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The New Doctor Who

 
  

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Spatula Clarke
19:51 / 30.04.05
Oh, did he not write this one? I didn't pay much attention to the opening credits, but he was taking credit for it in the BBC3 show.
 
 
Lama glama
20:56 / 30.04.05
Wasn't particularly crazy about this episode. The casting was poor, and the faux American accents grated unbelievable. I don't foresee enjoying Todd from Coronation Street as the Doctor's latest companion, although I can't see him staying in it for very long, considering that he is ( spoiler: )







...only cast for this episode and the next, as far as I can tell.

Did anybody else get whiffs of "I, Borg" from this episode? Similar plot that revolves around a former alien killing machine developing feelings. The Doctor stepped into the role of Picard. Rose assumed the role of Troi and Geordi. Different resolution though, what with the Dalek..y'know..self destructing.
 
 
sleazenation
21:35 / 30.04.05
I don't believe it is self destructing at all...
 
 
Mourne Kransky
22:20 / 30.04.05
"I .. am .. a .. lone" Aw... Excellent job, making me empathise with a Dalek. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.

Not sure about Corrie Boy as companion, though.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
00:23 / 01.05.05
Never even realised that the accents were put on, so can't agree with that complaint at all. Same with companion #2 - don't watch Corrie, so not a problem for me in the slightest.

Did anybody else get whiffs of "I, Borg" from this episode?

Mix of elements from Aliens 3 and Resurrection from where I was sitting. Managed to pull it off superbly, though, borrowing bits and bobs from elsewhere yet again (or, rather, taking fairly standard genre themes), but this time making them feel totally at home in this particular fictional universe and not at all like simple homages or steals. Which was a very nice surprise, given how much the trailer for this ep looked like a bland Aliens rip.

Suedey> You're correct, of course. Who's the next one written by?
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
01:45 / 01.05.05
Rose touches Dalek.
Dalek uses the Dr's DNA from Rose's hand to "regenerate" itself.
Somewhere along the lines Rose's DNA gets in the mix therefore the Dalek's closest genetic link (ignoring the Dr for some reason) becomes for all intense purposes it's superior.

Added to the fact that Rose was the "first" human not to be afraid of a Dalek:
Respect + DNA + a little bit of Comic Book Science = storyline resolution.

Worked for me, despite other glaring inaccuracies throughout the episode.


This isn't the last we'll see of the Daleks mind you.
 
 
iamus
03:56 / 01.05.05
This episode should have been called Sympathy for the Dalek.
 
 
sleazenation
05:37 / 01.05.05
The American that I watched it with saw it with didn't think the accents were put on all.. and even if they were, it's not like it's exactly unknown for American actors to put on unconvincing British accents...

I saw no reason why the dalek shell needed to repair itself - all it needed was to repair it's gun stick... And what was the significance of Rose being a time-traveller? How could the Dalek tell through anything other than her memories? Was the Rose/Dalek able to exterminate *anything* by the end of the episode or had it become so weighed down with Existential angst that it had no choice but to take up pipe-smoking and black polo-necks and start annoying people to death with it's views of the bleakness of existence and the absurdity of the cosmos?
 
 
Benny the Ball
06:33 / 01.05.05
then the episode should have been called sympathy for the da-dalak?
 
 
Mourne Kransky
09:35 / 01.05.05
ex .. is .. ten .. tial .. ate
 
 
Whisky Priestess
10:41 / 01.05.05
pont-if-ic-ate!
 
 
Benny the Ball
11:24 / 01.05.05
Sleazenation - are you implying that the dalek travelled through time again rather than self-destructing? I got that impression as a) the doctor explains how it survived by falling through time somehow and b) it had the dna of a timetraveller incorperated in it. Yeah its a stretch, but there you go.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
11:32 / 01.05.05
I saw no reason why the dalek shell needed to repair itself

Because it looked impressive. Does there need to be a reason beyond that? If so, then try this one: with its body rusty and bent out of shape, it couldn't pull off its new moves. The swivelling mid-section, the opening chasis for greebly Dalek brain action, the cyanide pill suicide bumps.

And what was the significance of Rose being a time-traveller?

Borrowed regenerative stuff from the TARDIS.

Next week: we demand a proper, scientifically sound answer to the question of exactly how the Sun provides Superman with his powers and our reporter gets himself bitten by a radioactive spider in order to discover the accuracy of the latest Sam Raimi film.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
11:45 / 01.05.05
Spatula Clarke And what was the significance of Rose being a time-traveller?

Borrowed regenerative stuff from the TARDIS.


And I think that's just stupid. Now, if the Doctor had touched it as well (perhaps if the chains had been a bit looser and the Dalek had jerked forward and bumped into the Doctor) then I'd accept it.

But as it is, so far:
Rose 7/10
End of the World 8/10
Unquiet Dead 8/10
Aliens of London 7/10
World War Three 6/10
Dalek 7andahalf/10
 
 
Seth
12:36 / 01.05.05
It's funny, as I was watching End of the World I felt all my reactions fitting into a one-ten scale, with a quick unconscious calculation during the closing credit.

But...

When I saw Aliens of London the scale was much more of along the A+ to D- axis, with all the attendant increments. What can this mean?
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
12:54 / 01.05.05
I found it odd that most of mine have been fitting in to a 1-5 scale, and then this one surprised me by introducing a percentage scale (67.3%).

I didn't know what to think!
 
 
iamus
13:50 / 01.05.05
I need a slide-rule just to get past the opening credits.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
14:24 / 01.05.05
You're all obviously frustrated school teachers.
 
 
Madman in the ruins.
18:22 / 01.05.05
And when billy-no-mates-darlek downloaded half of the United States engergy leves and the entire internet.

It must have been made u of 99% hard core porn.
 
 
sleazenation
18:57 / 01.05.05
I dunno - I liked the episode enough, but the more I think about it the more little things about it bug me... I get the distinct impression that it had to be cut mercilessly to get it to fit into the 42-odd minutes available.

The were lots of lines that sounded like they had fallen out of a bad episode of Star Trek ‘no, wait, it’s starting to question itself…’ and the line before that ‘where the dalek is talking about ‘the woman that you love…’

Mr Van Saint descends into a 2-dimensional panto-villain lying in an incoherently unbelievable way

There was no explanation as to why the soldiers followed the flunky bird to wipe MR Van saint’s memory- yes he was responsible for many death’s but given his cavalier attitude to human life from the start of the episode I have difficulty believing that this should come as any surprise.

The ideas behind the episode were great… but somehow it didn’t quite fit together for me…
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
00:01 / 02.05.05
There was no explanation as to why the soldiers followed the flunky bird to wipe MR Van saint’s memory

I rationalised that as having something to do with the fact that she was quite blatantly gonna be taking over right from the moment we first met them... I just figured the staff knew which side their bread was buttered on.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
00:06 / 02.05.05
But yeah... the "cut to fit 42 minutes" thing is the only major problem I have with the series so far. Yeah, we've had a (traditionally easily-resolved) cliffhanger now, but I used to count on one of those a week!!! The (usually four, but obviously not always) multi-part story was always a cool thing about Dr Who when I was but a tiny Stoat, and that's the one thing I really miss.
Other than that, I'm having just as much fun with the new ones.

As far as continuity goes... if introducing the entire concept of "regeneration" as a plot device to replace Hartnell doesn't count as taking the piss, I'm not entirely sure what does.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
10:41 / 02.05.05
But that was a stroke of genius whereas the time-traveller DNA thing bugged me. That is unless it's followed up and used in later episodes (Billie's DNA, mutated by cosmic rays, starts leading to strange powers/debiliation? That would be cool.)
 
 
■
11:47 / 02.05.05
Hmm. Daleks wearing ill-fitting underwear and having preposterously good teeth?
 
 
sleazenation
12:11 / 02.05.05
If it is revealed that the Tardis has an even greater effect on it's pilots than simply altering brainwaves to allow people to understand other languages then that would go some way to making the whole time-traveller DNA thing more satisdfying and acceptable, but at the moment it just strikes a bum note...
 
 
■
12:21 / 02.05.05
I reckon they knew Dalek would get good ratings and skimped on script and costs to make the rest better. The next two are much more entertaining, and have some fantastic actors to balance Eccles' raving.
 
 
sleazenation
13:08 / 02.05.05
The intensity and plot were all there... but the the script still had too many duff lines and there were too many leaps in the narrative that were not adequately explored...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
18:33 / 02.05.05
I agree, watching it on the second time it looks a lot better I still think there are leaps of logic in the storyline that don't make sense. I don't think Rose's journey through the episode from appalled-bystander-to-torture to frightened-potential-victim to being-terrorised-by-the-Dalek to defending-it-before-the-Doctor is coherent. Look at episode three, she never really trusts the Gelf when they have equally attempted to kill her. Instead she only cares for the maid. Last week she doesn't want to give the Slitheen the benefit of the doubt when they want to kill her. She makes no good reason for why it's bad for the Doctor to kill a Dalek when she's seen it kill lots of people and when loads of people have been trying to kill it for the preceeding thirty minutes to no complaint from her.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
22:34 / 02.05.05
Because she started to think that there might be some sort of redemption for it, once it began to question the reasons behind its actions. That's not something that the baddies in the previous episodes ever did.

I'm sorry, but it feels to me like people are desperate for this to have been a bad episode and so aren't thinking their criticisms through properly. There were enormous and far more damaging plot/logic holes than these in earlier episodes which nobody's even mentioned in passing yet.
 
 
Bed Head
14:23 / 03.05.05
Aiee. Well, I’ve been thinking through my objections to this episode. Rather a lot. Mainly because I was so very dismayed by how little I enjoyed it, considering how ready I was to love it.

Okay, so: it’s nothing to do with the techy bits, actually - I kinda think that, if I can accept the whole time travel thing, it’d be a bit picky to suddenly find fault with handprint-DNA regenerating thingummys. It’s all magic, isn’t it? How doesn't really matter to me. And I liked the sneaky nasty dalek, the way it ramped up the ‘pity me’ stuff so that Rose would huggle it, and then I loved that it was silent for most of the time - staring down the doctor in the closed-circuit monitor, silently and unfussily setting off the sprinklers and killing everyone without saying a word, without hurrying or ranting or anything. It looked hard as nails, and it didn’t once go into panicky-stupid dalek mode, like daleks occasionally used to. Proper, killing machine stuff, and then the sunbeam bit at the end looked so pretty, and the slimy blob with an eyeball was icky-yet-sympathetic, which can’t exactly be easy to pull off. That's all good. Of course it is.

No, my problem was with the Doctor in this - like, where was he? Because that’s kinda what Dr Who is all about for me. The Doctor. Monsters are always evil and serious and dull, then the Doctor turns up, grins using all his teeth, says ‘fantastic,’ and makes defeating aliens seem like fun. This episode seemed pretty much entirely free of frothy nonsense, it was just deadly serious all the way through. Compare: the most 'Doctorish' moment in WW3 came when, having ramped up the tension and accepted that they're about to fire a missile at Number 10 in order to save the world, he then looks across at Rose... and grins. I'm sorry to all the fans of grim and serious heroes, but I rather like a smiley doctor - it's the way the character can suddenly, unexpectedly flip from Huge Terror to toothy smile that makes him seem alien in a very appealing way. This episode, every time I was waiting for Eccles to do something unexpected, to do something that those other sci-fi heroes wouldn’t have done, he just scowled again and grumped. All the way through. Not a single interesting line. It’s a jolly good job the dalek was almost groovy enough for two.

I dunno. It’s a writerly choice that’s been made, and to judge from this thread, no-one else really minded this stuff. But, for me, having a Doctor that's as grim as his dalek isn't enough, you can't sustain that *one* note for the entire 45 minutes, and it left a massive hole in the middle of this episode where I wanted to be enjoying myself. I kinda think that the doctor should always, always be a)heroic, and b) fun to be around, and he was neither this time. The tone was set straight away with his “I’m getting old...” line, and it stayed pretty much on a level from there. I felt the writer was going all out to make it all significant and portentous, but the “we-are-both-alone-dok-tor” stuff would have worked much better for me if it had been balanced with a Doctor who was capable of moving in unexpected directions. Unexpected, appealing directions, I mean. Torturing a dalek doesn’t count.

Anyway. All of which is, y’know, fair enough. And if you dig around in Who for 5 seconds, you’ll be able to find precedent, it’s probably just my fault that I’m so hung up on Season 16-17 vintage Who. The Tom Baker doctor was far more serious before that particular period, and then he spent most of Season 18 brooding on mortality in a pretty tedious fashion, and the early JNT years could be as po-faced as anything. So serious Dr Who is nothing new.

Having said all that...

This is the way I'm beginning to look at this series: that this is a show produced and written by and featuring long-term fans, long-term contributors to fan culture (RTD, Gatiss, Shearman, Pegg, and doesn’t Paul Cornell write an episode at some point?), all of a certain age, and so possibly all inclined to draw on and try to emulate the vibe of a certain period of the show. ie the Tom Baker, 1970s version.

If you accept that as a premise, I think it’s interesting, the tension in the new series, between the silly-ish episodes and the serious-ish episodes. I mean, 2 out of 6? That could be, like, a mirror of one of the oldest divisions in Dr Who fandom, between fans of Phillip Hinchcliffe-Robert Holmes stuff, and the ones that prefer the Graham Williams-Anthony Read/Douglas Adams stuff, could it not? While it’s true that in this thread the younger posters are finding continuity with McCoy episodes, of which memories may be fresher, I’d still suggest that the Hinchcliffe and the Williams years are *most likely* the two sources that this set of writers is drawing on for their tone, trying to emulate their own formative experiences, and these are the two interpretations of the character that RTD is actually managing to successfully reconcile into the one series. Now, seeing as I rate Destiny Of The Daleks over Genesis.., this week’s ultra-serious episode isn’t really likely be my thing. But - Aliens Of London/WW3 rocked my socks off. So, I guess everyone’s happy, overall.

Sure, I’m stretching. But I don’t think I’m stretching too much to say the writers are trying to update what they think was once good about Dr Who. To then take into account a historical division, that different people want *very* different things from their Dr Who, and rather than saying Talons Of Weng-Chiang (say) is definitely better than Nightmare Of Eden (say), to actually manage to produce something kinda like both, and successfully sit them next to each other, .... well, that’s a rather clever solution.

So, this week's episode left me pretty bored. But I’m glad it’s just me, and that you all *mostly* loved it, and I hope I’ll get something else on my wavelength next or soonish or whenever. In fact, I'm confident of it. Is what I'm saying.
 
 
Bed Head
14:24 / 03.05.05
Yars.

Sorry, I knew I was being ultra-geeky, but I seem to have rattled on and on and on for ages there. Sorry about that, everyone.
 
 
Triplets
14:55 / 03.05.05
:O
 
 
Withiel: DALI'S ROTTWEILER
15:13 / 03.05.05
This episode, every time I was waiting for Eccles to do something unexpected, to do something that those other sci-fi heroes wouldn’t have done, he just scowled again and grumped
I thought that was the point - a sort of nod to the fact that it is a revamp: in the scene where the Doctor comes out of the dark with the huge fuckoff gun, there's a tableau where he's standing in the dark looking leathery and grim, and Rose and the Dalek are in the light. She says something like "Can't you see what you've become?" - possibly indicating that he's turning into a sort of grim-n-gritty gun-toting obsessive hero rather than the Doctor we all know and love. Or something.
 
 
Bed Head
15:28 / 03.05.05
Dude, I think maybe that’d be fine as a punchline or a conclusion or a point to the episode, but 45 minutes of one-note grumpy, dull fucker boiled my brain somewhat.

I’m not seeing your revamp point. Yes, it’s an update, and a very modern one it is too, but I’m suggesting that this Who possibly contains parallels with two specific periods, because it’s being written by people with strong ideas about what works and what doesn’t, partially based on their memories of a show they enjoyed. Dr Who looking grim and waving a gun around isn't in itself anything new. Dr Who being dull is a new one on me, though.
 
 
iamus
18:45 / 03.05.05
The way I see it is that with being all fucked up over the time war it's twisted his head in a knot and he's not able to be at all smiley around Daleks any more. Everything's gone to shit for him and he can't cope.

I'd like it to turn out that this regeneration has been tainted and imprinted with all that nasty shit. So Eccles' run would end with some sort of coming-to-terms and cathartic, self-sacraficing release which forces him to regenerate, dropping all Dr. Eccleston's baggage and coming up shiny and new as Tennant.
 
  

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