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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

V For Vendetta (PICS)

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20:42 / 02.04.06

In the film - political dissident? gay? who knows.

He's anyone. Anyone can be Verticus Vughes!

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

14:58 / 03.04.06

I don't understand how you could think he was black, he doesn't listen to rap or drive a car with rims worth more than a human life.

(this post is, of course, a sarcastic dig at the earlier evidence presented for V's gayness, don't hit me)

Our Lady Has Left the Building

17:09 / 03.04.06

Well, in the book I always assumed that V was Evey's Dad, so he was imprisoned for being a political dissident.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

20:12 / 03.04.06

That was what I came away with flowers. I am glad someone else felt the same way.

Jawsus-son Starship

20:44 / 03.04.06

Evey's dad does have that haircout too.

22:02 / 03.04.06

What of the scene where V tells Evey he's not her father, and then the other one at the end when Evey unmasks the dead V and first imagines her father's face, before shaking it off and saying "No, I know you're not my father, I'm past that now."

22:12 / 03.04.06

I thought the whole torture/interigation section a complete waste of time and totally unnecessary. If you were to cut this section out of the film it would change nothing. The gay rights issue seemed forced to me. You guys need to fill me in on this. Was that angle in the Alan Moore novel or did the cross-dressing screenwriter add this on his own? My friend that I saw this film with fell asleep during the"Evey in prison " section. His comment was and I qoute. "Hey I like slow motion lesbian stuff as much as the next guy but come on...get on with it."

Quoted from another message board.

Shiver.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

06:30 / 04.04.06

A few funny posters.

Cameron, that sequence is sequential, it's not so much Evey going through who it could genuinely be, more Evey going through and discarding all the elements of her former life, doesn't she also think it's the guy she stays with in the middle of the book and then finally herself? (Must dig out the book) They don't represent the actual people, they represent elements of herself that she's discarding (a bit like that story of the Queen who goes down to the Underworld, discarding her clothes along the way) so that she can become the next V.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

09:52 / 04.04.06

Also, V isn't her father now, but used to be her father, back when he wasn't a raving anarchist nutter.

10:54 / 04.04.06

I...don't think Moore intended V to be her father.

Okay, how about this for evidence - in the journal flashback Dr Surridge says that V's face is extraordinarily ugly. We see Mr. Hammond a couple of times and, dodgy haircut aside, he ain't ugly.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

12:01 / 04.04.06

But the experiments that are performed on V causes deformity and abnormal growths, so he would look different to how he looked before being taken away...

12:41 / 04.04.06

Hmm, yes I suppose.

I still don't think Moore intended it though.

14:04 / 04.04.06

I still don't think Moore intended it though.

Agreed. The point Moore's making in the book, and the point they try and make in the film is that it really doesn't matter who's under the mask. V isn't Evey's father, or the actress in Room 4.

The man in Room 5 is intentionally left anonymous. Whilst I agree that you can argue it's Evey's Dad, there's very little evidence to suggest it in either book or film beyond the few shots of V in Room 5 (looks to be male and caucasian, but hard to tell for sure).

Remember that the diary was left intentionally by V. Finch suggests that the truth may never be known because V could well have written it himself.

The person behind the mask is the walking embodiment of the faceless victims of the opressive governments throughout Human history.

14:38 / 04.04.06

I thought Evey's torture/interigation section was one of the main themes of the film, at the very begining of the film shes going on about how she owes V everything for setting her free. Its like the whole thing between Jack Frost and Tom O'Bedlam in the Invisibles. Theres no way it could have been cut out.

15:27 / 04.04.06

In his article reprinted in the TPB, doesn’t Moore say that V “isn’t Evey’s father, Whistler’s Mother, or Charley’s Aunt” (or words to that effect)?

Granted, it’s overdone for effect, but the letter columns of Warrior during the series’ original run frequently featured the ‘it’s her Dad’ thing, so it’s not entirely surprising that both in and out of the story, it was stated that he isn’t, in both a serious and a more lighthearted way.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

18:01 / 04.04.06

My very quick review:

O for Okay.

Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown

18:21 / 04.04.06

Codename "V" recently hijacked the campus radio stated and exhorted students to throw down the opressive reigns of our One-Party System (the Student Administrative Council) at the University of Toronto.

He went on to vocalize his vexing vitriole until he ran out of alliterative words and ended with "umm...this is really hard...".

He further told students to come watch him blow up the SAC offices on the "5th of Apraall" at midnight. And, in the good spirit of keeping said opressive student government from finding out the identity of those present ("Students should not be afraid of their student governments, student government should be afraid of their students"), he provided these stunning cut-out masks on the cover of "The Varsity":

To be honest, the mask really brings out my eyes, though it looks more comical than creepy (something about the bending...).

Vox Varsity, vox fido. The Voice of the Varsity is the Voice of a Dog.

(This was the Varsity's April Fool's issue. It was, actually, quite hilarious...and I got to wear the mask and quote incessently from the article in my rasping V-oice. I'm gonna scan the cover of the paper in this weekend, though, it was a hoot.)

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

21:56 / 04.04.06

I agree with Cameron and Evil- apart from anything else, had I interpreted it as "oh, look, it was her Dad all along" I'd have thought it was a really crap, cheesy ending. Not to mention the dodgy "Daddy knows best" patriarchal overtones it would have had...

--

01:07 / 05.04.06

Something I never thought I'd see... "V for Vendetta", the comic, on the Barnes & Noble bestseller list. With 20% off stickers. Right under "A Million Little Pieces". A few months ago, we only had one copy, now we're having trouble keeping them in stock!

07:47 / 05.04.06

The film did some good then.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

10:36 / 05.04.06

I don't think V was Evey's Dad in the film, but it was a definite vibe I got from the book, in the same way that Evey becomes V at the end and is no longer Evey, so Evey's Dad becomes V and so is no longer Evey's Dad but V instead. The trauma of the experiments changes him in the same way as his torture of Evey changes her. So yes, Moore didn't lie. V is not Evey's father. But he used to be. Anyway, I'm done now.

10:58 / 05.04.06

Without reading 18 pages of this thread, I loved the film, especially the spectacle aspects, especially the SOUND of it. Hated the Wachowsky-ness of it (blade time) and the deviation from the book (of course), loved Hugo, loved Portman, loved Fry, found the film surprisingly moving and unexpectedly good.
Now going to read Moore's criticism more closely.

15:02 / 05.04.06

... I particularly liked John Hurt playing the Big Brother style leader, counterpointing his 1984 performance. Rather like Gordon Lui playing Pai Mei in Kill Bill 2.

The Natural Way

18:19 / 05.04.06

Flowers sometimes an V is not Evey's Father is just a V is not Evey's Father. You might want to except the fact that there's absolutely no evidence for this in the book or the interviews - there's just your vibe.

18:29 / 05.04.06

... I particularly liked John Hurt playing the Big Brother style leader, counterpointing his 1984 performance.

I had to go out and rent 1984 again, just because V gave me such an itch to see Hurt in a better dystopian performance.

15:02 / 06.04.06

Alien was a more dystopian performance, in fact The Storyteller was a more dystopian performance. The Wankchowski bros. have a lot to answer for.

16:33 / 06.04.06

I just started rereading my copy of it, it was a very long time I read it and I wasnt sure how well it would have aged, but so far I think it is lightyears ahead of the movie, especially the characterisation of V himself.

When watching the movie I actually found V to be quite annoying, a bit pretentious overdramatic, theatrical and very very gay in a stereotypical way and I didnt recall thinking that about the character when I read the comic at all.

But upon rereading it he seems like a totally different character than he does in the comic, especially in the dialogues with Evey, he comes through much more as a friend and fatherfigure to her than this quite obsessed vigilante figure than he does in the movie. He feels a lot more like a real person. I dont know why they decided to strip all of that away. I dont think Evey would have tried to betray him at the bishop if she had been with the character from the comic.... which she didn´t.

Alan moore knows the score, and I am once again surprised how much he did so even 20 years ago.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

17:11 / 06.04.06

very, very gay

< sigh > Here we go again... King Felix, could you unpick this please, preferably in a way that doesn't expose you as a moron?

18:08 / 06.04.06

KING FELIX, would I be correct in thinking from your post that you believe V’s sexual orientation was changed from heterosexual in the comics to homosexual in the film, and that you find this change annoying? I’d be interested in reading you make references to the comic and the film to support these conclusions and why you find it objectionable. Is it what you understand to be poor stereotyping that is the issue, and if so is it possible to have what you’d call a stereotypically gay V in which the only reference to his sexuality in the film is that he’s fallen in love with a woman (Evey)?

21:43 / 06.04.06

wow, I thought that my comment "in a very stereotypical way" would be enough to not expose me like a moron.

Do you think it would be possible to read beyond that, since it seems I am not the only one to have picked up on that?

21:55 / 06.04.06

Seth: In the comic I didnt think a lot about Vs sexual orientation at all, he came through as a quite asexual character, and I agree with a lot of people that the falling in love with evey thing felt really out of place, in the original I dont think there was never any kind of sexual or romantic tension between Evey and V.

I am sorry about that comment but I really didnt think that anyone would bite on that as I addded the comment "stereotypical".

My post wasn't at all about his sexual orientation but more about how twodimensional he was portrayed in the film.

00:29 / 07.04.06

I think it was the entirety of this comment that Flowers was objecting to: When watching the movie I actually found V to be quite annoying, a bit pretentious overdramatic, theatrical and very very gay in a stereotypical way. It’s clear from the movie that V is in love with Evey. He says as much himself, and as a result cannot be gay in a *stereotypical* way, because in order to fit the stereotype he cannot be in love with her. So if V cannot be *stereotypically gay* in terms of what the very basic unit I could hypothesise as being part of such an imaginary stereotype – in that he would have to only be attracted to men – then it begs the question, “whose stereotype are we talking about?”

It seems to me that Flowers was objecting to a comment that seems to conflate *annoying,* *pretentious* and *overdramatic* with being *stereotypically gay.* Because the comment was in the context of you being annoyed with this characterisation it reads as though you are making a comment on gay people, or at least what you understand to be a gay stereotype. It reads as though you endorse that stereotype. If that’s the way Flowers was reading your post then I think any anger on hir part is understandable. If ze believed you to be prejudice against gay people then a challenge to that is certainly called for. It seemed to me that Flowers wasn’t calling you a moron, rather ze was asking you to clarify what you meant in a manner that didn’t expose you as a moron.

I can really understand people taking offence at the way you phrased the post, which is why I think it would certainly be useful for you to clarify what you meant or retract the comment if you think that’s a better way to proceed. Can you see what I mean here? Would you mind clarifying for Flowers and myself?

06:00 / 07.04.06

It seems to me that Flowers was objecting to a comment that seems to conflate *annoying,* *pretentious* and *overdramatic* with being *stereotypically gay.*

I don't really think it conflated when you see that he's put and after the first three, so I think they're pretty much seperated. Is it really an offensive comment aswell? Especially if the first three words are seperated from gay.

I'm mainly posting because I can imagine that this was one of the things that Alan Moore was maybe annoyed at, if his character didn't come across as.....gay or whatever. I noticed the same type of thing that I think King Felix was alluding to in that bit where he was making the egg on toast in a flowered apron and humming to himself for instance......I can see how it might have moved away from the comic book quite a lot, and I imagined Alan Moore being really unimpressed with that scene. I mean, that flowered apron.......it looked really out of place on him.

Minor gripe anyway, that and the bit where he's saying all the V words are the two cringeworthy moments for me, but I still loved it overall.

09:03 / 07.04.06

I thought I did clarify it in my later post...but I'll give it another try.

And no I dont have any prejudices against gays, I do have prejudices against stereotypical portrayals of any group, and bad characterizations in movies, and I felt they did portray V as a heterosexual stereotype of a flamboyant gay person, such as the judy garland shrine and some of the dialogue. I felt that maybe they did that in order to give the viewers a reason why there wasnt any romance between them. That the writers assumed that it would be so unorthodox with a young woman and a masked hero spending time together in a movie without falling in love and thus had to put in a plotdevice to explain why not. Or maybe they just read a totally different comic than I did.

As for Vs love speech in the end, I certainly didn't see that one coming.

Anyway, I certainly didnt need to offend anyway, and this is not what I wanted to discuss.

I was just happily surprised upon rereading it that it was still such a good read and also that it differed so much more from the movie than I remembered. So happy that I decided to make one of my yearly lurking breaks to sing the praise of Mr Moore.

Another thing I realise now when I have gotten a few chapters more into it is how much more the comic is about compassion and love, and also much more about personal liberation.

Haus of Mystery

09:10 / 07.04.06

I noticed the same type of thing that I think King Felix was alluding to in that bit where he was making the egg on toast in a flowered apron and humming to himself for instance......

Cos that definitely makes him gay.

Jesus.

Do you actually read Barbelith? Do you actually think this kind of comment ain't gonna be pounced on and torn apart for the offensive tripe it so clearly is?

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