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Final Crisis

  
  

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Our Lady Has Left the Building
12:23 / 30.05.08
Grant's JLA run finished with the New Gods saying that humanity had taken it's first steps towards replacing them, based on the fake news about Batman going round a few months ago I expect that Earth is going to become the planet of the New Gods, if only for about ten minutes. Or Anthro seems to be working out something in the dirt, is humanity going to have an Anti-Anti-Life equation stored in it from prehistory which will be accessed in the modern day to defeat Darkseid and bring the New Gods (and Jonn) back to life. Considering that Jonn didn't even get a speaking part at his own death I assume he'll be back before the series is through, and maybe they can bring back all the Heroes killed in 'Infinite Crisis' and Sue Dibny too. Or maybe she was just hiding in the Amazon for a couple of years?

Anyway...

I did enjoy this issue, kicks things off nicely, though I was a bit surprised that Superman seemed to be talking as though the New Gods were a myth that no-one really knew much about, despite having fought alongside them on numerous occasions.
 
 
FinderWolf
12:49 / 30.05.08
Pretty cool first issue.

>> It's good, but the comic is in story build-up mode.

This is very true. Jones' art is beautiful (except for the first panel on the page where Luthor says 'Do I have to say it one more time; you may have impressed the rank and file with such and such...' which looks like it was inked by a fill-in artist or something (and are those rumors about Shane Davis providing some fill-in art for certain pages in the middle-to-end of the series true...?).

I dug the pages of Caveman dialogue with balloons saying "!" and "!!" and little scraggly black marks indicating displeasure/frustration. Loved the bit at the end where Anthro meets Kamandi - typical (in a fun way) Morrison time travel play ("Metron gave you a weapon - where is it?") And why does Anthro suddenly have Metron markings painted on his face in the final panel of that page, when he didn't have them one or two panels before?

Manhunter's death... eeehhh. Seemed a bit too incidental, given the history of the character. Many reviewers have commented on how eerily similar the villain plot (meaning the Libra plot, at this point) is to Bendis' bit with The Hood over in New Avengers - they were probably written around the same time so I doubt it's intentional or more than an uncanny coincidence, y'know?

Turpin was great here. I sure hope he didn't get eaten by mutated Anti-Life Children of the Corn.

I am kind of amused by something actually having mattered from the abominbale COUNTDOWN series. So this one Monitor is a hero but the Big Bad Monitor Jury thinks he's bad news, and there's an evil Monitor pulling the strings manipluating everyone (and he's prob. friends with Dark Side)...? Okay. Love the Orrery of Worlds.

I feel sad that Orion's death gets more media attention that J'Onn J'Onzz. Although, the first thing I thought of (as with many fans, I see online) is that when J'Onn returns inevitably in 2 years, he'll show up as Classic Martian Manhunter and not Bad Costume Trying-To-Be-Badass M.M.
 
 
FinderWolf
12:58 / 30.05.08
>> Who is the guy in the last page? My bet is a new Orion, but I'm hoping for the original, Kirby OMAC.

He's definitely the Monitor who has been de-powered and made flesh. Note the haircut. (once again, the human/superhuman dichotomy at play here)

As for Supes talking about the New Gods as if they haven't seen them much, I think this was Morrison trying to restore more of a sense of wonder to the New Gods... like they were they exquisitely mysterious alien beings who only show up every once in a while, and the JLA is awed by their power (as opposed 'those guys that guest star in DC Comics with low or high sales every 2 months and just had a shitty miniseries about them by Jim Starlin).
 
 
FinderWolf
13:02 / 30.05.08
>> I expect that Earth is going to become the planet of the New Gods, if only for about ten minutes.

Yes, we've been told many times in interviews that the end of #4 of #5 of FC will have some big change in the status quo. (Meltzer is writing the 'heroes on the eve of what they know will be their FINAL BATTLE, SERIOUSLY!!! which should be the end of issue 4, I believe) It honestly sounds a bit too much like HOUSE OF M to me (another Morrison/Bendis similarity here), where 2/3 of the way through a Big Miniseries THE WHOLE WORLD IS REWRITTEN and it will of course be almost entirely back to usual by the final issue, with changes that will SHOCK THE WORLD FOREVER!!! (!) They're also actually stopping printing FC for 1 month in-between 4 and 5, with various FC specials taking its place.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:06 / 30.05.08
>> Re: the fleshsuit debate -- don't forget that the 7S #1 "Cryptic Crossword" suggests a more nuanced interpretation of how the "Gods" may walk among us by comparing them to the spirits of Haiti: Life Or Anti-life (LOA).

Also, to get all magicky about it, in addition to the LOA thing you point out here, a friend was just reminding me that admist all the Mayan 2012 spiritual stuff, all that Mayan stuff literally talks about a "Fourth World" and a "Fifth World" and the upcoming "Fifth Sun." I wonder if Kirby ever heard about that stuff back before he gave name to the DC Fourth World...
 
 
doctoradder
13:21 / 30.05.08
>>... all that Mayan [2012] stuff literally talks about a "Fourth World" and a "Fifth World" and the upcoming "Fifth Sun."

*KA-POP* (Head explodes off neck.) Wow... that's an oddly synergistic confluence.

Some googling reveals this odd nugget...

[An] extraordinary Hopi prophecy was first published in a mimeographed manuscript that circulated among several Methodist and Presbyterian churches in 1959. Some of the prophecies were published in 1963 by Frank Waters in The Book of the Hopi...

*snip*

"The Fourth World shall end soon, and the Fifth World will begin. This the elders everywhere know. The Signs over many years have been fulfilled, and so few are left."

* snip *

Does anybody know when the whole 2012 / Hopi prophecy thing started percolating into pop consciousness? What are the odds that Kirby could've encountered this stuff? At the very least, it's an interesting explanation for the mysterious origin of the "Fourth World" term.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:39 / 30.05.08
Might it not make slightly more sense that he heard the enormously common terms "First World" and "Third World", and then thought "Hey, Fourth World!".

Not wishing to be obvious, but, y'know.
 
 
Signifier
13:46 / 30.05.08
As I understand, the term "Fourth World" first appeared on the fourth issues of New Gods, Forever People and Mister Miracle (and Kirby's... seventh issue of Jimmy Olsen). Might've just meant "fourth issue" at first, and then stuck as an overall term.
 
 
doctoradder
13:50 / 30.05.08
Sure, anything's possible... but the "First World" / "Third World" thing refers to politico-economic realities that don't have much to do with the "Big Ideas" of Kirby's 4th World. (Not that anything as plain as logic would stop him from using a phrase that sounded cool, but nonetheless...)

According to Mark Evanier's Jack FAQ, Len Wein floated the "4th issue" theory, Steve Sherman supported the "Third World" (politico-economics term) theory, while Evanier (who worked for Jack at the time) doubts both versions and points out that, considering Jack's scattershot creativity & dodgy memory, the "real" origin and meaning of the term is probably impossible to pin down.

However: It's pretty clear that Kirby had at least a passing acquaintance with the von Danikanesque "ancient astronauts" meme... I'm basically wondering if references to the Hopi / Mayan "4th Worlds" might have shown up in any early '70s sources where Kirby could have logically encountered them.
 
 
Mario
14:01 / 30.05.08
The ancient astronauts thing informed Kirby's ETERNALS run over at Marvel, but it's highly unlikely that it affected his take on the New Gods (although it's clear that Morrison is using the idea)

The origin of the term "Fourth World" is unclear. Mark Evanier, who was Jack's assistant at the time, doesn't even know, but he's said the following:

"I can give you about eleven answers to this and if you'd asked Jack eight times, you'd have gotten eight more. Len Wein, who worked at DC at the time, says that it was a cover blurb intended to only appear on the covers of the fourth issues. It referred to the fact that every issue of a Kirby comic was like a world unto itself; ergo, each #4 was a 'Fourth World.' Folks then adopted it to refer to the whole epic that flowed betwixt Jack's books. Meanwhile, Steve Sherman — who worked with me as Jack's assistant at the time — recalls Jack coming up with it as a variation on the term, 'The Third World,' as used in a socio-economic context. It was Jack's way of transcending that term, as Jack transcended everything.

That may be true but I don't recall that. Apparently, Jack also told a few folks that he considered the material his fourth universe in comics. The Marvel books would have been 'Kirby's Third World' and I've never quite gotten clear what the first two were. There are other answers, even less credible. Personally, I buy none of them. I don't think there was any logic behind it, at least when Jack first used it.. I think it was just a term that popped into his head and he liked the sound of it. Later on, he came up with several different retro-active explanations."
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
17:47 / 30.05.08
The slight problem with the Libra storyline is that he's offering the villains exactly the same deal as Neron did in Underworld Unleashed, just without the 'losing your soul' tag. Or maybe Superboy Emo punched the wall of Heaven and it didn't happen. Are we supposed to think Libra is working for Darkseid? I can't help but think he's balance for a reason... And does anyone think that Mirror Master is going to stay evil for once or, like usual when Morrison writes him, he's going to end up helping out the goodies?
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
18:32 / 30.05.08
A slightly bigger problem is that he's offering the the villains exactly the same deal as The Hood in New Avengers, as has already been pointed out. They even videotaped J'onn's execution just like Tigra's beating. Then there's the problem of why A to D list villains would even give Libra the time of day. The Secret Society from Infinite Crisis was a professional and meticulously planned operation headed up by the best known talent in villainy, Libra's a wiseass in a titty-bar with the most inane sales pitch since 'Do the Dew' ('Okay, so the superheroes always win because they're the good guys, right, but if everything were backwards then you'd win! And I grant wishes!')

Infinite Crisis was far from perfect. Far. But it did at least feel from start to finish like a mega-event. There was enough build up from Ted Kord's death to IC #1 that the stakes were clear and the battle lines drawn by the time the first issue hit, with sufficient wiggle-room for some surprises along the way. Right now I have no fucking clue how Death of the New Gods links up with Final Crisis- Darkseid was the only Fourth Worlder left alive at the end and yet the whole of Apokalips seems to be alive and well in shiny new flesh-duds. Superman fails to mention that he personally saw the New Gods die, Darkseid absorb their souls and a whole mess of stuff with the Anti-Life Equation and the Source Wall that I've forgotten or repressed.
Have things gotten so bad that I'm looking back on Infinite Crisis as a high point in the DCU metanarrative?
 
 
LDones
18:43 / 30.05.08
God, JG Jones' work is fucking gorgeous in this. And so is Alex Sinclair's. Tremendous quality, the best of Jones' work I've seen.

The title of the issue on the final page, DOA: The God of War, is also the bottom-crawl on the news on the TV in the last panel - which I didn't quite get until I made the (very obvious) Mars/J'onn connection in addition to the more literal Orion one - Mars, god of war, and fire, and destruction. Symbolic murders to either help crush the urge to resist & to go to battle against the incoming evil gods - or just to invoke fire and guided destruction for the sake of war.

I didn't have a clue what that last page meant until someone explained to me that it was Nix Uotan, the exiled Monitor, waking up mortal on New Earth.

Morrison's Darkseid continues to be fucking terrifying, just hopelessness and misery incarnate - sweating and decaying and perverting.

Other than that, it's a hell of a way to off the Martian Manhunter, in 3 panels. Cavalier enough to make me think it's a fake-out, but then the character's certainly been handled poorly enough in recent years that it'd qualify as a fictional mercy kill. The 'Damrung' phone brand got a chuckle out of me.

Feels very much like an intro to one of Morrison's old JLA stories would, which I really dig. More slick & big-budget, though - less poppy & messy.

I'm eager to see if Morrison can instill a Big Event Comic like this with a level of human subtext and tasteful allegory similar to his other recent work. If not, it'll still be awfully pretty to look at.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:38 / 30.05.08
>> Superman fails to mention that he personally saw the New Gods die,

True indeed.

I like your observations re the Mars-avatar significance of the dual-deaths of J'Onn and Orion - hadn't thought of that. Nice one!! eliminate the warrior resistance symbols first (even though he's from Mars, though, J'Onn hasn't exactly been Number One Badass Warrior in his career, despite DC's attempts to make him all dark 'n' gritty "I'm distrustful of humans now and have a bad costume" thing)
 
 
LDones
19:50 / 30.05.08
>>> Superman fails to mention that he personally saw the New Gods die,

>True indeed.

I think it's safe to say that Final Crisis may be best read (and is perhaps intended to be read) while completely ignoring DC's Countdown or Death of the New Gods series.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
19:57 / 30.05.08
That's the best news I've heard all week. Now, let's put on our slick supersuits and party.
 
 
vajramukti
21:49 / 30.05.08
well I think we know for certain that this issue at least was written in 2006, so I think you can skip the garbage with a clear conscience, cause you don't need it. two years of lead time and DC still couldn't tie it in properly. it's just sad, really.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:54 / 30.05.08
There's a decent review of it over at Savage Critics that talks a bit about how much smoother the whole thing is if you completely ignore Countdown and Death of the New Gods. I didn't read either and it's coming across decently (if pretty much textbook Crisis-writing).
 
 
garyancheta
22:49 / 30.05.08
I think people may be misinterpreting Dan Turpin's role. Out of all the characters, I don't think he's a reincarnated New God, but rather the human touchstone for the miraculous thing that are going to occur. Remember, Dan Turpin, as interpreted by many other writers and artists (most notably by Bruce Timm in his Superman Series and his JL series) as Jack Kirby. If anything, Morrison is giving us sort of a flesh suit for the voice of Jack Kirby, wandering around the DCUniverse trying to figure out what happened to his New Gods and encountering a lot of different people along the way.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
23:33 / 30.05.08
That's an astute reading, Gary. Hopefully it'll pan out that way (and I'd forgotten about the Timm version of Turpin), rather than something along the lines of the abortive Countdown's use of Jimmy Olsen.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
23:54 / 30.05.08
nice one, LDones.

also, Mars is the fourth world in our solar system.

i kind of always saw Kirby's Fourth World as the 'real' planet[s] in-between Earth and Mars, only you could only reach it [them] via Boomtube.
 
 
The Natural Way
10:47 / 31.05.08
I don't know about the Turpin thing. Kirby, yes, good, but the question is: historically, does Darkseid say that '...endure...blah' stuff? If he does then it seems blindingly obvious that Orion's fizzing around inside him. That 'My father used to say that' line wasn't a personal moment- it was a clue.
 
 
The Natural Way
10:49 / 31.05.08
Also, did anyone pick up on the Vandal savage as baddy caveman thing? Turns out it's tru fax (see interview w/ JG etc at newsarama).
 
 
Mario
11:21 / 31.05.08
Honestly, I didn't even realize it was a mystery. Seemed pretty obvious to me (and is one of the reasons why I think Anthro may end up becoming Aurakles)
 
 
Mario
11:27 / 31.05.08
With regards to the Turpin=Orion thing, here;s what I wrote on another board:

"I'm not sure I buy it, because it suggests that the New Gods will be incarnated in pre-existing characters, and I just don't see that happening. If that was the case, Darkseid would have incarnated in Bruno Mannheim, instead of 'Boss Dark Side'."

And that's really the problem. Do we really want to see Lightray incarnate in Barry Allen, or Metron in Barbara Gordon? I don't see how that helps the New God OR the Hero. It makes much more sense if the flesh-suits are created from scratch, no?
 
 
the Fool
11:51 / 31.05.08
>>>>>> Superman fails to mention that he personally saw the New Gods die,

>>>True indeed.

>>I think it's safe to say that Final Crisis may be best >>read (and is perhaps intended to be read) while >>completely ignoring DC's Countdown or Death of the New >>Gods series.

It seems to contradict a lot of countdown and DotNG, and picks whatever bits it thinks works. Though countdown and DotNG didn't really work hand in hand (as they were intended to) in any event.

Orion ends up in FC in the same sort of spot but no one seems to remember the fight he just had with his dad that seemed to half blow up a city. Also that fight was witnessed by Superman and other members of the JLA if I remember correctly. The Flash (I think) went to help Orion but Superman stopped him and basically said 'no, he's dying anyway, just let our former JLA teammate wander off and die alone in the garbage'. Wow, compassion, LOL! You think Supes would at least try to do something for Orion after just witnessing the genoside of the entire New Gods and seeing him defeat darkside, or at very least make sure he doesn't go and blow up more city. Of course this all sorta contradicts the end of DotNG were Orion returned to 'life' after having his physical body destroyed in a head on confrontation with the source(which Superman witnessed) as and energy spirit self . This of course also contradicts what we see in FC #1.

It was also odd to see the JLA act like they didn't know of these 'new gods' even though Mr Miracle and Big Barda were their teammates during GMs run. They were central to the final world war III arc involving megadon. Also in DotNG Superman witnessed the death of a vast number of New Gods, including Metron and Mr Miracle personally. He also was there as the last of them were killed off and saw the source take the depopulated Apokolips and New Genesis and fuse them into a single planet. He never thinks to mention any of this? The JLA have faced Darkseid many times, so for John again to wonder if there are any 'bad gods' to go with these new gods is just odd (though Mr Stewart may not have hace the new gods personally, I'm not sure). Also the way Batman seems oblivious of these 'new gods'. He has utilised New Genesis technology many times, including mother boxes and boom tubes. Now he's like "whuh? gods what?".

Also the monitors. Event from Countdown are referenced but the setup is radically different from Countdown. I feel here it would almost be better to not have read countdown as a lead in to the monitors, where they were totaly crap. The monitors seem way more interesting in the hands of GM.

All this inconsitency sorta hampered my enjoyment of FC a bit if I'm honest. Even though Countdown was crap and DotNG ok at best, it still made me go 'but that doesn't make sense' everytime an inconsistency appeared. Also the JLA not knowing about the new gods bothered me, unless that is some deliberate thing about the new 'fifth world'.

If you haven't read countdown or DotNG yet and want to catch up before FC, don't. seriously. I wish I hadn't. Start with with DC universe 0 and save money and time in tedium!
 
 
Spaniel
12:09 / 31.05.08
mortality invades the world of myth, dead superheroes w/ Green Arrow ranting and raving at the camera... All lovely.

Why is that MFreitas and Natural are the only people here to have framed the book in this way? As far as I can see Green Arrow's rant was the key to the whole thing. We all know that Grant sees the DC A-list as "impossibly moral", so when GA starts screaming and threatening murder, and Martian Manhunter's death is employed as incidental detail, we know that something is very, very wrong indeed. Evil. has. won.

As far as I'm concerned, to have given the Martian Manhunter the death he deserves would have been a bloody crime. He'd have to die a hero, and the DCU quite clearly _isn't_ a world of heroes anymore.
 
 
Spaniel
12:12 / 31.05.08
It's Grant channeling grim and gritty, Infinite Crisis, innit?
 
 
The Natural Way
15:37 / 31.05.08
Mario, things could just be a little inconsistent, you know.
 
 
Spaniel
16:28 / 31.05.08
I haven't articulated my thoughts very well. I'll do better on the blog.
 
 
Mario
20:00 / 31.05.08
True, true. It's possible, even probable, that I'm setting the bar too high. In my defense, I've been jonesing for some old-school Morrison Kosmic Krack for a while now.

I'm sure things will pick up.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
20:38 / 31.05.08
Thing you have to remember is, this is Mozzer's Crisis on Infinite Earths -- and while that series was fun, it certainly wasn't the greatest piece of art ever (it was very much of the all your action figures being blown up school). And this is GM's Crisis with only fifty-two Earths, so the scale's a bit different.

I actually reminded me of a more high-octane, red skies version of 52, honestly -- with all the quit cuts to random groupings of characters.

Was Vandal Savage ever seen in connection with Kamandi's future, by the by? Pulling symmetry with his appearance in the Anthro section, maybe he'll show up and encounter Kamandi at the very end of this story.
 
 
garyancheta
22:50 / 31.05.08
Note what Superman actually says:

"As the GL just explained, Guardian archives describe Orion and his people as New Gods, which ought to give you some indication of the power levels we are dealing with..."

"Unforunately, Orion's murder seems to confirm some of our fears. Incidences of contact the the Gods of New Genesis and Apokolips have been on the increase"

"These are celestials capable of cracking hte planet in half and enslaving billions. Justice League condition amber."

This has every indication that Superman knows what he's talking about. He's giving a report on what this actually means and that the Justice League are going to take action. He's saying this for the benefit of those in the room who aren't familiar with the New Gods. We have Vixen, Red Tornado, Arsenal, and the rookie Firestorm in the room. While they may be familiar with the New Gods, they probably don't understand the importance of what a New God is capable of given the situation at hand.

To have him bring up that he saw most of the New Gods die is irrelevant because there are obviously factions of the New Gods still around if they've killed Orion like they have done in this issue.

Superman knows who these people are, he's just giving a report on the New Gods. There is no indication that he doesn't know the New Gods, but rather he's just giving a briefing over what the death of Orion might potentially mean to the overall scheme of things.
 
 
Rachel Evil McCall
03:36 / 01.06.08
Made the schlep out to the only comic shop I can get to today, and picked up #1. Read it twice before I got home.

I loved it.

I gushed about it on another board. This is what I said:

"IMO, it was damn good. Very dense, lots going on. A whole ton of plot points right off the bat. Very claustrophobic in most parts, a lot of enclosed things, very craped panels. A lot of playing with twos (although that could just be the way I read it. Still: Two cops, Turpin and Montoya, two sets of police figures, the Earth-bound ones and the Lanterns, two sets of Lanterns, Green and Alpha, two Green Lanterns (contacting two bodies of authority, two bodyguards at the club, two benificiaries of Metron's gift, two deaths, villains working in twos (Light and Mirror Master, Libra and the Human Flame, Light and that other guy I didn't recognize), two sets of outside forces observing (the Guardians and the Monitors), Mas y Menos, It's pretty two-riffic.). I like how Anthro and Libra almost mirror each other in a couple panels (makes sense, given exactly what both characters are doing). Was that Vandal Savage in the beginning sequence? I absolutely love the page where Stewart and Jordan are examining Orion's murder site. They have a bubble up to close it in (again with that!), and what's outside it? A Mister Miracle poster. Once again, Scott (or Shilo?) evades imprisonment. Also a very nice parallel in regards to Scott and Orion's roles in the New Genesis/Apokolips conflict: Orion is well inside, trapped mortally, and Scott is outside the violence, a conscientious objector. Metron-as-Prometheus is a very cool idea. The first and last boys meet! Dark Side is creepy. I love that the toy guns (!) at the crime scene have a picture that looks amusingly like Turpin in his Boy Commando days on the box. The evolution of the Monitors is fascinating. A classic Morrison idea, regarding the relation of fiction and reality put a new way (and much more subtly than in, say Animal Man, The Invisibles, or Seven Soldiers). The beat-down on the Z-List Titans was amusing, but very, very expected. At least the injuries didn't look fatal there. Nice cameo from Rev. Al Sharpton. Fire is very clearly a big motif here. And there's a 23 in the background!

Plus, the art is abso-fricken-lutely gorgeous. Jones done good."

Yeah. I'm embarrassingly enthusiastic about this comic.
 
 
Mario
11:48 / 01.06.08
...and that other guy I didn't recognize

Effigy, a Kyle Rayner villain.

Was that Vandal Savage in the beginning sequence?

Yes. It was verified in a panel yesterday.

Once again, Scott (or Shilo?) evades imprisonment.

Shilo. That exact poster is in the Sketchbook.

Nice cameo from Rev. Al Sharpton. Fire is very clearly a big motif here. And there's a 23 in the background!

That's not Rev. Al... That's G(lorious) Godfrey Goode. Sharper eyes than mine spotted the caption on his screen.
 
  

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