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(I don't want this post to become involved in FFF and Haus' current debate - no offense to either of you. Also, I'm sorry for the length of this post, and having to litter this text with caveats and the likes; I'm shitting myself that I might be misinterpreted. And please try to read this post without hearing James Mason or Alex Guiness or another such potentially patronising voice. I'm really am trying to be respectful, careful and [hopefully] helpful).
I've spent ages writing this post and agonizing over whether I should post it here because my opinion of you, Haus, has changed over time and I don't want you to feel that I dislike you or harbour any malice towards you. Indeed, although I still feel you have been a little harsh with me at times, on the whole I have learnt from your comments on this board and consider you a very intelligent and erudite man. Sincerely.
However, you said in your opening post in this thread:
For some reason, I seem to act as a kind of lightning rod for aggravation around here. I don't entirely understand why this is, but I accept it as an unfortunate necessity, and I can't help but feel in some small way slightly responsible.
Therefore, I assume these arguments are causing you and others concern, and I think I might be able to help. Also, as there hasn't been much specific reference based answers to your post in this thread. (i.e. no evidence as toksik rightly hints at in his earlier post), I will therefore TRY to to explain why I've felt annoyed by you in the past, and why (as I just typed) I feel you have been a little harsh with me at times. Of course, this may be an isolated case, and your interaction with other members who feel as I have felt is likely to be different.
The example I'd like to use is the awful row I had with you in the Greenpeace Advert Thread.
(Please note; for the record: I now think "PC" is a bullshit term, or at the very least an ambiguous and misleading term, and agree that the Greenpeace ad has content which is homophobic and contributes to negative homophobic stereotyping.)
At the time I felt the ad was funny because I deplore Bush and Blair and their particular tenure of "The Special Relationship". I also wasn't convinced the Greenpeace ad was blatantly homophobic (as this wasn't why I'd laughed at it) and so I posted my thoughts accordingly. There followed some discussion (all well humoured as far as I can tell), from which I was learning and benefiting.
But then I went and typed a comment which included the following sentences:
Just quickly though, isn't it more (or, I suppose, maybe equally) insulting to transvestites? I think my gut feeling is that while the ad may contribute in a minor way to such negative stereotypes, we may be dangerously close to PC Hell on this one.
There was some more discussion after this post and I was very interested in what other members were saying. However, unfortunately that was when you (Haus) made your first comment in the thread, a comment that was (of course) a reply to me.
Police Constable Hell? Who he?
The comment was obviously a joke: but a joke which I felt was not laughing along with me, but laughing at me. It felt like you were performing to the stalls, sharing some "in-joke" and pointing at my words and laughing. It felt that way then; now I'm not so sure. It's hard to tell. However, at the time, I tried not to take the joke personally and replied:
LOL! I love the idea of a PC Hell making sure everyone's language is above board. Nice.
Which probably wasn't an idea you had hoped to invoke by your joke (I don't know), but like I said, I was trying to laugh along. Anyway, the conversation moved on with similar jokes, and interesting posts about the subject itself, "The Greenpeace Ad".
I must stress, however, that I was very much interested in what people were writing as began to read your next post. It started off well (as usual) and I was still interested, but then I came to this:
Likewise, PW, your suggestion that an opinion that does not tally with yours on whether and how something is offensive is Polical Correctness, and therefore manifestly wrong, is one that has cropped up quite a lot on Barbelith, and is usually responded to in about the same way.
And I was immediatly annoyed. (I've italicised the section which, at the time, I felt was grossly unfair and an insulting dismissal of what I'd previously said in-thread). Indeed, I still feel that your analysis of my previous comments was inaccurate: it wasn't what I'd said or a particularly accurate description of how I'd acted in the thread up until that point.
It didn't help that Flyboy then posted:
Can paranoidwriter explain what he thinks 'PC Hell' actually means? I'm sure that will be very educational.
...which I felt was patronising and unnecessary. It may have been sincere, but at the time I felt it wasn't. I still don't know.
(Not that I have any malice towards Flyboy either, and I think we're both cool with each other now).
Whatever, either way, I feel the conversation kind-of just went downhill from there really. Without realising it, I followed the "Poster X has a row with Haus" pattern, became gradually more wound-up, and felt more and more cornered, even though I came to regret using the term "PC" in the first place. Indeed, I'm not saying I wasn't to blame for how the row developed. Another member at the time even PM'ed me and told me not to bite and to take a step back. But obviously, I didn't head hir advise, and I'm sorry I didn't. Truly sorry.
Anyway, for a long time during and after that thread, I was very pissed off with both you (Haus) and Flyboy. Unfortunately, the fact that you also started the "Political Correctness - collation and discussion" thread didn't help either. I feel I know now what you were trying to do, i.e. move the discussion out of the Greenpeace thread to stop threadrot, and (as you put it in the thread summary) to pull " ... together recent discussions of Political Correctness, aiming to provide both a resource and a location for further discussion."
However, at the time I was already blinded by red mist and feeling insulted, so I felt the thread was more a continued attack on me and what I'd already said in the Greenpeace thread, than a good start for a fresh objective discussion about what PC is(n't) and means / doesn't mean.
Indeed, I felt annoyed that you had selectively copied and pasted my posts from what was a much larger context, i.e. the whole discussion in the Greenpeace Ad thread. Nor did you ask my permission to do so ( --something I now realise is a stupid thing to feel annoyed about, seeing as this IS the internet and all (etc), and (well) it's what I'm doing in this post, right? But at the time, I felt this was bad webiquette.)
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that although you proved to be right in what you were talking about (as usual), and although I was very much to blame in how that conversation developed, I still feel you (and Flyboy) are at least partially to blame (or at the very least your posts didn't help matters).
Of course, we're all human, and everyone has the right to respond how one choose's and to make mistakes sometimes: me, you, Flyboy, everyone. But that particular argument may have been helped or avoided if you and Flyboy had maybe been a little more patient and polite toward me, as I've since seen others be when a member mentions "PC".
It might also have helped matters if you (Haus) had started a completely new "PC - discussion" thread in Head Shop instead of summarizing what had already been said in another thread, with (say) just a link to Greenpeace Ad thread.
So, to try and sum up this long post (sorry), what have I learned from the "Greenpeace / PC" threads and my interactions with you and others?
1) We are all human. Even if we're just a brain in a jar, we're a human brain, non?
2) I will always have more to learn about successful and non-confrontational debating techniques (etc).
2) Everyone should at least try to be less sensitive when reading other members' responses. They may not mean what we think they mean and accurate use of language is a hard thing to master.
3) Try not to be rude: it hurts and certainly doesn't help matters.
4) Once again: "PC" is a bullshit term. And please note: I've avoided saying that in the PC thread, because, quite frankly, I wish the rascal would die every time I see it bob to the surface. However, I have admitted my mistake on other related threads...I think... well in this one, at least.
5) Apologising for being rude always makes a big difference. Even if you were right concerning the topic of conversation, it makes a big difference if one apologises for being nasty or rude during the process of that discussion.
Indeed, while I'm at it: apologies to Haus and Flyboy (and all of y'all) for my part in that particular row. I think I may have PM'ed both Haus and Flyboy and said as much in the past. But here it is again on public record, just in case.
Also, Haus, I hope I haven't inadvertantly insulted you by posting all this, and that by understanding more about how I felt at the time (and how I feel now about all this now ) you might get more insight into why some people get wound-up by you, and whether anything you do actually contributes to the problem (or not, as the case may be).
For the record, as far as I remember, I feel you've never apologised to me for your part in any of our previous rows; maybe because you feel you were never in the wrong (maybe not). Of course, if I'm wrong about this and you have apologised to me for being rude (etc), please show me where. Similarly, if you still feel you have never done anything wrong in your interactions with me, then no worries... You're probably right, and I'm probably too close to our past discussions to really know for sure.
(Oh, and to everyone: again, apologies for the length of this post and also the occasional shift from addressing Haus directly and in the third person. I even considered sending it as a PM to Haus instead. Maybe I should have. I dunno. I'm just trying to do the right thing. Anyhoo, I'm going to go away and hide [it's late] and I'll read your responses later. )
OK Barbelith, I'm done now... Please be gentle? |
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