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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

V For Vendetta (PICS)

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Mister Six, whom all the girls

14:33 / 28.03.06

We do get the lines in Valerie's letter saying that to be different is to be bad... or words to that effect.

Yes, the visuals are lacking in specifics but I think the message that it's a straight white God-fearing man's world is pretty clear.

14:47 / 28.03.06

In the book the public are dumb animals staring at the TV... in the film nobody buys the bullshit propaganda.

We don't focus on the public in the book but the suggestion is that people are anything but sheeple. That's the whole point - that people are capable of free thought, of dissent, of being creative is central to V's (anarchist) thinking.

miss wonderstarr

14:57 / 28.03.06

Unfortunately, the actual audience in the cinema consisted of dumb-faced animals. This is what filled me with a deep sadness.

This seems a problematic attitude to me. You seem to be saying that you alone of all the cinema audience could intelligently read the film's "message", and that everyone else just sat gawping stupidly, perhaps reading some other meaning from the film or just enjoying the knife fights.

Why do you call them animals? What's this based on, you glanced around and saw someone who looked dumb or had their mouth open, or was staring at the screen eating a Westlers hotdog? I'm sure I look pretty dumb sometimes when I'm watching a film, but that's not really a valid basis for generalisation. I don't think clever-self/stupid-other divisions are usually accurate or helpful.

15:26 / 28.03.06

>>>You seem to be saying that you alone of all the cinema audience could intelligently read the film's "message", and that everyone else just sat gawping stupidly, perhaps reading some other meaning from the film or just enjoying the knife fights.<<<

Frankly, from conversations I've overheard about the movie, or having a quick glance at the message boards on the film website or the V For Vendetta Myspace page (!), it's not an entirely unfounded suggestion.

I WAS JUST LIKE NOO!!! DONT' DIE OMFG!!~@!@!!
-posted on the above-mentioned Myspace discussion board

Mister Six, whom all the girls

15:28 / 28.03.06

I posted my experience and for some reason it's being argued??

This is far off-subject.

Why has my attitude toward the social climate of my suburban setting suddenly become the center of attention?

Stick to the movie. If anyone really cares about my personal feelings enough, just send me a PM. I'll do my best to discuss it if you really want to.

I'm really getting tired of threads getting derailed. My feelings on the society I live in is hardly worth having this discussion in a movie thread.

15:43 / 28.03.06

there are black and asian people in the scene at the end - lots of dead characters in there. by that point the film's just a swirl, in fact i think it probably goes that way after the domino sequence, but unlike the bride of frankenstein, say, the swirl isn't halted by a handy lever, instead the crowd takes its masks off and the swirl asserts itself all over the film's final reality.

the penn'orth: great daft little movie, riffing pleasantly on vincent price and universal horror movies. dodgy score, great soundtrack. dodgy speeches, but good dialogue. one-note baddies, but heroic baddy-bleeding at the end. pointless little diversions in the script, but also cool little details like the bit in stephen fry's tv show. the good (or 'likeable') far outweighs the bad in there all told.

18:18 / 28.03.06

>>>You seem to be saying that you alone of all the cinema audience could intelligently read the film's "message", and that everyone else just sat gawping stupidly, perhaps reading some other meaning from the film or just enjoying the knife fights.<<<

Frankly, from conversations I've overheard about the movie, or having a quick glance at the message boards on the film website or the V For Vendetta Myspace page (!), it's not an entirely unfounded suggestion.

I have a friend who didn't like the movie because, "There was too much talking and not enough action." When I suggested that the talking was the point of the movie and that maybe he was missing out on some of the themes, he responded with, "All V did was say the same thing over again. Revolt against the government, blah blah blah." Remembering that he didn't like Sin City either, I told him that he doesn't know shit about movies.

18:30 / 28.03.06

Is your friend 8?

19:08 / 28.03.06

Why has my attitude toward the social climate of my suburban setting suddenly become the center of attention?

Because it's quite strong and misanthropic I suspect. I felt you were a few sentences away from calling them Humatons or something there. Interesting as I'd imagine that's how the government felt about the public in V4V.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

19:43 / 28.03.06

The Stephen Fry routine was so spot on. If it was in the book I forgot a LOT apparently, but never mind. Having John Hurt dress up as an imitation of the Chancelor with pancake-style make-up and all only to get wrapped up in a Benny Hill chase and eventual 'Sam Peckinpah-like' shoot-out was just great. It also reminded me how much I missed seeing Fry as an actor.

The routine was brilliant because it showed how far society had gone. Fry's character felt that he was untouchable since he brought in high ratings while he finally did end up getting the boot. And I'm betting the audience was not surprised by that outcome.

A former teacher of mine wrote a killer book 'Slapstick' about violence in American humor. This reminded me of that. The mirroring of the double shoot-out and audience laughter and Fry's bloody face 'Not so funny now' should have made Moore happy as an author. It felt like an Alan Moore moment.

20:24 / 28.03.06

So...maybe I'm being stupid here...but is it the film's contention that the non-white, non-christian, non-straight population of the UK numbers somewhere in the neighrborhood of 80-100,000?

20:48 / 28.03.06

I think they meant that the virus killed 80-100,000 people (white, black, gay or straight), and in the ensuing panic Norsefire gained control and THEN carted all those people off to the camps.

miss wonderstarr

21:03 / 28.03.06

I posted my experience and for some reason it's being argued??

Your experience cannot have been that everyone in the audience but you was a "dumb-faced animal". That was your impression, but as I've suggested, it seems unlikely to have been based on anything but your (maybe misplaced) feelings of superiority over other people who see blockbuster films in your area.

I don't doubt there's anecdotal evidence of people coming out with responses to V that, to us as (mostly) comic book and film fans familiar with Alan Moore, may seem stupidly to miss the point. To imagine that everyone but oneself in the cinema not just didn't get it but is a dumb animal seems... I don't know, extreme, almost certainly inaccurate, and obviously insulting to anyone who goes to see films but doesn't seem to share your interpretation of them, at least based on your glance around the cinema at the time.

I'm glad that one person sees what I mean, and also identifies why this point is in fact relevant to V for Vendetta. Dismissing other people as dumb animals is the first stage in the kind of social-improvement regime that this film portrays in all its horrors.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

23:08 / 28.03.06

Apparently in the novelisation (what a completely bizarre thing to novelise a movie based on a comic), it is explained in greater detail the events that lead to the world we see in the movie. A friend of mine just explained some of the details.

It involved some kind of attack on Chicago that lead to an increased war on terrorism that spread to China. America developed a biological weapon that killed only the Chinese. This outrages the rest Eurpoe (my friend was unclear on this) leaving America isolated and at war with itself. This leads to the biological warfare experiments in the movie.

Not that I put much stock in the novelisation... just treat it as one of those 'someone else read it so you don't have to' situations.

00:07 / 29.03.06

Your experience cannot have been that everyone in the audience but you was a "dumb-faced animal". That was your impression, but as I've suggested, it seems unlikely to have been based on anything but your (maybe misplaced) feelings of superiority over other people who see blockbuster films in your area.

miss wonderstarr, with all due respect I think you are wrong. I live in Boston so I can tell you that in suburban IMAX theaters farm animals are admitted for a reduced price. I admit it sounds a bit coincidental that everyone in attendance but M. Six, on the day in question, was non-human, but maybe there was some kind of field trip happening that afternoon? Who knows. I do think that he might want to reconsider his characterization of cows and the like as "dumb-faced," however. Though they don't speak in the human sense, can we not consider bovine vocalizations a form of speech or communication? Something to think about.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

00:16 / 29.03.06

I'm laughing, but you're right. I gave animals a bad rep. and it was at a Jordan's Furniture iMax which if you're living in Boston... 'nuff said. And hail to a fellow Bostonian.

I think I should drop the whole animal analogy and just call them open anuses.

In any any case, it has no place here, I'm ignoring her posts since I asked her to PM me if she wanted to talk about it.

I'd prefer to drop it and continue talking about the movie... like I already asked.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

04:48 / 29.03.06

Let's go back to taking the mickey out of Furioso over those 'gay' remarks, that was fun...

--

05:00 / 29.03.06

I thought it was quite good... A lot of things were changed from the comic, some better, some worse (I re-read the comic recently and found it bloated in places... a lot of it's characters and sub-plots seemed to be a bit much). Yeah, they Hollywoodized it to some degree, but thankfully those moments are pretty short (like the emo mirror-smashing scene) so they don't take away from the picture too much. Visually, it was quite impressive. Oh yeah, Stephen Rea rocks.

ONLY NICE THINGS

05:16 / 29.03.06

My heart sank to record lows as I looked at a sold out crowd of 350 mostly white middle class suburbanities... and realized that the message was lost on them.

How exactly did you realise that, Mister Six? Did you ask? Or were those suburbanites, all full of revolutionary fervour, thinking to themselves, "I really want to smash the state now - shame the message was lost on that odd-looking fellow in the middle row with the breathing problems". For that matter, what exactly makes you sure that you understood what the message was? Did the Wachowskis lean over and whisper it into your ear as you slept? What would yousay was the right way to understand the message of V for Vendetta? Is there any room for polyvalent readings? Or should those who get it so utterly wrong perhaps be culled, like the cattle they are?

miss wonderstarr

06:06 / 29.03.06

In any any case, it has no place here, I'm ignoring her posts since I asked her to PM me if she wanted to talk about it.

For the benefit of everyone who doesn't now have me on ignore, the reason I continued to discuss this in the thread rather than PM is because (i) I thought it was strikingly relevant to the film's themes (as I understood them) of othering and dehumanising "inferior" social groups and (ii) I wanted others reading this thread, not just Mister Six, to know why I'd objected to his comment.

I feel I've explained what I meant now, and again I'm glad that at least one other person seems to see my point, so I will try not to pursue this line further on this thread. Sorry for any disruption.

Regrettable Juvenilia

07:18 / 29.03.06

No need to apologise. Mister Six is doing that wonderful "objecting to my woeful opinions is thread-rot!" thing we all know so well - other classic examples include the PsionicNurse "never mind the Gypsy-hate, feel the comics discussion!" controversy and yada yada yada. No doubt if this was raised in another thread he would call it passive-aggressive or a big fuss about nothing or blahzee blah blah blah.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

10:47 / 29.03.06

No, thread rot is not contributing to the discussion... or baiting me for an argument as Haus is which is his MO. I've not ignored a single comment disputing what I've said, just pointed out that this is not the placve, PM me, etc. The ignore button is there for a reason.

In any case, if this thread can be rescued for the few that actually want to talk about the movie...

I'm trying to remember what kind of role Stephen Rea's character played in the comic. In the film he's definitely another malcontent but in the book wasn't he more of a outsider in a film noir sense?

And what other films is he known for? He's one of those great actors that has been 'doing the work' all these years without notice it seems. He was in 'the Crying Game, yes?' But also the no fun Pret a Porter... don't ask how I know that.

The speech in the detectives office that not so much pointed the blame at the government but more importantly said that it was far too terrifying to implicate the forces that be was nicely done. It added to the intelligence of the film and its message rather than hammering you over the head with it. The old man in the garden scvene was a little too 'JFK' for me but I forgive so much in this film for its successes.

I'd be interested in hearing more from those who didn't like the movie (fair enough) to see if they think the message was hamfisted.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:22 / 29.03.06

Ah - so you get to send me threatening private messages but I'm not allowed to respond here, even though you have decided to continue to insult me in=thread? Talking about anything but the film is threadrot, and yet you started this by talking about the audience in Boston, none of whom anyone else here who has watched the film encountered? Forgive me. I knew you were an idiot. I had no idea you were a fucking idiot.

More on Mister Six's view of t3h HUMATONS can be found here and here.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

13:25 / 29.03.06

Those threads have nothing to do with me.

I tried to be polite, was not threatening in my PM, and asked that if you had objection to take it to the policy thread. See you there. What a grand time it will be.

13:33 / 29.03.06

thank fuck, eighteen boring fucking pages of debate related more or less to the thread title, and only now do the salamis go onto the table - i say about time too, right barbelith?

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:35 / 29.03.06

V for Viener competition!

I think you get either to PM me asking me not to post further in this thread about your sheeple fantasies, Sixy, or you get to continue the ad hominem attacks in this thread, not both. That's hypocrisy. See you in Policy.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

14:56 / 29.03.06

So just forget I said anything about my viewing and move on.

It's impossible for me to know what anyone thought about the movie and bringing it up is a waste of time.

Sorry, no sausage war.

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:24 / 29.03.06

It's impossible for me to know what anyone thought about the movie and bringing it up is a waste of time.

Very good. Now please apologise to me, G for Gundetta and Miss Wonderstarr for insulting us when we tried to deal with your threadrot, and to everyone else for rotting the thread, and we'll say no more about it.

15:47 / 29.03.06

Take it outside of the thread, guys.

--

01:14 / 01.04.06

Yeah, I saw the film a second time tonight and there are definetly black/asian people in the crowd at the end.

11:13 / 01.04.06

We (Mrs. Woodsurfer and I) saw it a couple of weeks ago on the strength of our enjoyment of other Alan Moore stories. It rocked us deeply. There are many, many thread of similarity between our present government and the fascist regime depicted in the movie. I'm certain that the current rulers of the U.S. would seize on a disaster of the scale of the "St. Mary's" virus to clamp down martial law and never let up. We came out of the film both sobered and hopeful -- even in the depths, the human spirit will rise to overthrow the conquerors. Sometimes it takes a while but we will not be held down forever.

Shortly after seeing the movie, I read the graphic novel and found it to be much, much better than the movie on so many levels. I'm very glad I didn't read it before-hand.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:16 / 01.04.06

WRT V's sexuality... not read the comic in a while, but do we ever learn why he was in Larkhill? I seem to remember not.

Jawsus-son Starship

11:32 / 01.04.06

In the comic book, I thought it was becuase he was black. Not sure why, but I thought V was a minority - hence the gloves and mask.

In the film - political dissident? gay? who knows.

18:20 / 01.04.06

(In the book) The gloves and the mask are worn because V is an idea and not a man. It's about symbolism.

As to whether the man beneath the mask is black, for some reason I think he is.

Jawsus-son Starship

19:29 / 01.04.06

ok, I've just looked through the book, and I guess the reason for thinking V may be black is due to the nature of his hair. When V is leaving Larkhill, the sillouette of his hair has a close cut, yet curly quality to it, which I associate with a black man's hair. I guess this is why I think V's black. Though my mate has just suggested that the same hair cut could be sterotypically jewish, or just a guy with curly hair.

As Jewish/Black men would be on the list of people the Party would be looking to place into camps, there may be some truth in this, or I may just be over reaching.

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