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Bleach

 
  

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Red Concrete
20:29 / 31.05.07
But did I mention BLEACH ROCK MUSICAL?

Can anyone lend a hand by uploading it somewhere I can download it, or burning it to a DVD for me?


Well the download is 1Gig, but i'll see what I can do. Can anyone suggest a decent file-hoster?
 
 
Red Concrete
23:39 / 31.05.07


Probably someone here can point you to the IRC bot, or a direct download.
 
 
Seth
11:16 / 01.06.07
The Bleach Rock Musical sounds far too good to be true. I will set myself to downloading...
 
 
Seth
22:37 / 01.06.07
Oh good lord.

You know, in some ways it's all kinds of awesome, and in others it's all kinds of dreadful. And the girl who plays Orihime has all kinds of padding stuffed in her bra.

The closing post credits songs are all hilarious. In fact it's laugh out loud funny all the way through.

It's left me a little speechless that something this... totally wrong can exist. But how can it be wrong when it feels so right?

Really liked the guys who play Rukia, Ichigo and Urahara. They're pretty spot on.

I'm going to have lots of fun playing this for all the Bleach fan Hamptoners who don't know that it exists yet.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
17:05 / 06.06.07
No more wondering, no more rumours, Memories Of Nobody will hit Japan on DVD september 5th 2007

's official like.
 
 
Seth
01:33 / 07.06.07
YO! So Evangelion beats Dattebayo to the punch. Somehow that's not how I thought things would roll.
 
 
Seth
01:46 / 07.06.07
YO! Because I find it funny...

 
 
Seth
11:56 / 08.06.07
YO! You know, if the Bound arc had Matsumoto shopping trips, Isshin's shouting-manly-things-at-the-sunset speech, Hitsugaya's deadpanning "Let's give him the soul burial" and more Shinigami mufti action it would have been a lot better. Bleach 128 is pure filler but not bad in the slightest, and much better than a mammoth filler arc later on.
 
 
Seth
15:00 / 09.06.07
YO! Since all has gone quiet in this thread (and chances are won't pick up until the new filler is done unless action is taken) I propose we get philosophical about the notion of *filler* and specifically how it relates to this show.

Let's start with some fun questions:

How would you write Bleach filler?

What would you want to see?

Which characters would you use, and which stories would you tell?

What would you want the filler to achieve?

How can you contribute to the canon of an extremely complex world without contradicting something that might be to come?


Answers on a post.
 
 
hachiman
15:27 / 09.06.07
They started on filler again.

[Isshin Voice] NOOOOOOO!!!! My Heart is Torn To Ten Thousand Pieces!!
 
 
Essential Dazzler
15:32 / 09.06.07
Thinking Hachiman would show more faith, it'll be fine if we believe.

YO! I'll get to thinking about that. Have no time right now, but would love to contribute something uncharacteristically useful for once.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
16:07 / 09.06.07
(still, small voice) I didn't realise this week's episode *was* filler. I quite enjoyed it, even if it was fluffy as all get out.

That said, the Challenge of the Yo!bot has piqued my interest, so I'll be back in a while with some considered responses which I'll post seconds after someone else has written the same material more coherently. It's what I do.
 
 
Seth
16:49 / 09.06.07
They started on filler again.

[Isshin Voice] NOOOOOOO!!!! My Heart is Torn To Ten Thousand Pieces!!


It's not going to last long. Study the opening credits. I only have a rudimentary knowledge of broad stokes of the story to come, but elements of the next major manga arc will definitely crop up within the next twenty episodes if the series is true to previous form.

The network has demanded that they fill their slot with Bleach product. You can either accept it, not watch it or make your own fan edit.
 
 
Seth
16:50 / 09.06.07
YO!
 
 
madfigs #32, now with wasabi
19:50 / 09.06.07
I wouldn't have know the last episode was filler either - the re-appearing Arrancar/Hollow guy seemed like a legitimate plot point. In retrospect, I guess there was even more Matsumoto fan service than usual.

Anyway, I think that flashbacks have a lot of potential as filler material. At the least, they're an easy way to work in stories that aren't directly related to the ongoing plot. In a show with a huge supporting cast like Bleach, an obvious device is to feature characters who were a lot different in their younger days. For example, was the Captain-Commander more dynamic when he wasn't a really old guy? Did Captain Kurotsuchi always have creepy meathooks growing out of his head? Was Captain Ukitake more of a badass before he was sick all the time? Flashback filler stories wouldn't need to show why the characters have changed - that can be left as a surprise for future plots, or it can remain unexplained to make certain people seem more mysterious.

I also wouldn't mind seeing a full-length version of the Shinigami Illustrated Guide. An occasional episode that's completely silly and out of continuity could be a lot of fun.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
21:24 / 10.06.07
How would you write Bleach filler?

Madfigs has already clued us in here so I'll enlarge on this point: Bleach's writers are in the habit, in the aftermath of a titanic battle, of slamming on the brakes for an episode showing us how the antagonist got where he is today and what makes him tick. I'm thinking of the Renji and Kenpachi battles in particular as this device got used a great deal during the Soul Society arc, although we've had a late entry recently filling in more on Ikkaku Madarame. Which is by way of saying that filler-esque material is already present and correct in the manga-derived material - it's just that the non-manga stories, being all of a piece and severely hampered by having to avoid disrupting continuity, get less kudos.

What would you want to see? - Which characters would you use, and which stories would you tell? - What would you want the filler to achieve? - How can you contribute to the canon of an extremely complex world without contradicting something that might be to come?*

I always sucked at separating out my ideas in essay form so bear with me here while I ball my thoughts into a Play-Doh-like lump and throw them at the wall. (*The last question is known to academicians as the 'Transformers UK problem' and has never yet been solved, so I'll probably not manage it here.)

Carrying on with the business of flashbacks, some of my favourite stories from the Soul Society run were the 'school days' episodes with Renji, Rukia, Hinamori and co. in the earliest days of their Shinigami training. The fact that so many major and minor characters from the present-day cast came up together might seem like laziness and/or excessive neatness on the part of Kube and staff, but conversely it offers ample opportunities for flashback-based storytelling and fleshing out of established characters without the need to devise filler characters a la Maki Ichinose. (A poor example since his story was one of the best-made things to come out of the Bount arc, but I hope my point stands.)

The class of contemporaries from Shinigami academy include some of my favourite undeveloped characters, of whom I'd love to see more. Remember Hinamori's recollection of the ill-fated training mission to the human world and Aizen saving her life? There could be more material like that, perhaps telling of the same or similar occasions from the other participants' perspectives, and linking it to Gotei 13's contemporary concerns. How are Kira Izuru and Shuuhei Hisagi, both lieutenants as loyal in their own ways as was Hinamori, coping with being betrayed? Is Yamamoto really able to run everything on his own now that Central Room 46 has been wiped out? These are questions that could be delved into without necessarily impacting the main arc overmuch since these characters don't form part of the circle of principal or secondary players, and can thus have the odd bit of development of their own without the writers having to feel they need to balance every single narrative debt before the eventual end of the series. Hell, we could even do something similar with the back-formation Vizards - let them carry an origin-story flashback or shopping-expedition episode between them and see how we warm to them. I think it'd go over pretty well.

Or to take another tack, let's bring out Bleach's other major strength, ridiculous comedy. Some people really hate this so I'll keep it brief. The Urahara shop crew (with or without mod souls according to taste), Don Kanonji, at home with the Asanos, high school goofing off (some of us like Chizuru, ya know) - hey, after this week I've got the germ of an idea for Isshin telling his kids more unbelievable and semi-perverted yet somehow heartwarming stories of his crazy youth (strictly untrue since we [think we] know what he *really* is now, but that's beside the point). Shows like Urusei Yatsura used to run for years on this kind of material. Why should we pass it up today?



You know, considering all these matters has reminded me once more how much I love this show. It really is a wonderfully multi-dimensional pop-culture mythos easily able to stand alongside Harry Potter or the X-Men. It runs the gamut of character development from throwaway to epic and can seemingly absorb whatever storytelling requirements we demand of it; its weaknesses where they occur are more than forgiveable. There's an incredible sense of lightness and fluorescence that pervades the whole show even in its darker moments. And I wish I was cool as Uryuu Ishida.
 
 
Seth
15:57 / 11.06.07
How about At Home With The Kurotsuchis? Mayuri and Nemu invite the Kuchikis over for a dinner party, with hilarious results...
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
19:05 / 11.06.07


"Mayuri-sama, don't do that at the dinner table."
"Shut up, useless whore!"


What charming people they are. Always a pleasure.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
19:17 / 11.06.07
Now there's plenty of Shinigami at the school, doesn't the time feel right for UNDERCOVER SUBSTITUTE TEACHER KENPACHI?

Why, yes. Yes, it does.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
19:29 / 11.06.07
Oh My God yes, when those bells ring you KNOW playtime is over.
 
 
hachiman
11:44 / 12.06.07
UNDERCOVER SUBSTITUTE TEACHER KENPACHI?


Coolest Idea EEEVVVAAAARRRR!!!!

regarding having faith, i'm a little spoiled i am, and i want my BLEACH! WAHH!

However,YO! and Madfigs points are taken, have only seen up to 125, and will watch the new stuff and reserve judgement.
Like your ideas btw Transfer, i'd enjoy that, and more Chizuru too!
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
13:48 / 12.06.07
I be hipmotized by redhead with ever-spinning leeks.

Apropos of not much, I thought I'd share an insight that is not original to me but came from a poster on another forum and ties in with Seth's earlier comments about Ichigo and the way he relates to others through fighting with them. As was rightly said, Ichigo gets on best with people like himself: scrappy, uncouth, instinctive bruisers who're quick with their fists or blades, and who run the gauntlet from amorally violent and thrill-seeking (Kenpachi, although he's a special case, and Ikkaku) to morally upright and protective of others (Rukia, Renji - you can even stretch it some to include Chad, Ishida and Tatsuki in this category). Of course, we have a late entrant in this class now in the wonderfully unsophisticated shape of Hiyori Sarugaki; it's no accident, I guess, that Ichigo has made so much progress training with her. It seems that our boy does best when paired either with someone on his own wavelength, or quixotically far beyond it, as when he trained with Urahara and Yoruichi.

Hiyori, and Hachi in his gentle tutelage of Orihime, are the first Vizard characters to break out of their group identity and form organic relationships with established cast members. I think they're potentially the best development in the show since the Soul Society arc came to an end, which is part of the reason I nominated them for filler spotlights. And as I mentioned before, their character designs are visually terrific.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
12:55 / 14.06.07
Humph. This storyline, notwithstanding the peregrinations about the nature of filler material upthread, is feeling distinctly meh. Nary a decent thrill or laugh to be had this episode.

I think the problem is that it feels like a 'Season One' story in a series that has definitely reached 'Season Four' or higher levels of drama, sophistication and execution - if it had taken place before Rukia's arrest and featured Orihime, Ichigo and Tatsuki instead of Hitsugaya's peeps there would be no objections. Instead, the lack of A-list characters and plot is downright aggravating.

No chance I won't be watching still for the next few weeks, although I am looking forward to...

VERY MINOR SPOILER (courtesy of Anime News Network)









... Episode 132: "Hitsugaya, Karin and Soccer Ball"










A fun sounding episode! Yay!
 
 
Seth
20:30 / 14.06.07
The thing that I'm missing with these episodes is not the A-list characters... it's the sense that Hitsugaya, Matsumoto, Yumichika and Ikkaku could just be anyone. There's barely any sense of them in 129 at all. At least last episode there was quipping and banter.

There's also the tangible sense of a wasted opportunity. You could conceivably tell a stunning four episode flashback story about Kenpachi and Yachiru's wilderness years, or show us what Ganju is up to at the moment, or even bring back Don Kanonji. There's all sorts of storytelling you could attempt, the universe is easily open wide enough for it.

Ultimately it seems as though the life has been sucked out of the show. The jarring shifts in tone and pace, the played for laughs emotional responses, the humour, the multiple conflicting motivations, the relationships, the intrigue, the plotting, the sense of risk... it's all steamrollered out into a flat bland uninvolving waste of time and space.

The plus side is that we know how much it will improve when it gets back on track with the comic. But really, I'm sure that they could have negotiated much more with Kubo about exactly what they could and couldn't do with these stories. Much more could be done.
 
 
madfigs #32, now with wasabi
07:18 / 15.06.07
So are the anime produced without Kubo's direct involvement? I've always assumed that he at least does storyboards or something for the adaptation, but since the fansubs don't translate credits it's hard to know who the writers are. To be honest, all I know about the general anime production process I learned from that one episode of Paranoia Agent. My grasp of the industry may not be totally accurate.

In any case, they've generally been doing a fantastic job with the series. I haven't caught up on reading all the manga yet, but the anime is so dynamic that some parts come off even better than they did on the page. You can definitely see that a lot of the best shots are taken straight from the drawings though.

I think the bland storytelling this week was a big part of the problem, but I did notice something else that was disturbing. Captain Hitsugaya's use of Hyorinmaru was... kind of dull, actually. Every other time he's used it has been totally awesome, so what if things are just starting to get old when they're used too many times? I've almost felt the same way about Ichigo's bankai recently, but once his training (and the filler episodes) are done things should start progressing again. As someone (probably Seth) said upthread, half the fun in the show is seeing who goes up against each other and how their talents and personalities clash in different ways each time.

Heck, even the gag after the end credits was lame this week. I'm writing this off as a temporary low point, and hoping it will pick up after a couple episodes.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
08:05 / 15.06.07
So are the anime produced without Kubo's direct involvement? I've always assumed that he at least does storyboards or something for the adaptation, but since the fansubs don't translate credits it's hard to know who the writers are. To be honest, all I know about the general anime production process I learned from that one episode of Paranoia Agent. My grasp of the industry may not be totally accurate.

That's an interesting point which rather undermines something I was about to say on the subject of filler, which is that Bleach has the advantage of other shows in that filler material is clearly telegraphed in advance. If there's a run of duff or off-game episodes it's not going to be because the star director quit in a huff over money or control, or one of the stars got pulled over for speeding and punched a police officer. I've been made curious about the ins and outs of anime production by this insight, so I think I'll try and find some more factual material that can be deemed relevant to this thread.

(An aside: Did you realise that one reason adult actors are generally cast as child characters is that voice recording studios schedule production 'round the clock to reduce costs, and labour laws and industry pay grades make it prohibitively expensive to have actual child actors play the parts? Which is why you'll generally only see child parts played by children in a prestigious, Ghibli-class production.)

Seth's point about the flattening of characterisation in the filler material is well made. Matsumoto feels alternately solemn and flighty without the sense you get from the canon material, that she's a woman who's had it hard and who consequently has a lot of steel and grit beneath her bubbly exterior. Ikkaku lacks the exuberant, nearly uncontrollable lust for battle we love him for, and Yumichika.... Well, I was watching an old Soul Society episode the other day, the scene where Zaraki's sitting in the dust in the aftermath of his abortive battle with Komamura, and Yumichika appears, elated after succeeding in besting Lt Hisagi without suffering a single scratch. Except that he's so ridiculously camp, wispy and twinkly in victory that even Ken-chan gets weirded out by it. It's a hilariously wrong scene of the type that exemplifies Bleach's gift for incongruous comedy, that the filler writers just can't seem to imitate.

As for Madfigs' comment about Hitsugaya's bankai, one of the things I enjoyed most about this key concept when it was first introduced was the vague sense of bankai as an almost sacred, taboo matter, a private understanding between Shinigami and zanpakutoh, which is and should be only used in the direst circumstances. It's almost fitting that the mystery is preserved by the fact that we've never seen the exact moment when a character like Ichigo or Renji attains it. So to have it pulled out continuously as a form of fan service, in the midst of some frankly pedestrian battle or even at the outset, rather than end of a vital one, feels a little cheap. But there I guess the genie is out of the bottle on that one.
 
 
Seth
10:54 / 15.06.07
I was under the impression that both Histugaya and Matsumoto were using shikai throughout the battles in episode 129. At no point did either of them actually say bankai, and as a result Hitsugaya's ice attack was rather impressive indeed, as it was only inflicted in his zanpakuto's second stage of release.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
13:19 / 15.06.07
My bad, I didn't link those topics very effectively as I had wanted to talk about bankai in this context for a little while now, and erroneously used Madfigs' comment as a springboard.

Hitsugaya's shikai is one of the more impressive ones in the captain class, for certain. His warning to Kira, in the battle with Gin Ichimaru, that he should be sure to get more than 12km away from the battlefield or run the risk of being killed by accident, stands out as one of the best moments of badassery in Bleach history in my opinion.
 
 
madfigs #32, now with wasabi
21:23 / 15.06.07
Hitsugaya is hardcore, but you have to admit that "Reduce the whole of creation to smoldering ashes" is a pretty intense release phrase!

I think overall they've done a good job preserving the mystery behind bankai. Not even half of the characters who can do so have unleashed theirs so far, and the ones we've seen in action multiple times (Ichigo, Renji, Hitsugaya) seem to be developing in interesting directions. Baboon Bone Cannon Zabimaru! I think Byakuya's suffered the most overuse in this department, but that's because his role in the fight against Kariya was basically a less interesting rehash of the earlier battle against Ichigo.

Ikkaku's bankai was a great example of proper use - it was definitely a last resort, it came as a surprise at the time, and most importantly it was awesome! I can see how the ever-increasing power levels would make this kind of thing more difficult to pull off eventually, but there are enough big reveals left to last quite a while. On the other hand, a large-scale battle is one thing we haven't really seen yet in the show. If they can pull it off without losing focus on the characters, that could be a very satisfying conclusion to the Arrancar war that's being set up.

Something else I just thought of that's changed the way I view the show - I'm finally caught up to date. A single bad episode was a lot less jarring in the midst of watching ten in a row, but now when the only Bleach you see in a week is boring it's a lot more obvious.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
09:32 / 17.06.07
Well, this thread may be about to hit a slump while we endure this exceptionally dull storyline, but I'd like to offer a belated thanks to madfigs and hachiman for joining us here and enlivening this discussion, since often it's only the sterling work of Seth that keeps the thread bubbling up to the head of the forum.

Off topic of events in the anime, I was considering one of the minor elements I enjoy most about Bleach, the extravagant names the characters bear - although 90% of the references and kanji-based puns are lost on non-Japanese-speaking and -reading viewers, if you watch as much anime as I do you get a sense for when a character's name is meant to be especially resonant. So here's a link to a Livejournal entry with a pretty comprehensive concordance of the meanings of the characters' names.

Highlights include the fact that 'Renji' can mean 'second love' (poor sod - he's never going to get Rukia all to himself, is he?) and that 'Hinamori Momo' [雛森 桃] looks really nice written down.
 
 
hachiman
12:17 / 18.06.07
Happy to be of service. One day all will be in awe of Substitute Teacher Kenpachi... I mean Bleach. Sorry.
Thanks for the link btw, very nice.
Would post more, but havent sen latest episodes yet, and my ability to ruminate about Bleach in prose remains
" TEHH ROXXOR!!1111!!", so dont expect moi to match any of the leading lights on this thread.
I'm off to watch the early eps again, later.
 
 
Red Concrete
11:20 / 21.06.07
Just watched 130, and the storyline is middling interesting. I hope it's only a five-episode filler arc, though... Has anyone heard anything? I don't think I could stand another epic of Bount-proportions, and there doesn't seem to be enough material in this line to support one.
 
 
Red Concrete
11:27 / 21.06.07
I'm concerned because lately the manga seems to be slowing a little also. The last installment, for example, could probably be put into about 15-30 seconds of animation. I'd hate to see the anime draw out these episodes into a full 20 minute (or even half that) animation, like Naruto does... so as far as that goes I think that filler arcs are preferable. Short 5 episode filler arcs, say twice a year?

I've been re-watching the earlier episodes also, and I'm a little surprised at subtle changes in the artwork quality. I'm finding currently that facial expressions and movement are a lot less polished, and seem... more generic, than in the first 20 episodes for example. Has anyone else noticed?
 
 
Seth
17:47 / 21.06.07
Yeah, I've noticed that. In general the manga adapted stuff is much better quality, the filler poorer with less variety and superdeformity. It's also slower paced. I think around the time the movie was being made a lot of the better animators were prioritised for that rather than filler, and then the animation took a leap when we got onto the Arrancar arc.

Today's was alright. Nothing to write home about. Can't think of much interesting to say.
 
 
Red Concrete
07:30 / 22.06.07
Oh, in that case probably the second movie is causing this drop in quality (which I think predates these fillers). ...I cna't find the link to the second film announcment, so perhaps I dreamt it?
 
  

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