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The New Doctor Who

  
  

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Bed Head
11:18 / 13.06.05
Well, lula was kind of quoting with 'voices we may recognise', which made me think it was an objection, but I couldn’t tell if her post was in reference to something I’d said, and that’s why I asked. For clarification, I didn’t say I recognised anything. There’s a mystery voice, and it’s open to speculation as to who it belongs to. Nobody in this thread actually knows for sure, because if you *do* know something, there’s now a separate thread for you to post in. And anyway, unless I’ve missed it, I think everyone’s even been sensitive enough to avoid quoting what The Voice actually said.

So, it’s been speculation, not spoiler, surely? Unless ‘someone says something’ is now counting as a spoiler.


Captain Jack = best companion EVAH. He keeps a gun up his arse - nuff said - but I also love the way he's half 1940s clean-cut American GI, half polysexual ethically ambiguous conman, and somehow the two integrate seamlessly. Apparently he'll be back next season, which is a relief.

Ahhhh, yes. And the ‘polysexual’ theme runs throughout the series. A few episodes ago I think there was an objection in this thread that Rose was (shock) flirting with two blokes at once, but in the wonderful world of the new Doctor Who, that kind of thing is absolutely, joyously fine. This episode, Doctor finds time to invite Lynda-with-a-Y aboard his Tardis with That Smile of his, and Jack flirts with everyone, even the robots. The constant flirting is what makes the heroes the heroes. And twenty years from now, all the people who've grown up on the RTD Dr Who will doubtless be forging a wonderful new world.

I can't avoid a little more of my ‘oh woe, Eccles is leaving!!1!’ wailing, because he and Jack make such a lovely couple. But while I’m not really sure how having pretty Tennant as the Doctor is going to affect the balance of the Tardis three, I do like this vision of the future.
 
 
sleazenation
11:29 / 13.06.05
This spoilers lark is getting a little ridiculous - we are talking about something that has been broadcast! it isn't a secret and doesn't reveal who the speaker is although i maintain what is said offers a clue...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
11:46 / 13.06.05
There are a couple of reasons that Jack recognises the Dalek warships

There's no problem with him recognising thier ships. The problem is him believing/knowing that they were supposedly all killed in the Timer War.

Lula> The Daleks have obviously been letting humanity believe that it's responsible for all the tv stations. The Controller's got access to the Daleks' power and can act of her own accord during brief periods when interference kills their signal. Maybe during one of those breaks she stuck the name 'Bad Wolf' into the system - the Daleks aren't really going to care what the station's called and the other humans would just presume that the name had been thought up by the mysterious powers that be.

A couple of times she says "I brought the Doctor here." She did it, not the Daleks - why would they want him there? They fear him. Why would they be dropping hints about their masterplan throughout time?
 
 
electricinca
11:58 / 13.06.05
Spatula Clarke wrote:
Go back to my earlier post about Jack. He comes from a 51st Century version of humanity that hasn't been stunted by the Daleks - we know this because he fits in exactly with what the Doctor knows a 51st Century human to be. The technology's right, the culture's right, the outlook on life's right. Now, the only way that this can be is if the Doctor manages to defeat the Daleks in the next episode.

But... if the Doctor defeats the Daleks in the next episode and enables humanity to evolve the way it was supposed to, then it must surely be written in the history books that humanity was enslaved by the Daleks (or an alien race, at any rate). Which means that humanity in the 51st Century, for Jack to be who he is, must know about Satellite Whateveritscalled and the shenanigans that went on around it - the reality shows, the slavery, the stunted evolution. Which means that Jack must know. But he doesn't.

Yes? No?

No Jack shouldn't know.

The events on Satellite 5 occur in roughly the year 200 000 which would be the distant future from Jack's own time of the 51st Century i.e. the years 5001 to 5100. I suspect that the Daleks started interfering with the human race after the 51st century or at least had very little effect at that time.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
13:21 / 13.06.05
Is it totally inconceivable that, during their time together, the Doctor has told Jack about the Daleks and the time war and shown him what the Dalek's ships looks like?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
13:22 / 13.06.05
Well, that pissed on my cornflakes.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
13:33 / 13.06.05
If part of Jack’s memory has been erased then how do we know if we can rely on anything else he claims to recall. We could easily be looking a total recall type situation, with him having been set up with a head full of false memories, specifically for the purposes of some sort of insidious plot. It also occurs to me that it’s just about possible that Jack himself could be the bad wolf, during the time he doesn’t remember.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:13 / 13.06.05
In an interview with John Barrowman, he states that Jack's missing memory won't be dealt with this season, but it will be dealt with eventually...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:40 / 13.06.05
Legba has a point wrt the Dr or Rose telling Jack stuff: no, it is not totally inconceivable. In fact, I find it hard to believe they WOULDN'T have discussed it. Especially if, as seems to be the case, they're having adventures IN BETWEEN the episodes. A Time Agent is bound to be curious about the last Time Lord... not to mention the fact that Rose is still probably fairly fucking curious about the whole thing...
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
16:35 / 13.06.05
I'm really confused about how the Controller managed to leave clues for the Doctor AND lift him, Jack and Rose out of the TARDIS while it was in the time stream. It was definitely her that left clues, but... how?

Surely it's impossible to break into the TARDIS, right?

Well... there was a gargoyle head in Davison's time, a wandering spirit in Colin Baker's time and a sparkler flitted by in Tom Baker's Masque of Mandragora. So while there is a precedence for alient intelligences and garden gnomes getting through the TARDIS defences, I hope the explain it because it's bugging me.

Also, the multiverse theory is a very good. I like it a lot. But the 63-89 series is so full of the Doctor's eyes bugging out at every turn that his companion not tamper with history that it doesn't really work. That's no reason to not apply it to the new series, just wanted to point out that in the previous episodes the Doctor has treated the timeline as a delicate thing that he has to protect and preserve.

And Daleks are very tightly tied tp human history. Most to all Dalek stories involve human history and you should rent the very fun Day of the Daleks to see the Doctor stop a Dalek Earth invasion through time travel, ensuring in the past that the future invasion never happened.

I don't think the humans are being turned into robo-men (first seen in the Hartnell story Dalek Invasion of Earth, then used again in the Cushing movie of that serial). I think they're being re-manufactured into Daleks. I read somewhere (might've been here) that was why the Doctor goaded the Daleks into killing Rose. He knew they wouldn't. Because they're not true Daleks? I dunno. Maybe.

It's really great to see the old Dalek saucer designs. They did this on the Dalek Invasion of Earth DVD which is amazing.

I'm unclear about how everything (the rift, the Time War, Bad Wolf, Satellite 5, the progress of the Human race) all ties together and I'm not 100% sure it all will but it's fun to see all the theories.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
16:56 / 13.06.05
I get the feeling that the "Bad Wolf" hinting throughout the series is now considered "covered" by the writers.
Which is plainly ridiculous because it wasn't.

There's plenty we can extrapolate from what was said but in this one instance I really don't want ambiguity.

I want the Controller (now deceased) to say, outright, that she left subliminal clues throughout history so the Doctor would start becoming suspicious and when he did finally arrive at Bad Wolf TV he'd investigate further, thereby finding the Daleks.

Bah.
 
 
Bed Head
17:30 / 13.06.05
I want the Controller (now deceased) to say, outright, that she left subliminal clues throughout history so the Doctor would start becoming suspicious and when he did finally arrive at Bad Wolf TV he'd investigate further, thereby finding the Daleks.

Is that what happened? The problem I’ve got with this ‘throughout history’ bit is that I don’t really think the controller can do any travelling thru time stuff. She just brought them into the games - and while I’m easily geeky enough to accept something like a superpowered transmat beam intercepting the tardis travellers in transit, I still don't see *how* the controller would manage to felt-tip ‘Bad Wolf’ onto a poster in nineteen-eightywhenever, for example. Geekness can sometimes make the everyday stuff like felt-tips seem a bit unlikely. I’m happier with the idea of the Tardis projecting this stuff as a way of nudging the Doctor towards realising what’s going on: the Bad Wolf ‘clues’ follow his timeline, after all, and while they’ve all been pretty rubbish as proper clues left by someone, they do kind of work as subliminal weirdness being overlaid on reality. Or something. Personally, I’m not too sure I want everything wrapped up too perfectly.

In a similar vein, I’m really hoping ‘bad wolf’ just turns out to be poetic-ish way of saying ‘bad stuff maaan’, rather than the identity of an actual Secret Villain or anything like that.


Also, thinking of the Donnie Darko time travel model, where it all noodles off into a pocket universe - the daleks have been doing this ‘manipulating human history’ thing since... when, exactly? And is the doctor going to have to go back and fix it from that point if everything’s going to be put back to normal, a la Donnie Darko, or does he just beat them and let humanity carry on from there?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:55 / 13.06.05
Presumably, though, the Daleks have access to time travel. And if the Controller has access to the Dalek's technology and systems, then so does she. She must have in order to lock onto and transport the various inhabitants of the TARDIS.

I'm not suggesting that she flew back in time and felt-tipped Bad Wolf onto the posters herself, but that she managed to implant the idea to do so inside the head of whoever did. We already know that somebody was manipulating minds to get the message across at certain points - we see the kid who daubed it on the side of the TARDIS, after all. Similarly, the servant girl in the Dickens episode must have had the idea inserted into her noggin by an outside force, because at this point Rose hadn't been anywhere near a Dalek.

Or maybe she managed to forge some kind of link with the TARDIS, and has been working with its psychic shiznits to plant the idea. But if that were the case and it is partly because of the TARDIS, then surely it would have just landed on the satellite and had done with it, rather than faff about trying to plany subliminal messages and wait for the random chance that the Controller might just happen to nab them.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
18:30 / 13.06.05
trailer #1 up at official bbc site

... weird.
 
 
Bed Head
18:35 / 13.06.05
Spats >> Hm. Well, the Tardis is a) alive and b) mysterious. It can turn monsters into eggs, after all, so if we’re in doubt, ‘the Tardis did it’ might be a good bet.

Fact is, unless I missed the line, the controller *didn’t* say that she’d left any clues throughout history - she only claimed to be responsible for hiding the tardis crew in the games. And, I dunno, the ‘leaving clues’ thing seems a bit unlikely if they’re supposed to be proper clues - all of time and space is rather too big to just start scattering random clues about in the hope that the doctor will stumble across them and work it all out.

Oh, let’s go with your controller/Tardis psychic team-up theory. I like that one. I’m only pushing this ‘it doesn’t mean anything!’ line because I’m terrified that they’re going to turn out not to have been clues at all but rather ‘taunts’ and we’re going to have a villain called Bad Wolf who steps out from behind a screen and cackles and twirls his beard. Please God.
 
 
Triplets
19:27 / 13.06.05
That'd be ace.


However, on the BW site one of the theories is that, in the way the psychic ID works, the Tardis has sussed out what's going on.. Jigging the brains of Doctor, Rose and Scrumpy Jack, showing them Bad Wolf everywhere.

Didn't the vision the maid saw in Rose's head look an awful lot like a Tardis jump-tunnel?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:36 / 13.06.05
We never got to see her vision, Triplets - last week's montage of the Bad Wolf moments had the opening credits' 'tunnel' sequence superimposed over the top of them all as an attempt to show that they were linked to each other, nothing more. Think of those 'wavy horizontal lines floating across the screen' effects that you used to get in TV shows every time they wanted to show a flashback.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
19:47 / 13.06.05
The problem being I honestly don't think there will be any explanation or resolution to all the Bad Wolf stuff.
Q. What/Who is Bad Wolf?
A. The television station that the Daleks run.

It feels like we've had all the conclusion to that question that we're going to get.
RTD didn't know what he meant by Bad Wolf when it was scattered through the episodes. So this minimal explanation will suffice...

I hope I'm wrong but I also hope if I AM wrong then none of you with those TARDIS ideas are right. That sounds plain awful. WHY would the TARDIS be doing any of it for a start? How would it know about the Bad Wolf tv station? and the connection with the Daleks.

Argh! Four more days.

Trailer sounds good. "God" of the Daleks eh?

Van Staten?
 
 
Bed Head
20:06 / 13.06.05
I’m about to bail out of this thread while you all discuss the new trailers, but first, just to check...

RTD didn't know what he meant by Bad Wolf when it was scattered through the episodes.

Has this ever actually been said in the public domain? We’re not all relying on your mysterious insider source for this piece of information that changes everything, are we? I haven't seen any of the Confidentials, so has RTD or anyone said anything like this at any point?
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
20:20 / 13.06.05
I don't think so... although it is so ingrained into my memory that I can actually picture him saying it on Dr Who Confidential whilst still being quite sure that he did no such thing.

All of my "source's" other info has been right (ok, except the Dalek/Jack naked torture scene... that was so off kilter as to be embarrassing!)

He's more likely to be right about non-episode specific behind the scenes information as that's where he works.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:33 / 13.06.05
Guys, if you want to talk about the one-a-day trailers, the spoilers thread is just over thataway. The trailer at the end of the episode itself is fair enough because most will have seen that along with the episode, but there'll be plenty of people who are going to be avoiding the others, just as they would mid-week spoilers on the 'Net.

Bed> I'm not sure about Bad Wolf, but on a related note he's made it relatively clear that he didn't really care about the specifics of the Time War - "it's just something that sounds cool" is what I think he said.
 
 
Tom Tit's Tot: A Girl!
22:15 / 13.06.05
RTD didn't know what he meant by Bad Wolf when it was scattered through the episodes.

Has this ever actually been said in the public domain?

No, not once.

The problem being I honestly don't think there will be any explanation or resolution to all the Bad Wolf stuff.

I have to disagree, but we'll see.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
10:35 / 14.06.05
Why is discussing the trailer at the end of the ep fair game and the other trailers/previewed eps not? Ever since it became obvious that the BBC were going to spoil the next episode before the end credits even started, I've been very careful about TURNING OFF MY FUCKING TV. It's not rocket surgery, for god's sake. And you've all been complaining about the 'next time of Doctor Who' trailer because you consider it to to be a spoiler. There's now a thread for spoilers. This is not it. Stop being so bloody inconsistent.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
11:43 / 14.06.05
Because I've been trying my fucking hardest to get the rules for the thread sorted out in a way that pleases the majority of people contributing to it, and the majority of people have been watching and discussing the end-of-episode trailers. Lula's the first person to complain about it and by that point any potential damage that discussion of the trailer could cause already had been.

I'd be more convinced of my need to pay attention to you if you'd actually added anything of worth to the thread, Jack. As usual, though, it seem that youve just logged into Barbelith for a moan - I mean, you've apparently managed to miss the many, many posts discussing trailers that have appeared in this thread every bloody week so far. At least nobody's ever going to be able to accuse you of inconsistency, eh?
 
 
Olulabelle
14:57 / 14.06.05
I'm sorry. I wasn't meaning to complain, I was just so pleased to have turned the TV off in time and then the first post I saw here sort of mentioned what happened in the traier, in so far as it included a voice I should recognise.

I have to admit to being slightly confused about Dr Who thread protocol, but I thought the other thread was for trailers and previews and spoilers and everything.

Anyway, like I said before, it's no biggie.

I don't want to be responsible for starting the spoiler war again.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:05 / 14.06.05
If it helps, I don't know what the "voice you should recognise" thing is about. The voice I heard was generic gruff monster baddie.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
17:45 / 14.06.05
My speculation, as someone who knows NOTHING of Dr Who history.

The Daleks have been screwing with humanity since at LEAST the first episode, 2005.

When The Dr and Rose go to the end of the world, its far enough in the future that that era hasnt been effected yet, because there is still the likleyhood of the Dr beating the Daleks.

Bad Wolf keeps popping up as a subliminal message to us and the TARDIS crew because what the Daleks are doing is effecting the whole world on a subliminal level. The kid wrote Bad Wolf, likely without knowing why. The same goes for the alien mayor naming the power plant, she even says she didnt know why she did it.

Now, seeing as how this is a time travel thing, you can either say the Daleks were screwing with earth as far back as the 80s when Rose's father was killed. My theory on that is that is all started when The Dr showed up in 2005 and beat the plastic thing. Basically (like that word fits theories on fictional time travel) the events of the first episode somehow allowed whomever it is who saved the Daleks to know that The Dr had survived the time war (who else could have beaten the plastic blob thing?). So the villian knows where the Dr started mucking with earth again, and heads there after the TARDIS leaves, knowing the Dr isnt likely to return to the same time/space again. Isnt it 12 months later when the kid graffitis the TARDIS?

So, since 2005 the Daleks have been messing with earth for some reason, and 200,000 years later theirs plans are close to finishing, but the Controller grabs the Dr hoping to stop them.

Reading that through it sounds kind of shit, but i still like my idea of the Bad Wolf popping up everywhere...
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
17:48 / 14.06.05
Also, Bad Wolf showing up in the past could be shockwaves through time caused by whatever the Daleks are doing, or even the impending conflict in the next episode.
 
 
Bed Head
08:36 / 15.06.05
Once again, lula: when you say there was a post that sort of mentioned what happened in the traier, in so far as it included a voice I should recognise., I didn’t say that. No-one did. I’ve tried to say this already, but I’ll try again in case anyone else reading this is also now convinced they’ve been spoiled. If you’re referring to my post - and I'm still unclear on that, because all we know is that you're unhappy about something that was said on page 16 - this is what I actually said:

*you* think you know who that voice in the trailer was, and *I* think I know who that voice was, but The Kids will have no. idea. whatsoever.

Now, I know that my posts can often be clumsily written and a bit inept, but this line is supposed to mean that I’ve got an idea, mmmmmaybe, and other posters might think they know - and they may well have someone completely different in mind, because that’s all part of the fun of speculating - but we’ll all be speculating in our own particular ways because we’re geeky fans; as opposed to a little kid with no lifelong history of watching Dr Who, for whom it might *just* be a scary voice. Yes, it’s only a 'generic gruff monster baddie voice', just like fly said. That’s all it is, and the spoilers are in our heads, maaan: *that* was my entire point, and it was actually in response to the general view that seemed to be floating around that everything had already been given away in the trailer. Because I didn't think it had. I didn’t “recognise” anything, and I didn’t come here and say that there was anything recognisable or anything that you “should recognise”. Maybe if you had heard the voice, you wouldn’t be having such difficulty believing me, lula, but I’m insisting for the second or third time that I haven’t said anything spoilerific.

So: sorry for not expressing myself very well at the time, sorry for giving the impression that you might have been spoiled by something I’d said, and I hope you accept the apologies and the clarification and consider yourself unspoiled again in time for Saturday tea-time.

And I’m not sure how anyone *could* manage to restart the spoiler wars because of what I or anyone else has actually said in this thread over the last few days. It looks to me like everyone’s been trying really hard to behave themselves in here.

***

In related news, I love that the BBC is now telling us all to get off the internet. And to avoid their own trailers, bizarrely. The BBC in full-on 'auntie' mode: it's like they're as excited about it as we are. It's like a Christmas present we've got to wait to open in front of them.
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
13:35 / 15.06.05
Didn't the Daleks start the spoiler war of 2100 AD?

It really is terribly interesting to see the Beeb squirming in its own juices over the anticipation of this Saturday. But I guess it will give the fans the first full scale Dalek war ever though that dies not involve three Daleks milling about and ex soap actors screaming 'Ahh!' as they fall to the ground gentle as a feather, so there's reason to get excited.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
16:47 / 15.06.05
"Judging from the reactions I've had, a lot of people seem to think the Bad Wolf has already been revealed. Oh, it's the TV station. Oh, it's half a million Daleks. I've even got one friend claiming it's the Face of Boe! I must get better friends.

"I don't want to give anything away yet, but there is another revelation to come in Saturday's episode. We haven't discovered the true Bad Wolf yet."

I feel better... glad my concerns (upthread) can all be considered null and void.

Yay!
 
 
A fall of geckos
16:57 / 15.06.05
The UNIT website has been updated.

The new password is badwolf.

There's further info about the previous invasion:

Initial Assessment: Massive Problem. Big Ben’s in ruins, the damn craft is lying in the Thames and the government are being less than helpful. Plus the wretched thing was caught on 57 traffic cams. If anything dares emerge from inside, the first thing it’s going to get is the Congestion Charge.

There's also some stuff on Rose and page on the auctioning of what appears to be the Dalek.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
18:05 / 15.06.05
I'd be more convinced of my need to pay attention to you if you'd actually added anything of worth to the thread, Jack. As usual, though, it seem that youve just logged into Barbelith for a moan - I mean, you've apparently managed to miss the many, many posts discussing trailers that have appeared in this thread every bloody week so far. At least nobody's ever going to be able to accuse you of inconsistency, eh?

a) stop being such a martyr, you arrogant little prick, and b) ever think there might be a reason why I stopped posting to/reading the fucking thread? Too many fucking spoilers. Didn't complain about it before because posting to this thread isn't really that important an issue in my life, funnily enough, and everyone else seemed happy with the arrangement. Complained about it now because have just seen that there is now a spoilers thread, so avoided that and came back to talk about the last storyline this season, only to find that, weeks down the line, people are still (STILL!) moaning about the spoilers in the end-of-episode trailers, and then discussing them anyway. I disliked the end-of-episode trailers as much as anyone. So I stopped watching them. And bearing in mind that there's now a separate spoilers thread, that it's the season finale, and that I DON'T WANT TO FUCKING KNOW WHAT HAPPENS, I sounded off just a touch. Trust me, it was a lot calmer after I edited out all the cussin'. You know, not wanting to offend anyone. You, I don't give a shit about, because, well, you're a bit of a twat and I don't like you anyway.

Oh, while you're off crying about how no one appreciates you, you might also note that you're the single grouchiest person on this thread, snipping and snapping at everyone because it's apparently so very very difficult to moderate properly, or whatever the hell you're whining about.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
19:19 / 15.06.05
I'm sorry but I think it's pathetic to insist on a new thread for discussion of something that was shown along with this weeks episode.
I also think it's just as ridiculous to complain about people discussing what was shown THIS WEEK! Be it episode or trailer.

Advance spoilage, yes, that I understand and it was duly taken to the spoilers thread.
But to be so god damn nitpicky and cry-baby about a trailer is just a waste of everyone's time.
To then have to have yet ANOTHER argument about it is even more pointless.

Can we all just agree to discuss what has been televised here (episodes and trailers) and any secretive advance spoilerage, ie: things that haven't been televised, in the other thread?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
19:27 / 15.06.05
CEASE YOUR HUMAN INFIGHTING AND GAZE UPON THE FACE OF BOE.



selectah
 
  

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