BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


V For Vendetta (PICS)

 
  

Page: 1 ... 1011121314(15)1617181920... 22

 
 
Mistoffelees
08:56 / 15.03.06
Hihi, found this on another board.
 
 
sleazenation
09:13 / 15.03.06
It is Hollywood: every story MUST be a love story. Even The Exorcist, which film critic Mark Kermode describes as being a romance between a Priest rediscovering his love of God...
 
 
penitentvandal
12:54 / 15.03.06
...and...?
 
 
Benny the Ball
18:20 / 15.03.06
I always had V has being very asexual and distant, there is a great moment in the book where Evy says somthing, and for a few panels V is nothing but the cold mask, not saying anything, you really get a sense of distance, almost as if the whole idea is alien and uncomfortable to him.
 
 
Dead Megatron
18:39 / 15.03.06
It is Hollywood: every story MUST be a love story

That reminds me Batman Begins, with that unnecessary Dawson Creek girl character. That character, which was Bruce Wayne's childhood friend and only confident, should have been Harvey Dent (Two-Face to be in Batman Begins 2 [Batman Continues?]), but then everybody would say it was "too gay"* for "mainstream America".

*which, incidentaly, would fit the Batman mythos very well, being him so homoerotic anyway.
 
 
zoemancer
05:40 / 17.03.06
Just saw it. Fucking sublime.
 
 
Spaniel
09:40 / 17.03.06
I really need to hear a British point of view on this one as my appreciation of V is deeply bound up with its (and my own) Britishness.

Peter Bradshaw hated it, but then I don't always agree with Peter Bradshaw.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
13:34 / 17.03.06
I really enjoyed the film. The changes made me go icky for a few seconds at a time, but that faded when the next scene was almost direct from the book.

I am very happy that this movie was not terrible, because I was expecting the worst.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:58 / 17.03.06
I have to agree. Once you get past the 'explaining who Guy Fawkes was for the stupid people' (I suppose that's harsh, if British schoolkids don't know about Auschwitz I suppose it's too much to expect they or American kids will know who Guy Fawkes actually was), recasting him as a freedom fighter rather than any historical actuality, it's fairly good.

They softpeddle on the Government somewhat, they're still bastards but I felt they were less explicitly fascist than in the book. V, who I've never really liked, is reframed somewhat as a more sympathetic freedom fighter, he's not really an anarchist any more, and the clip of him spouting all those v words is probably the crappest bit of the entire film.

We never find out who V is and most of the key scenes, like Valerie's story, are still there. A new edition is that Evie leaves V and is taken in by Dietrich, a sympathetic character extremely well-played by Stephen Fry. I think that scene works better than the Valerie one and is so similar I wonder whether they were toying for a while with deleting it.

Even the 'march of a thousand Vs' isn't too bad, in the context of the film, and the reframing of V. I hope the success of this film will help persuade Hollywood that you don't need top-star names (possibly the only reason V never takes his mask off) and that setting a film in the UK isn't going to be a commercial suicide (looking askance at the remakes of The Italian Job, Get Carter and The Wicker Man here). But you know, watching this film I couldn't help but feel that Billie Piper would have made a better Evie than Natalie Portman. Not that Natalie is bad, just that 'Parting of the Ways' has Billie doing everything that Natalie has to do here. Hugo Weaving is great as ever.

Yeah, so pretty good after all. Now I have to go write 'Vendetta Warrior'...
 
 
Spaniel
18:22 / 17.03.06
I'm glad you liked it, Flowers. I'll consider watching it now.
 
 
Dead Megatron
18:29 / 17.03.06
I have nothing to say, I just wanted to be post # 500.

It's only gonna open in my country in April. Gaaaahhh, the wait!!!
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:31 / 17.03.06
Boboss, ouch!
 
 
Hieronymus
19:38 / 17.03.06
and the clip of him spouting all those v words is probably the crappest bit of the entire film.

Goddamit.
 
 
Spaniel
20:20 / 17.03.06
Sorry, Flowers, I hope you know I didn't mean it like that.
I'm genuinely glad you liked it, 'cause I really want to like it, and you're one of the people around here who's opinion I actually value.

I should stress that I'm not hoping for V on screen, just an entertaining movie that doesn't trample all over the original text.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
22:17 / 17.03.06
Well, I went along tonight expecting the worst after some of the reviews I've read.

I was almost squirming through the first half, it was like there was no structure, no story, just lots of characters randomly crossing paths. There was some terrible dialogue, dodgy accents, and just bits that didn't make an awful lot of sense.

However, the tone changed as soon as Evey was captured. Everything pulled together. Valerie's story was great. The ending may not have been exactly the same as the comic, but it had its own charm, and I particularly liked the slightly abstract way in which it was told. Rea's summation of events was a nice way of getting lots of exposition across. I understand Stephen Fry's characters purpose in the plot, but thought it could have been done better. I guess his being there suggested there were lots of oppressed rebels waiting for some sort of leader to enable them to act, or something.

All in all, not a bad film, albeit one with some awful clunky moments. Probably worth seeing though.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
05:26 / 18.03.06
hmm...well, for my part, it's not...terrible. I was expecting a lot more, though, based on the geek reviews i've been reading.

my biggest problem with it is they just make all of their messages so fucking obvious. it's all these big headline GAYS ARE TEH BAD and GOVERNMENT IS MANIPULATING EVERYONE and U.S. AUDIENCES TAKE HEED LEST THIS BEFALL YOU!!

Which, as messages go, is a not bad to get across at the moment. I just wish there had been a bit more of an adult with some poetry in their soul writing this.

Knife-time: Eh...didn't mind the slow-mo...but wtf with the stupid fake contrails?

Evey-in-Prison was perhaps the most shining moment of Alan Moore in Cinema to date. It was basically word for word from the book and done really quite lovingly and well.

However, I was really disappointed that they changed V's TV station monologue. The original is much more entertaining and makes it's point in a much more interesting way. This version...honestly, I can't remember what he was saying.

V in love...yeah, damn it. That was quite weak of them to do. I guess they never really delved into the 'Every think V is daddy' aspect, though, so it didn't ruin that movie-wise. It does have absolutely now impact on the story.

I was surprised at not being completely appalled by the "V is Everybody!" scene as I was expecting. However, the shootout scene with McCreedy and execution of the Chancellor was pretty stupid. I much preferred the original's psychedelic confrontation between V and FInch. Oh well.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
05:36 / 18.03.06
Well, the book wasn't a monument to subtlety either. The reference to spinning was a modern insertion, I'm not sure whether those who aren't supersexy enlightened Matrix Jedi like us consider the biases in their news. I know I don't enough.

I also didn't see V and Evey as romantic love, more parent/child if anything.
 
 
Tamayyurt
15:00 / 18.03.06
I just saw this and I really enjoyed it. The start was choppy but it eventually gelled and the second half was great. Maybe it's cause I went in there with low expectations but I liked it.
 
 
TeN
15:57 / 18.03.06
"my biggest problem with it is they just make all of their messages so fucking obvious. it's all these big headline GAYS ARE TEH BAD and GOVERNMENT IS MANIPULATING EVERYONE and U.S. AUDIENCES TAKE HEED LEST THIS BEFALL YOU!!"

my feelings exactly
I don't go see movies because I want someone's message dipped in current events references and shoved down my throat with a battering ram.
I really wish they had tried to make something intellectually stimulating. something that raises questions instead of answering them. this came off more as propoganda.

still, I haven't read the comic, and I still want to, partially to see how much butchering the Wachowskis actually did.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:35 / 18.03.06
TeN, I will pay money to see anything shoved down your throat with a battering ram.

What did you expect in a film with a fascist/authoritarian government? A load of Georgian gentlemen saying "Well, honestly, the area's really started going downhill since they let the pooftahs in"?
 
 
Blake Head
19:53 / 18.03.06
From my humble, UK-based point of view, I thought it was AWFUL: misjudged in almost every concievable way.

After hearing conflicting things about what worked (from the Alan Moore bits to none of it) I actually went in without high expectations that it would be great or would follow the comic. One scene worked. Stephen Fry was alright. For the rest of it I felt like taking a claw hammer to my own face to distract from the cinematic carnage in front of me. The Valerie scene, as an example, worked very well, and was then let down immediately by the characters' seemingly complete lack of understanding of its point. I didn't find V sympathetic at all. Misjudged, hokey, badly written... a potentially satirical reading of the ambiguous nature of his vendetta seems more to come out of the directors' confusion than any intent. The dialogue was apalling, the "action" scenes were banal, predictable and idiotic, and I'm usually a sucker for vaguely flashy martial arts stuff. It was just tiresome. I was less interested in the actual politics than the crudeness of their delivery, in fact, the crudeness of the entire film was overwhelming. It doesn't really matter how close it was to the comic, whether its source material was subtle or not, as a piece of cinema, as a narrative, it was garbled and nonsensensical. Nothing that they added or changed made the story better, and the contemporary political critique was so jarring and obvious as to be irrelevant. I liked this less than Equilibrium. I liked this less than League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. That's how bad it was.

Apologies, this would maybe be more considered but I've just seen it and enjoyed almost nothing of this offensively stupid film and regret paying money to do so. Oh, and V has a Blake hanging up in his lair - what a waste.
 
 
TeN
20:44 / 18.03.06
"TeN, I will pay money to see anything shoved down your throat with a battering ram."
wtf? why the hate?
 
 
cusm
22:27 / 18.03.06
Once upon a time I would find any excuse to rail against movie adaptations of my favorite books or comics, for any difference from the original no matter how small was completely unacceptable and how dare they mar my perfect and eternally static first impression of the work. Then I realized that stories can change, and should change, evolving in time and presenting their ideas in newer formats to reach new audiences and as long as the spirit of the thing is still there, and the results are cool, I'm ok with it.

This is a rewrite and adaptation of V. It is not a panel for panel translation like Sin City. As a big fan of the original, I think a lot of improvements were made in the film. The delivery is not as dry, V is more sympathetic for the humanity added to him (which I feel is important to foil against the monster he has become to give him depth), and it was totally necessary to explain the 5th of November to an American audience cause we've never learned a bit of it in our histories. The end effect was very cool. The message got across, and was even updated a bit to current events.

Most importantly, the rain/fire scene on the roof was tremendously well done and very moving, and the final explosion was just tremendous dramaticly. Those two moments in the film were absolutely stunning. The rest was not terribly memorable, but I'd watch it again for those two bits. The Thousand V March was a nice addition, adding greately to the drama of the finale.

The message was tweaked a bit, though. More freedom fighting and less anarchy. I did miss V's testimony on the virtues if Anarchy, but not much. It wasn't needed here, the focus redirected towards a people not tolerating fascism than the elimination of government entirely.

I also got to watch it on opening night on St Patrick's day, which must have been intentional. I mean, really. Lets open a film about blowing up the British Parliment on an Irish holiday. Brilliant.

Anyway, movie!=book, but still good on its own.

And I really liked this one line: "A revolution without dancing is not a revolution worth having" - which probably says a lot about me.
 
 
Blake Head
00:04 / 19.03.06
Having read through the thread again I’ve maybe just restated feelings from some of the concerned reactions previewed earlier. Apologies again for the clunky post above, especially to those making more substantial posts on the difference between the film and its source. In my defence, I’d subjected myself to the film without any prior knowledge beyond the trailers, and expected at least an entertaining if imperfect product, which at least some people seem to have found it to be, so the more focused experience of viewing this ugly, bleeding abortion of a film has temporarily left me in a state of shock and able to do little more than offer a list of negative attributes. The potentially interesting divergences on its ideological positioning should perhaps not immediately obfuscate how a film almost entirely lacking in charm, intelligence or emotional engagement was so absolutely dire as a piece of narrative art. But there I go again being negative. My reaction of sheer visceral horror at its dramatic qualities should not in anyway excuse ponderous writing on my part, so I will desist from making any further comment until I feel less negative, if and when that may be.
 
 
Mark Parsons
02:21 / 19.03.06
I resisted all urges to look forward to this movie. Good word of mouth. So what? William Gibson loved it? Maybe he's a closet wanker.

I LOVED the movie. Cried a few times (manly, silent tears, of course). This is the best mainstream adaptation possible, I think. And yes, mainstream movies do tend to spoonfeed audiences: get over it or ignore it and carry on.

And I also dreaded the Army of V scenes, but in the end, they make perfect sense. Especially visually and emotionally. It's a crucial element of the adaptation. King Mob speaks!

The Anarchy vs Facism/Democracy vs Facism debate seems to feature lots of posturing, IMO. Who says at the end of the book AND/OR the movie whether the people accept anarchy as a form of organization? Both endings are open. Granted the movie does not expressly mention anarchism, but the chancellor has a bullet in his head, his circle is smashed, the HoP are blown to kingdom come in celebratory fashion, and the army lays down its arms. Hardly an endorsement of government, is it?
 
 
Mark Parsons
02:38 / 19.03.06
I think the posts suggesting that V is "in love with" Evey are off base if they are suggesting romatic love. Her humanity, bravery, loyalty touch him. He feels love for her and she him. But IMO, the movie makes it fairly clear that V is gay.

Also, what's all the bitching about "eggy in a basket?" Fry's character says the words; maybe it's some kind of family thing for him, a silly childhood nickname?
 
 
TeN
03:51 / 19.03.06
cusm - that quote is actually from Emma Goldman, the famous anarchist, and V misquoted it. the actual quote is "If I can't dance, it's not my revolution."
 
 
Benny the Ball
04:18 / 19.03.06
But the chancellor dies in secret, underground, killed by a nasty member of the government, not by a member of the oppressed peoples in full view - there is no impact for the people of england in playing it this way.
 
 
Mark Parsons
04:39 / 19.03.06
I get yr point, but a bullet is a bullet, dead is dead. Presumably, it'll all come out in the end, like Hitler in his bunker...
 
 
Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown
05:48 / 19.03.06
My review here on my blog.

I have some other thoughts, though, as my bain has been percolating over the last 8 hours.

I was dissapointed with the removal of key dialogue from V in which he warns that while "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" may bring about the Land of Do-As-You-Please, in reality freedom and anarchy must be tempered with responsibility to prevent abject chaos, which I always felt was part of what he was trying to teach Evey. Rebellion against the government isn't enough, because once the old order has been torn down something must rise up to replace it...otherwise you'll just plunge things into the sort of chaos from whcih the old order arose in the first place.

I didn't really get a loving vibe from V, but I DID get the sense that his plans weren't as perfect as they were in the comic. In Moore's book, V had everything planned out, up to and including his own death. He seemed like an expert with psychology in addition to the weird "personal charisma" that Dr. Delia talks about him developing because of the treatments.

In the film he seems more like Batman from "Batman Begins": a guy in a funny mask and costume with a plan...but not superhuman. Moore's V WAS superhuman...or more to the point I think he was a paragon of what humans could be. His freedom was external as well as internal, he had spent years training his body, in addition to what the drugs did to him at Larkhill, and because he had no fear and no uncertainty was basically able to just go and do things that most people wouldn't because of self preservation instincts.

Then again, V in the comics WAS his ideal made manifest. He was almost a zeitgeist of revolution, unable to be stopped and unable to die until his job was done. And when it was done, for him at least, he passed the mantle on to Evey, his protege and metaphorical daughter, to be the next generation; not the revolutionary warrior, but the revolutionary architect and protector, helping people build something new from the chaos of the old order.

Really, though, there are three things I really missed that they took out:
1) The destruction of Parliament first, with the Old Bailey being destroyed after V had had his "conversation" with Lady Justice about her dalliances and affairs with Fascism
2) V's original broadcast. It was funny, and it really fit the character. The movie's broadcast seemed more like typical anarchist stuff. It was decent, and served the point, but it didn't quite capture that unique sort of insanity that so defines V in my mind.
3) Evey didn't take up the mantle as V at the end. That really gauled me. She didn't LEARN anything from V about standing up, or about the true meaning of freedom. She learned how to hide, and how to train the next big-strong-man that came upon her of how to go about doing the job that her last big-strong-man had done. At least that's kind of how it seemed to me.

There are other things I didn't like about it, but I'm tired and I prefer to keep lists down to 3 if I can.

What I DID like, however:
1) The scene with Valerie. Beautifully done.
2) I guess it was Stephen Fry's character, the talk show host, and the broadcast that got him killed. I was laughing at that, to be honest.
3) The image of V wearing a flower-printed apron and oven mitts while also wearing all black and his mask. Just...I dunno. Not at all fitting with Moore's V, but still an amusing image.

Overall, I liked the movie. It wasn't the book. There's no way to argue that. It wasn't a faithful adaptation like Sin City, but it also wasn't a complete mutilation of the character like Constantine. It stands on its own well, though is diminished when compared to Moore's utterly superior book.

V for Vendetta (graphic novel) will always remain among my favourites. V for Vendetta (film) is decent, but not among my favourites of all time. But I'll probably buy it when it comes out on DVD. Better than the other new movie I saw this month (Ultraviolet).
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
08:21 / 19.03.06
TeN "TeN, I will pay money to see anything shoved down your throat with a battering ram."
wtf? why the hate?


Well, if you could perhaps explain what you meant by
I don't go see movies because I want someone's message dipped in current events references and shoved down my throat with a battering ram.

then I'll apologise if I misunderstood you.

Blake Head The Valerie scene, as an example, worked very well, and was then let down immediately by the characters' seemingly complete lack of understanding of its point.

I wouldn't agree that they didn't understand it's point, it's just that prior to that story we have something very similar happen with Deitrich, even though he's immediately punished for satirising the Government there is the fact that he's also gay.

I was less interested in the actual politics than the crudeness of their delivery,

I have to say this again. The source graphic novel was also less subtle than a bag of hammers.

furioso King Mob speaks!

Technically most of King Mob must surely get killed when the Houses of Parliament explode in front of them. Maybe V was an anarchist after all?

But IMO, the movie makes it fairly clear that V is gay.

How so?

Benny the Ball But the chancellor dies in secret, underground, killed by a nasty member of the government, not by a member of the oppressed peoples in full view - there is no impact for the people of england in playing it this way.

Hmmm, yes, interesting point that, as that was presumably the explicit deal he made with Creedy, "you bring him here, you kill him, you can take over". I can remember for sure but I think he gives Sutler a rose doesn't he? So this is his personal revenge thing and not the wider scheme of raising the populus against the Government. Perhaps he lets his personal need for revenge win out over his wider aims of freedom for everyone?

Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown [The film V was ]not superhuman. Moore's V WAS superhuman

Actually, I think you've got that the wrong way round. In the book the Larkhill treatment only brings around psychological changes that make V 'differently sane'. In the film they have physiological changes that make him a better fighter, he's not a Matrix Warrior by any stretch but he's better than most.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:39 / 19.03.06
cusm - that quote is actually from Emma Goldman, the famous anarchist, and V misquoted it. the actual quote is "If I can't dance, it's not my revolution."

"If I can't dance, I don't want your revolution" is the most common citation. However, I was there and what she actually said was "If I can't dance, I don't want your Dance Dance Revolution".
 
 
TeN
17:00 / 19.03.06
lol @ Haus

"Well, if you could perhaps explain what you meant by..."
What I meant was that the entire time I watched the movie I felt as if the Wachowskis were trying waaaaaaay too hard to create parallels to current events and the Bush administration. In doing so they came off as preachy and didactic, and the entire film was made transparent - an over the top, paranoid conspiracy theory screaming at the top of its lungs, "WATCH OUT AMERICA, THIS IS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO YOU!" There was very little ambiguity, very little you were left to think about after the film was over, everything was neatly tied up and spoonfed to you. It didn't just preach to the choir, it spit on everyone else. If the movie was intended to make people think about the possible consequences of the current political climate, it failed miserably by A) being far fetched and unbelievable in its portrayal of how the dystopia of V's world came to be, and B) drawing so many comparisons to current events, and allowing so little room for interpretation, that it completely turned off whoever it might be intending to convert.
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
17:32 / 19.03.06
If the movie was intended to make people think about the possible consequences of the current political climate, it failed miserably by A) being far fetched and unbelievable in its portrayal of how the dystopia of V's world came to be, and B) drawing so many comparisons to current events,

isn't that a little oxymoronic? Can something be far fetched while drawing comparisons?
 
 
Benny the Ball
19:44 / 19.03.06
Bound to be spoilers;

What I didn't like;
1. The got the Leader so wrong - making him an Orwellian shouty bad guy was such a waste on what was a brilliantly fleshed out character. It also undermined any sense of threat from him.
2. The execution of the leader - as I said above, it makes less of the overall sense of uprising against the state to have it take place out of the public eye, and not by a member of the public that he oppresses.
3. The so called oppressive state didn't really seem all that bad - people were alowed opinions, they spent most of the time watching television and drinking with their perfect extensions of 2.4 families, and being occasionally watched, that it wasn't that much different than the world is now. If this was intentional (and I don't think it was) it didn't really work.
4. The opening hour or so was badly put together - Portman's voice over was weak and highlighted that she was putting on an accent, too much was happening to make you interested, the BTN was just bad.
5. The bishop lost all of his sense of genuine creepiness and was comical, plus to have Evey act that way, and for V to care was badly done.
6. Making Evey street smart and V a bit childlike undermined their relationship and took away from the Valerie moment.

What I liked;
1. I genuinely liked knife time - trails and all. It gave an impression, that was lacking before, of exactly how dangerous V was, how much faster, stronger and lethal he was than all of those men.
2. Finch was brilliantly done - I could have watched the whole thing from his point of view and it would have been a better movie.
3. Those too few moments that were direct lifts from the comic - just highlighted how much stronger a script Moore had written than the Wachowski's. V and the doctor's talk was great "i did it ten minutes ago".
4. Parliment blowing up was beautifully done.

What I'd wish they'd included;
1. The moment between V and the doctor where she asks to see his face and tells him that he is beautiful was one of my favouirte moments in the original, and I was a little bit sad that they didn't include it.
2. The moment on the train with V and Prothero. It highlighted how deadly V was, getting onto a moving train and killing his guards in the darkness and in total silence. For the most part V was just a bit lucky that the police were stupid, and that Evey helped him, and then not really there.
3. His first lines when he meets the bishop from Sympathy for the devil.
4. The leader from the comic.

Oh and the Benny Hill theme - why?
 
  

Page: 1 ... 1011121314(15)1617181920... 22

 
  
Add Your Reply