BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


The Barbelith Temple Presents: Vol 1

 
  

Page: 1(2)34567... 17

 
 
electric monk
19:51 / 18.04.07
(half-serious) Numinomicon?
 
 
betty woo
19:56 / 18.04.07
I'm not much on copyright, but I have a few people I can ask on the topic.

A two-week deadline to state intent-to-contribute seems reasonable, especially if we ask for a quick abstract/article description to help identify overlaps in advance. We're likely to have a few people who can't make the final submission deadline, but hopefully there will be some latecomers to help balance it out.
 
 
Ticker
20:01 / 18.04.07
(half-serious) Numinomicon?

Well, methinks we know a lot of names we want to stay away from and I suggest *'-nomicon' may be in the ranks.

My hope is we can find a name for it that we can make our own without linkage to specific traditions or personages. You know, since we have ejected the 'Lith for those reasons.
 
 
Olulabelle
20:25 / 18.04.07
I think a Triumvirate is a better idea than a collective for voting systems, simply because collectives can, as Quants said, become like herding cats.

However, one idea could be that Temple moderators agree or disagree the content, with of course the exception of XK since she has brought up the idea. These are people that the board trusts to moderate the Temple into a place everyone can be proud of, what's to stop that extending outwards into this journal?

Regarding cover art, asking people to create art that may well take them many hours is unfair if they are then thrown into a little Barbelith 'competition'. We have many artists here whose work surpasses much on the internet; The Fool and Bedhead to name two. It would be lovely to ask someone like that to design us cover art but we could only do that if we, in the main, accepted what we were given. Perhaps we could vote as a collective on nominating people to submit work they have done as samples, from which one artist is chosen for commission. Perhaps we could choose one artist to commission for the cover and one for the internal artwork. I would certainly not like to ask many people to create work for a vague hat-pull at the end and I would advise against this.

Regarding the name: One of the things that stands out about Barbelith is the Temple. If we are publishing something which is, in the main, written by people who frequent the Temple regularly, then it would be foolish business sense to discard the Barbelith brand - it can only gain us readers. By all means give it a sub-name, but I would argue strongly that if you publish under any other name you run the risk of becoming a back-scratching, localised peer-to-peer journal, only read by mates of Barbelith. People come to Barbelith and wish to join purely because of the Temple. I think we should at least in the first instance, acknowledge that. I think this because we are a brand, regardless of whether we wish to be. Isn't this our ideal opportunity to rebrand ourselves and position the Temple where we think it should be? Let's publish under the Temple name and make it something we can all be really proud of.

One way to do this is to call the first issue:

Barbelith, The Temple: Numinosity.

Then slowly we can phase out the 'Barbelith', when people get to know the journal.

What do people think about that?

Also, what do people think about asking people to submit work samples for consideration for choosing a cover artist? The cover artist will be chosen before he or she does the work, and will be chosen on the basis of sample work submitted to us.
 
 
Princess
20:37 / 18.04.07
I would like to write something for this. I'll come back to you a with a plan.
 
 
Olulabelle
20:55 / 18.04.07
I do think we should be really careful about art in this journal. It's very subjective.
 
 
Doc Checkmate
21:07 / 18.04.07
Here's a question: Who is this for? Is this publication going to be mainly for the benefit of its contributors, or for the benefit of its readers? Do we care primarily about the quality of the final product as its recipients will experience it, or about the process and experiences of its creators as they express themselves through it? Of course it's necessarily a mix, but which way is it leaning? It might make a difference, in terms of the standards you want to set.
 
 
The Ghost of Tom Winter
21:17 / 18.04.07
This is a great idea, XK. I'd love to submit something but I'm not exactly sure if anything I write is "Temple Quality" as I've had little posting experience.
However, I am working on an academic research paper involving “magical” topics that some might find interesting.

So how big would the end product be? And what should the average length of articles be?
 
 
Ticker
21:20 / 18.04.07
Here's a question: Who is this for? Is this publication going to be mainly for the benefit of its contributors, or for the benefit of its readers?

Well to paraphrase MC somewhere else on the board, I think we all write with half an eye on what we wish someone had written for us to read when we were 15. Or for that matter, now.
As we're not after selling the thing for profit I think we can focus on community standard.

Is the work you're submitting quality enough to represent yourself as a magical/spiritual practioner within the community?

Lula, I think we need to segregate this project a bit from the Temple mods as not all of them may want to be in this.
A system based on the mod functionality may work.

It looks like people are digging the idea of three reviewers for content. I'd suggest we have a separate layer of editor for grammar spelling patrol beyond that.

so a proposed workflow might be like:

1. A submission topic is posted to this thread.
2. A submission is received and reviewed by the Reviewers.
If problems occurs the reviewers may elect to advise the owner of the piece on areas to change and work with them rather than completely reject the piece.
3. Approved submissions are handed off to the Editors who check for grammar (within stylistic reason) spelling and do layout.
4. Proof copy is checked by Reviewers (maybe more).
5. Publication.
 
 
This Sunday
21:42 / 18.04.07
The copyright thing's not too big a hassle. So long as all parties are generally agreeable (and we all, aren't we?) the main issue is what's reprintable by the collecting-party, and not so much what's reprintable of each author's own piece.

Really, if I can put an anthology together and write the rider, I put my faith in anyone who's selected to do it here. Well, almost anyone.

And, yeah, anyone who's not writing to their youthful self, on some level, is probably at a point where they forgot they had a youthful self at some point.
 
 
Haloquin
21:56 / 18.04.07
This is a very shiny idea!

I'd like to volunteer for spell-checking etc, and would be very keen on joining in with a submission, although its more likely to be painting than writing. I have the seed of an idea for a short piece of writing based on/combined with a picture. Once it has developed enough to be presented as a coherent idea I'll poke it wherever plan submissions go. If thats ok?

I'm wondering if making 'Barbelith' part of the subtitle rather than as the main title would be better? This way the Barbelith brand is present, but it isn't a flashing sign for Invisiphiles... just a thought.

I'd like to voice love of 'Numinosity' as a word, although NUminous sounds nicer, numinosity works better in my head as a title, plus, the meaning rocks.

Would it also be worth having this thread for thrashing out technicalities and decisions, and have a seperate thread where submitted plans and discussion for inclusion could be kept? This may keep things tidier.
 
 
Quantum
21:59 / 18.04.07
Seems kind of long to me to throw your hat in the ring...or do you mean to get the actual thing in?
How about a shorter announcement to participate with a longer deadline for product?


I was thinking three months for copy. If it can't be written in three months then it's too long. We could have a shorter deadline for hats in the ring, I'd favour a month, because there are people off the board who I'd love to pressgang in and it might take more than a fortnight.


Lula, I think we need to segregate this project a bit from the Temple mods as not all of them may want to be in this.

Yeah, hold up, it should only be volunteers and I don't think it should only be moderators, we trust plenty of people who aren't mods enough for them to be in charge. As far as I'm concerned it should be volunteers who are up for putting the time and effort in, mod or not.
Olulabelle convinced me of the Temple brand but I don't think we need 'Barbelith' on it, I think Temple is enough.

XK- so first you've got three compilers/editors/reviewers to vet the stuff, then subeditors/proofreaders after that? Sounds good but I don't know if we need to only have a triumvirate of subs, that could easily be more if we get more volunteers. I'm mindful of what grant said, All the rest of the people here are checking spelling, making sure things look right, and keeping people on target. I don't think we need to limit the proofing/layout/etc. team to three.

re: audience, I think the hypothetical intelligent, interested, layperson is usual which hopefully includes our 15-yr old selves.

On a personal note, I decided last night that it would be the perfect time to set up a publication like this and resolved to do it, then today XK had the same idea and now everyone's joined in- which is aces. I have high hopes for this monstrous creation, and I absolutely insist we include some pieces on voodoo, vodou and vodoun.
 
 
Quantum
22:09 / 18.04.07
a short piece of writing based on/combined with a picture.

If we could get people to illustrate the articles or write text for the pictures, that would be nice.

On the name, I was thinking Thaumivore, a creature that feeds on magic. But internetting it I find mostly RPG references so maybe not.
In an ideal world I'd title it The Temple: Magic Without Bullshit but I guess that's out, so how about The Temple: Magic Matters.
Maybe too cheesy.

Magic Without Fears maybe? After 'Magic Without Tears' obvs?
 
 
This Sunday
22:11 / 18.04.07
I think this may've been floating in a lot of the regular Mag-forum checkers, of late. For obvious reasons.

And what a great channeling of that energy it ought to be, too.

As to the Barbelith thing: Does anybody know if he ever filed for a trademark on it? Just curious. 'Cause I'm half tempted to incite a genuine and open stealing of the word. It is a proper religious symbol these days, so if the folks who do books involving fastfood can abscond the golden arches or the McD's name, why not the same with the bearded stone of love?

The wandering incomers aren't all associating this board with Morrison that regularly, are they?
 
 
This Sunday
22:12 / 18.04.07
Magick Without Fears is lovely. Oh, yes.
 
 
Quantum
22:35 / 18.04.07
The Temple: Magic Without Fears

That's my nomination.
 
 
EmberLeo
23:00 / 18.04.07
I'm potentially interested in contributing, but I don't know which things I'm working on are of interest.

I definitely have plenty of personal experience to work from...

--Ember--
 
 
*
23:17 / 18.04.07
XK, you're my s/hero! Thankyouthankyouthankyou!

I'd like to help with this, but I'm not doing anything that interesting right now, so I'd like to edit or help with publication. How do people feel about creative commons licenses?
 
 
Ticker
00:56 / 19.04.07
id, I heart you big time.
Plus I really dig your unintentional title suggestion of:

Magic Without Oppression compilation

'Cause, come on...some of us work with fear.

Keep chucking out title suggestions we'll thrash it out over time.

Quants, I'm telling you, you and I are surfing the same channel most of the time.

Okay so how about a set number of reviewers for content and a bigger pool of hands for proof-patrol and maybe two for layout? We probably need to avoid a pile up of too many people in the kitchen with the layout...
 
 
This Sunday
04:27 / 19.04.07
Could call it Magick Without and make'em think straight off like that.
 
 
EmberLeo
05:35 / 19.04.07
Heh, my knee-jerk response is "Why be so negative? Isn't one of the major things in magic that you need to phrase things in the positive/active sense, so that you are focusing on a point, instead of diffusing your focus on everything BUT a point? I mean really, "Magic Without..." is exactly what isn't supposed to DO!"

Which is, I suppose... thinking...

--Ember--
 
 
Feverfew
05:57 / 19.04.07
I'll happily help out if I can - it's likely to be spellchecking/editing/copytyping/laying out, though, but I do have some experience of the above!
 
 
*
06:41 / 19.04.07
How about DisCurseSieve?
 
 
Ticker
11:14 / 19.04.07
Well honestly I still kinda like Numinosity because:

As a higher process than the magical, the numinous takes many forms. Otto says the numinous has primitive, daemonic and dark as well as elevated, noble and pure aspects. He calls the absolute and purest experience of the numen "the Holy."

and

But Jung's work is more detailed than Otto's. Jung says that, depending on the strength and attitude of the conscious ego, an encounter with numinosity may be healing or destructive. Healing numinosity involves personal humility while destructive numinosity may lead to self-aggrandizement.

I'm thinking as part of being inclusive we should not make judgments about the area of people's presentations but rather if it's a constructive offering to the community.

For example I'm thinking of writing something about Pain Magic (an intro to the theory and practice). This might scare the poop out of some folks but I believe it would be something valueable to offer to the greater community for consideration in a thoughtful well researched article.

So my thoughts are if we present the entire project as neutral (leave out the negative/positive) but valued by the practioner as something they believe is worth the time and attention of the community, we're ahead of the rest.



plus you know, I have an axe to grind with the whole:

Healing numinosity involves personal humility while destructive numinosity may lead to self-aggrandizement.

Just sayin'.
 
 
Saturn's nod
11:39 / 19.04.07
This sounds so good. I <3 you all. I want to write something, I will get a proposal together soon as I can.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:04 / 19.04.07
I fear "numinosity" flips my neologism horror trip-switch, but then I'm not likely to have much to contribute, so don't mind me. I could maybe proofread and/or copy-edit/beta-read...
 
 
Princess
12:04 / 19.04.07
Wombat emailed this too me:

"Hello

I`m off the barbelith board now.
I`m not sure if you set up this as an option for
ex-lithers. But gonna give it a try here. This email
now belongs to you and anyone you choose to post it
to. You may edit it and claim it as your own IP.


I want to suggest that the temple book being made here
http://www.barbelith.com/topic/27048
be made in a variety of formats. ( not JUST .pdf).Add
ODF or even better html would be my preference. ( So
as many people as possible can read it without
problems)
There are practical concerns about a delivery in
different formats but I`d like to bring alternatives
to the lith community.

I`d also like to introduce an article into the mix. I
dislike the way quantum mechanics is portrayed in the
magical community. I`d like to write something about
the temple/lab crossover. ( body/mind problem, godel,
difference between a mathematical model and practical
model, meditation and a satire of the current
scientific method). Heh..but I have the communictions
skills of a dead badger. ( obviously not a real live
badger or a dead honey badger...both of which can kick
my arse in pico-seconds). So I want to submit early
and get feedback on both my ideas and writing style.

ty
Wombat"
 
 
Ticker
13:05 / 19.04.07
I fear "numinosity" flips my neologism horror trip-switch, but then I'm not likely to have much to contribute, so don't mind me. I could maybe proofread and/or copy-edit/beta-read..

Heh.
Well sometimes I dig the neologisms.

In theology, a neologism is a relatively new doctrine (for example, rationalism). In this sense, a neologist is an innovator in the area of a doctrine or belief system, and is often considered heretical or subversive by the mainstream clergy or religious institution(s).

We could just call it the Neologist and really annoy the crap out of a few people.
But we probably have time to get a few contenders presented for a vote.



Timeframe wise what do we think about the end of May for all abstracts to be submitted? Obviously the word is getting out and I feel pretty confident that we'll have a good spectrum.


Thankfully it looks like team Proof Patrol has a healthy number of volunteers? I'm thinking grammar based editing would happen here as well.
grant, betty woo, Haloquin, id, Feverfew, and Haus have all thrown in so far for this.

So we need some Temple folk for Content Review Patrol.
It sounds like the magic number is three? Because we may have more volunteers for it than slots should we vote?
This to my thinking is the hardest level of involvement because these folks have to be the arbitrators of the standard for acceptable quality. They also have to be willing to work with and explain to people why their submission may not be acceptable and how to improve it. In my mind it's not about being an experienced practitioner of every form of magic but being a facilitator of the community that's important here. They have to be able to say 'no' and suggest changes in a constructive manner. The community needs to have faith in their judgment.

From the posts it looks like Matt, monk, and ghadis are up for Layout/Publication/Final Edit Patrol?

Please correct me if I'm lumping you into the wrong group. I'm not including submissions here because chickens-hatching etc.

id mentioned creative commons license
and I think he is right to propose it for this project. What do other peoples think?
 
 
Doc Checkmate
13:08 / 19.04.07
What are people's thoughts in terms of article length?
 
 
Ticker
13:29 / 19.04.07
Maybe rather than number of pages it should be about what a contributer can kick out in 3 months and cover their topic successfully?

I mean do we care if it is tiny or huge for the first issue?
 
 
Doc Checkmate
15:42 / 19.04.07
Not necessarily, but I can how a length guideline might be useful. If there ended up being a predominance of extremely long articles, that might not be good... there should be at least some shorter, punchier, one-sitting entries. Maybe a ceiling?
 
 
Doc Checkmate
16:07 / 19.04.07
What about "Summum Bonum" as a potential name?

The Golden Dawn impelled its aspirants to seek "the Summum Bonum, True Wisdom, and Perfect Happiness." It essentially refers to the "ultimate goal" or "highest good," without nailing down some objective, universal definition of what that is. It sounds badass, has a venerable history in magic, religion, and philosophy, and embodies the harmonious convergence of eclectic viewpoints and aspirations within the Temple. We may have different ideas of the "highest good," but we're all going after it and somehow we're managing to do it together.

Or something.
 
 
Quantum
16:31 / 19.04.07
So we need some Temple folk for Content Review Patrol.

Hey woo yes pick me! I volunteer, esp. if we can call it a Content Assesment Group (CAG)

I was thinking we need a website.
I'm also going to request some people submit articles by badgering them incessantly to volunteer (BTW Wombat's article sounds great).
 
 
Ticker
17:27 / 19.04.07
heheh.

I think Quants should be a part of CAG just for the suggestion!
In all seriousness I think his rep as a Temple member/mod proceeds him.

Who else is in the running? I spotted a few folks suggesting I do it as well. I'd be happy to do it if there's no conflict with my also having something in the collection (subject to other CAG review).

Shall we wait for a few more people to offer and vote or what? What feels fair?

As for a website, I think we need to pick a name first?

id, I would be very excited if you would consider being a CAG possibility? Don't know how busy you are? Will PM you as well.
 
 
grant
17:27 / 19.04.07
3. Approved submissions are handed off to the Editors who check for grammar (within stylistic reason) spelling and do layout.

In the publication for which I toil, these are two (or three) very different positions. Editing is one thing, laying out is another.

I'd suggest having a workflow that went:

submission
copy edit
layout
proofread
editor edit
(+ writer edit/writer approval, if you want to be that democratic).

If you want illustrations, that should also happen before the layout stage.

It's a bad idea for people to edit/proof their own work. Many more mistakes get through that way, even if you're only dealing with 4" of copy. I'm imagining these will be considerably longer pieces.

That final "editor edit" would be making sure headlines/titles don't conflict and that the layout works with the other things in the issue, and that there aren't obvious goofs in picture captions, bylines, author bios (if you're running them under the article) and sub-headings (if you have sections to articles).
 
  

Page: 1(2)34567... 17

 
  
Add Your Reply