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Final Crisis

 
  

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ONLY NICE THINGS
22:26 / 05.06.08
I've heard the argument that Comic X is a demonstration of the corrupting influence of grim and gritty comics on the bright and colourful world of DC a fair few times, now, and specifically from Identity Crisis on. The idea usually advanced in that Identity Crisis was DC saying to their fans "You want comics to be darker and more realistic? Well, here you are! Doctor Light rapes people! Tim Drake's dad's dead! This supervillain has just been shot a load of times and fallen over. The Elongated Man is clinically depressed. The Atom's wife can't cope with their divorce - so she's killing people. You like that? That's what you wanted!" In effect, that they have caught their readers smoking and are making them smoke the whole pack so that they are sickened and lose the urge for grimngritty. See also brightly-coloured, childlike Superboy in Infinite Crisis being turned into a contender for the Black Adam limb-pulling-off prize.

The problem with this is that a) if it is true, DC was stacking the deck by making the grim and gritty Identity Crisis a pile of shit and b) it's been going on for quite a while to be a short, sharp and shocking illustration of how unfun it all is before restoring the lovely, happy, brightly-coloured DC universe. See World War III, much of 52, a chunk of Countdown and so on - there's only so much you can reasonably take before you start thinking that maybe, just maybe, they aren't making it balls on purpose. Ultimately, perhaps one just has to get the hang of the idea that the Geoff Johns model of what makes a good superhero comic is a) a vigorous attention to the history of the minor characters of the DC universe and their interrelations and b) somebody pulling off the leg of character A and violating character B with it. It may not be nice, but sometimes real life isn't.
 
 
Mark Parsons
22:27 / 05.06.08
Beast, you want "dark seed," then read THE FILTH and check out the giant flying black sperm monsters.

FC: read it for the third time and still think it's a great set up.
 
 
doctoradder
01:33 / 06.06.08
ITEM! I before E except after C or when sounded like "A" as in "neighbor" & "weigh"

In the English language, "-ei-" is normally pronounced as a long "ee" or as a long "a" sound. See:

* receive
* ceiling
* caffeine
* protein
* Reid
* Keith
* weight
* reign
* neighbor

I presume that if you immediately and unambiguously went for the long "i" sound, you may have been reading these texts in German where words like "ein" and "stein" prevail.

ITEM! Dark-"seed" vs. Dark-"side"

According to Jack's old assistant Mark Evanier, "Kirby always pronounced it... 'dark side,' as in 'the dark side' of man's nature." However....

"At least once, when some fan who pronounced it 'dark seed' was excitedly telling Jack his theories about the character, Jack went along with it, rather than correct the kid... He hated to dampen enthusiasm and passion, and so would often 'go with' what others felt or believed."

http://www.povonline.com/jackfaq/JackFaq4.htm

"Eensteen." Heh. No wonder you're THOR! All that sarcasm must chafe.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
01:50 / 06.06.08
CBR's Final Crisis annotations
 
 
Billuccho!
02:06 / 06.06.08
Those aren't annotations.

THESE are annotations.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
02:50 / 06.06.08
"At least once, when some fan who pronounced it 'dark seed' was excitedly telling Jack his theories about the character, Jack went along with it, rather than correct the kid... He hated to dampen enthusiasm and passion, and so would often 'go with' what others felt or believed."

Could Jack Kirby's biographer have been discussing aspects of 'The King's' private life that people, these days, might not understand, necessarily?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
03:35 / 06.06.08
I'll admit it; it would make an old lady's heart very happy if it turned out that Jack Kirby had been a dangerous child molester, all along.

'Explain that away, Jonathan Ross', etc.

'Are you still a fan now, Lenny Henry ... Actually, you probably are. Oh well, at least you're not still married to ... right. Oh god.'
 
 
_Boboss
07:40 / 06.06.08
the burden of sarcasmo does chafe often - luckily i have effective creims.
 
 
Spaniel
08:03 / 06.06.08
Haus, you've hit on something that's been nagging me for a while now. If DC are planning to brighten up their universe, they're sure taking a long time to do it. My feeling about FC, however, is that Morrison will attempt to go that route regardless. Obviously that's the kind of thing that can be scuppered by editorial interference, but I suspect DC might well want a cheery ending ths time around. Nothing Morrison does in FC has to affect the DCU's rend-rape culture - arms can still be ripped off in Green Lantern, everyone's happy.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
09:28 / 06.06.08
As long as Dan Diddykong is muk-muk in chief of DC, it'll remain the continuity strangled shitpile it currently is. I'm reading Final Crisis as it's own thing, and it's working just fine in my opinion. Wolfman and Perez' original was full of characters who mean little or nothing to a modern audience, and it doesn't really matter - it's still an enjoyably histrionic cosmic romp. Ultimately and probably selfishly, I don't really care if FC is new reader friendly. There are plenty of comics out there that are.

Alex - in the DCU Kirby might be a kddy fiddler but not here on Qwerq, so keep your grubby fantasies to yourself. Or I'll get Paul Gambaccini to sit on you.
 
 
Mario
09:32 / 06.06.08
Evanier is more than just Kirby's biographer... he was Jack's assistant during the New Gods era.
 
 
the Fool
09:30 / 07.06.08
If anyone is still bothered by the continuity issue I recommend going back and re-reading seven soldiers, particularly Mister Miracle. Delete countdown, and it all fits much nicer.

Its interesting as in MM its spelled out that the 'war in heaven' had already been lost. Seven Soldiers was apparently meant to overlap Infinite Crisis timewise and I noticed looking over it again that there is no New God involved really. The only 'new god' that appears is Knockout of Apokalips as part of the secret six. You'd think all that unversal squishy plink plong that Alex Luthor was doing would get their interest a bit, but no. In 52 there were the 4 horsemen, (that were sorta summoned), Devilance the Pursuer as well as Powerboy and Little Barda, again all from Apokalips. Also we get the first introduction of crime bible and Darksides new religion of evil. No bright New Genesis gods to be seen anywhere... except maybe Mr Miracle as Shilo Norman, though I'm not sure if he's in it. All of this works with the idea that Darkside won the war and the bright gods had already been banished.

It sorta looks like there was a consistent plan up to this point. If countdown never happened Superman and the Justice League would not have seen any of the New Gods since prior to Infinite Crisis - at least 3 years in their time.
 
 
Spaniel
12:51 / 07.06.08
Thanks, Fool. Quite in-ter-est-ing.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
14:20 / 07.06.08
ok, Billuccho! "comments".

Fool - nice one - I failed to mention the SEVEN SOLDIERS: MISTER MIRACLE continuity regarding the Lost War, but you connected it very well with INFINITE CRISIS. makes FINAL CRISIS #1 much healthier now.
 
 
Aertho
14:40 / 09.06.08
While we're on the subject of SS, anyone have their issue of Zatanna 1 handy?

During the seance, Prince Ra-Mun discusses a war in heaven. Can anything related be inferred?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:53 / 09.06.08
Well, it probably refers to the New Gods over in Mister Miracle, so yes. I imagine there is a connection, since Final Crisis pours from the same well.
 
 
andrewdrilon
15:32 / 09.06.08
Grant Morrison on Final Crisis #1

Check it out!
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
16:52 / 09.06.08
NRAMA: Fair enough. Moving on, your portrayal of Dr. Light really played up a specific side of him, somewhere between sexual predator and serious horndog. You setting him up for some bad stuff that readers won’t feel guilty about when they cheer for it happening?

GM: There’s certainly that aspect to it. Once you’ve had the image of Dr. Light hammering away at Sue Dibny’s ruptured rear end burned into your neurons, it’s hard to write him as one more cackling gimmick villain.


Umm... going to have to go for 'quoted without comment' on that one.
 
 
vajramukti
16:53 / 09.06.08
looks like a nice old scandal brewing for dc editorial. and it's long overdue, one must say.
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
18:12 / 09.06.08
Revamped www.grantmorrison.com site coming according to the interview.

Very cool. May-haps we can finely guilt trip or brow beat him into finishing "pop magick" before we are all dust if there is a message board component.

The Masses want their goddamn honey!
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
18:14 / 09.06.08
http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=e6i2WRreARo

for clarrification
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
18:21 / 09.06.08
no offense, but screw the industry rumor and scandal BS. I could care less about that unless it's the sort of thing where dc gang-rapes an artist or writer's children for being late with work or burnings their royalty check while laughing maniacally.


Pirate Jim say, "I just wants me good comics! Arrgg!"
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:25 / 09.06.08
I might at an earlier stage in this long, long, painful eighty years of life have done a Mark Millar joke at this point but, really, that would feel a little cheap and tawdry, given that it turns out that the fuel driving the creative furnace actually is non-consensual backdoor love. At this point, it must be a race to see whether Anal Crisis can really hit its stride before Millar gets his hands back on Intimate Sex-Men for Marvel and really puts Storm through a few changes. At last! The true story of why she doesn't like tight spaces!

Oh, God.
 
 
Mario
22:54 / 09.06.08
Morrison has a new interview on Newsarama:

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080609-MorrisonFC01.html

He not only answers a lot of basic questions, but he's re-ignited my interest.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:08 / 09.06.08
And mine!

TRY FOR BACKSEID!
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
05:02 / 10.06.08
Hey, I'm amazed no-one has linked to this interview yet.

Genesis- Jesus, He Knows Me.
 
 
Spaniel
08:09 / 10.06.08
Stop now.

Mario, pay attention
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:20 / 10.06.08
Kalibakpipe?
 
 
Mario
09:46 / 10.06.08
Sorry about that. Brain wasn't fully engaged last night.

I did like the bit about Darkseid falling back through time...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:39 / 10.06.08
I'm also interested in the idea of how conscious Boss Dark Side is that he is Darkseid, presumably it's that failing flesh suit that is the only thing standing between the world as it is now and the brutalist future of Rock of Ages. In that 'Darkseid IS', at the moment it's more 'Darkseid ISN'T, at the mo, ask again in a couple of issues'.
 
 
Chew On Fat
12:15 / 10.06.08
Having read the latest Morrison interview, specifically the bit about Dark-seid falling back through time, are we to surmise that Superman has asked Dark-Sod to call him 'Clark'?
 
 
The Natural Way
12:52 / 10.06.08
I know. Bit weird that. During sexy time, was it?
 
 
Mario
13:17 / 10.06.08
I don't think that the narrator in DCU#0 is Darkseid. It's clearly Barry, going from cosmic to mortal.

The falling figure is Darkseid, tho.
 
 
Chew On Fat
14:42 / 10.06.08
That's good value for my 50c then. Hours of reading.

I'm going to have to read the damn thing one more time.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
15:16 / 10.06.08
GM: Again, bear in mind thatCountdown only finished last month so Final Crisis was already well underway long before Countdown and although I’ve tried to avoid contradicting much of the twists and turns of that book as I can with the current Final Crisis scripts, the truth is, we were too far down the road of our own book to reflect everything that went on in Countdown, hence the disconnects that online commentators, sadly, seem to find more fascinating than the stories themselves.

...cracks me up in light of some of our discussions and arguments in this thread.
 
  

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