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Grant Morrison's Batman

 
  

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LDones
02:44 / 24.04.08
I've been out of the batloop for a bit, but I saw that #675 dropped today and I grabbed it.

It's a regrettable bit of artist fill-in, especially after Tony Daniel was really hitting a stride with #674.

On that: I really liked 674, it was good comics. Daniel really did shine there - his Batman figures are always right, even when they're a little awkward or silly (that last reaction panel in #673 is a good example - Batman's chapped-lip stupefication). They just always work, even while other characters in the frame languish in awkward perspective or proportions, even when referencing wildly different incarnations of Batman - from Aparo-style headshots to Miller-referencing fat-chested angry Batmen. That image of BruceBats gloriously Hurt-Stomping 3rd-Man-Bats in is just great. I can hear him yelling when I look at that, like a an angry young upper-class father of two.

I love 3rd Man Bats as a character. Cursed with being nearly as good as Batman and with all that Misery & Tragedy Of The Bat eating at him. I love the way his mood flings from cackling monologue ("Bring me Batman's eyes!") to caged animal ("NOBODY MOVE OR HE'S DEAD!") to nervous excitement ("Where is he? How long does this usually take?") over to something like sober self-loathing, and sympathy for Bruce Wayne. ("Ask yourself why.") I love that panel of him turning with sadness and pity at what he knows is a doomed Batman.

Loved the hilarious delivery of the idea that Bruce Wayne may be the only one manly or wily enough to handle the weight of Batman - with the villain of the issue, faced at last with the overwhelming competence and shiteating grin of the real Batman, literally flinging the bat symbol from his chest. Panicked and in fear of its corrosive properties, screaming "GET IT OFF!"

I wasn't sure if the bit at the end about the King of Crime "telling me his name" was a reference to Black Glove or not, but it seems pretty apparent after #675 that it is.

Anyway, 675.



Good Fat-Insignia'd Miller-style Batman by Daniel.

Morrison Artist-Fill-In-Syndrome(MAFIS, I guess) strikes hard. Ryan Benjamin's done decent Batman, but decent Batman this is not.

Looks really rushed. Any sense of time or place or nuance is lost in the art so I felt like it was sort of just a wet paper bag of plot developments. Whoever the King of Crime/Black Glove is, he knows Batman's Most Intimate Secrets, including his association with the blind 10-eyed Tribes guys. Talia, Damien, & Merlyn are teaming up to solve the mystery of who's hassling Batman. And Jezebel Jet figures out that Bruce Wayne is Batman - making her not long for this title, one way or another.

She doesn't so much figure it out as Bruce Wayne outs himself by going apeshit on their 9-eyed assailant with her in the room.

It's not all bad. There are good moments. Interesting character stuff. Bruce Wayne hating that he feels like he's never grown up (and by inferred extension, the sillier and more child-like elements of Batman) explains a lot. Outing himself by going into Batman mode with Jezebel Jet in the room is interesting as part of a chain of self-destructive behaviors that isn't atypical of depressed and powerful or affluent alpha-males. Wanting to give up control.

I do kind of like that page of Angry Bruce With Exposed Chest and those dirty-inked panels of his angry self-loathing. I wish the good, cheesy, climactic moment of the issue wasn't lost by the art - Robin and Nightwing flinging open the door and letting the light of the Bat-signal burst into the room, where it slams onto Bruce Wayne just as his identity is discovered.


R.I.P. starts in 3 weeks.



Batman #676

Beginning the epic story that will change the legend of the Dark Knight forever! Everything in Grant Morrison's groundbreaking run on Batman has been leading to this story, and nothing will ever be the same again.

Who will live? Who will die? Who will be Batman? The answers are sure to shock you in "Batman R.I.P.," featuring artwork by Tony Daniel and Sandu Florea and covers by Alex Ross.


On Sale May 14, 2008


Since the NY Comicon, DC's not been shy about saying "Batman is going to die". I do wonder how literally to take that. I'll be impressed if they let Morrison get away with it, though I'm still expecting a less literal, more transformative death.

When I read #674 I wondered if Dr. Hurt was a red herring, a fake-out or distraction, or if Black Glove was. Then again, the Club of Villains was apparently fake and they're all actually showing up soon, so...

Either way, fun book. I'm glad George is on it for awhile yet.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
02:46 / 24.04.08
#675 is out.

"Are you into S&M?" and "Walk Awaaayy!"

SPOILERS
















a tense issue, with the Robins buddying up, Bruce braking down, and a building tension that would have been so much better portrayed by someone else rather this gentleman Ryan B3nj4m1n [filling in for D4n13ls; I suppose DC is enforcing the rumoured "no delays" policy].

man, there are some ugly shots of Thalia and of Bruce... those guys can deliver pages fast, and i hate having this fanboy attack. but this entire story arc has been missing a really good artist that develops the script well.
 
 
LDones
02:49 / 24.04.08
Oh, and the next collection of this stuff comes out in September, with an unflinchingly sexy cover.

BATMAN: THE BLACK GLOVE
Written by Grant Morrison; Art by J.H. Williams III, Tony Daniel and Jonathan Glapion; Cover by Williams


Writer Grant Morrison (ALL STAR SUPERMAN, FINAL CRISIS) brings Batman and a group of global heroes to a mysterious island to face a killer in this volume collecting BATMAN #667-669 and 672-675. Then, Batman relives a defining adventure in the life of young Bruce Wayne: the hunt for his parents' killer.

176pg. | Hardcover | $24.99 US

On Sale September 3, 2008
 
 
SiliconDream
06:48 / 24.04.08
And Jezebel Jet figures out that Bruce Wayne is Batman - making her not long for this title, one way or another.

Note that Jezebel goes from conspicuously handcuffed--close-up panel on her arms, even--to mysteriously un-handcuffed on the last page. Assuming it's not an art error, it adds to a bit of a creepy vibe on her part--her popping up just as Bruce invokes the Black Glove, and the confusion/fear on Bruce's face as she lays her hands on his head.

And hey, her name is Jet.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
12:34 / 24.04.08
based in what Morrison said in some NYCC interviews about the "big baddie" and dialogue in this issue, some people are assuming the guy in question could be...

Alfred.

what do you guys think?
 
 
Triplets
12:39 / 24.04.08
Oh my God. The cat from the future! IT ALL MAKES THE SENSE
 
 
This Sunday
12:55 / 24.04.08
Alfred is The Outsider! Again!

Personally, I'd rather see the villains be Bruce's parents. They've been lionized a bit too much for a little too long.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:13 / 24.04.08
>> a building tension that would have been so much better portrayed by someone else rather this gentleman Ryan B3nj4m1n [filling in for D4n13ls; I suppose DC is enforcing the rumoured "no delays" policy].

Yeah, I saw the preview pages (haven't been able to get to the comics shop yet) and I thought 'what the hell?!? A lousy fill-in artist on #675; first part of a major new story arc?!?'
 
 
FinderWolf
20:26 / 24.04.08
They can't make Alfred the big bad. That would be too 'Secret Invasion'. How could Bruce get along in life without Alfred...? (I mean this only half-seriously, but seriously enough to be a total nerd)
 
 
The Natural Way
20:40 / 24.04.08
675 isn't the first part of RIP, Finder, but I share your pain. DC, you fucking nobs, considering this is one of yr biggest books, building up to one of its biggest story arcs, and a film to boot, you could have FOUND A GOOD ARTIST TO DRAW THE BLOODY THING.

Why do they always make this shit look so hard?
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
19:52 / 29.04.08
Batman versus Barbelith?

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=155372

In this preview for DC Universe zero, we see even more blood-red eggs from Mr. Morrison.

---

So who do you think Black Glove is?

Commissioner Gordon?
The Devil?
The Illuminati (punishing the rich boy, ehh?)?
Thomas Wayne?
Robin(s)?
Joe Chill?
Moriarty?
Hugo Strange?
Alfred?
Any other guesses?
 
 
FinderWolf
20:06 / 29.04.08
The Joe Chill angle sounds good to me, esp. since Morrison spent a whole issue on Joe Chill earlier.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:09 / 29.04.08
and yeah, even though #675 isn't Part 1 of R.I.P., isn't it listed as a Prologue to R.I.P. or something...? (haven't read it yet, getting it tomorrow)
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
22:25 / 29.04.08
a 16 panel page... i just came.

my money on the Black Glove's identity is on Thomas, James, Alfred or the 3 combined.

Joe Chill's dead, right? or scared to death to be the guy.
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
22:44 / 29.04.08
Is it because Bruce is rich that he can't be the Batman of tomorrow (assuming he gives up the role)?

"Class Warfare," as Joe Chill put it. That would certainly fit with the whole "death of western civilzation" theme.

I mean Captain America is dead, so we can't have a nasty rich boy running around...cause Mason Lang's a twat.

Anyone?

That said, I like Bruce and want the "poor" guy to be happy.

(And if it is the butler that's the baddy, then that is really a very cool nod to the Prisoner.)
 
 
Eskay Uno
23:26 / 29.04.08
Jezebel Jet. Isn't the name "Jezebel" synonymous with "wicked woman"? All those things she was saying about Bruce during dinner, maybe they apply to her as well: underneath her own wit and charm may lie something cruel. Maybe she is too obvious, but there's a visual early on that stuck with me and bred this suspicion: during their dinner scene, we see Bruce clearly, from JJ's pov, followed by a close-up of JJ, her face distorted through the frame of a glass getting filled with red wine. A clue, or really just rubbish art? And yeah, why the heck aren't DC's top artists working on this book? It's beyond ridiculous.
 
 
The Natural Way
23:31 / 29.04.08
Well, I really liked Kubert. It was really loose, pulpy and expressionistic, and the fights were good. Daniels is actually fine (tho' not awesome), but the guy who took the reigns this ish.... Awful.
 
 
The Natural Way
23:33 / 29.04.08
Jezebel idea's good. Chill idea's good.

Gordon and Alfred ideas are terrible. No emotional puchline whatsoever. Just shit. Would ruin the book. But no-one's seriously considering those guys, are they?
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
00:08 / 30.04.08
The reason one could guess that Alfred is the Black Glove is that Morrison said, "It is going to be the most surprising reveal of a Batman villain in the seven decades of the series."

If it is going to be that big a shocker, then it may be something as ridiculous as Alfred or Gordan. (It is a damn shame I don't have my back issues with or I would be looking for clues right now...not that I have ever guessed where Morrison is going).

But Morrison has set up Black Glove as something worse than the Joker, Ras Al Ghul, and any of the other bat villains.

If it was Alfred, Thomas Wayne, or Gordan that would be a hell of a sucker punch. Of those three, I'd bet on Thomas, cause everybody loves Alfred and Gordan.

Other possibilities:
Riddler (Maybe)
King TUT
 
 
Mug Chum
00:26 / 30.04.08
Well I was sort of looking foward to a youtube-squirrel's dramatic zoom eyes on Fuhture Kat Alfred.
(although on a serious and shameful note, I actually considered for a second Bruce Wayne being the big surprise, even if it would be trash -- and on a different note, but still on Morrison commenting RIP, I would really like to see the Robin-Batman laughing at the Joker like somebody pulling the rug on a troll)

I liked this issue. Robins were a really fun read, cool use for villain, nice psychotic burst and reveal... And if the art was rubbish at most spots, it did helped on rare bits. But here's waiting for Daniel's return (or somebody with that "loose" quality to it).

Long ago I'd seen one post on WFA discussing the problematic figure of Jezebel Jet concerning issues of sexualized representations of black women ("Jezebel"? Although Thalia as the caricatural Ex with "you're the daddy" maybe isn't much better -- but I was hoping there would be a plot reveal or a ironic wink). Did the subject ever skim by here?
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
00:27 / 30.04.08
I take that back.

I would lay money on it being either Thomas or Chill. I was scanning the preview images linked above:

Joker is "Dealing a deadman's hand with a twist"
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
00:38 / 30.04.08
What was the name of the club/building where Joe offs himself for those of you with back issues?
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
21:45 / 30.04.08
in DC UNIVERSE #0 there's a DC Nation page with a pic of the editors passing around a secret script.

behind them a board filled with "notes" there are clues to the immediate future of DCU books.

there's "I am Batman? - I am Bruce Wayne?" and some other that is *maybe* connected: "murder \ suicide; father \ son"...
 
 
Alex's Grandma
02:13 / 01.05.08
Has anyone suggested Catwoman yet?

Bruce has treated her dreadfully over the years, but Selina still loves him; she's almost part of the family and might have had access to the secrets of the Bat-cave. Plus she does wear black gloves. Long. Black. Leather. Gloves.

I wouldn't rule Selina out.

Bruce has been putting it about lately, after all.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
02:23 / 01.05.08
It would be to do with Bruce growing up, etc.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:56 / 01.05.08
I finally read 675 - pretty entertaining. What I liked most was Bruce's words upon Jezebel's discover - "Walk away! Bruce Wayne is a stunted man who never grew up.." etc. A harsh but true declaration of his persona. And not the typical reaction we've seen from Bruce in previous instances where a girlfriend discovered he was Bats.

(A favorite 'girlfriend/new love interest discovers Bruce is Batman' scene of mine is from the Greg Rucka Detective run, beautifully illustrated by Shawn Martinborough with that cool two-tone color pallete they were experimenting with at the time: when bodyguard/new romantic interest Sasha Bordeaux discovers/figures it out, Bruce takes her into his confidence, seeing she's a tough, skilled warrior-type, and says, gently, "What I do is holy work." Love it. It's a holy, spiritual mission for our boy Bruce. His life's work, his own Mother Teresa riff.)
 
 
MFreitas
18:24 / 01.05.08
I'm sorry, people, but some of the suspects listed here are not even supsects, worse,they're not even characters in the book. Really... King Tut? Who the hell is King Tut? Catwoman? Hugo Strange? Please...

Joe Chill? He's a thug with a limited intellect; a smart-ass businessman, at best. "Joe Chill in Hell"? What do you face when you go to hell? Exactly: the "Devil". Who's the one who causes his suicide? Who is his personal Devil? Batman himself. The Joe Chill scene serves to show Batman/Wayne's dark side, almost an evil persona. He didn't do a thing to stop Chill from killing himself. Heck, as far as I know, he wanted Chill to do it.

The most likely candidate to be the Black Glove is Bruce Wayne himself. Morrison's run is full of references to Batman/Wayne's fractured psyche and the way the experiences he went through in the isolation chamber and in Nanda Parbat could not have left him uncahanged. There are even references to Wayne having black-outs! Who could be smarter or at least as smart as Batman himself? Who could always be a step ahead of him? None other than himself. Or...

Alfred.

In the solicitation for one of the upcoming chapters of Batman: RIP, there's a teaser for the return of a character we never thought we'd see again. Could that character be the Outsider, Alfred's evil persona from the 70s? Don't forget Morrison considers everything to be part of the continuity, so that must include the alleged death of Alfred in the 60s and his return as a super-villain many months later. Furthermore, Morrison's run is full of references to Alfred being in charge of Wayne's life, from the jet-set appearances Alfred sets up, to the ominous reference Wayne does in #673 ("Alfred insists I keep a record of everything")... Remember: the Butler always does it! And evil Alfred "black gloves" would be a great opposite to his usual "white gloves". Plus: at the end of #674, after Batman asks himself "If the king of crime exists, is he telling me his name?", the very next word that follows immediately this is "Alfred?". Clues, my friends.

Anyway, my main suspect is still Wayne. As for Jezebel, yes, she could be a likely candidate too, but I don't know... not many clues if any. Her name? Jezebel is also the bride of the demon Baal, the Dragon. If Batman is "The Demon", the "Old Dragon", that would make Jezebel his fiancé.

To sum it up: Morrison said the revelation would be a shock. So it must be Wayne or AlFred. Only Gordon or Thomas Wayne could be even bigger shockers. Gordon: absolutely no clue whatsoever. Thomas Wayne? Waaay too farfetched and I doubt even Grant could pull it off well.
 
 
The Natural Way
20:28 / 01.05.08
I knew nothing of evil alfred. Now I like the idea.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
21:07 / 01.05.08
What would Alfred's motivation be though? That he's been belittled by Bruce over the decades, while secretly in love with him? That Bruce mocked his ambitions to play the Dane?

Well possibly, but he could always have got another job. If Alfred is the Black Glove (and I admit it's a possibility) decades of loyal service are going to have to be reimagined in terms of insane sexual jealousy - he could have killed Bruce so often, under the knife, but didn't - that ... Oh well, who knows.

I wonder how George Morrissey would feel if a team of guys had sent him into a lunatic asylum, then broke his back, and then made him give up the mantle to a *mental* youngster who understood the mission better.

Perhaps what 'Batman RIP' is going to be aboot is Morriaon's relationship with Mark Millar?
 
 
Spaniel
21:08 / 01.05.08
Freitas might have come to the idea hirself, but it's been doing the rounds for a couple of weeks or so.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
21:32 / 01.05.08
I'd bet money on the Black Glove being Alfred- that one throwaway piece of dialogue between Bruce and Jez' in the last issue sealed it for me. We've had two things hammered home: that Alfred has a flair for the dramatic (his acting past) and his love of bad detective novels. How do bad detective novels end? The butler did it.
 
 
_Boboss
21:37 / 01.05.08
it's not really that shocking though, if its just a rerun of the outsider plot. the hints we've been getting seem to say to me that the black glove is basically the terrible time tailor agin. someone outside time who can use his parents, chill, alfred, jet and everyone else against him.
 
 
_Boboss
22:02 / 01.05.08
sorry, that was a fucking boring post in an otherwise excellent thread. i'm going to go away again.
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
22:30 / 01.05.08
surely you've heard of KING "suck on that Ozymandias" TUT

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Tut_%28Batman%29
 
 
_Boboss
22:32 / 01.05.08
 
  

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