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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Big Brother: Revenge of the Sixth.

  
  

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Tryphena Absent
20:33 / 01.06.05
To elaborate on why I may seem aggressive- there are many reasons to dislike Mary, the details of the way she describes herself, her arguments with other people in the house and general interaction, her terrible dancing or the way she moves her hands but disliking her because you think she's not a white witch when she has maintained to everyone that she is... that's not a good reason.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
20:35 / 01.06.05
I wonder about Makosi. Mad gaming skillz plus posh accent plus obvious, if perhaps slightly twisted intelligence seems like a combination that may not exactly endear her to the voting public.

And Mary really overplayed her hand in that spat with Saskia - conflict's one thing, but that was unwise, to be quite so up front about her total contempt for the balloon-chested one, when she could just as easily have calmed the whole thing down. Nor was it probably that good an idea for Mary to stumble out of bed like Ophelia post-drowning when the nominations were announced.

Poor Mary. She could'a been a contender...
 
 
Mourne Kransky
20:36 / 01.06.05
And she got a subsidiary, pink, broom for her birthday. How can you accuse her of being a fake wiccan when she has two brooms? That's dedicated sweeping cleanliness. Neither is a Nimbus 2000 though, I see.

I'd vote Craig oot. On the entirely reasonable grounds that I don't like his haircut.
 
 
Shrug
20:39 / 01.06.05
Tabloid Info reg Starey Mary:
Seemingly she has previously been part of a coven and is very highly respected as both a healer and a psychic in Ireland. There is a blurry picture of her tooling around in a stone circle ritual in Wicklow.
Her surviving parent (her mother having died six months previously to BB) lives in Beaumont which is a step up from the grim Phibsboro of her upbringing.

I'm also at odds as to which should go. Which would be the mercy kill though? (as moonpig is no longer an option)
 
 
Tryphena Absent
20:41 / 01.06.05
Mooonnnnnpppppiiiiiiiiigggggggggggggggggggg! I'm determined that she win now.
 
 
Warewullf
20:42 / 01.06.05
I'd vote Craig oot. On the entirely reasonable grounds that I don't like his haircut.

Entirely understandable.
What is it with hairdressers having shit haircuts, eh?
 
 
Ganesh
20:46 / 01.06.05
... but disliking her because you think she's not a white witch when she has maintained to everyone that she is... that's not a good reason.

Let me elaborate.

The fact that she's not a white witch is a small but vital part of my greater dislike of Mary. Admittedly, I don't know a great many white witches, but I do know a great many histrionic attention-seekers of the "I'm maaad/koooky, me" variety, and she presses those buttons in me. The fact that she herself has been so critical of perceived inauthenticity and playing to the gallery compounds her scratchiness for me, when she's so clearly inauthentic (insert "IMHO" here, if you like) and insistent on an idiot chorus for her bitchspats. Her tendency to be cryptic for the sake of being cryptic and her passive-aggressive threats to leave the house every time she feels herself to be underappreciated go further in making me want to crawl through the telly and stab her between her Smeagoleyes.

I suppose her looook-at-me Mystic Meg crap wouldn't irk quite so much if she weren't making such a virtue of 'genuineness' in the other housemates.
 
 
w1rebaby
21:08 / 01.06.05
Well, histrionic attention-seekers... I mean, they're all after attention aren't they? If not, what the fuck are they doing on Big Brother? At least Mary is ever-so-slightly more original in her strategy, as opposed to "I've got big tits" or "I'm a bit of a cheeky chappie".

Craig's haircut irritates me as well, it's very rubbish Hoxton. His whole "I'm a ruthless bitch, I can destroy anyone" thing in the introduction irritated me as well. Is it just me or are none of them one per cent as manipulative and socially ninjalike as they think they are? Derek, I imagine, is far by the most capable on that basis, because that's what he's been doing for a living as a lobbyist and politico. The rest of them would be wiped out in the average office barney about who had to refill the water cooler.
 
 
Shrug
21:15 / 01.06.05
I was just about to type that that is no reason to think that she can't ostensibly be the concious kook and also be a practicing Wiccan but the phrase "multiple alien abductee" keeps popping into my head.
 
 
Ganesh
21:16 / 01.06.05
Well, histrionic attention-seekers... I mean, they're all after attention aren't they?

They're not all playing the Weird card, and they're not all making a virtue of their supposed shyness/depth/lack of histrionics.

At least Mary is ever-so-slightly more original in her strategy, as opposed to "I've got big tits" or "I'm a bit of a cheeky chappie".

Subculturally mainstream as opposed to culturally mainstream, I'll grant you. She does seem rather preoccupied with the "big tits" of other housemates, and this again taps into what seems to be a central pillar of her own self-esteem, the idea that she's a 'genuine' person and people with boob jobs are necessarily less so.

His whole "I'm a ruthless bitch, I can destroy anyone" thing in the introduction irritated me as well. Is it just me or are none of them one per cent as manipulative and socially ninjalike as they think they are?

It is seeming that, even more so than in previous years, housemates are failing to live up to the inflated claims of their video interviews.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
21:18 / 01.06.05
Craig should be evicted and Mary should be abducted.

She is so brave to show no noticeable concern that an eightth abduction might happen at any minute.
 
 
Olulabelle
21:19 / 01.06.05
The whole dog thing left me slightly perplexed, but to be fair to Mary Saskia is quite possibly the most annoying sort of female there is. I think she's vacuous and irritating and I can't bear girls who strut around in bikini's all the while telling everyone how much they hate their body.

Maybe Mary does actually really dislike her, and when she was confronted by that 'Trisha stylee' pissed nightclub godawful harranguing, she bit back. I'm not sure how long I could keep quiet if I were her. Equally the going to bed scenario may well have been weary guttedness at how ordinary some of her housemates are. And now she's been nominated, she really is going to think there is no place for anyone who believes what she allegedly does, because she does not yet know why and how she was nominated.

So I am giving Mary the benefit of the doubt, for now. I want her to be a practicing Wiccan, however flaky, and for her to stay in for a while in order for everyone to see this. I want her to talk about it and engage them in it. The housemates are showing signs of being interested and she has a receptive in-house audience if she wants one.

And I don't think Mary will go. She's too interesting; people are wise to BB now and they tend not to ditch the best viewing potential early on. And you see, I think Craig is exceedingly boring - one of the dullest in the house but interestingly, I missed his audition tape. I wonder how many other people did too?

As for Sam? Well. ...Nope. I can't commit how I feel about her to screen because every time I try to, my fingers type bitchy, hateful things of the silly, dull little tart variety.
 
 
Ganesh
21:23 / 01.06.05
...the phrase "multiple alien abductee" keeps popping into my head.

I think that's the clincher for me. It suggests that she's willing to cobble together elements of several New Age belief systems/mindsets, the common factor being her own 'specialness'. That and her own thoughts on why she might be nominated:

"I’m too spooky and witchy, I like to talk too deeply and have too many conspiracy theories and I’m too analytical."

The "too many conspiracy theories" line tells me she's more interested in collecting conspiracy theories as exotic accoutrements than actually believing in those theories; this makes me suspect the same of other aspects of her apparent belief system. The rest of it's like the crap stuff you come out with in job interviews in response to the 'weaknesses' question.
 
 
Ganesh
21:24 / 01.06.05
She is so brave to show no noticeable concern that an eightth abduction might happen at any minute.

% I wonder if it'll happen live on national television? %
 
 
Ganesh
21:38 / 01.06.05
Saskia is quite possibly the most annoying sort of female there is. I think she's vacuous and irritating and I can't bear girls who strut around in bikini's all the while telling everyone how much they hate their body.

Has Saskia done that? I know Sam lives in her pink gingham number...

Maybe Mary does actually really dislike her, and when she was confronted by that 'Trisha stylee' pissed nightclub godawful harranguing, she bit back. I'm not sure how long I could keep quiet if I were her.

I don't think that's entirely fair. Saskia attempted to do the adult thing and contrive a one-to-one talk, but Mary (who's been verrry critical of those who play to the gallery) insisted on other housemates joining them. This was gonna escalate things from the outset.

Saskia quite reasonably pointed out that Mary (who's been verrry critical of two-facedness) burbled on about her "good energy" in the first couple of days, but has subsequently been bitching about her behind her back. Additionally, Mary (who's been verrry criticial of those shallow enough to emphasise physical appearance) has been bitching about Saskia's tits.

Mary responded by claiming she wasn't the only one who thought Saskia's tits were fake - which is less a reasonable justification than a playground 'I've got loads of friends who agree with me' nyerrrism. I reckon she only came out with the direct 'I don't like you, I don't see anything of interest in you' stuff because she found herself cornered, and had no option but to attack as defence.

Also worth pointing out that she's eight years older than Saskia, and miiight be expected to have been a little more emotionally mature about the whole thing.

Equally the going to bed scenario may well have been weary guttedness at how ordinary some of her housemates are. And now she's been nominated, she really is going to think there is no place for anyone who believes what she allegedly does, because she does not yet know why and how she was nominated.

Oh, I'm sure she'll use the 'is it 'cause I'm Wiccan' gambit. I expect we'll see more passive-aggressive yes-means-no behaviour in the coming week: threats to leave, etc., etc., etc.

And you see, I think Craig is exceedingly boring - one of the dullest in the house but interestingly, I missed his audition tape. I wonder how many other people did too?

Yeah. I've found myself wondering when he's gonna start. Perhaps we'll see some acid queenery this week?
 
 
Olulabelle
21:39 / 01.06.05
But don't you think she might be 'adapting the truth' a little in order to get in? Clever (don't hit me) strategy?

Maybe these days the contestants feel so sure that the only way to get picked is by being outrageous, they make stuff up. But the lies are based around a basic sense of self. Maybe it's how they 'wish' they were - Mary wants to be a really freaky witchy girl, but might just be prone to a little Beltane dancing. Maybe Sam (*spits on the floor*) would like to be a free sexual being, but actually feels a bit unsure of herself in that department (your comment about lack of orgasm upthread). Saying 'I don't much like sex and I think I'm quite boring' isn't going to get a person in, and neither is 'I'm a mild-mannered gentle Tarot gazing soul'. Whereas alien abduction, sex addiction and whatever Craig said might.

If I wanted to get in I might big my part up a little/lot, just to be sure of being picked.

Then when your 'safe' in the house a while you can go back to being yourself. Or go about the process of creating the new, better self if that's your goal.
 
 
Ganesh
21:45 / 01.06.05
ut don't you think she might be 'adapting the truth' a little in order to get in? Clever (don't hit me) strategy?

I'm sure she is. If, however, one then makes a point of being snotty about other people doing the same thing, one leaves oneself open to charges of hypocrisy and never having been to Selfawaria.

Maybe these days the contestants feel so sure that the only way to get picked is by being outrageous, they make stuff up. But the lies are based around a basic sense of self. Maybe it's how they 'wish' they were - Mary wants to be a really freaky witchy girl, but might just be prone to a little Beltane dancing. Maybe Sam (*spits on the floor*) would like to be a free sexual being, but actually feels a bit unsure of herself in that department (your comment about lack of orgasm upthread). Saying 'I don't much like sex and I think I'm quite boring' isn't going to get a person in, and neither is 'I'm a mild-mannered gentle Tarot gazing soul'. Whereas alien abduction, sex addiction and whatever Craig said might.

Sure - but, as I say, if the gulf between what's said and what then happens is too wide, one tends to look like a monumental fraud, particularly if one repeatedly draws attention to the issue by damning the monumental fraudulence of one's fellows.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
21:48 / 01.06.05
for the idiots savants among us to compute:

Nominations in full were:

Anthony: Derek and Makosi
Craig: Makosi and Kemal
Derek: Sam and Saskia
Kemal: Maxwell and Sam
Lesley: Sam and Makosi
Makosi: Roberto and Anthony
Mary: Saskia and Roberto
Maxwell: Makosi and Vanessa
Roberto: Science and Vanessa
Sam: Vanessa and Derek
Saskia: Mary and Craig
Science: Roberto and Maxwell
Vanessa: Sam and Roberto
 
 
Olulabelle
21:52 / 01.06.05
Saskia's body image comment was made by Mary in the diary room. Maybe it isn't true.

But I think I would have acted exactly the same way as Mary did to that confrontation. That doesn't mean she's right, just that I can see her point. It wasn't a 'talk', it was an attack, although Saskia was right about trying to be friends with Mary initially. Maybe it's because I can't relate at all to that kind of Trisha-ness, but she just feels shallow to me. And although I can see she was trying to appear put things right, I'm not sure I believe she actually meant it. She didn't really let Mary speak, she just did that talking really loudly over her thing, and forced Mary into attack mode.

In other news I'm seriously bored with the 'whose tits are a/real and b/bigger thing, which is being perpetuated by everybody in the house. I think they should just have a tit-off. Weigh them or something. Closure in exceedingly comedic form.
 
 
Ganesh
22:03 / 01.06.05
Saskia's body image comment was made by Mary in the diary room. Maybe it isn't true.

Gawd, you'll be telling me next the seven anal probes didn't happen...

It wasn't a 'talk', it was an attack

It would've stood more chance of being a talk if Mary hadn't demanded an audience. As far as I could see, it was Saskia saying, 'you said one thing to me and another to other people and I look a twat; don't fucking do that again' - and Mary saying, 'other people think you're fake too, I don't like you, you're boring and childish'. So yes, attack, but I think it's Mary who did the attacking.

Maybe it's because I can't relate at all to that kind of Trisha-ness, but she just feels shallow to me.

And I guess I'm more appreciative of honest shallowness ("I want to be a footballer's wife") than smugly bollocky 'depth'.

And although I can see she was trying to appear put things right, I'm not sure I believe she actually meant it. She didn't really let Mary speak, she just did that talking really loudly over her thing, and forced Mary into attack mode.

Whether she meant it or not (and I think she'd have been happy with the most token of apologies), Saskia tried to address the issue on a one-to-one basis, but was sabotaged by Mary. As for not letting Mary speak, Mary managed to do a fair amount of weaselling (of the 'other people agree with me' sort) before moving into attack mode - and, frankly, she overattacked.
 
 
Ganesh
22:14 / 01.06.05
Craig, unsurprisingly, taking nomination badly. Throwing the word "evil" around a lot, as in, "I know it is a game but you do not have to diminish your soul to win it. People are making themselves looking horrendous and evil for £70,000".

Religious upbringing, do we think?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
22:30 / 01.06.05
I can't bear girls who strut around in bikini's all the while telling everyone how much they hate their body.

For me the problem is not that she's strutting, it's the fact that the comment is a phrase. She hasn't thought about whether she hates her body or not, she hasn't thought about what saying she hates her body means, which is precisely nothing. It's just something girls say because they don't want to appear like egomaniacs. It's an attention seeking phrase and that's why I don't like Saskia because there isn't a real reason for the words. I just want her to think.

Mary also seems not to think but let's assume for a second that her parents really are an ex-priest and ex-nun who left the church to be together. That kookiness becomes real as an act of rebellion. My problem with her, if that's true is that she seems too old to still be adopting that level of rebellion without true exploration. She's a cliche as much as Saskia is but it's a cliche I prefer in spite of her age because Saskia's comment is the type that you should necessarily consider at the age of 17 whereas Mary's has been effected by her familial past with no necessary outlet with which to tackle it in popular culture.

But Mary herself has brought me round to voting her out (though still upset that a weird girl always goes first) by saying Science is one of the most intelligent people in the house.
 
 
Dxncxn
22:32 / 01.06.05
A particular highlight of Craig's (still continuing) rant was the comment a few minutes ago that there's nothing big or clever about being mean to people, because there's already enough of that in the world.*

It's not going to happen, but if they were to play his audition tape right now over the house's PA system it'd quite make my month.


* I'm paraphrasing, but not by much.
 
 
Olulabelle
22:32 / 01.06.05
Ganesh, I'm interested to know why you are so sure that Mary is lying about Saskia in her nomination? It's a slightly unwise move, given that their every move is recorded. Lying to each other is one thing, lying to Big Brother is entirely another.
 
 
Ganesh
22:37 / 01.06.05
I'm not sure at all: it's a flippant comment based (if pushed to explain/unpack it) on what I see as Mary's rather skewed perceptions of who says/does what around her.

Amusing snippet, a couple of minutes ago:

Mary: I think you're fake.

Ant: How am i being fake, like?

Mary: I didn't say you were fake.

I don't think she's necessarily lying; I just don't trust Mary's view of reality.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
22:41 / 01.06.05
Quite amused by Mary's constant repetition of the phrase 'And I have no problem with that, but...' when it seems if she has those with so many things really.
 
 
Ganesh
22:45 / 01.06.05
For me the problem is not that she's strutting, it's the fact that the comment is a phrase. She hasn't thought about whether she hates her body or not, she hasn't thought about what saying she hates her body means, which is precisely nothing. It's just something girls say because they don't want to appear like egomaniacs. It's an attention seeking phrase and that's why I don't like Saskia because there isn't a real reason for the words. I just want her to think.

Perhaps I'd be broadly in agreement with this if I were more up to speed with Saskia's comments regarding her body. What has she said?

Mary also seems not to think but let's assume for a second that her parents really are an ex-priest and ex-nun who left the church to be together. That kookiness becomes real as an act of rebellion. My problem with her, if that's true is that she seems too old to still be adopting that level of rebellion without true exploration.

...

Mary's has been effected by her familial past with no necessary outlet with which to tackle it in popular culture.

That's occurred to me, but there are a lot of assumptions contained in this particular interpretation, and I can't subscribe to it wholeheartedly. The Carrieesque parents could be embroidered or exaggerated in the same way as (again, IMHO) the alien abductions/psychic abilities/conspiracy theories are embroidered/exaggerated. It does strike me that if she really has been bereaved in the last six months, the Endemol psychiatrist was grossly irresponsible in allowing her into the House...
 
 
Olulabelle
22:49 / 01.06.05
I just don't trust Mary's view of reality.

LOL. That's a spectacularly funny line in the context of this thread.
 
 
Ganesh
22:54 / 01.06.05
Craig really does appear to be disintegrating. He's the bookies' favourite to go, and I think that's a shame because, personally speaking, there're still things about him that interest me. He doesn't add up. There's the obvious reality gap between Craig-on-video and Craig-in-the-House, but I'm also intrigued at someone who, at the age of 20, is apparently mature enough to own and manage his own hair salon (even allowing for exaggeration, that's quite a feat) yet seems to have so little insight into himself, sexually and otherwise. What's happened to produce someone so apparently resourceful but so needlessly, selectively antagonistic (likes destroying people's lives, has never read a book)? And what the fuck's the Egyptian obsession about?

I guess we'll neeever know.
 
 
Ganesh
22:57 / 01.06.05
LOL. That's a spectacularly funny line in the context of this thread.

Well, yes, but it was a spectacularly funny kinda question, don't you think?
 
 
Dxncxn
22:58 / 01.06.05
In any of the other first-weeks, the current Science/Roberto 'discussion' would be the most exciting thing that'd happened so far. This year, however, I'm getting impatient with it since I'm fairly confident it's not even the most interesting argument going on *right now*. (Although Science's 'Don't try to gyrate me' was excellent. Is that something the kids say these days, or something he's created (or mangled?) by himself?)

Totally agree with Ganesh about Mary, incidentally. And I suspect the fact that she wasn't able to come out noticably ahead during her (creditably civil) discussion with Anthony just now may be a source of some embarrasment to her in the future. Given the way she presumably feels about her intellect in comparison to his.
 
 
Ganesh
23:06 / 01.06.05
Mmm. Mary does seem to conflate 'I like X' with 'X is intelligent', and 'X is being shouty' with 'X is speaking the truth'.

I'm wondering whether 'truth speaker' will be this year's Mary-fragranced 'straight-talkah'. Her protestations of non-two-facedness continue to look a little frayed in the wake of Saskia's accusation.



=



Scary, Stary, Hairy - but not especially Self-Awarey.
 
 
Dxncxn
23:09 / 01.06.05
Although possibly no more so than my inability to spell 'embarrassment' has been for me.
 
 
Dxncxn
23:21 / 01.06.05
(Ok, so my comment at 2.09 was in response to me at 1.58, rather than to the comment which appears immediately above it. That may be obvious. It certainly isn't important).

I'd hope not to seem too much like I'm kicking Mary, since I think she and Saakia are both guilty of the usual BB 'I hate all two-faced hypocrites except for me and my friends' thing. But there's also, it seems to me, a certain irony in the Truth Speaker's continual suggestion that she tells people when she has a problem with them, when in fact it was Saskia who initiated the 'discussion', and Mary who seems to have been more upset by it.
 
 
Ganesh
23:30 / 01.06.05
Oh dear, Schadenfreude City. I'm afraid that, despite my inklings of its underpinnings of hideous insecurity, I'm finding Craig's distress almost as amusing as I found Marco's, last year. Marco pulled better faces, though.
 
  

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