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Grant Morrison's Batman

 
  

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Spaniel
16:24 / 03.11.07
I reckon the fact that his voice is slightly quieter in the mix is a good thing

I agree.

I've scaled back my expectations for this book and I'm enjoying it for the pulpy fun it is.
 
 
The Falcon
16:31 / 03.11.07
I'm not getting much a Deadman vibe from the book at the moment, but then I don't know anything about Bat's history with the character

Well, his religion's (god = Rama Kushna) kind of Mecca is Nanda Parbat and he possesses bodies to do Her work. It's pretty much straight vibin' Deadman, imo; there's an okay James Robinson Batman/Deadman book (ogn?) about from 12-15 years ago, you might find it in the library still - that's about all I know of the two's interaction. (Was there a hook-up during the original Crisis in Swamp Thing, maybe?)
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
19:13 / 03.11.07
They had a long history of team-ups back into the Seventies, as I recall, and Deadman was a frequent guest star in The Brave and the Bold; he's one of the oft-cited reasons why Batman's skepticism about magic and the afterlife is a little shaky.

And, yeah, as Falcon implies, Boston Brand's absence from the DCU lately seems palpable when they keep using his trappings. Though, I'm not sure what his situation is in light of that apparently unrelated Deadman Vertigo series.
 
 
Eskay Uno
19:23 / 03.11.07
This would have been a perfectly acceptable and fun issue if it didn't basically repeat the Pete Milligan story in the Batman annual released a few weeks ago. Seriously, the plot is so similar, this felt like a repeat and because of that it lost me. Talia already went through the crisis of going against her father's will to save Damien, why show it again? She was supposed to be on the run from her father's empire to protect Damien, not helping them retrieve Ra's. WTF? It's like the annual never happened, which is odd because Milligan is co-writing this cross-over, isn't he? Sloppy editorial coordination?
 
 
Spaniel
19:39 / 03.11.07
Cheers F&P. Very interesting. I'd love Deadman to show up.
 
 
LDones
23:47 / 03.11.07
It's like the annual never happened

Bingo. Because for some of us it didn't, and that's super.

I felt the drop in quality, the art is a bit ugly here and there - I don't think this is Tony Daniel's fault, exactly - his pencils from all previews are gorgeous, it just seems that his temporary pencil shading is being inked in awkward ways. His pencil work cries out for properly overwrought Richard Isanove-style photoshop paint masturbation.

Storyline certainly kicked off fast, and Ra's really drives home the Anti-ASS of this comic - someone else trying to cheat inevitable death by feeding on the young.

Damian is a great fucking Robin. Grabbing the rebellion portion of Miller's Carrie Kelley thing without switching genders - disarming the homoerotic angle by dealing straight on with the absent-father complex on the character's shoulders.

So much of Morrison's work is about embracing ridiculousness or absurdity to cope with the inevitability of death.

I'm eager to see how the whole crossover plays out, but ready to think of it as an interlude before more Three Ghosts action sets in after a month or two.

--

I hate to say that you have to lower expectations to enjoy the book, even if it seems that way, but... it's good disposable pulp with a solid through-line of very human themes and ideas, which is rare enough in the marketplace.

Sometimes I think Grant Morrison's simply cornered a very specific niche market of simple populist fantasy fiction for warm and compassionate nihilists.
 
 
Spaniel
16:48 / 04.11.07
Nihilists?
 
 
Mug Chum
16:59 / 04.11.07
Ze cuttzzaff ya chonson!
 
 
LDones
20:35 / 04.11.07
Nihilism may be more expressing my own feelings on the situation; though I do dislike the term because it implies to me a certain sense of camp petulance and post-parental rebellion. Nihilist is probably the wrong word. Technically I feel it fits, in that I've seen it defined as a doctrine that "maintains that religious and moral truths are entirely irrational". I think Morrison's work bears this view out, but comes to different conclusions than traditional nihilism might - that is, that embracing and using and amplifying that irrational state of the world is not just inevitable, but useful if handled with grace - and destructive if not handled responsibly.

I've never found Morrison's work more cogent or more affecting than I do with his latest stuff, from 7 Soldiers to ASS to this. It seems to me, as he gets older, that he draws more attention to the fundamental contradictions in what people might call mystical world-views in his stories. He embraces more powerfully and, even highlights, that these things don't make certain sense, that they're allegorical, and they have their real roots as extensions of very simple, base, human experiences in our world - a world that doesn't make much sense a great deal of the time.

From Greg Feely joining a day-glo fantasy-fascist super-agency that expresses his desperate need for sense and significance in a miserable existence where he can't make positive change in his own life, to the simple fact that the central conceit in 7 Soldiers (that there are 7 extraordinary warriors chosen for special destiny to survive great trials) doesn't hold water in its own narrative. Anyone can be one of these soldiers, even the reader - which, if I understood correctly, Haus has asserted is part of the allegory behind the Spoils of Annwn. I could have mistaken his meaning, I'm certainly not a scholar of any kind.

These breakdowns of sense or structure in his work (however unavoidable they are for him as a writer) aren't an accident.

It's possible (likely, even) that what I respond to in his work these days is my own continually dawning sense of senselessness without creating a network of grander personal metaphors to cope.

A film like The Seventh Seal (which hangs heavy over so many of Morrison's stories) illustrates the same point, where the Devil is fear, the only survivors are a family of actors who love God against all sense, and the Dance of Death in the closing images implies that all art, commerce, religion, politics, and love are motivated by the inevitability of death.

Not to say that Morrison's comics are massively profound as a rule. I've been hugely moved by many of them, but I think they're thoughtful, well-considered pop entertainments that simply have a very human world-view like this somewhere behind them.

Despite atmosphere and way sweet and hilarious ninja beatings and bat-rockets, Morrison's Batman is struggling with fears of inadequacy, guilt, anxiety over the absence of his own parents in his life and his own implied absence in the face of his wards, his own wayward son, and the unexpected responsibilities of adulthood - and this gently fatalistic kind of view of struggling to keep up with (let alone overcome) life's random tragedies runs through the themes of each of the admittedly few arcs in his run.

My very personal interpretation, surely, but I think it holds some water when examining his comics, and his Batman run in particular.
 
 
Mug Chum
21:23 / 04.11.07
I'd agree that there's a healthy dose of humourous nihilism in his work but I wouldn't stamp as nihilist, if only for some of the attempts to maintain a certain dose of wide-eye smiley optimism in some solid ground that offer stability for bridges so people connect. I feel too there's an acceptance of a possible meaningless status in things, but it feels as though turned into something positive -- even if only for its sheer desire to be so, ex nihilo, as though even that lack of meaning might ultimately be just another unhumorous reading that shouldn't take itself so serious. His latest works more so than the old stuff, seems to me (even if they feel at times to have an older man's trace of disappointments and jaded views).

His Batman is something I'm finding odd, in the sense that there's a bit too much of these anxieties and fears to just have a wild fun ride (and personally, feeling they're not being treated so nicely -- neither seriously well conclusive nor having fun with them, neither elegant nor even all that organically messy). And a bit too much pulpy to be seriously into these dark corners. I was expecting more pulpy disposable fun. So it ends up being neither properly here nor there.

And so it feels iffy. It's not really Arkham Asylum (thank God, really) but it's not so much superbond scifi-closet lovegod. Just somewhere in between I can't really find my way in.

(and, btw, I wasn't taking a piss in any way up there. If it came off like that - that being my fear after reading it a second time - I apologize. Just saw a cheap oportunity to quote one of the Dude's source of anxiety)
 
 
superdonkey
06:32 / 05.11.07
The new Ra's reminds me strongly of Serpentor.. Odd.
 
 
Spaniel
09:16 / 05.11.07
I think people are using nihilism slightly differently from the way we used it on my philosophy degree, although thinking about it there may well be a case to be made.
 
 
Mug Chum
12:56 / 05.11.07
Well I took it as meaning the lack (of possible comprehension) of essential meaning or inherent value in the universe.

Or just "we beeleez in novzing, Labawzki".
 
 
Spaniel
14:37 / 05.11.07
Yup, that's my take on the term
 
 
LDones
18:25 / 05.11.07
Again, it's probably the wrong word to use, but I'm not sure what would be more appropriate.

I think I do refer to a lack of fundamental meaning or value observed in the world from the vantage point of Morrison comics; but one that requires an acceptance of fabricated meaning or value in order to sustain life, rather than one that rejects any possible sense. I think Morrison's stories argue that you can't help but create some kind of sense where none exists.

There's a pretty vivid dualistic conflict in his work between schools of good coping and bad coping in the face of this; with one side on the anarchistic/ destructive/ narcissistic end (Lex Luthor, the Sheeda, Ra's Al Ghul, Solaris, the man in the moon from Flex Mentallo), and the other on the empathetic/ compassionate/ constructive end (the heroes). Which may sound obvious, but the basis of the conflict is important.

Rather than good or evil squaring off, you get two parties dealing with the same problem in polar ways; and the problem is almost invariably the inevitability of tragedy, death, or senselessness - like a spiritual version of the second law of thermodynamics, a metaphor Morrison's used before with Neh-buh-loh in 7S. Heroes respond with acceptance, and generally struggle to find ways to be constructive in the face of the problem. Villains respond with iron-handed control or destructive, petulant nihilism/narcissism.

There are exceptions. Darkseid is notable because he's kind of an embodiment of these things, of cosmic dissolution and misery as a solvent for life. Rather than coping poorly with general entropy and pain, he IS those things; making him one of the few totally evil presences in these stories.

It's a thread you can follow from Doom Patrol all the way to ASS and Batman. Some of his stories put a kind of glossy sheen on playful self-worship or decadence as coping mechanisms and some downplay this, some do present a more traditional plot for protagonists to contend with; but you're largely dealing with stories about people on all sides of the conflict facing existential emptiness, trying to fill the hole without losing themselves to it, and the emotional consequences of that struggle.

The logistical plots are secondary to that conflict, which I'm sure is part of the reason a lot of Grant Morrison's stories seem unresolved or random to so many readers by the end.

It's a testament to his quality as a writer that the logistical plots are still as entertaining and rewarding and fun as they are, but if the themes satisfy I'm much less critical of the suspense. I find suspense to be a pretty low aspiration in a writer, anyway. And this may explain why I find his Batman as enjoyable as I do, as it's a moderately low-expectation ride that nevertheless has a deep, admirable structure of themes behind it.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:43 / 19.11.07
Dan DiDio confirmed/stated publicly at the recent WizardWorld Texas convention that:

>> Grant Morrison will remain on Batman throughout 2008 and beyond.

Niiiice!
 
 
Haus of Mystery
18:18 / 19.11.07
That's actually great news. I was re-reading a few issues recently and thinking how much I'd like him to stick around longer than his predicted 15 issues. I like reading a Batman comic regularly. In my heart he's still my fave superhero, despite the terrible mangling and overxposure he's had as a charcter since Miller's seminal reinterpretation. I also think Morrison's run has been colourful splattery fun; a nice fusion of many Bat-styles. I particularly enjoyed 666's bizarro future vision (unlike most people it seemed), and am hankering for Mozzer to create some interesting new Bat-foes.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
11:21 / 23.11.07
off-topic:

Here we present Dostoyevsky Comics, originally printed in Drawn and Quarterly #3 (2000)(...). Crime and Punishment, originally written by Fyodor Dostoyevsky, was brilliantly adapted here by R. Sikoryak, as seen through a Dick Sprang Batman filter.

 
 
FinderWolf
01:41 / 30.11.07
today: Grant Morrison again turns in the best-written of the 'Return of Ra's Al Ghul' crossover stuff. (which comes as no shock to anyone, I'm sure)
 
 
LDones
06:59 / 30.11.07
Still feels a bit flat as a story, though the cute assumption that Ra's Al Ghul tricked Batman into murdering his dad for him is fairly amusing. Inking and coloring continue to feel really off.

For any keeping score, the previous 3 non-Moz issues went as follows:

1) Robin hates Damian. Alfred loves Damian. Milligan's Damian elicits a chuckle.

2) Nightwing has painful internal monologue, saves the three supervillains who were presumably arrested in the last 'Batman' issue while Damian and Robin get kidnapped by ninjas.

3) Dini writes painful dialogue. Art is ugly. Ra's offers Tim sex before hitting him in the face. Bruce decides to wear chainmail in the snow.

You didn't miss much, and I suspect you will miss just as little with the final 3 issues of this crossover. It's probably much more interesting as 2 disjointed Morrison issues that leave Ra's Al Ghul as a hairless Asian whistler-at-large somewhere in the world.

I'll read them just in case, though. For you.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:35 / 30.11.07
I actually really enjoyed this. I thought Daniel's art was improved over last issue (the actual art style as well as the storytelling flow), and thought it was appropriately epic-feeling. Ra's father, for the first time revealed! Ra's dies! But then lives again! Batman 'dies'! But then lives again! Pretty cool stuff. Ra's saying to Bats that they're all 'family' again, now. Batman lasting 'just one minute longer' than a marauding, super-deadly old psycho ninja dude. What's not to like?
 
 
Mark Parsons
22:35 / 30.11.07
I'm skipping the non Moz issues of this, and thus far have enjoyed the two tales, although I am eager for GM to get back on his own track. Will the cross-over weave back to BATMAN?
 
 
LDones
19:53 / 01.12.07
Ends in Detective, by Dini.

I'd suggest skipping the rest, if only to see what the dissonance is like going to Morrison's next epilogue-ish issue.
 
 
The Falcon
20:10 / 02.12.07
I think the next Batman has some kind of aftermath; it looks like it's not going to go well for young Tim Drake, all in all.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
18:16 / 05.12.07
last BATMAN i read was #666. so bear with me.

has a BatDamien ongoing\oneshot\mini been announced yet?

why not?

it was great, i felt like a kid again reading this. Damien's grown to become a perfect Batman for that crooked future, which feels so much as our present.

if Bruce's Alpha Male Plus, Damien in Alpha Demon, the cheater like he is. loved how there was a quasi-BLADE RUNNER atmosphere [the asian investigator triggered that even more], even if there was no flying batmobile - a shitty future doesn't allow for much cultural innovations.

it was all hithit-hit until the explodo end, with a burning Lucifer Drake [it was him, wasn't it] hanging on a spike and GPD going after BaldBats.

Alfred the cat! i mean, why isn't there a solo book for this?
 
 
Haus of Mystery
19:16 / 05.12.07
I agree.

Thought the last issue was OKish, naturally hurt by the fact I didn't really know what was happening. Nice McDaniel art though which surprised me, especially the opening splash page.
Would a recap page have fucking killed DC to insert? All part of Didio's ongoing quest to drive away both longtime and new readers. Well done!
 
 
Triplets
00:28 / 15.12.07
Guys, are the "Resurrection of Ra's!" titles actually written by Baldy or someone else, because I don't want to pick up any non-Moz issues.
 
 
Triplets
00:29 / 15.12.07
And, really, should this whole arc be called "Ra's-urrection!!" (with two exclamation points)? Yes?

Yes.
 
 
FinderWolf
03:10 / 15.12.07
every time I skim the non-Mozzer issues (like this week, for example), they just come off as baaaaad. Tim really wants to use the Lazarus Pit to bring his Dad back to life? And Dick/Nightwing really has to fight him and make him see sense? REALLY...?

Looking forward to when this is all over. I agree that Ra's is too classic a villain to leave "dead", and it makes sense that they gave it a few years before he came back to life. (Rucka's mini where he "dies" is pretty strong, by the way) And Damian is a good addition to the mythos. Just wish this storyline was better-written across the board...
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
21:43 / 15.12.07
who came up with this batverse crossover?

just read the morrison issues and they are the least interesting of the mozz run so far. daniel's art doesn't help either.

the guy can deliver an issue in time [which is key in regular good selling monthly titles, as we all know] but i'd rather wait to have another artist take kubert's place.
 
 
Mug Chum
21:20 / 22.12.07
I just saw a page of some other crossover issue where Batman (face not shaved) is throwing an old man (I think it's Rah's daddy) into ninjas with one hand while screaming at Damian how they are at war, and he should kill some men. And how it's brutal and ugly (meaning, real men face it blabla). All being justified, of course, by the real urgency at hand, because Batman is right. It's a war, you know.

Am I really that wrong in thinking people are liking All Star Bats' Batman straightfacedly a bit too much (and that he'll probably be more and more into the 'main' character)?
 
 
The Falcon
16:39 / 23.12.07
I don't understand the bracketed portion of your last paragraph, z, but I'd be interested (read: probably quite annoyed) to know about the correct way and amount to like Frank Miller's latest Batman comic.
 
 
Mug Chum
17:26 / 23.12.07
I don't know. That it's funny in its loonacy (or "it's satire!") instead of dead right serious.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
17:52 / 23.12.07
Well, the Sensei has been incinerated several issues before the one you're refering to, anyway. The problem with this story arc is not that it is too bloodthirsty, but rather that it is too generic. And shit.
 
 
Mug Chum
18:04 / 23.12.07
I agree. I don't think it's bloodthirsty, but there was that steroid Liefeld element of screamyface and throwing-people-with-one-hand, combined with Miller's supermanly trope that it's exagerated just enough to the point where you can deny any silliness called on (but still be able to enjoy it for the goddamn toughness it's supposed to be).

Yeah, perhaps just generic comic book shit.

I'm sorry to 'complain' like this, even more about a issue I haven't read entirely. But I was trying to look around to see if the other issues contextualize Morrison's part into something a bit more appealing.
 
  

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