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Grant Morrison's Batman

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23:41 / 19.07.07

Is it the smiling? I kinda sorta really really like that the Batfolk are grinning and laughing in the Miller series.

666 is looking good, though. I've actually forgotten where we left off in the series, and will have to reread. It does seem as though Morrison might be putting a bit too much focus on doing his definitive Bat-verse, where Miller has established his Bat-verse and is just splashing around in the bloody mess, for better or worse. Batman tends to inspire a certain level of tight-ass syndrome for Morrison (his Legends... run, Arkham Asylum), which does not play to his general strengths. But, then, it's Batman and for most people Batman's a tight-ass himself. Miller tends to play him more as improvisational psychotic, but wonder if Miller isn't writing these very improvisationally (which would explain the fugue-like pacing we've thus experienced).

I have hopes that, since we're jumping to the future and, otherwise, have been dealing with weird tulpas/cops/metaphors-of-fears, that we're nearing some aliens vs Batmite vs zebra-striped costume vs ski-pole killah Wayne territory very soon.

Still, two new issues, and two alternate takes on Barbara Gordon that don't appear to suck, so that's just good all 'round. If only they could both have shirtless hot butler action and some more 'goddammed Batman's, but I suppose that's asking too much.

01:07 / 20.07.07

It reminded me of Dark Knight Returns. Something about the Yeats-like thunder warrior in skewed future with Batdemon having little psycho-demon kids as enemies (gangs & kid-bomb in DKR), Gordon replaced by lady-comissioner unfriendly towards that Batman...

Seems like either an intentional constant exploring on the subject of "kids as satanic sun-bringer of shitty future" or... I have no idea.

I was expecting pure James Bond. I have no idea where the overall series is aiming at.

02:13 / 20.07.07

It's not Bruce Wayne, if that's what you're thinking, it's his bad-seed future son.

And the Miller references thus far in BatMorrison have been pretty consciously played, I think.

03:36 / 20.07.07

No, I saw it was Damien. But I took it as still being Batman in the same sense I take DKR's and Arkham Asylum's Batmen as Batman, even if I don't think it's Batman. A pretend make-believe Batman. Sort of like the "purged" nightmarish crazy fever-cop-Batman with a gun in the beggining of the run.

(hope I made any sense there)

11:23 / 20.07.07

I was expecting pure James Bond

I think we're going to get Ski-pole Batman as soon as he's chucked his demons. I reckon he'll purge most of his core angst in #666, or at least confront it. The Batmen of Many Nations will be where we see Bruce, hopefully, moving up, inspiring a whole international Batman fanclub and helping them (as Big Confident Batdaddy) solve a creepy murder mystery.

Want him to fight Joker Gordon soon.

Are there any interviews out there where George talks about his plans for Batman?

18:09 / 23.07.07

this week: new issue. that's right, it's time for #666.

The Natural Way

11:04 / 24.07.07

Thanks for letting us know, Finder.

Eh?

But, yes, I'm excited too.

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

12:26 / 24.07.07

Looks like Keith Champagne, who wrote the best issues so far of the Green Lantern Corp book will be doing a Damien story in October's Robin Annual . Also promises to be linked to the ongoing Batman book. Normally I'd probably run a mile from something by another writer that's supposed to tie-in with Morrison's stuff, but Champagne was good on GLC so I'll probably pick this up.

13:28 / 24.07.07

There are a few older Newsarama interviews with Morrison about his Batman plans, but his public plans for the material he's already written changed pretty well from then to publication, and I'm guessing the delays have only changed things further.

Originally he said his Batman would be healthier and angst-free, but either his perspective changed pretty definitively, or DC Editorial nixed the idea. With Dan Didio's creepy sausage-fingered manhandling of DC writing, I'd lean towards the latter.

Lemme find those interviews...

Here we go. Not the first mention of it, but an interview where he mentions the healthier, hairy-chested love god approach, albeit much less emphasis on happybats. Newsarama, August of last year.

5 months later, an interview from January of this year with the following quote:

“It’s pretty hardcore,” he offers. “It’s going to be the Dark Knight in places we’ve never seen him before: in the very depths of despair.”

The heart of that despair is Damian, Batman’s son with Talia (of Ra’s al Ghul fame), who survived Morrison’s first arc leaving Batman with much to ponder. Damian will end up playing a prominent part in the new year.

Maybe he decided to get all his positivity out in ASS, or wanted to try working out some some ideas on displaced parenthood.

MAYBE IT'S ANTI-LIFE.

Cowboy Scientist

17:16 / 25.07.07

First of all; #666 was a great issue, lots of fun.

But! I got to admit, I was a bit dissapointed in some aspects. "Future stories" are generally opportunities for Morrison to go crazy with the franchise in question (Think "JLA: One Million" or "Here Comes Tomorrow" in New X-Men) because of the lack of a Status Quo. I dunno, I just feel he could have been more playful with the concepts of the Batman mythos. I kinda wish he would have explored those new villians a little further than just naming them; Pyg, Phosophorus Rex, Candyman, and Max Roboto sound all like interesting characters.

Maybe I'm asking too much of an 20-page comic, but if he can put so much stuff in just one issue of A*S, why not here?

And, it's just me or that future didn't look all that futuristic? I was expecting a Gotham close to Invisibles V3 #1, and it's pretty much the present.

Also, you might notice this, #666 is gritty as all hell. There's blood everywhere. What happened with the Lovegod-Neal-Adams-Denny-O'Neil-kind-of-Batman story?

So, who do you think is the Antichrist Batman? Tim Drake? I mean, all that "Batman was my father too!" stuff... Or maybe that's too obvious?

That's another thing that bothered me, he's the !@#~€$ antichrist; a few punches, and he's stopped?

Well, enough with the complainy. There's a lot of good stuff in there: Alfred the Cat, that "Secret Origin" secuence cleverly placed between the first page splash and the actual begining of the story, Batman vs the Dolltron, the purposely over-the-top melodramatic dialogue, the fact that Damien "specialized in cheating", the idea that NuBatman can't die till all of Gotham's crime is stopped forever, & the cool new Batmobile.

20:12 / 25.07.07

So, I see Tony Daniel is apparently the new artist on Batman after JHW3's wee run. Tony. Daniel.

It is like being dared not to buy a comic I otherwise would want to. He is so worst.

The Natural Way

21:18 / 25.07.07

Why is Tony Daniel?

Fucking hell, does Grant have no say re who he works with? Jesusfuck!

02:02 / 26.07.07

A lot of this issue felt pretty resonant with past Morrison work, from the ragdoll girl, to the Lennon bit, to Damian following in his dad's footsteps by using a remote to cheat his way to victory, WWIII style.

The antichrist went down from getting his guts torn out, Heat Vision - he was obviously set up for a fall by whoever they're referring to as the Devil and the Dragon - though future solicits for what will probably be Morrison's final storyline on the title make it sound like Rha's Al Ghul is at the bottom of all this.

I dunno if this is meant as a literal Batfuture or just serious symbolic worries about being a shitty Batparent. I like Damian in his ivory wanetower with his Batfamiliar.

I like the Trophy Room, with the Joker's costume and what I think must be a recreation of Bruce, Dick, and Damian as a crimefighting team, Bruce in the big-symbol, huge-pouch outfit from his 'death' scene in the origin pages.

Damien's pretty obviously intended as the real 3rd Ghost/Antichrist, and his lack of getting particularly upset at being burned and shot multiple times likely has something to do with a Melmoth-style Lazarus infusion from the ol' Dragon/Devil/Liam Neeson.

It may be reaching to think that "STAND AWAY FROM THOSE PEOPLE YOU GODDAMN MANIAC!" is a dig at Frank Miller, but I'll take them where they come.

The Natural Way

12:56 / 26.07.07

Well, perhaps Damian's the real 3rd ghost, but then what does that make this issue's Banti-christ?

Heat Vision, I know the thread's quite long, but if hop back a few pages you'll find the most likely answer to the "who lies behind the mask?" question.

I suppose, though, if Damian's the 3rd ghost, then it could be Tim.

15:01 / 26.07.07

Or maybe the villain from the next arc, killing off the Batmen of Many Nations to pare down the potential Bat-replacements to just the few.

Wine and pain meds can make me very certain of occasional olympic leaps of logic, particularly when I see the inviting pink of this forum.

I liked this issue a lot, and I'll say again how much I like Kubert's very weird art in the two arcs he's gotten in. That image of AntiBats with the wine glass in the air sending Jackanapes and the whole lot out for some Wayne eyes is great. The great operatic cheat explosiont, those huge round shocked doll eyes on him when he gets a thrashing.

The thought of going from this kind of deranged arthouse 90's comic style to whatever visual grandeur JH Williams is lending the Club of Heroes arc to Tony Daniel in the space of a few months makes me feel a little odd.

I feel like the restless anxiety in or about this comic is building to fever pitch, an NXM-level extended stroking of bad things with no relief for the characters in sight. Maybe it's the crap schedule. Either way the lovegod looks like a no-show.

Is Tony Daniel the 'regular' artist after this, or just doing some fill-ins? Anybody know?

15:15 / 26.07.07

I believe he's on for the long haul. There's an article at Newsarama.

The Natural Way

17:08 / 26.07.07

Looking at his other stuff, it doesn't really seem that bad.

17:49 / 26.07.07

So my guess is that Pyg is short for Pygmalion. What with transforming little girls into death dolls.

Not sure where the others come from but it would sure be neat to find out.

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

18:16 / 26.07.07

Hmmm, I'm no big fan of Tony Daniel - what I've seen of his work has been a bit to nothingy for my tastes, but on the other hand we could do a lot worse. I mean he's obviously no Frank Quitely, but then on the other hand rather more happily he's no Igor Kordey either.

Haus of Mystery

18:21 / 26.07.07

Fucksake. Bad draughtsman with a fetish for ill-proportioned boobs & ass figures, and a sub-Image style. Poo.

I was just thinking how much I was enjoying Kubert's cartoony but dynamic artwork (after a few initial reservations) as well.

18:36 / 26.07.07

You'll always have what's done so far, Mr. Russell.

18:38 / 26.07.07

And, anyway, Grant tends to have decent success using Image style artists. Look at how he used Silvestri to good effect in his final X-arc. As all we've seen, so far, is a cherry-picked image to show off how bad Tony Daniel (can I call him Tony Daniel?) can be, we're better off waiting for some real Batimages. Dudes.

19:19 / 26.07.07

Oh he looks harmless enough. I just wish the writing would pick up a bit, to be honest. With the exception of the Joker issue, it hasn't exactly caught the imagination so far. This time round, for example, there was, what, the bald anti-hero, the cat, the occult imagery, and then so many questions thrown up in the air (which on past form probably won't be answered in the fullness of time) that it was hard to care much about any of them.

I know all I do is complain about this series, but in my defence, if it was by anyone else ... I don't suppose I'd be reading it in the first place. It's all so depressingly middle of the road, though. At least Frank Miller's trying to fuck shit up and intimidate the sheeple, whereas George still doesn't seem to know where he's headed with this, whether he can wheel out the (terrible, really) James Bond/love god idea at a later date, or whether he should follow what I think are his natural instincts here (however much he tries to deny them) and turn in a Batman who's None More Dark.

20:46 / 26.07.07

>> There's a lot of good stuff in there: Alfred the Cat,

LOVED Alfred the Cat. Hilarious. DamianBats monologuing to himself with only a purring, squawking cat to listen. Loved it.

21:35 / 26.07.07

Up to a point, aren't comics supposed to be about escapism, though?

10:49 / 27.07.07

Not for the last 3 years. Now they are about how much it really sucks to be a superhero :|

The Natural Way

11:12 / 27.07.07

I think George absolutely knows where he's heading with this, Mr The Fall. Whether or not you enjoy it, or find it interesting is another thing altogether. I'm really enjoying it, but...

Haus of Mystery

11:23 / 27.07.07

Yeah I loved this. His run thus far has been pure adrenaline rush comics, trashy, brash and pulpy as all hell.
I go to All Star Superman for my Morrison head comics, but this is something different that satisfies all my lurid superhero cravings. Jog said he would have loved this comic when he was 12, and I'm inclined to agree.

Keith, like a scientist

13:40 / 27.07.07

Although...there should be a moratorium on people quoting that particular Yeats stanza.

The Natural Way

14:41 / 27.07.07

Indeed.

So, I reckon.....

Evil Bats probably was Tim, wasn't he, and 'The Dragon' has to refer to Ra's (the "black wings" stuff, taken really literally, could mean he's sunk the Manbat serum) and, yeah, Damian's the 3rd ghost.

I love the fact that there's a good bat-mystery hanging over the series, even if it does rely really heavily on DC continuity (the events of Nan Par Bat), albiet a vey important piece of DC continuity.

14:55 / 27.07.07

Maybe I'm dumb but I have just completely lost interest in the deeply esoteric mysteries of Grant Morrison's BATMAN. The issues taken on their own have been fun, but after the first 3 or so I just find that they've wandered off into the land of self-referential twaddle for me. I wish there was a mystery of the three Batmen I could sink my teeth into since Batman is a character who's supposedly all about the mysteries. Instead I don't even understand exactly what the mystery is. Suddenly we're in the future? Why? There don't seem to be any rules, there doesn't seem to be any logic, so consequently I'm having a hard time finding any emotional connection or any tension or drama.

I'm still reading the series because parts of it are fun in a "let's see Grant's Batman notebook illustrated in a comic", but it feels very poorly plotted and I get a funny feeling that the only structure it has is one that the deep analyzers on this board are projecting onto it. Nothing wrong with that, just like there's nothing wrong with suggesting that this emperor may have no clothes. All told, I much prefer that GOTHIC storyline he did for Batman all those years ago. At least something was going on that I could follow. I think it was called a story.

16:19 / 27.07.07

It's not a deeply esoteric comic. It just, I think, relies on the reader to either be content with some amusing Bat-showmanship, or to be actively filtering the story beats through human experience.

Last issue the main character talked about 3 ghosts he saw when he was younger, that he thought were hallucinations, fears about horrible things he might become. This issue is about the main character's son in a horrible future, in a horrible world, being a pretty horrible person. Is parental anxiety that abstract a thing? Worries about being inadequate or absent in the face of unexpected responsibilities?

The mystery isn't who these ghosts literally are, but who's behind them, who's trying to replace Batman. Lots of Morrison stories have contended with an adult fear of replacement.

It isn't heavily structured, it isn't even overwhelmingly coherent, but the ideas do tie together so far, and the story does seem to pretty clearly be going somewhere.

I'm not sure what's so difficult about a pulpy action comic fueled by anxieties about patriarchal inadequacy.

It's got ninja manbats and exploding antichrists in it anyway.

It's such a regular criticism of Grant Morrison comics that rules aren't laid out enough or adhered to satisfactorily, and that's something I don't understand. I can easily understand criticisms of incoherence or structural haphazardness, but a lack of rules seems a pretty bizarre beef to lay on fiction, especially superhero fiction.

18:43 / 27.07.07

Well, when you put it that way it all makes sense. Maybe this'll read better as a trade, and maybe the wait between issues is hurting it, but the themes of parental failure and displacement really haven't stood out for me at all - maybe because they're being presented with all the heft of, and given equal importance to, the new, slinky future Batmobile, the one-liners, the Satan Signal and all the other really clever bits of icing on the cake. In fact, that's kind of how I feel about this title: it's all icing and no cake. Once the ninja Man-Bats absented themselves I felt a lot of the "Gee Whiz, it's a romp!" fun go out of this title as well.

It's just not working for me, but like I said: maybe it'll read better as a trade with all the issues right next to one another.

06:35 / 28.07.07

The last few issues are working pretty well as self-contained stories, but I do think there's a big mystery being lain out in the background. Like the Harley thing in the Joker issue, but broader. The problem for me, is that I don't particularly care about the mystery, except on an analytical level, and that's not where I want to be. It didn't matter if you figured out, in the Joker issue, what the plan for the evening was, because you - or, I at least - are in it for the ride, not the arrival. On that broader platform, I'm not feeling the rush of the ride. Part of that's the readjusting for the total story, surely, the extending of Bat Jr's story and all. I wonder whether there were issues between that were cut or repositioned to get this one precisely on issue 666?

It's gone from being sorta late nineties Morrison to being very very Bible John, hasn't it?

22:38 / 03.08.07

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