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The New Doctor Who

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09:48 / 31.05.05

Nope Rose and Adam met in 'Dalek'.

10:04 / 31.05.05

Here's a really nice theory from the Bad Wolf Hunting pagina:

How about this, which I saw recently as an explanation of the ‘Bad Wolf’ situation.

During The Doctor’s last regneration, The Master managed to hijack the regeneration and has also entered The Doctor’s body, and that the two are no co-habiting (so to speak) but The Doctor is unaware of The Master’s presence. This would possibly explain The Doctor’s erratic emotional, sometimes agressive behaviour.

When The Doctor realises what is happening (in ‘The Parting of the Ways’) he persuades Rose to kill him. She does, and the Master and The Doctor separate. Rose drags the body of The Doctor into the TARDIS, where he regenerates into the new Doctor (ie. David Tennant).

This would certainly explain the finale’s title, amongst other things.

10:55 / 31.05.05

Fly> No, not unless we're going to get another one of those 'Mickey in Father's Day' semi-twists - Dalek's set in the future (2012, I think). And anyway, a plot like that would be unbearably convoluted.

This Master stuff seems like a right load of old tripe to me. They've shown little interest in letting Doctor Who history bog the series down, they'd have to be complete idiots to do that at the very end of it. "Hey, kids! Look! The Doctor isn't the Doctor after all - he's actually a really bad guy who the overwhelming majority of you have never heard of before and don't give a shit about! Win!"

While we're desperately stretching, how about Bad Wolf being something that's got inside the TARDIS and is preventing it from being able to leave the Earth's gravitational pull? Because, right now, the Doc appears to have been telling Rose a bit of a porky when he said that it was a spaceship - in fact, you might as well completely remove the IS part from the name at the moment, for all the actual space travelling it's done. TARD is a rather unfortunate name, though.

11:17 / 31.05.05

I don’t think that’s such a desperate stretch. I was thinking along similar lines, maybe some kind of bubble universe thing - like Zenith Phase IV - with ‘Bad Wolf’ running thru it like the writing in a stick of rock. The Doctor’s talked about going other places in the universe: at the end of WW3, weren’t they off to chase a stream of gas through the centre of the galaxy, or something? I think RTD has said that the stories we see are all set around Earth so the audience has some point of connection, or can relate, or whatever. Not that I can find a quote, and not as though he’s averse to a bit of gentle misdirection, the scamp.

Agree that this Master stuff is complete bollocks. Or I bloody well hope it is, at least. For all the reasons you said. Thank God I’m not alone.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:39 / 31.05.05

Again, the tabloids are going on about the "Bad Wolf" episode being about reality TV- I really hope RTD doesn't go down the "but the Bad Wolf is the very medium you're watching right now- do you see?" route.

I always kind of liked the idea that the Doctor and the Master were ALWAYS the same person, but able to meet and thwart each other's plans through the convenient device of time travel. It would have been shit in practise, though; more something for a "what if?"/dream/non-canonical story.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:40 / 31.05.05

Also, I haven't read the new novels yet, but at least one appears to be set "off-earth". Not sure how continuity/property rights work with these things, though.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

14:59 / 31.05.05

I think it was said a couple of pages back that they are EU, it's the book's job to correspond with what's said in the TV series, the TV series can flatly contradict the books if it wants to.

I have to agree that dragging in the Master, while it might make for a cool story, seems unlikely in terms of RTD stated aims of keeping the show simple for people who have never seen it before, ie: the target audience of families including youngish children.

Look at UNIT, 'they're good people', 'I've worked with them before', not "I spend a period of time in what you define as the early seventies banished to earth and worked with them to stop various aliens from destroying the home counties. Why the aliens wanted to destroy the home counties I don't knoew, maybe they really dislike boarding schools".

Bringing in the Master on similar, continuity-free terms would also be pointless, "I'm posessed by the Master!" would have no more resonance than "I'm posessed by Ron Atkinson!". In fact, being posessed by Ron Atkinson would be cooler, and would explain why he doesn't like Mickey...

It could just be that he gets shot by a Dalek, the last Dalek even... (though, to make this clear, not the last Dalek from 'Dalek'. That one is dead.)

I did think that a good story for the second series might be a bunker story on an unnamed planet where the Doctor never names himself and, at the end, the only other survivor of the bunker's destruction turns out to be Davros, as a way of reintroducing him back into the story...

Mister Six, whom all the girls

16:02 / 31.05.05

Please no Davros.

Aside from the genius of Genesus, he works well in Revelation and is the only good thing in Ressurection. He is not a terribly necessary character. From his creation onwards it was seen as absolutely necessary that he be in every Dalek story. I don't think it's contractually needed now. So unless it's a story that adds anything to anything with him, please leave him out.

I've not seen anything in the Doctor's behavior to indicate his being posessed either. Christ, Sylvester McCoy's Doctor was shiftier than Eccleston's. From T Baker onwards erratic has been the Doctor's middle name.

I've read that pics of Bad Wolf have been posted in the Sun showing the Doctor in the Big Brother chair (means nothing to me as I've not seen the program) and insinuates that Rose ends up on weakest link. Neither idea really appeals to me and since it's been a rumor before the series had begun, I think it's a false one. Anyone seen them?

18:06 / 31.05.05

That works in the "Bad Wolf" being an idea RTD didn't know what to do with but still peppered the words throughout the series.
Makes a good deal of sense for someone to come along and give it an entirely new twist than just the Doctor is Bad Wolf.

18:31 / 31.05.05

God, sorry to be a prick about this, but please. Yer actual pre-transmission spoilers and mere pre-transmission speculation are two different conversations that should happen in two different threads. Surely. Starting a new thread is a piece of piss, remember. Can all the people who definitely know things go and talk in a huddle that doesn’t require the people who are still guessing having to pick their way around their posts? Doesn't that sound fair?

19:05 / 31.05.05

Jesus.

Right, spoilers-only thread here. Six, rawkus, I've reposted your two spoilertastic posts in there.

19:18 / 31.05.05

Thanks for that, man.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

19:56 / 31.05.05

This is all terribly strange as this thread is full of speculatuion, but sure I'll play along.

Just give me candy.

20:08 / 31.05.05

Well, we'd sort of covered the difference between spoilers and speculation earlier on in the thread - it might be on the previous page, I think. I realise that I'm setting myself up for some "but you said..." posts here, though, so as further clarification:

When I'd requested that spoilers be clearly marked as such, I was kind of expecting that the only give-aways that were going to be posted would be along the same sort of lines as those that Cube had already typed out earlier on in the thread. Hints. Not posts giving away the entire plots of future episodes - and that one of yours, with the big monster quote, does sound like a reveal of an entire plot, rather than just a casual hint.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

20:49 / 31.05.05

Anyhow, as the series is going terribly well and some of you are rejoining the world of Who (some may never have left and can rejoin society... finally), there are others who're experiencing the program for the first time.

My question is, and feel free to sprinkle off into another thread as well like budding microscopic organisms, are any of you buying the DVDs of the Classic Who stories? If so, what'dya think and which did you buy?

Is there any carryover into Classic Who? The new series is doing quite well in defining its own cosmos which I love, but is there anything in it that would cause a new viewer to buy, say, the Two Doctors or Tomb of the Cybermen (a must have by the by).

22:19 / 31.05.05

Not that I've noticed. When the show's past has been referenced, it's been in a very loose way without any harking back to actual events. The Cyberman helmet's the best example that I can think of - something that's there purely as a wink and a nod to long-time fans, but has absolutely no bearing on the current plot. The Doctor's previous experiences with the Autons were never mentioned, either - for all new viewers know, they could have been a monster peculiar to New Who.

This is a good thing.

16:26 / 01.06.05

Spoiler issues duly noted but I didn't say anything I hadn't already said back on page four of this thread.

Does this series make me hanker for some retro Who?
Dear God No.

In fact it makes me wonder why it couldn't have always been this good.
Onwards and upwards but never backwards.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

19:57 / 01.06.05

I've been browsing the old DVDs with every intention of picking some up... but there're so many to choose from! Do I go with ones I don't remember, or old favourites to begin with? It's such a tough decision...

Our Lady Has Left the Building

08:42 / 02.06.05

I must admit that I haven't bought much yet, but that's because of the BBC's general attitude towards Videos and DVDs, which has always been to try and milk fans for all they can get. After all, look at the DVDs for the New Doctor Who, three to a DVD and no extras. Compare that to your average American show which at the very least will have four episodes and then maybe the barest special features like adverts or a five minute interview with the director.

It could have been so good, but no...

11:14 / 02.06.05

The lack of extras is very daft - if they'd put the relevant episodes of Doctor Who Confidential on them I'd have considered it. As it is, I'll stick to recording it off the telly.

11:37 / 02.06.05

There's a complete season dvd box coming out in December, apparently with extras (although not the Dr Who Confidential stuff that's been running on BBC3). It's in a TARDIS box.

Regarding the other dvd's, hideously over-priced and the good ones take forever to drop. But some of them have quite good extras. The Curse of Fenris was okay, as was Spearhead from Space with it's UNIT promotional video. Rememberance of the Daleks was totally devoid.

I'm just hoping the big surprise at the end of the season is the arrival of one Absalom Daak, Dalek Killer.

11:40 / 02.06.05

Ah, you should hold out until the 13 episode DVD set, purportedly crammed with special features.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

14:22 / 02.06.05

In regards to the DVDs, check out bensonsworld.uk where they are terribly cheap. I was honeymooning in the UK two weeks ago (lovely sideways rain you lot have) and planned on picking up the excellent Mind Robber and questionable Claws of Axos but at 20 pounds a piece said fergettit. It's cheaper for me to order them online from the US!

And for DVDs, I recommend Dalek Invasion of Earth, Tomb of the Cybermen, Spearhead from Space, Ark in Space, Talons of Weng Chiang, and Pyramids of Mars. The others get iffy for my taste, but I'm a classic Who nut, so what do I know?

Mister Six, whom all the girls

14:27 / 02.06.05

And just to clarify, my post is not based on insider info, but speculation so calm down.

And the 'Lost in Time' DVD is one of my all time favorite discs. If you can at least rent this do. It's full of episodes from stories that are not 'complete' in the archives and even clips when full episodes are unavailable. The set includes the Dalek Masterplan which ran 12 parts and Evil of the Daleks. Truly class Who which you really must see.

Anyhow, on the new show, what are your thoughts on the controls of the TARDIS? I personally like the insane nonsense of them but for some who prefer the button-y 80's console it can be a bit silly.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

17:31 / 02.06.05

It's a bit too silly for me, when the way to steer the TARDIS is to use something that looks like a bicycle pump, squeeze what looks like the ball that you used to use in washing machines and then hit the console with a mallet we're into the 'but it's fer kids innit?' territory. But otherwise, I love the the look of the thing, with the gantry, the massive central column into the ceiling and the old walls. I hope in S.2 we'll see a bit more of the TARDIS, maybe a story set inside the TARDIS would be nice.

20:18 / 02.06.05

Like I said upthread, I think the TARDIS having the mish-mash of controls that it does currently is pretty important. Eccleston's Doctor, almost uniquely, appears to have absolute control over where and when it goes. The Doctor should never be in complete control of the TARDIS, so having the controls look like they could give in at any point is an effective counter-balance.

It also gives the impression that the TARDIS doesn't want to be spick and span or under anybody's thumb. Yeah, sure, you've given me a nice new coat of paint. You know what though, fucker? You ain't coming anywhere near my important bits with that standard SF decor. You want me to go where you tell me to go? Fine you're going to have to do it with me looking like I'm made out of scrap. Don't like it? Fuck you. Go get a new TARDIS if you're going to argue. Oh, I forgot. You can't. You destroyed them all.

That sort of thing.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

22:08 / 02.06.05

Actually the Doctor's control of the TARDIS has never been all that cut and dry. In the 60's he couldn't get it to go anywhere he wanted. Hartnell spent most of his time trying to get his companions back home, for instance. Pertwee tried in vain to show Sarah Jane the blue crystals of Metabilis 3 and only achieved this in his last story. Tom Baker could only get the coordinates right when he wanted to go to his local. Davison practically gave a tour of Human history after trying several times to get Tegan back to 80's London... which is confusing. Colin Baker did and didn't have control and McCoy was in complete control, using his supreme knowledge to even wipe out the Daleks and Cybermen in his shopping list of extreme justice.

... so I'm a Doctor Who geek, shuddap.

22:15 / 02.06.05

And don't forget when Baker One installed a randomiser on the TARDIS, to..er..randomise, his destination. Did the Movie Doctor have control of the TARDIS? Did the movie Doctor even use the TARDIS, I can't quite recall.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

22:20 / 02.06.05

Well.. he DID get laid, so... chicks dig the TARDIS.

Oh and not to sound like my mum but bbcshop is running a special 'buy one get one free' deal on Doctor Who DVDs.

11:32 / 03.06.05

Regrettable Juvenilia

11:51 / 03.06.05

If you're concerned by the thought that the universe has been irrevocably altered by an enormous experiment in neuro-linguistic programming, then just tell yourself "The Bad Wolf is not real. The Bad Wolf is not real. The Bad Wolf is not real."

Waaaaah!

17:05 / 03.06.05

Damn Bizunuzib got there first by posting the following url.

http://www.badwolf.org.uk

It's worth exploring the site a bit and listening to the music links on the Revelations page. Needless to say don't visit it if you want to avoid spoilers.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

17:55 / 04.06.05

It's a bit of a dodge to face the Doctor with consequences and then sidestep them in a lovely neat way. But beyond that it was actually quite a nice episode, much better than any episode with the Slyveen deserves to be.

And the Doctor and Jack ARE sleeping together! Excellent!

Poor old Mickey, but it seems more like RTD doesn't quite know what to do with him, it's a proper messy consequence to the Doctor's actions.

And I hope the whole thing with the Doctor saying 'Bad Wolf' doesn't matter is just him deliberately misleading Rose, not that he truly thinks it doesn't matter.

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

18:02 / 04.06.05

I really like this in a "issue where all the X-Men potter around the mansion" sort of a way.

Withiel: DALI'S ROTTWEILER

19:36 / 04.06.05

This was much better than it had any right to be - the bits with the murder attempts in the restaurant and the Avengers-pastiche chase scene were pure joycore, as was Cap' Jack's flirting with the Doctor. However, I found that the end of the episode felt really truncated for no apparent reason, and the deus ex machina was just crap, really. Roll on the Daleks, I say...

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