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Underground > Comic Books >

Grant Morrison's Batman

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Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

13:51 / 20.08.07

Apparently #668 is out this week -- have they all been coming out this fast? Bang-bang-bang, like that? Either way, Beryl with cognac in hand is almost in arm's reach...

ou didn't have to read any other Batmans to read this one - oh, 'kay, Robin's got an armstrain which he sustained against Baneman two back,

Actually, you don't even need context for Robin's arm being injured -- they're Batman and Robin! They sustain injuries all the time. I just assumed he'd run afoul of some villain, which makes this little arc even more self-contained.

As for 52 as well as the Knight & Squire's presence, how it's working with past continuity -- well, for one thing, it's been well over a year DCU-time since the Ultramarines went into Qwewq, and time flows differently inside it, and in between Seven Soldiers and 52 was the Infinite Crisis sheningans, which may have altered the progression of events ever so slightly.

Hell, maybe the Knight was acting weird because, you know, he doesn't want to mention that slightly embarassing time when he got involved with the Ultramarines because he doesn't want Batman to judge him.

This post was brought to you by the letters "Fan" and "Wank," as well as the Number "Fiffffdetu."

17:07 / 20.08.07

Apparently #668 is out this week -- have they all been coming out this fast? Bang-bang-bang, like that?

Haha, no. I believe this arc's on a biweekly to make up for the previous ropey release schedule.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

17:27 / 20.08.07

Either way, it's a mid-week happy for me. A mid-week Bat-happy!

Only, not in a dirty way.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

17:33 / 20.08.07

(Well, maybe in a dirty way if there's some Beryl/Timness to be had)

Uatu.is.watching

19:47 / 20.08.07

I also tend to think that this story won't really reference the JLAC arc. Any explanation for the Knight & Squire being returned to our universe should also note that Vixen has somehow also returned, and I really can't see them opening up that can of worms just for a hero-gone-bad twist. I think this Grant'll try to keep things somewhat self-contained.

01:19 / 21.08.07

If this is really and truly out this week, I am sooooo happy. Thanks for the good news.

19:40 / 22.08.07

and... it is out indeed!

I doubt, like many others here, that we will get anything about Neb-Uh-Loh here.

Anyway, this is great stuff.... Robin does some fine detecting and there is a Robyn/Squire teamup but no flirtation (darn it!). We see things unravel some more and now we have more theorize about/guess.

When the bad guys get 'their children', methinks Bats chuckles because he knows just how much damage 'the children' can do...

21:10 / 22.08.07

Well there is the reference to "mind controlled by a gorilla."

that's probably the closest we'll get.

Some excellent double page compositions and color as well. A+

BATMAN does know what Robin and Squire are both capable of. She's pretty good in his opinion after all.

I'm liking Goucho more and more.

21:10 / 22.08.07

Best looking book of the week. More mystery than answers though. And GM's JLAC arc is indeed referenced (by way of Grodd's antics in that caper), so maybe there will be a Neb-u-lo conection after all. Loved how Batman pop-quizes Robin in the library to see if he's spotting all the clues. In all the Bat-books I've ever read, I can't remember the last time Bats was actually training/mentoring his sidekicks while on a case. Fun stuff!

14:17 / 23.08.07

While I can appreciate the art from an aesthetic point of view, the innovative layouts are actually making it a bit harder for me to follow the story. That's probably more a failing of mine than the artist's, though; I'm not a very visual person.

I'm glad to see the mystery will be resolved next issue.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

14:41 / 23.08.07

I liked the pages that had the layouts with the hands and the bat symbol, really slick looking stuff.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:10 / 23.08.07

When the bad guys get 'their children', methinks Bats chuckles because he knows just how much damage 'the children' can do...

That moment was mint. Tim has, I should think, proven himself to be the smartest of the Robins, and this Squire is far more capable than Cyril was when he was the Squire. They're dangerous, I think, because they're both almost preternaturally capable on their own and they're not just sidekicks - they're apprentice heroes. The question is, is Raven Red still alive and in there with them? "Club of Sidekicks!"

It's also worth noting that this issue shows that Morrison isn't afraid to let other people besides Batman prove to be capable. El Gaucho, for example, taking out the robot scorpion.

"You still think one man is doing this? Mayhew failed with his Club of Heroes. Who can say...? Maybe he thought he could succeed with a Club of Villains?" LOVE. I want there to be a Club of Villains.

... Actually, it makes a kind of sense. If the Black Glove is guiding the "game," being the gamesmaster, maybe he's selected a Club of Villains to represent Evil while he stands more in the middle? As middle as you can be wearing a dead man's face.

The (final) revelation of Wingman is grotesque, tragic, and elegant -- seeing exactly who he was, back in the day, how he came to "darken" with the Deconstructionists...

Mozzer's still doing a wonderful job of hinting at and fleshing out the "invisible comic book adventures" of the Club. They all have a clown or a mime.

15:38 / 23.08.07

Morrison's writing Batman as a team player when he needs to be sure has changed over the years, hasn't it? From the Grumpy Gus in JLA #2 who's all "I don't like working with poorly trained, brightly costumed superheroes" to the ten-years-later model, who will tell you that in Argentina, El Gaucho is a top crimefighter and national hero, thank you very much.

It always puts a smile on my face when Batman compliments someone because you're conditioned not to expect it.

16:06 / 23.08.07

Am I the only one who got a real "Newsboy Army" vibe from this issue? The whole "Heroic group breaks up after traumatic event at a meeting" thing...

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

16:10 / 23.08.07

Detective Comics!...starring Grumpy Gus. This issue: Grumpy Gus versus the Violently Happy Ending! Is Grumpy Gus finished?

I suppose the thing with Batman is - and Waid seems to get this too - that to be ultra-competent, there'd have to be some some social skills in there somewhere, and his best friend is Big Blue. Grumpy Batman is just another role for him to play, but that doesn't change the fact that he can be incredibly caring and capable of building a family around himself or, ultimately, being competent enough to know when to acknowledge other people's skills.

17:32 / 23.08.07

Speculation: I'm wondering if that's actually Wingman in the Wingman outfit when we see the scorched body--or someone else. Also, isn't it kinda weird that Ranger disappears with Red Raven only to reappear in mid-battle without the sidekick (who is, coincidentally, concurrently the subject of some kind of revelation elsewhere?) I'm suspicious.

Also suspicious of Chief Man-of-Bats, only because of the Knight's line--"Big Bloke--made me swallow something--" and Chief is the biggest bloke of the set.

My curiosity's peaked by Batman's line in this issue: "We have to wonder who had the most to lose when the club of heroes went down."

My guess, given the implied loss of potential 'global media exposure', is Wingman and Man-of-Bats, since both were joining the team at that time. I dunno. Maybe the traitor is one of the Batmen gathered (as Wingman himself stated) but at this point, I'm not sure who. Or it could just be a big bad villain somewhere else in the house, but you have to wonder...

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

17:49 / 23.08.07

I dunno. It seems that the Black Glove's taking advantage of the Agatha Christie allegory to set them potentially at each other's throats, have them finish each other off if it comes to that, like the earlier Club meeting finished the Club.

22:22 / 23.08.07

I am coming round to the idea that Mayhew cut off his own face and is alive.

Essential Dazzler

22:32 / 23.08.07

Nothing to add except that was the best final page of a comic for ages wasn't it?

Cowboy Scientist

23:54 / 23.08.07

Hey, did you see who's gonna be writing "Robin" for the tie-in to the "Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul" story?

Here's a clue: It starts with a "P" and rhymes with "Eater Milligan"!

Essential Dazzler

00:48 / 24.08.07

I agree that is brilliant news, but wouldn't it be so much better if there wasn't a crossover over at all? I mean, it wasn't long ago that I dropped Detective Comics because it was shit.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

00:54 / 24.08.07

And, when did R'as Al Ghul go away or die or whatever, anyway? Isn't he always around? I'm a little tired of R'as and Talia, truth be told.

...but a Humpty Dumpty arc. THAT would be cool.

Spyder Todd 2008

01:24 / 24.08.07

I think he died in that "Death and the Maidens" miniseries a few years back. But I'm not sure, because I didn't pick it up. Because I didn't care.

Cowboy Scientist

01:39 / 24.08.07

Hh, I misread the thing, I tought that "The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul" was just a multi-part story in the main Batman book, with the Robin issue being just a spin-off thing.

To hell with this, I say. I don't want to buy all the Batman titles to read this story. (And I wont, I probably will just get "Batman" as usual, and "Robin" 'cos it has the Milligan)

03:01 / 24.08.07

The Return of Ra's is indeed a multi-title story. 7 parts I believe, with Paul Dini on Detective and Fabian Nicieza (!) on Nightwing.

And for all you Milligan lovers out there, check out the Batman Annual shipping next week. Sort of a prelude to the crossover from what I hear.

14:36 / 24.08.07

I am coming round to the idea that Mayhew cut off his own face and is alive.

He's the only figure to have appeared in the comic that isn't a member of the Club of Heroes or a sidekick thereof, which makes him a suspect.

He had the most to lose from the self-destruction of the Club -- it was his money, after all, and it was his brainchild. Everyone else got to go home and be crimefighters of note in their home countries. He had to live with being a failure as the bankroller of a superhero team -- and it looks like that was the last thing he tried to do with all of his money, after having been something of a Howard Hughes millionaire with success in films and elsewhere.

So he has been stewing in his own juices, ruminating over his failure, and is now looking to take his vengeance on those he holds responsible, while also giving them the chance to be the hero team they always could have been by working together to solve the mystery.

14:48 / 24.08.07

If Mayhew cut off his own face then who's face is under his face? Are you saying he had an accomplice willing to use the faceknives?

The Black Glove did refer to The Black Glove in the plural after all, "we will provide a fantastic service" etc.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

14:58 / 24.08.07

The Black Glove did refer to The Black Glove in the plural after all, "we will provide a fantastic service" etc.

Could also refer to the hypothetical Club of Villains, who might have a better taste in team names. Black Globe = Five fingers clad in black, five villains in masks. Hell, Mayhew might just be faking the Face-Mask with some Hollywood FX.

Also-- did Batman really have to go to Mayhew's island to figure out what bored rich playboys do? Did he work with Maxwell Lord for a few years?

01:47 / 26.08.07

You all seem to appreciate Batman #668, but comics scholar Geoff Klock thinks its pretty crappy and challenged anyone to convice him that he's wrong. I rose to the challenge here:

Why Batman #668 is Great: A Review

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

05:40 / 27.08.07

I suppose the thing with Batman is - and Waid seems to get this too - that to be ultra-competent, there'd have to be some some social skills in there somewhere, and his best friend is Big Blue. Grumpy Batman is just another role for him to play, but that doesn't change the fact that he can be incredibly caring and capable of building a family around himself or, ultimately, being competent enough to know when to acknowledge other people's skills.

Y'know I'm quite liking the idea of a Bats who remains just as much of a social chameleon in the Batsuit as he is when he's playing the billionaire playboy. A guy who doesn't really change radically from story to story, as it might appear, but instead one who quite deliberately becomes the Batman that's needed in the situation. IE one who acts the surly, hard to satisfy git in the JLA because there are other people, most notably Superman who will be the all round, good guy who makes people feel good about themselves, so Bats himself is more use as an irascible hard man, who hectors the others into being better heroes, but one who can become almost Superman like in his ability to instil confidence and faith in his allies when that's what's called for.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

14:14 / 27.08.07

It'd also make an interesting parallel to how the Joker's been presented, in this run, as free-flowing and mercurial. Batman does work best, in my mind, when his villains are specific mirrors for different aspects of his personality (which is one of the reasons that Barry Allen's Rogues were so good in the day and Superman's gallery never really developed memorably much past Sexy Lexy).

I mean, if nothing else, you'd have to wonder why he'd only reserve the "social chameleon" skills for Bruce and never use them himself. It seems...rather limiting.

14:53 / 27.08.07

I find that reading of any character's identity a risky one, in the sense that if you don't make any choice and he's too much anything at all, he can end up being pretty much nothing at all -- he'd just be whatever the scene (or what the writer/reader) wants him to be.

And damn, JH's art is unbelievable. I'll finish up with the next issue and still hunt down the tp to see how this'll be without the ads (A*S tp's pages and panels distributions' flow is amazingly improved for it).

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

14:58 / 27.08.07

he can end up being pretty much nothing at all -- he'd just be whatever the scene (or what the writer/reader) wants him to be.

Ironically, this is a fairly close approximation of how Batman's been treated from the start. I think it has something to do with a serial character around long enough to see creators come and go with a fairly regular pace. As came up in that old Batmanology thread (whatever it was called), everybody has their own Batman.

15:11 / 27.08.07

Yeah I guess that at this far off in the game, the best a writer could try to do is make a rorscharc test out of these types of characters (Superman, Wolverine etc). Even the detective aspects, from what I hear, aren't always present as defining (just see Arkham Asylum for that).

But I guess some things are a bit more... solid, no? The vague kick-ass serious no-nonsense stance; the Chuck Norris jokes quality of kick ass ("Batman can breathe in space, he could even menstruate if he wanted and applied himself hard enough"); the darkness and animalistic bat-ness of it (either if it's taken into wild dyonisiac land or into somber Hades-like territory)...

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:58 / 27.08.07

Even the detective aspects, from what I hear, aren't always present as defining

This is one of the recurring criticisms of Bat-portrayals; I tend to think it's difficult to write him as competent a detective as he is because *you* have to make yourself into a detective of equal footing.

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