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Final Crisis

 
  

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Rachel Evil McCall
17:19 / 01.06.08
Yep, somebody else later pointed out to me that it's Godfrey.

Still looks like Sharpton, though.
 
 
The Natural Way
19:20 / 01.06.08
Has anyone mentioned how cool the whole '1011' stuff was? I coulda told you it meant deicide from the moment I'd read the previw pages. Really cool.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
20:42 / 01.06.08
Who else is hoping the Martian Manhunter stays dead?

I never liked him.
 
 
Mario
20:56 / 01.06.08
It just occured to me:

10 11 could be considered a binary coding for 2 3.
 
 
the Fool
00:38 / 02.06.08
This has every indication that Superman knows what he's talking about. He's giving a report on what this actually means and that the Justice League are going to take action. He's saying this for the benefit of those in the room who aren't familiar with the New Gods. We have Vixen, Red Tornado, Arsenal, and the rookie Firestorm in the room. While they may be familiar with the New Gods, they probably don't understand the importance of what a New God is capable of given the situation at hand.

I've re-read it and yes he 'knows' of these new gods. Its still very indifferent to a group of people he considered friends and colleages. The JLA was called in to Big Barda's murder scene in DotNG as well. They were all present. The Flash and Wonder Woman were present at Orion's 'final' fight with Darksied.

To have him bring up that he saw most of the New Gods die is irrelevant because there are obviously factions of the New Gods still around if they've killed Orion like they have done in this issue.

He saw Orion die. He watched the fight between him and Darksied and watched him wander off to die. I think that might be relevant to the discussion at hand (I saw him die and know who killed him). For that matter so did Flash and WW. Also that all the major evil gods of Apokalips are dead is irrelevant? See a pretty major point...

Superman knows who these people are, he's just giving a report on the New Gods. There is no indication that he doesn't know the New Gods, but rather he's just giving a briefing over what the death of Orion might potentially mean to the overall scheme of things.

There is also no indication that he's been a friend, teammate and companion to the new gods and had just been witness to their genoside. To top this off he knows who committed the genoside of the new gods (it was the source directing the Infinity Man).

Anyway. I'm letting it go now. Its just the seemingly jarring shift in continuity that has bugged me. I've faith that JGJ and GM will deliver the goods...
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
01:09 / 02.06.08
what if - and that's a major IF - DarkSeid winning the war had all the memories of the New Gods wiped from earthlings' brains? stupid resource, but not that stretching at all.
 
 
andrewdrilon
09:00 / 02.06.08
Anyone remember JLA: Earth 2? In that (excellent) graphic novel, the story used the contrast between the "evil" universe of the Crime Syndicate and the "good" universe of the DCU to delineate some kind of moral physics that define each universe.

Thus, in the Crime Sydicate's world, "Even good deeds go bad here," Batman says, which corresponds to Owlman's statement that "Their word 'good' is our word 'evil'," and so on--implying that in the regular DCU, moral physics (don't know how else to say it) in inherently skewed to good. Which is why the JLA always wins, Truth Justice and Good Values are bound to triumph in the end, etcetera.

This may be going off on an unrelated tangent, but could the philosophical underpinnings described in the Earth 2 OGN be the crux behind the Final Crisis tagline "The Day Evil Won"--I mean, it implies that Evil has never really won the day, and due to Dark Side winning The War In Heaven, perhaps the narrative morality of the DCU has shifted?
 
 
Spaniel
09:27 / 02.06.08
Er, yeah. I always assumed Final Crisis would be riffing on that stuff. I also assumed that everyone else would have picked up on it and that nobody was talking about it because it was just so obvious.

Assuming, of course, makes an ass out of u and me
 
 
Spaniel
09:32 / 02.06.08
And, no, Darkseid didn't wipe everyone's brains. That's just silly. The problems with Superman's speech are just the fallout from Grant's attempts to frame the New Gods as proper gods - mysterious, otherworldly and superhard - and get in a little exposition.

C'mon, guys, let's stop picking over that stuff. We're having a Barbelith at its worst moment.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:39 / 02.06.08
I know I'm a bit out of touch with Barbelith tastes these days, but I'm still a little surprised that more people aren't saying "Come on - this was just bollocks!" It's not that I'm averse to Morrison's current work at DC per se - the latest All-Star Superman is another cracker, and Batman is fun and feels exciting right now even if it's been patchy up until now (The Resurrection Of Doing A Crossover By The Numbers), and I have a few doubts about where it's going.

Final Crisis is just a mess: it's quite accurate to say that it doesn't matter whether or not one has read Countdown, 52 or Geoff Johns' Multicolor Simplistic Analogy Corps. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter in the sense that either way, this comic is crammed with ideas that are neither coherently introduced or stimulating in themselves. In places I can't work out whether it's the art that's the problem - the pages featuring Kamandi the Last Boy (whose identity I know only because of interviews in which Morrison has made much of the First Boy/Last Boy cleverness) are 100% lost on me, in terms of who is talking to who, what's happening, and why I should care.

I quite liked the Mirror Master's "There's a time and a place" line, but that's pretty much it.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:48 / 02.06.08
As for what the fuck Barry Allen has to do with anything, and how he - whoever he is - is going to be stirred into a story that already feels overfilled...

We're having a Barbelith at its worst moment.

"Ell oh ell." In the sense that some people are reacting to whatever nonsense Morrison has phoned in at the behest of DC editorial as if it contained teh secret knowledge (code for 23!)?
 
 
Spaniel
10:20 / 02.06.08
Whether you think it's phoned in nonsense or not, trying to explain away, in story terms, the very minor problems with Superman's speech is an exercise in extreme pointlessness.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
12:44 / 02.06.08
It's curious, though. Was it Grant's decision to write it like that or did he have editorial influence telling him to throw in some exposition so that they could sell this thing as TPB in airports? Given the media attention of Civil War, I wonder if DC is hoping this can have widespread appeal, etc.

It's all the more curious, because two New Gods were IN the JLA at one time. The way they have portrayed the JLA members is that it's all one big family behind the scenes and everyone knows everyone. Now suddenly there is no continuity of major knowledge.

Pretty odd.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
12:55 / 02.06.08
i don't if i read it here or in a CBR review, but are we supposed to think the dimension-falling guy from DCU #0 is Darkseid rather than Barry Allen?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:55 / 02.06.08
Only if we are supposed to be somewhat simple, I ween. Which, possibly, we are. I don't think Darkseid was ever invited to call Superman "Clark", just for starters.


I'm really impressed by the dedication with which DC are cleaving to the path of making their gigantic crossover completely incomprehensible if you didn't read an itself incomprehensible series of comics twenty years ago, which was itself subsequently sort of scribbled over by Zero Hour. For all Civil War's many faults, it was pretty easy to understand the issues at stake and you didn't need an extensive understanding of the history of Typeface to get what was going on, and the awful stuff about Captain Marvel could largely be avoided.
 
 
andrewdrilon
14:28 / 02.06.08
I'm really impressed by the dedication with which DC are cleaving to the path of making their gigantic crossover completely incomprehensible if you didn't read an itself incomprehensible series of comics twenty years ago

I wouldn't necessarily describe it as incomprehensible. I just handed the first issue to my 15-year-old cousin, whose only real exposure to comics was the World of Warcraft series Wildstorm's been doing, and he seemed to be cool with it. His reaction was, basically, that while he may not have understood everything that went on in the comic, it looked like it was gonna be a really cool story, and he wanted to know more. He also mentioned that the death of Martian Manhunter (who he knew from the cartoon) was scary, and he was wondering how the Justice League would deal with it. This was before I even explained to him what little I knew from the first issue--Dark Side, New Gods, The Monitors, etcetera.

So I feel a lot of things can be picked up contextually in the first issue. I don't feel Final Crisis is as obtuse as a lot of people might think; it's just not yet done. It's a story, after all, and some set-up is integral to a good one.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:54 / 02.06.08
i don't if i read it here or in a CBR review, but are we supposed to think the dimension-falling guy from DCU #0 is Darkseid rather than Barry Allen?

Ah, don't remind me about Barry Allen's return! Because the only thing worse than Repetitively Masturbatory Talking Heads Justice League would be Repetitively Masturbatory Talking Heads Justice League starring Boring Republican Square-Jaws (well, even more so).

I read through this two or three times when I bought it, but I don't think I'd really be bothered to again. Occasionally action figure porn can be enjoyable, though.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:17 / 02.06.08
>> Final Crisis is just a mess: it's quite accurate to say that it doesn't matter whether or not one has read Countdown, 52 or Geoff Johns' Multicolor Simplistic Analogy Corps. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter in the sense that either way, this comic is crammed with ideas that are neither coherently introduced or stimulating in themselves.

It does indeed seem that the writing of FC has been, to a large degree, the product of much tamptering/input/requirements/demands from DC editorial. It's clear that Morrison actually wrote all the dialogue and the actual pages, but I get the sense that about 30-40% of it was editorially dictated to be crammed in there. This was also hinted at in a recent mild brough-haha that Rich Johnston mentioned in his rumor column, where Bendis cockily said something akin to 'everyone in the industry knows what's happening with "his" [Morrison's] book Final Crisis' and the implication was suggested that Bendis' comment meant that the content of the book was largely editorially dictated. I get the impression about 60% of it is still Morrison in terms of plot, ideas, direction and such, but undeniably, it's editorially mandated stuff, it seems, thus providing an explanation why All-Star Supes and his Batman run could be so terrific and FINAL CRISIS #1 could be such a mixed bag.

J.G. Jones also commented, at a recent con, to a fan who remarked about the slow pacing of FC #1, words to the effect of 'Things really come to a head in issue 3, and Grant is doing something very specific and intentional with his pacing here', leading some to feel like 'oh, in that case, ok' and others to get bitchy about 'it takes til issue 3 for stuff to come to a head?!? complain complain, etc.' and so forth.
 
 
vajramukti
18:17 / 02.06.08
vis a vis the whole superman speech: it's plain fact that grant says he wrote this in 2006, with the intention that the new gods should be on ice for those two years so he could reintroduce them fresh. in that context, superman's speech makes more sense. from the perspective of this script, death of the new gods, and countdown never happened. and it's probably for the best. I can post the link to where he says it if you like.

as for 'editorial mandate' do please point out where this is taking place, because it reads like morrison to me. if it doesn't walk and talk like a regular dc cosmic event, then as far as I'm concerned that's a good thing, because most of them have been shit.

did dc editorial say : "do the lanterns like CSI", "we really need terrible turpin, kamandi and anthro in there" "a few pages of caveman shit would be nice, grant" and saying he's following up on the montior shit from countdown doesn't hold water either, for the reason stated above.

maybe he's just doing what J.G. and others have been saying he's doing. I'd rather see a carefull build that pays off later, than see them blow their wad in the first issue, like secret invasion has apparently done.
 
 
Mario
19:23 / 02.06.08
I think that the biggest problem with Final Crisis has little to do with the book itself, but with the context it's been forced into. There have been so many pre-loaded plotlines (DONG, Countdown, etc) that it's nigh-impossible to treat the book as a "ding an sich".

Rather than being part 1 of a slow-building mini, it's been tasked with being part 53 of a long-running story. People have been waiting for a payoff, and that's simply not what this series is about.

I've decided that the only stories I need to make sense of this event are Seven Soldiers:Mister Miracle, and parts of Brave New World. The rest happened on Earth-Not-FC
 
 
Mario
19:57 / 02.06.08
Oh, and I found that interview you were talking about, vajramukti.
 
 
Janean Patience
20:56 / 02.06.08
Yeah, this was just a mess. Sparks of Morrison but a whole issue of breathless, incoherent cosmic stuff. It felt no more distinctive than DC Universe.

Morrison got put in a blender with Johns, Rucka and Waid for 52. It's like he came out as an amalgam, a generic superhero writer.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
02:47 / 03.06.08
I wouldn't go that far. For Final Crisis, he's writing a particular kind of story, one which doesn't feel particularly personal -- but I wouldn't call him a generic superhero writer.
 
 
PatrickMM
05:46 / 03.06.08
For me at least, the first issue of Final Crisis feels more personal and concerned with Grant's thematic interest than most of his JLA run. He's always fluctuated between personal projects and corporate stuff, this is more towards the corporate side, but it feels very much of a piece with the mythology he developed in Seven Soldiers and 52. And, I think it's pretty ironic for Bendis to talk about being a cog in the corporate machine when he's totally abandoned writing anything but Marvel U books.

It baffles me that people are dissatisfied with the issue for not having enough happen, I felt like there was a ton of interesting stuff to think about, and just because there's no big fight scenes doesn't mean nothing happened. I think there's room for criticism, but on the whole, it's a really solid first issue.

And, I'd agree with the people who say that it's not exactly inaccessible. I think it's easy to forget how exciting it was when you're first reading comics and get a window into this huge universe. You might not know everything that's going on, but trying to figure out who all these people are and what their backstories are is half the fun.
 
 
The Natural Way
06:44 / 03.06.08
Yes, the response surprises me, too. There's the strong whiff of Grant's JLA stories around FC. Snapshots of personalities and personal moments, combined with big, cosmic, out-there superstuff. By the time the lloigor are chowing down on the Earth in issue 3, hopefully people might be singing a different song.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:20 / 03.06.08
Sense of wonder.

Grant's most personal work yet.

Eggy in a basket.

Starfire dressed up like a trollop.

On the plus side, I have to read the thing now, so that's a win for DC editorial.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:58 / 03.06.08
By the time the lloigor are chowing down on the Earth in issue 3, hopefully people might be singing a different song.

'We Call Upon The Buster To Explain', perhaps.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:15 / 03.06.08
Well, possibly "Hang on a second, haven't we already seen this at the end of 52? (Eggy in a basket remix)"
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
16:32 / 03.06.08
Actually, 'We Call Upon The Buster To Explain' would work better, vis-a-vis the King's earlier, 'The Busting of a Conquerer!' -- making it a thematic sequel to OMAC and thereby doubling its Kirby Quotient.

I wonder if Kirby had even an inkling how much zombification his works would undergo following his death?
 
 
The Natural Way
17:12 / 03.06.08
Well, by ish 3 Grant says the action will really ramp up and after it the world will be quite a different place. As far as I understand it, it'll be the point at which Evil wins and claims Earth and all the super's asses. The fallout of this accounts for the hiatus between the first half of FC and the second half. So I think the Zenith analogy might be accurate: dark gods taking over and remaking the world in their own image - that sort of thing.

A glance at the Wonderwoman cover to 3 tells me this isn't reaching.

Bus' it.
 
 
The Falcon
21:16 / 03.06.08
DCU #0 was hard to follow, much of it in the "give a fuck" vein, but that is Darkseid falling. Because the two planets, one nice, one naughty. And the teeth. These are not the teeth of a Flash; I'd go so far as to say that omniscient narrator Barry Allen is not - at this point - incarnate (cf: the lightning flash over the moon, with the red sky) but has undergone the process of becoming self-aware. A self-aware universe, you might say. Haters might want to take that into account before Eternity's big brother needs a word.

But I really think it's a patent untruth that FC#1 was incomprehensible, when - especially - such lengths are gone to to clarify who the New Gods are, what the Monitors do. I think it's basically a short-circuit in the brain of most superhero comics readers who - doubtless and correctly - think Marvel characters are either a) more recognisable or b) better or indeed c) both and have only recollection of seeing Effigy or Hal Jordan or whoever in depressingly dull and bollocks comics or none whatsoever. "The appearance of Captain Cold made this comic incomprehensible + not worth my time(!)" - playing percentages, you'd be right. (That said, I'd also recommend Catwoman v.3 #21 as a good, readable, Captain Cold-featuring, comic.)

However. Firstly, I'd like to suggest the appearance of warehouses in the shipping district - like in the Wire Season 2! - one of which is prominently enumerated '23' does lend some verity to 1011=23, fwiw. I pronounce it "ten-eleven" which sounds suitably space police. (How do you read binary in your comics, B'lith? the Solaris stuff was a bit of a distraction to me - I think it's probably meant to be like digital breakup there vs. "NOOOonezerozerooneoneone")

I just think the comic did great with scale - the segues from street (which - I'd like more GMo street on this basis) through to exterior of the chamber holding the Orrery of Worlds were solid, fuck a Source Wall, and the end-up with Solomon sotto voceing, probably to Darkseid judging by his wiki entry, but out the fourth wall while you the decent reader are ulitmately left trapped inside poor Nix Uotan ("No god" + a play on 'Uatu' = good work, in my book) embedded in, shot to, the very bottom of this superstructure, fearing the worst... I thought that was pretty clever. I also think this is going to be a proper reagent with Seven Soldiers, if you're into that sort of thing - the lady Anthro saves looks an awful lot like Alix Harrower in her pre-Bulleteer days, so I'ma go out on this one and suggest he'll be Aurakles' dad, the flame of superdom having been lit. The Kamandi scene is - look, you don't even have to know the kid's name, everyone's seen Planet of the Apes surely. It's a kid from the (imminent?!?!!!) end of civilisation speaking to one from the beginning: Anthro has painted himself like the porcelain man in the magic chair. This appears to have had the effect of inducing temporal distortion or prescience. You don't even have to know Metron is a time traveller. There's other stuff with the flame motif a'wy and Martian/God of War (DOA) but I thought it was - given event comics do tend to be clippy by nature - maybe not entirely bravado, but a confident start.

Only time will tell us who is the buster.
 
 
The Natural Way
22:25 / 03.06.08
Oh, Flyboy's definitely the buster.

I thought those segues were great too, BTW. And that wicked moneyshot panel of the alpha lanterns sealing off the Earth. One panel! So great. It gave them so much presence.

I also have to agree with you on the Nix thing. Here and elsewhere, people are holding up the final sequence as an example of impenetrability - well I say bollocks to that. I totally understood what was going on after flicking back a few pages, and what would a Grant book be without the odd scene to make the head scratch?

Anyway, you wait and see busteroonies: it's gonna be lloigor time in just a couple of months. A slow ramping up to a massive super-fuckup.
 
 
FinderWolf
22:28 / 03.06.08
also, why would Metron's chair, even in an epic battle, end up in a trash heap on a hill somewhere (or wherever that was)? Just seems so...mundane. Unless that's the point, of course, which it may very well be. (and no one else noticed it/took it up til then? No rowdy teenagers at the dump messing about with the Moebius Chair?)
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:39 / 03.06.08
And that wicked moneyshot panel of the alpha lanterns sealing off the Earth.

Alan Davis. The Nail. JLA 1,000,000. Green Lantern containing the exploding Solaris.

Eggy in a basket.

Having read this now, it's really not very good, is it? The Turpin/Darkseid bit was absolutely standard George "NUH MY BRAIN!!!!!! Show him what darkness is, my dehumanised minions! MUUUUHHHH BRAAAAIINNNN!" stuff. Libra is absolute cods already. Doctor Light's editorially mandated rapiness was quite funny, but the CSI:Oa stuff was arse, and Monitors are not and will never be cool. The murder of Martian Manhunter was quite a giggle, though - it won't stick, but it's good solid fun and only slightly weakened by Martian Manhunter always being the one who gets shat on (Despero, Starro, White Martians, White Martians again, you name it).

Next month - Turpin dressed up like a trollop.
 
 
The Natural Way
23:06 / 03.06.08
This really is very subjective isn't it? I don'i understand why the monitors can't be cool, or why the CSI lanterns were shit.

But I don't read many superhero comics, so maybe I don't have a frame of reference.
 
  

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