Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Comic Books >

Final Crisis

Page: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12(13)14 15 16 17 18... 34

19:23 / 11.06.08

I may possibly have been poking a _tiny_ bit of fun at Mario missing the pyrotranquilisers, admittedly.

Hey, I'm working from memory here.

20:10 / 11.06.08

Oy, my bad Haus. Shitty day brought a shitty reading and a tad of a sense of persecution. Chalk it up to anti-life equation or something. The DarkManJuice made me do it. Ibeegone.

20:13 / 11.06.08

I lolled at the funny stuff, Haus, and nodded at the obvious, so your effort wasn't wasted.

Event fatigue? Not quite, but I share Papers frustration voiced over in the Captain Britain thread re how crossovers can drag solid books annoyingly off course.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

20:30 / 11.06.08

The Captain Britain thing doubly annoys me on the grounds that, shit, it hasn't even had time to get anywhere with its new status quo that doesn't involve the Skrulls.

Final Crisis, though, it reeks of event fatigue. DC's been in perma-Crisis for a while now; nothing feels particularly special about this one.

Only FC stuff I picked up this week was Action Comics, which has a "Sightings" banner and the ugliest Brainiac I've seen in a while -- I really don't know how I feel about Gary Frank. I have no idea how Brainiac and his bottle cities are supposed to fit into FC. It also includes, for A*S fans, the mainstream return of Cat Grant, Ron Troupe, and Steve Lombard to the Daily Planet; other than Clark showing some insight into Cat Grant's character, I'm sure what's the happs with it. Nice to see Ron, though.

20:38 / 11.06.08

If you ask me next year I imagine I'll be very fatigued

21:16 / 11.06.08

Is reading things unfashionable now? Is reading just like office politics?

I read the thing, I just don't think it qualifies as the guy complaining to Newsarama that readers aren't accepting his one true method of ignoring editorial snafus. Reads like a weary attempt at a joke or two.

Issue #2's out in two weeks, the 25th. Batman crucifixion cover. I'm sort of interested to see how that goes in light of the ongoing Batman RIP story, if it's Bruce Wayne in there or not. If nothing else, folks will have twice the Final Crisis pagecount to argue over.

I've been heading into superhero fatigue pretty powerfully. This, ASS, and Batman are all I'm reading, and two of those books will be finished before long. It's possible that Final Crisis will work as a capstone for Morrison's DCU run from the past 15 or so years - it sounds as if he's trying to wrap up everything he's been playing with since his JLA run, anyway. That kind of potential narrative payoff, tying off a lot of pretty great stories, would make a nice sendoff to comics reading for awhile.

21:20 / 11.06.08

Yeah, I think Superhero fatigue is more of a problem for me at the moment.

21:46 / 11.06.08

I hit superhero fatigue a while ago. I was only reading a small handful of ongoings anyway, and my Big 2 titles all lost their creative teams, gaining worse writers in exchange.

(At the moment, the only ongoing I follow is a small press book that's had the same writer for over 15 years)

FC looks like it'll feed my inner Nevins for a while, tho.

01:53 / 12.06.08

barbelith is feeling old. only natural. still sad, though.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

05:08 / 12.06.08

World War 3 was a better Crisis story for me than Infinite Crisis purely for the moment when every human being becomes a superhero to fight Mageddon. How can Emo Superboy killing New Superboy and Golden Age Superman compare to that?

ONLY NICE THINGS

05:08 / 12.06.08

barbelith is feeling old. only natural. still sad, though.

Well, who knows? Maybe grantmorrison.com will have a message board. I've been hoping so for some time.

The Natural Way

09:12 / 12.06.08

I used to get so annoyed with the lists people would make of stuff resembling 'insert theme here'. Eventually my constant refrain of 'Yes, but what exactly does that mean? What is the point?' began to hurt my head.

So I stopped.

It's a bit late in the day to call people on this shit now, haus.

09:50 / 12.06.08

Maybe I'll just post to the FAQ, instead.

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:55 / 12.06.08

Don't pout, Mario. It's unbecoming.

Hope springs eternal in a young man's breast, Natural. Papers has already made a suggestion about what all the fire imagery is about - fire consumes, but also cleanses. Fire is a common feature of depictions of Hell, of course, and a world run by evil sounds quite a lot like Hell. But fire is also the thing that is given to man to help him to advance - it's what makes Anthro a superhero, and clearly foreshadows the Promethean weapon that Kamandi is looking for at the end. I would personally find it beltingly amusing if next issue was all about water (Aquaman! Black Manta - the Malcolm X of the sea! The Justice League of Atlanteans!) but I suspect it won't be.

10:56 / 12.06.08

much like those who saw in the beginning of a series such as Wildcats or the Authority an implicit undertaking to provide some form of middle and end.

sniff You had to remind me choke

I'll show Mozzer though! Whilst he's slaving in the firepits next to David Gerrold I'll be flicking through the (no-doubt) brainless and horribly middle-of-the-road DC/Wildstorm cross-over and laughing. Laughing!

11:39 / 12.06.08

Well, water has associations with Venus, which would extend the astrology metaphor. But Papers is probably right that the fire imagery will extend through the entire mini. Since we now know that Dark Side & co are NOT the Fifth World, that suggests he's trying to prevent his Fourth World from being burned away.

14:36 / 12.06.08

barbelith is feeling old. only natural. still sad, though.

well I still think you guys are all awesome. I wouldn't appreciate these comics as much if I didn't read all the cool stuff you guys keep spotting, and learned to read closer. barbelith annotations are the best, and even differing opinions force me to think on the work I'm reading.

I'm really appreciative of what Haus referenced in the last page, about how comics criticism has to develop in a certain direction--borrowing a lot from literary criticism but also considering volatile elements such as art, continuity and an elevated intertextuality. Considering the fact that much of superhero fiction is concept-oriented/idea-centric -- it's easy to get lost in identifying possible allusions and references, but you guys have proven that there's a rich well of insight to be had from exploring these.

(Sorry, I hope I'm not being obvious or superficial again.)

Anyway, Nix Uotan's been inserted into a life, hasn't he? Context clue from the 3rd to the last panel. Like being inserted into a continuity as a way to invalidate a prior existence. Dunno if that'll be thematically significant given the Fourth-Fifth World transition, but it's got me thinking of characters like The Question (and even the New Gods!) and how they've morphed as a consequence of their (sometimes forced) insertion into the DCU.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:19 / 12.06.08

Re: insertion. The Fallen God trope is fairly common in DC over the ages -- I'm thinking of Nabu incarnating as an old bitter man living with Kent and Inza Nelson -- so I'm curious to see if they'll do anything particularly interesting with it, maybe invert it in some way. I don't expect it'll make me suddenly all about the Monitors, though.

Mozzbottom's gone to the well of elemental symbolism before, and the "each issue is a classic element" routine featured fairly strongly in Zatanna (at least in terms of how one could read into them), so I don't think he'll be strobing them at us with this. Honestly, keeping it strictly to the fire imagery would make more sense when writing an event like this; there's going to be a lot going on in any given issue and having a set image system in place would give him something solid to work with, particularly when you've got editorial mandates coming down about who's supposed to die or have their arms torn off in the name of Silver Age Revivalism.

Whether it'll play out like that, who knows; but I suspect fire will be a leitmotif rather than a motif, you know?

That said, I saw the advert for #3 in this week's books (maybe, I dunno, they could have waited until #2 was out) -- "Where were you when the Martian Manhunter died?" -- and thought it a bit odd. In narrative terms his death was so off-hand that while in-story the response seems worthy (he was, you know, big name JLA and all), on this side of the Fourth Wall it really just seems to point at the excessive hand-wringing after the fact that seems to be more what DC's about lately; characters are killed off in one or two panels and then there's just shrieking and recriminations for months on end.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

15:54 / 12.06.08

The Zatanna mini was, in some ways, about overcoming your own dark side (wasn't it? Poor withered Flowers), I wonder if this will matter.

It would be quite funny if the Seven Soldiers save the day again.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

16:25 / 12.06.08

It would give a bit more meat and connection to Mister Miracle's part in the series, I have to say; if the Sheeda were merely prequel, if you will, to the main event. I imagine Klarion and his Future Witch-Kingdom might be something of a thorn in old Darkseid's backseid.

Janean Patience

17:10 / 12.06.08

A closer reading: The comic does make sense, more so now I've read that interview. The central event is the death of a god, the New Gods have vanished, Darkseid's clothed in flesh on Earth. Everything else happens around that.

When I say it's incoherent, then, I mean it in two ways. First, Grant's writing hasn't worked for me in a while on a panel-by-panel, balloon-by-balloon level. Nothing seems to connect; dialogue doesn't flow. I keep going back checking where I am. Sounds like I've damaged part of my brain, in fact. Second, the story doesn't cohere. All these different things are going on but none really grabs my attention. Final Crisis was no different to DC Universe in that respect. Three pages here, three there. Stuff happens. Cosmic.

As I said, it wasn't until Grant broadcast that Orion being dead was the kicking-off point for the series that the issue pulled together. And I'm Grant's ideal reader in that I read Seven Soldiers and 52 but gave not a fuck about Death Of The New Gods and Countdown. He's always approached the New Gods at a skewed angled before, why not a full run?

Why didn't Orion's death scene have any impact, then? Because the execution was so pedestrian. Street-level cop down the docks finds a body while recapping his case and informing of his chronological position vis a vis his pension plan. Body in dumpster comes alive to say a few crucial and cryptic words, dies.

It's TV movie level. It's nothing but cliche. So are the scenes following, though there are decent moments. A dead New God isn't a massive twist in a DC comic. We've been set up for cosmic in the pages preceding, which admittedly were fantastically original and a superb opening to the movie 2001. Yeah, sure, homage. But lacking as an opening to a big event comic, because it's just a retake of one of the most memorable openings on film.

The other big deal, the death of J'onn, also carried no weight. Only the scenes with the Guardians and Alpha Lanterns were even cosmic enough to make this seem like an event comic. I've not liked any of Grant's superhero work for some time. I can hardly see anything worthwhile in it anymore.

18:21 / 12.06.08

It's TV movie level.

Isn't that the point? Repeatedly, they've said things come together and explode in issue 3. We'll see, right?

*******

I'm not really impressed by any application of fire symbolism as a motif, Prometheus aside. That may change if it becomes more apparent than Turpin burning his hand and MM getting "pyro" tranqs.

21:25 / 16.06.08

FINAL CRISIS #4
Written by Grant Morrison
Art by J.G. Jones and Carlos Pacheco
Covers by J.G. Jones
It's one month after the Anti-Life Equation was released worldwide. Millions now toil as slaves of Darkseid, while the Justifier shock troops of Apokolips lay waste to the planet Earth and hunt down its protectors.
The remaining free humans and superheroes are stationed around the world, besieged within the walls of ten very familiar 'Watchtowers', as they fight a desperate, losing battle against the triumphant forces of evil.
While Green Arrow and Black Canary attempt to deliver the secret of humanity's last hope across America's blasted wastelands, the Outsiders brave the horrors of the Bludhaven bunker in search of Batman. The ultimate battle is coming…but which heroes will become villain - and vice versa? And what part do the Secret Society have to play in the dawning of this new Age of Evil?
Darkness is falling and death rules the day. Is this truly the end of the Age of Super Heroes? Don't miss FINAL CRISIS #4: "How to Murder the Earth!"

and yep. carlos pacheco joins j.g. as artist.

22:02 / 16.06.08

Behold the tiny T. rex arms of Darkseid!

22:17 / 16.06.08

Darkseid Balboa?

22:37 / 16.06.08

It's like two people, just off camera, are holding two tiny Darkseid arms in front of him. As a joke. Darkseid frowns at your Humour Equation!

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

23:28 / 16.06.08

Is...is Darkseid wearing a girdle? An omega-girdle? An...anti-life girdle?

23:52 / 16.06.08

Is...is Darkseid wearing a girdle? An omega-girdle? An...anti-life girdle?

Darkseid Is!

He may be wearing a wife-beater. Does Darkseid hold the secret to anti-wife?

02:16 / 17.06.08

JG J. sure seems to like the visible belly button, no?

Creates that weird little mouth on the fat of the gut.

But his face is creepy enough.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

03:06 / 17.06.08

The mouth-guard seems an odd choice. You know. In case he wanted to, say, utter the anti-life equation in someone's ear.

And, having reread a bunch of Seven Soldiers stuff over the past couple days -- particularly the Mister Miracle stuff -- it's creepy how much it was a prequel to Final Crisis. The whole Sheeda threat was part of a bargain between Darkseid and Gloriana Tenebrae -- the Sheeda got Western civilization and Darkseid got the planet.

And evil wins; Darkseid announces that when he shoots Shilo in the head. Only, you know, he isn't around to see Shilo emerging from the grave...a secret bullet we can expect to see in the days ahead?

03:58 / 17.06.08

andrew, haus, i dunno if i have to explain what i meant, but i'm going to:

barbelith is not feeling old for *me* - but a certain number of people saying they're getting event fatigue from superhero comics tells me barbelith is feeling what readers get from time to time - "maybe i'm too old for this shit".

and maybe barbelith is reading TOO MANY *bad* superhero comics, that's all. yeah, this salmon retreat has made my reading experience much better for years now.

it's my saturday afternoon at the comic store chatting with fellow nerd, but all days of the week and with nerds that have much more to offer.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

05:38 / 17.06.08

On reading the solicitation for issue 4, I do wonder why Grant has allowed himself to be put in the situation of having to rewrite the Darkseid part of 'Rock of Ages' and make it better. I know the tights comics generally have an aversion to new ideas and that tights comics readers generally prefer the stories of yesteryear to those of today but taking one of those stories and repackaging it as the big event of the summer seems especially depressing and pointless.

ONLY NICE THINGS

07:17 / 17.06.08

Yeah - my immeidiate response to this, once I got past crop-top Darkseid, was "that sounds like fun", followed by "that sounds like Rock of Ages". I think the other thing being that we now know that, if the changes are that big, there will be a reboot at the end of it. Although it might be quite fun to do an Infinite Earths and smoosh all the hugely underused multiverses back into one, it might be stretching the reader's charity somewhat.

The Natural Way

11:50 / 17.06.08

Carlos Pacheco, hmm?

Oh well. He's not exactly the shittest artist, but he's no Jones.

Why oh why is Morrison forever cursed with this shit? Did he refuse to kiss the Queen of the gypsies?

Keith, like a scientist

11:59 / 17.06.08

It's nice of them to spoil the end of #3 for us in the solicits, ain't it?

Page: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12(13)14 15 16 17 18... 34