the end of issue 2? That's The Black Racer, Kirby-created personification of Death in the New Gods (also used by Morrison in a less-new visual design at the very end of Morrison's ROCK OF AGES JLA arc). Morrison decided to give many of the New Gods a visual redesign and thought 'evil black knight' was scarier/more relevant than 'black clad armored figure who skis for DEATH!!!1!!' Go figure.

anyway,

>> turpin is actually DARKSEID. WTF?

Dark Side/Darkseid already has a body, as we saw in issue 1 and in SEVEN SOLIDERS: MISTER MIRACLE (it's the huge Ving Rhames-looking guy); Orion is famous for having a craggy, vaguely-Darkseid-esque face under his famous helmet, right? So I think we're being led to see the Orion is in Turpin. (Plus, Orion is the 'bloodthirsty hardened warrior' and Turpin gets off on beating the crap out of the Mad Hatter in #2 and wonders why he's enjoying the violence so much.) Add that to the clue about "my father used to say that to me" from Turpin in issue 1 and there ya go.

I could be very wrong about this, though, admittedly.
 
 
FinderWolf
12:52 / 28.06.08
>> This, I think, is what Final Crisis will be about it the end; yes, Evil will win, and it will be bleak and harrowing for the next issue or two. Then, we will get a glorious fightback showing the inherent power of 'good'.

>> Whilst this is kind of standard practice for event comics, I think we're going to see it amped up beyond belief; and I think he's going to have the balls to cast aside all the nonsense about moral ambiguity and just display it as incredibly old-skool black-and-white good-and-evil.

I think you're dead-on correct about this. And the aftermath may actually leave at least some things in the DCU "CHANGED FOREVER!!! THIS TIME WE REALLY MEAN IT!!"
 
 
NezZ the 2nd
13:34 / 28.06.08
Ahh thanks for the answers. I was under the impression the black dude could have been Martian Manhunter. I think that you are right about Orion, due to them touching in the first issue.

Does Metron have any connection to the Black Racer?
 
 
Mario
14:18 / 28.06.08
Not really. The Racer is the Source's avatar of Death.

(Don't try to think how it fits with Sandman... it doesn't)

((Don't think about Death Of The New Gods, either ))

Metron is the ostensibly-neutral but usually heroic New God of "Science!"
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
15:04 / 28.06.08
there's a panel where Reverend Good tells Turpin that they've found a body for "your son, Kalibak the Cruel". I think that kind of narrows down who is possessing Turpin.

there was the bit about Darkseid living backwards in time. maybe as time goes by...backwardsy, he'll come to look more and more like the guy in SSoV?
 
 
Mario
15:20 / 28.06.08
Not living backwards. He fell backwards in time (as seen in DCU #0) after defeating New Genesis (a pyrhhic victory seen nowhere in particular) and landed on Earth a couple of years ago (as seen in Seven Soldiers).

This means, by the way, that there were actually two Darkseids running around for a while. I'm assuming Dark Side has been keeping a low profile until his younger self begins his fall (which is where we started)
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:51 / 28.06.08
there's a panel where Reverend Good tells Turpin that they've found a body for "your son, Kalibak the Cruel". I think that kind of narrows down who is possessing Turpin.

Or who Reverend Good thinks is possessing him.

11! 23!
 
 
Mario
00:03 / 29.06.08
Actually, I'm starting to agree with the idea that Turpin is possessed by both Orion & Darkseid. Consider this line from one of Grants interviews:

"And, as you’ll see in issue #2, Turpin is being set up to take centre stage in a battle that will make his previous struggle with Kalibak look like a game of kiss chase."
 
 
The Natural Way
00:30 / 29.06.08
Indeed!

Very cool.

Aaargh! I've got to stop spoiling shit for myself. You are undoubtedly right, Mario, and I've had another surprise fritzed.

Bugger.
 
 
The Natural Way
22:31 / 29.06.08
As far as I can see this is what's going to happen.

The Dark Gods are representative of the first stage in the process when the divine descends to Earth in order to seed it. They're the soil and the fertiliser. Later they will give way to the astral, transcendental forces of the gods of light. Darkseid himself will incubate and give birth to his son, Orion, the celestial warrior, probably somewhere near the end of the run.

It's all part of the cosmic plan. Poor Darkseid and co - little do they know they're just a necessary step on the way. Just glyphs in the spell.
 
 
the Fool
23:55 / 29.06.08
The crypts of Bludhaven have a very 'Outer Church' feel to them methinks. Those cells with slaves destined for joyless existance are reminiscent of Quimper's slave pens. The gods of Apokalpis as Archons building hell on Earth for all to unenjoy.

I thought Turpin may have been possessed by Desaad initially, given his sadism with the Mad Hatter, but Rev Goode and Granny both refer to him as Master and the mention of his 'son' Kailbak pretty much means Darkeid has jumped from his previous body to Turpins IMHO.
 
 
the Fool
23:59 / 29.06.08
ooh, and on the 'blinding a green lantern' thing. In the JLA arc where Talia used Batman's failsafes to take out the whole roster, blindness was used on Kyle to neutralise him. It wasn't completely successful and Kyle was able to manifest constructs, however he had great difficultly keeping them coherent and directed.
 
 
Spaniel
08:01 / 30.06.08
The only problem with that reading, Natural, is that it doesn't give anyone anything to do. That doesn't mean it's wrong, mind.
 
 
murphy
11:24 / 30.06.08
Hey, everybody, look!

It's Goraiko on page 3, coming up on the tired old monster's right flank.


From weary monster,
Goraiko helped to save us.
Damn kids nowadays.
 
 
The Natural Way
11:28 / 30.06.08
Did the Invisibles do nothing? Did the Outer Church guys do nothing? It's that weird thing Grant does with fate and free will.
 
  

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