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Grant Morrison's Batman

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TimCallahan

06:09 / 11.08.07

Thanks J.H.!

I think your use of pastiche for the character styles is hugely significant to the meaning of the issue.

From my point of view, what you did is the equivalent of someone like Herman Melville naming his Moby Dick characters after characters in the Bible. It's the type of technique that adds immediate weight and depth to the characters through allusion.

FinderWolf

13:55 / 11.08.07

I love the Black Glove blows up all the vehicles-but-good double-page spread. Very cool -- looks like it could an old '60s movie poster with the jagged hand design.

And how great was 'the crooks all watch gangster movies, so you're almost obliged to go the badass route these days, mate'?

Loved seeing the spread of the Roman/Centurion/whatever his actual name is in his glory days as he croaks.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:31 / 11.08.07

That spread as the Legionary dies -- his glory days in faded comic book yellow running along the middle -- was beautiful for all its Bosch dripping blood. It's a very visceral two page spread.

The Black Glove -- who was probably inspired to take up that identity by the Mayhew flick, or at least inspired to kill Mayhew because of it -- definitely stepped out of an old mystery thriller movie. I don't know. Maybe the solution to the mystery is that he's an actor from way back. As it stands, I picture him(?) with Cary Grant's voice as he walks around in darkness. Cary Grant shrouded in shadow, having just killed his old director, nursing his (presumed) scars, plotting a really whiz-bang third act...

Spaniel

20:00 / 11.08.07

The Black Glove? Possibly a ref to the blacking up of Batman's costume (away from the blue - when he was depanted)- a serious BLACK Batman for a serious BLACK world.

And why is he wearing a face as his cowl. Did that little detail have any importance other than being importantly gross?

Also, the Black Glove chimes perfectly with the super old skool brand of Bat-baddie. You know, when it were written by Bob Cane.

The Falcon

20:16 / 11.08.07

It is really 'Ten Little [Offensive Stereotypes]', though, eh? 'Game of five-a-side'? JH literally dropping the ball there, I think - I imagine Grant wrote 'football' in the script and - like any American would; "I'm a Christian, I forgive him" - he drew a rugby. Which is played in sevens.

Notably, however, there are actually a World XI of Batmen there, so I think one - possibly Wingman, like Ozymandius, is the wolf in the fold. He does seem a bit obviously sinister, maybe. I think that's the Christie mystery element, peut-être?

Spaniel

20:32 / 11.08.07

Yes, sorry to bring it up, JH, but I have been wondering about that American Football.

Spaniel

20:36 / 11.08.07

When Grant wrote "five-a-side" did he specify the sport?

Swingball.

Of course.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

21:54 / 11.08.07

And why is he wearing a face as his cowl. Did that little detail have any importance other than being importantly gross?

Well, it reverberates Orlando, and it also suggests an air of theatricality (reinforced by "The Black Glove" as old school mystery flick directed by Mayhew back in the day) -- he initially appears to the assembled Club on a video tape, "playing" Mayhew before revealing that he isn't Mayhew. That suggests he wanted to continue lulling them with a false sense of security before making the horrible truth of the island getaway come alive for them. It also echoes Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs, more filmic psychosis.

Alex's Grandma

22:54 / 11.08.07

JHW;

I know it's a bit much to ask, but do you, by any chance, have Grant's phone number? We're good mates, Grant and I, (I'm not one of those people, nothing could be further from the truth) but I seem to have mislaid my mobile, which had his details on it.

Thanks in advance!

jhw3

00:08 / 12.08.07

if i'm not mistaken i blelieve that grant specified a rugby ball. my google search produced what i drew. i too thought it looked too much like an "american" football. as far as the lingo grant uses for the game reference...i wouldn't have had the idea that it was the wrong kind of ball he asked for. not very versed in european sports myself.

Triplets

00:09 / 12.08.07

I too have mislaid my mobile, JHW³.

It's a common problem.

jhw3

00:11 / 12.08.07

alex's grandma's...
email me through my website and i will forward your email to grant. no offense but i just can't give out his number to someone i don't know especially without his permission.

FinderWolf

00:20 / 12.08.07

I think Alex's Grandma was kidding.

Right?

This Sunday

00:33 / 12.08.07

Were you there for swingball, FW? I was; I saw it all. Alex's Grandma wasn't there, either, nor Grant Morrison. But I was.

Really, hasn't this 'I'm his secret bestest best fried, no really we went to the zoo one time' thing died an unnatural death, yet?

Just two more issues of jhw3 art, then? Somehow I'd made up in my head that this would last a long while.

FinderWolf

00:46 / 12.08.07

I thought the same thing about that joke, Nightfall...

jhw3

02:32 / 12.08.07

i kind figured it wasn't real.

and yes just 2 more issues. and then i'm off to a much bigger commitment that won't see the light of day for a long while. in the meantime i will be finishing up an issue of jonah hex. just 8 pages to go. nice and gritty westerny stuff. also i'm still going to be doing crossing midnight covers monthly. meanwhile grant and i will start plans for our creator owned project, but that won't be making it to the shelves for a very long time because of prior commitments. needless to say i'm going to be very busy over the next 3 years.

LDones

05:53 / 12.08.07

Well amen to that.

I imagine that Black Glove is one of the guys in the Club of Heroes. Red Raven sure is young and angry enough, and dovetails with ideas about bad sons of crappy dads. He won't even look at Batman when they sit at the table - just purses his lips and stares straight ahead, although maybe he's just staring at his totally uncool dad and his mask.

Black Glove's speech patterns, as written, are kind of weird. Makes me think he's sick or not a native English speaker.

I wonder how much purging of the Racist Closet will actually go on to purify the bat-world and if any of these characters will be spared, Cyril included. I have my doubts.

Mario

15:22 / 12.08.07

This may be obvious... but the last time we saw the Knight and the Squire, theyd been sent on a one-way trip into Qwewq. So when did they get out?

Or did they?

LDones

16:57 / 12.08.07

I'd be surprised if they touch on that at all. That's secret closet material.

Mario

22:41 / 12.08.07

Or Casebook X?

Alex's Grandma

22:59 / 12.08.07

Really, hasn't this 'I'm his secret bestest best fried, no really we went to the zoo one time' thing died an unnatural death, yet?

Oh, all right then. I feel like I'm being bullied though.

Mug Chum

04:20 / 13.08.07

I like those jokes (but I only found out about them only recently lurking in old threads, so...)

/threadrot

I'm still waiting out for the story to give life signs. Very little happened, but it's an overall good promise ("five little ________" mystery and old times secret closet/ blackcase book X of imaginative loose fun; the black book reminds me thematicly, although obviously in a different function, of the Black K in Moz's A.S.S.). But JH's art at least tingles somebody into wanting to buy the trade paperback (hoping with some extras -- what's up with Morrison's TPs that never come with anything?). It's really something (fulfilling the overall 'seriously realistic' checklist while being able to work with some believable colorful designs and concepts).

FinderWolf

14:55 / 13.08.07

If you think that's being 'bullied,' then be glad you've come to Barbelith at a time when there's much less of that going around and everyone is much more civil. To my mind, you're being 'bullied' with a feather .... people are good-naturedly teasing about a joke you made (which just happens to have been made a million times before, which maybe you weren't aware of - no biggie either way). Anyway, seriously, no one is ganging up on you, just giving you a bit of joshing.

Moving on.

I am curious to hear more about The Black Glove, too - loved those old movie posters. And I guess the 'wearing of the guy's skin' doesn't serve any purpose than a) being a 'kewl' gross-out and b) showing us the villain is really BAAAAADDD-ASSS and twisted. at least, that's what I get so far.

FinderWolf

14:57 / 13.08.07

>> I imagine that Black Glove is one of the guys in the Club of Heroes. Red Raven sure is young and angry enough, and dovetails with ideas about bad sons of crappy dads.

oooo, I like that idea.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:32 / 13.08.07

I don't, actually. Having one of the Club turn out to be a very bad man, wolf-in-sheep's-clothing routine is ... tired? I suppose, on the one hand, it would lead to a mystery for Batman to solve, but it's a bit cliche at this point. I actually rather like the idea that the Black Glove might turn out to be a villain from another Club member's Rogues Gallery-- say, the Knight's equivalent of Two-Face or something.

Mug Chum

15:39 / 13.08.07

I thought the Black Glove could be the (only apt and suitable) hand to open the black casebook.

I mean, he did bring back already a reunion of the colorful prejudicious past already. Sort of works like the Hand of Glory, you know, maybe. A cursor, our hands, Moz's hand, for a gritty-grim thing. To unfold certain things, to be the agent penetrating and creating the mystery; the, well, cursor...

Spaniel

16:54 / 13.08.07

I agree with you, Papers. I'd like the villain to come from outside the group.

Jamie

17:04 / 13.08.07

I suppose the issue is, does the reader want this to be a "play fair" muder mystery, or a more comic-book-traditional "didn't see that coming" plot?

I don't think there's been enough characterization to the Clubbers for it to really matter one way or the other. Although I do agree that the "hero gone bad" feels like its been done to death right now.

So maybe it's the Skrulls?

The Natural Way

17:07 / 13.08.07

Finderwolf, you must stop taking Granny seriously.

Anyway....

_Boboss

17:53 / 13.08.07

like, you can't play seven-a-side if there's only ten of you on the island, no matter what shape the ball is. okay eleven, but i asked beryl and she said rugby's for cunts and she won't be joining in.

it looks like the knight is the one at the mo - mysterious escape from qwewq, kicking the bomb at the planes, 'it's all dead here'. are we thinking prometheus is involved at all? right kind of helmet, not really his m.o though...

great issue. nasty, tense and dramatic - i thought i didn't mind the kubert stuff but damn look at the different tones you get from the story when a proper artist is involved.

Mr Tricks

18:10 / 13.08.07

This may be obvious... but the last time we saw the Knight and the Squire, theyd been sent on a one-way trip into Qwewq. So when did they get out?

I just figured the "one-way" trip was renegotiated, and Knight & Squire commute to and from Qwewq on a modified Knight Saucer™

Why should BATMAN be the only DC hero with a sci-fi closet?

The Falcon

18:49 / 13.08.07

Basically if you ever read The Authority, if it's ever possible, if you want to, of course then how they escape from the real world is pretty much how Knight and Squire escape. Imagine it tonally as redrawn by McGuinness.

So, like Knight doesn't fight the occupying forces in Iraq, etc. But they fail to cure the sick universe.

Re: a secret baddie, having never actually read And Then There Were None, I may have just jumped to a tediously obvious conclusion - I do like my mysteries to play fair, to some extent, but it seems even the ur-text here is not so plain.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

19:23 / 13.08.07

Certainly not plain -- the mystery isn't about the identity of the killer so much as it is locating the killer...he's presented as being apart from all of them, a individual...

On the other hand, the obvious twist is that the video was pre-recorded by one of the Club's own members, who wore Mayhew's skin as a disguise, lampooning the Club's own love of masks. But such a ruse seems sort of dull. If he were one of the other Batmen's rogues, that would fill out some of their backstory and suggest that phantom history, all those comic books that exist in potential...

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