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Bleach

 
  

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Mysterious Transfer Student
10:34 / 20.07.07
Even though this episode was touted by Dattebayo themselves, rather disloyally, as the worst ever, I rather enjoyed it. A second outing for Yumichika's hilariously aggressive Soul Candy placeholder, some nice comedy montages (particularly li'l Ururu doggedly pursuing Chad and Renji as they tried to avoid tasting the awful cake) and 4th and 11th Division Shinigami working together without making a meal of the fact that they hate each other.

Next week is the last filler episode! Warning: Do not check out the titles of the two episodes that follow. Spoilers out the wazoo.
 
 
Seth
13:42 / 20.07.07
I thought it was pretty meh. I liked Hanatarou getting to make an appearance, and especially how he kicked ass in the brief Menos battle. Ikkaku's molars were funny and well remembered and I agree that Yumichika's soul candy is hilarious. But you can miss 134 and not miss anything.

The worst episodes ever are almost certainly ones with the farting about with the taps in the hospital during the Bound arc. They weren't even funny.
 
 
Triplets
19:30 / 20.07.07
I'm about 10 episodes in.

BWAHAHAHAHA!
 
 
Seth
12:58 / 23.07.07
How are you finding it, Triplets?

Once again, it's a good time to be a Bleach fan. The movie is nearly out on DVD (finally!) and the latest filler run is nearly finished (thanks for the heads up, Transfer).

Has anyone else seen the musical yet?
 
 
Triplets
16:58 / 24.07.07
I'm liking it a lot, Seth. It's Buffy writ-large with no budget cap. It jumps between action, humour and horror with almost no regard, it seems, for the audience.

I like the fact that the universe seems to be incredibly consistent and that there's a lot more for us - the audience - to learn about it. One "season" in and I've heard a ton about Soul Society, but not even seen a glimpse of it. I like that the characters are able to experiment within this consistent universe. Like Ichigo using the teddy lion as a new body for Kon (who's like a multi-trick pony Buffybot) or Ishida firing off arrows to relieve a prone Ichigo's excess spiritual essences (in-your-end-oh alert). Being able to stretch and find new things within that consistency makes it feels new but stable all at once and makes for a rich experience.

I don't like that I can't find episodes 16-21 ANYWHERE.

I RAGE.
 
 
Triplets
16:59 / 24.07.07
 
 
Seth
23:46 / 24.07.07
I can give you a contact for the missing episodes, Triplets.

One of the things that makes this show almost truly unique in its particular niche is its refusal to take any of its characters seriously. By that I mean it treats them all with absolute respect in terms of characterising them well - sometimes peerlessly - and with internal consistency. But it pokes fun at all of them, has all of them be idiots in some respect, and deflates pomposity at almost every turn.

It adds a lot of charm and is peculiarly *realistic.*
 
 
Seth
23:47 / 24.07.07
That shot of Ichigo and Rukia is perfect. God I'm in love with her.
 
 
Seth
16:59 / 26.07.07
That was ace. The resolution to the Hollow fight was telegraphed from the moment it appeared, but it was the best Kon material since he first appeared... indeed, the only Kon material in which he wasn't just comic relief since about a hundred and thirty episodes ago.

Three out of eight filler episodes being rather good, if not outright excellent (Karin & Hitsugaya). That's a better average than the Bound arc.

No Bleach next week.
 
 
Triplets
19:56 / 26.07.07
For some.
 
 
Triplets
20:05 / 26.07.07
Oh and thanks for the missing eps, Seth, but it looks like I've managed to... acquire them. Have all your eps been subbed by the same man or woman? Whoever's doing mine is doing a spiffing job. If I have trouble grabbing any of the others after say 60, would I be alright asking for help?
 
 
Seth
03:37 / 27.07.07
Certainly.

My subs for the first sixty or so episodes were done by Lunar, then after that they settle into Dattebayo. Dattebayo are much better.

You know the cartoon catches up to the comic thus necessitating filler stories, right? The first sixty three episodes are canon, 64 to 109 are filler, 110 to 127 canon, 128 to 135 are filler. The filler is mostly inconsequential and can be ignored (apart from a 132 which is awesome). There's some good stuff in it but it's surrounded by borecore.
 
 
Triplets
13:45 / 28.07.07
Woah, thanks for Seth's Guide to Bleach. And thanks to everyone for some of the sexysmart commentary running through this thread. Yes, I have spoiled myself. A bit.

It looks like the eps I have are the ones you've got. I'm suprised the ones by Dattabayo are better than Luna/Lunar's. L's are, in my eyes, top notch.

Are any of the filler eps, besides 132, worth watching in anyone's opinion?
 
 
Triplets
15:52 / 28.07.07
Question: Episode 19, is the guy in black (when Ichigo's becoming a Hollow, the one whose name is obscured). Is that Ichigo's dad with a longer doo?
 
 
Seth
12:11 / 30.07.07
Yes, many of the filler episodes are worth watching. There's some really nice stuff in there, but you will have to work hard through a long slog of poorly conceived, poorly executed go-nowhereness to get to it. If you want to have a summary of the fuller arc in order to be able to understand the elements of the filler that survive into the canon material then many people here will be happy to supply what you'll need to know.

Question: Episode 19, is the guy in black (when Ichigo's becoming a Hollow, the one whose name is obscured). Is that Ichigo's dad with a longer doo?

I'm assuming by now that you've seen enough to know the answer to this and to know the character's name and why it was initially obscured. If you haven't then it's a question that I really don't want to answer, and you won't have to wait long to find out.
 
 
Seth
07:25 / 03.08.07
Bereft.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
09:05 / 03.08.07
It feels so odd not to have been up at the crack of dawn on Thursday to download the new episode. Happily I have recently discovered the riotous comedy Ouran High School Host Club thanks to Pacific State's timely recommendation and so have something else to fill my mornings.

Of course, if Triplets or anyone else who's currently at an earlier point in the run wants to post about what they're watching, we'd love to hear from them. I may even confess to feeling a scintilla of envy at their blissful ignorance of what's coming.

That episode 19 business - man, I can't even remember what it's like not to know who ******** is and I've only been watching the show for eleven months. So cool.
 
 
Triplets
10:59 / 03.08.07
I've just started 32

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

This show is mental. Super Mystic Paul Daniels and random kids face off against what amounts to the Puttys from Power Rangers. I laughed out loud at Karin with her extendo-javelin. Top comedy. Then it all goes horror-serious when they turn into a Menos Grande.

Then, suddenly, Battlecat!!

It shows the strength of the show that it can switch between styles like that and not miss a beat.

On Kan'onji. Does every anime series have it's own comedy 'do-everything-for-me' cowardly hero? Hercule from Dragonball Z I'm looking at you.
 
 
Triplets
11:11 / 03.08.07
34. Rukia's brother is what archaeologists call a Wankersaurus Rex. Loving Ichimaru. He's obviously going to be bad news for everyone but I heart his laidback, no authoritarian b.s. attitude.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
07:55 / 09.08.07
136: Tits. Looks like we're not out of the filler swamp just yet, contrary to my excitement earlier.

Dead giveaway formula: (Renji + mod souls) x (slack animation) - (Ichigo + Rukia) = No good.

The 'SHOCK! Ulquiorra carks it - except not really' plot was annoying because it's just so bottle-bound. And we have to wait another two weeks for the next episode. I'd rather have watched Ichigo and the Vaizards going shopping for twenty minutes, genuinely.

(Grumble, orders pizza made of grey sludge...)
 
 
Seth
19:27 / 09.08.07
I'm sure you're right, Transfer. It seems that all we'll have next episode is a continuation of the fighting with all the major players in a holding pattern.

Dissention in the ranks could have been handled so much better if the Arrancar who rebelled were set up as characters. Instead we have goofing off with regular players and another reference to Rukia and Orihine inexplicably going to Soul Society off screen (presumably so that their absence doesn't have to be explained).

The animation was shockingly bad too.

There's so much more room to manouevre with filler, as has been shown in a couple of the recent episodes. We can't be conned into thinking that this is of major importance when it's blatantly not. At it's best (132) the filler has been every bit as good as the canon material, but if this keeps up I may come to wish that the anime just took a season break.

We really only had seventeen episodes of canon stuff in a row, didn't we?
 
 
Seth
19:29 / 09.08.07
Although I'm getting a big kick out of Triplets' posts on the earlier material. More please! It's just about to start getting really good for you, dude.
 
 
petunia
19:45 / 09.08.07
'kay so, i'm around episode 90 at the moment. I, the Love and housemate have been watching together episode by episode. Some stuff was absolutely amazing, but i've kind of forgotten about that because this filler is so soul-destroying innane and boring.

I understand fully the reason for filler, and appreciate the tactic over potential destroying of the storyline, but i find myself stiffled by the inherent lack of progress, growth or novelty (these things kind of defining what makes a story interesting).

We're currently forcing ourselves to watch it, to get through it and onto the good stuff which we hope will revive our faith in the series. Does it get good again?

I haven't read any of this thread as i don't want to read any spoilers. Has there been much revealing discussion, or am i okay to read away? What should i avoid telling?

I caught seth's comment above about filler as late as 132. I was under the impression (bless wikipedia) that the filler ends around ep. 109. Is this not true?!

I miss growth! Creativity! Shock! Watching an episode where you don't know that 'X won't lose their arm because they can't change anything 'til episode 109...'

I miss good bleach :-(
 
 
Seth
19:52 / 09.08.07
There is a brief segment of non-filler material between episodes 110 and about 127 that is excellent. And it's been back to filler since.

Although episode 132 is both filler and awe-inspiring. And there's a couple of good episodes towards the end of the Bound arc.

Yes, it's tough going through the filler. It makes me feel like a football supporter whose favourite team is going through a bad spell. I still want to scream out my support but it's so damned tough at times.
 
 
Seth
19:57 / 09.08.07
Oh, and happy that you've joined us .trampetunia, even if it is in such dark times. The thread can get pretty spoilery in places but you're not too far from getting back to the good stuff, albeit briefly.

Never mind, we'll soon have the movie fansubbed by some kind soul.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
20:02 / 09.08.07
To expand on Seth's advice, if you're on episode 90 then I recommend skipping to 98 for the rocking Maki Ichinose vs. Zaraki Kenpachi duel, probably the Bount arc's finest moment. The next couple of episodes have some fun action with my favourite utter bastard, Mayuri Kurotsuchi but are otherwise forgettable. Watch 108 for the denouement which is the arc's final battle (and features a very cool Byukuya moment) and don't miss 109 for some beautiful character moments with Rukia, Renji and Ichigo.

Apart from these the only real reason to pay attention to this portion of the run is the stellar fourth opening theme (up to 97) with the cute little Shinigami Fashion Parade inserts before the last chorus - watch out for three characters who haven't appeared in the show by this point!
 
 
petunia
08:50 / 10.08.07
I have some strange masochistic completionist ethic going on with this, so i doubt we'll skip any eps. I think we just need to sit down one weekend and blast through..

What the deal with going back to filler after a tiny amount of episodes? Has the manga been unexpectantly delayed?
 
 
Seth
11:17 / 10.08.07
The manga instalments are very short. In the Soul Society arc we sometimes had three issues to a single episode. The anime catches up very fast, although the current opening credits imply that the current filler won't last long.
 
 
Razor Wind
21:09 / 14.08.07
First-time poster(in this thread and in general).
I really wish the filler would end soon. All the glimpses of the story to come in the title sequence and in the manga seem further away with each episode;I know they want to build up a buffer,but do they have to make it so mediocre? I'm getting ugly flashbacks of Naruto's filler arc — it started the same way.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
21:50 / 14.08.07
Welcome to Barbelith, Razor Wind, and our little thread. Nice to have you with us.

In fairness to the show's makers, no one ever sets out to achieve mediocrity, and it seems that their resources have been spread thinly with the (rather tasty-looking) movie to produce and promote. And Tite Kubo, like Jack Bauer, is just one man and can only work and create so fast even with the corps of assistants that every top manga artist is supposed to have. It may well be that with the manga currently at around chapter 280 and the anime halted at around chapter 220, and following the ratio of two or three chapters to an anime episode, we can now look forward to an uninterrupted twenty or thirty canon episodes. The titles of eps #138 and #139 suggest that, no really this time, we're back to the main game.
 
 
Razor Wind
00:25 / 15.08.07
Aye,I know. It's just that all those suggestions made earlier in the thread make me aware of the missed opportunities.
I've got all of the manga volumes,I'm continually checking Tokyo Toshokan for each new scanslation;I'm a fan(atic). What I want from an animated adaptation of Bleach,or any other manga,is something I can't get from the printed page. There's the base pleasure of seeing the fight scenes animated,and that is fine,no problem. The true pleasure is when they use the new medium to flesh out the canon.
It's why I was so delighted that they were willing to diverge from the manga,then integrate it into the arc;why not continue what they started in 132? Doesn't even have to cost much — some of the most interesting episodes of Star Trek were "bottle" episodes,just two or three actors in a room,being convincing. It's harder to do in a fighting anime,but it can be done.

Another filler suggestion. The school might also need a new science teacher. Forget Snape,move over Frankenstein — Mayuri Kurotsuchi's taking this class. Imagine the lessons:
"Today we're going to learn "experimental biology". Pay attention,otherwise you won't get your arms back."
 
 
Triplets
07:46 / 16.08.07
Still watching through this, guys. I blitzed my way through the rescue portion of the Soul Society arc so, yes, I'm very near the end of that.

It's been a rocking ride so far. Some of the animation on this show is absolutely fucking stellar. My favourite bit, visually, is Mayuri's bankai against Ishida. Absolutely gorgeous and simple reds, animated flawlessly. The economy of that sequence reminded me of something Max Fleischer or Mike Mignola would do, given access to anime and a big budget.

Speaking of Mayuri: what a monster. He's almost eeevil enough to be a parody but the amount of cruelty you can sense inside him cuts that short.

Loving the shikais and bankais shown so far. So creative. It's like Visionaries filtered through mad, Combat Shintoism.

I have to say this show, if nothing else, is showing me that I've come a long way since watching Dragonball Z on Toonami. It's the character/comedy bits I love the most about this show, really, not the big fights.
Actually, can I be honest? A lot of the fighty stuff in Bleach is starting to bore me a bit. It's mostly been Ichigo fighting (which is another point I want to cover) other male opponents so a lot of it has been massive amounts of dick, sorry, zapankutou waving. And then there's the constant standing around looking shocked because of someone's mahusive power. It bored my tits off with Goku and the gang and it bores my tits off here.

The exception that proves the rule, though, (and where I lose all credibility for my argument) was the Kenpachi fights. How scary is that man! I love him. His first duel with Ichigo was great and summed him up perfectly. And his soul slayer looking like a rusty, jagged blade? Again, perfect.

The second duel, between Ken-chan and Tousen was also brill. Robbed of his six senses Ken compensates by relying on his secret seventh sense of being cut. Fucking class! Daredevil as played by Mickey Rourke.

So, perhaps I do love the fights when they're entertaining and tell us a little bit about the main characters.

Speaking of whom, where the fuck has everyone else from the highschool been throughout this arc? We've seen Chad a little bit, then he gets his arse handed to him by the laidback , we've seen Inoue... be resourceful? Or at least had Ishida mention she has been, which seems a bit like cheating. And Ishida, loved him during the Mayuri fight but now it looks like he's lost his powers entirely. I worry for their effectiveness once they get back to the real world; it seems like, apart from Ichigo, they've really been dumped into the deep end of the power pool.
 
 
Triplets
07:59 / 16.08.07
I also wanted to touch on the sexism I'm finding in Bleach. Before I got to the end of the rescue arc I had a big post written out that lambasted it for all the female characters being portrayed as weak and useless. Obviously, this isn't completely true given the heroic performance by the big four women in Soul Society (Soi Fon, Yoruichi, Kukkaku and Rangiku) however these are the exceptions. We've got Inoue constantly banging on about how weak she is, Hinamori's fawning over Aizen, Ururu (no matter how powerful she turns out to be) is freakishly subservient and spineless. Yachiru is portrayed as being ubercute and, well, a cheerleader? Nemu (Mayuri's lieutenant)... well... she's a fucking nightmare for feminism isn't she? I wanted Mayuri dead just so she could go on now walk out the door, turn around now 'cause I don't love you any more.

So, I think there's a bit of a bad tendency in Bleach for women to be portrayed as not only weak but as childish? And it's frustrating because looking at Rangiku, Yoruichi et al it doesn't have to be that way or, at the least, not as bad.
 
 
Mysterious Transfer Student
08:19 / 16.08.07
Glad to see you're sticking with it despite your reservations, Triplets. If you've yet to reach the end of the Soul Society arc, I'd guess you still have the
[+] [-] Spoiler
duel coming up, which is even more entertainingly slashy than Renji vs. Byakuya even if it's not exactly a departure from the cockwaving element of Bleach.

Yes, the ridiculous power gap between Ichigo and his friends is a problem, but one thing this show seems to keep sight of is the need to comment on its inherent flaws; that plot issue and others become a major focus in the next canon story arc, with all of the Karakura home team reacting to their shortcomings in very distinctive and convincing ways.

The sexism is a different issue and one that we've touched on in this thread before. Seth's made a convincing case for the three-dimensionality of Inoue's character and I'd prefer to not to rehash and misrepresent his arguments; the other characters you mention all have their own issues. Hinamori's obsessive streak and hero-worship of Aizen are, I'd say, integral to her character rather than functions of her being a weak-willed girly girl, and only serve to make her story that much more tragic. Nemu and Ururu are both probably in the same category of Rei Ayanami-esque 'doll' character, which is certainly tres problematic but can, if you like, be excused as underlining the nefariousness of their male masters (admittedly we're heading into Refrigerator terrain here).

I'm encouraged, by contrast that you don't see Matsumoto as part of the problem, since her characterisation ('Oh my goodness, my breasts hurt! Let's go shopping!') gave me some icks when she first appeared, but the way in which she's been allowed to play a convincing 'big sister' role to Hitsugaya and Inoue and show some of the steel and strength under the fluffy exterior diminished that particular problem for me. And there's at least one new female character coming up in the post-#120 story arc that definitely doesn't fall into the simpering girlie category, whom I think you'll appreciate.
 
 
Seth
12:25 / 16.08.07
I don't find the show nearly as sexist as most television, mainly because the male characters are just as weak as the female. For example:

Renji has a mammoth chip on his shoulder, is cripplingly insecure, chases the respect and acceptance of others and cares far too much about the rules and mores of Soul Society. It takes Ichigo to wake him up to himself and what he really wants, but he still crucially never wins a fight.

Byakuya ties himself in an emotional knot because of two unrealistic promises he's made to three dead people. He's a prisoner of his own interpretation of the rules of Soul Society and he never sets out his stall for what he wants, all the while lying to himself about why he's doing it so he can look himself in the mirror.

Zaraki Kenpachi may appear to be the unbeatable superbad, but most of his fights are won before any blows land. He beats his opponent psychologically, which is how he loses to Ichigo when Ichigo demonstrates he has something that Kednpachi has convinced himself that he doesn't want through bluster and reaction. The Zanpakuto is the strength of a Shinihami's soul, the source of their power, and somehow Kenpachi is so at odds with himself that his own sword refuses to disclose to him. His loneliness is his undoing, he knows it, and he breaks down like a lost little boy.

Chad is Ichigo's supposed right hand man, fights shoulder to shoulder with his friend, back to back. They'll always fight for the other. The pain he feels when he realises that his friend just doesn't seem to need him any more propels many of his later actions.

You mention childishness, but I would say that's one quality evenly spread out amongst the entire cast. They all have aspects of themselves that are grounded in idiotic teenager territory.

By contrast:

We've got Inoue constantly banging on about how weak she is

I've written a lot on Orihime upthread. It's worth noting that while she does bang on about how weak she is, her actions give lie to this. You can seldom take these characters at face value in what they say about themselves. Inoue is just very insecure, weak she certainly isn't.

Hinamori's fawning over Aizen

Which is something that he's created in her using arguably the most powerful Zanpakuto we've encountered thus far. The tragedy of Hinamori is that he's used her strength against her, her actions themselves are that of an extraordinarily strong person who has been driven mad by magic. Kira doesn't have nearly so much of an excuse as Gin's Lieutenant (although you could argue that they've been subject to the same hypnosis, he hasn't had it to nearly the same extent), but I don't see him referenced as a *weak* character.

Ururu (no matter how powerful she turns out to be) is freakishly subservient and spineless.

We still know practically nothing about Ururu... all we know is there is much more to her than meets the eye. There's something very, very nasty in there waiting to come out. I wouldn't like to judge her until all the facts are in.

Yachiru is portrayed as being ubercute and, well, a cheerleader?

Yachiru is Bleach's own Daigoro. Everything hint we've had about her is that she's terrifyingly powerful, we just haven't seen her fight yet. She's the 11th's Lieutenant over Ikkaku, and this cannot be seen to be one of Kenpachi's affectations. I think her power level is likely to be close to that of her captain's.

Nemu (Mayuri's lieutenant)... well... she's a fucking nightmare for feminism isn't she?

Not fully, because she isn't a woman in the conventional sense. Yes, it would have been refreshing to see the same character in a male body, but perhaps the subtext of domestic violence in the relationship wouldn't have been nearly as clear. And it's worth noting that when Mayuri isn't around she has no problem in rebelling against him.

Not that I'm saying that Bleach doesn't have its sexist elements, because it clearly does. However it's often a lot more complicated than just that, and it's refreshingly honest about it for the most part. You could argue that the entire of the Soul Society arc is just about the rescue of the princess from the high tower... but I think that's doing Rukia a rather large injustice as a character. She's not just some passive prize for the hero, she's a friend and comrade who has changed their lives pretty much solely through her strength of character.

Ultimately Bleach is the archetypal boy's own adventure. You're going to have sexist elements in that. But compared to most texts of its type I'd say it's pretty even handed. Feminist it ain't, but there are far easier and less slippery targets.
 
  

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