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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

V For Vendetta (PICS)

  
  

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The Falcon
13:47 / 21.03.06
Mmm. That's such an odd thing to say - wistful almost. Like 'Oh, if I had only read Trainspotting, but it's gone now... gone away.'

I can see by how this's lining up that I'm not going to very much likey, so I may wait for video.
 
 
Spaniel
13:53 / 21.03.06
That's such an odd thing to say - wistful almost. Like 'Oh, if I had only read Trainspotting, but it's gone now... gone away.'

I know. Weird.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:58 / 21.03.06
I'd just like to apologise to Boboss because he didn't actually like it. But he's got a baby instead, and eighteen years to train it to bring down the Government, so he's technically ahead.
 
 
Spaniel
14:29 / 21.03.06
Damn straight.
 
 
The Falcon
14:40 / 21.03.06
From the future: 'It was a harsh life, growing up at Camp Boboss - weapons training and incendiaries at two, anarchist theory at four. But ultimately it was worth it, I feel.'
 
 
miss wonderstarr
17:31 / 21.03.06
I've just seen the film and it made me want to go back to the comic, which for maybe 15 years I have felt was dingy, dated, distant, overworked, visually overcrowded, emotionally and intellectually uninvolving, and occasionally wincingly bad (a chapter based entirely around V singing a song, as I recall... which falls horrifically flat, and only shows off Moore's penchant for campy, pun-laden, sub-Cabaret lyrics.)

If I misremember, then it's because I haven't felt inclined to pick up the comic again after one read on its first graphic novel release. (So it's Moore's fault, you see.)

Apart from Portman's artificial accent, and the army of V, whose eager extras reminded me too much of the Fraggle Rock party in the Matrix, I felt it was a lot better than I'd expected, and more enjoyable and effective in fact than my memory of the original. The world-building was really interesting -- the domestic interiors, and corporate logos -- a sense of Britain that felt vaguely 1940s (rations, eggy in a basket) kind of 1970s (Benny Hill), with contemporary technology and topical references. And I felt these contemporary nods were actually quite pertinent satire -- Prothero as a Richard Littlejohn rabblerousing TV figure, the Three Lions tabloid, the sentimental ring-a-roses dead-kiddy monument -- with messages that even if not daring, were at least welcome -- the gov't and media creation of panic to justify further repression, the execution of terrorists-who-weren't, the demonising of Muslims and the quiet respect for the Koran.

Maybe the politics was just teenage-style posturing, as some reviews have said -- but I felt quite moved by the finale, when the dead returned, and gained a new admiration for Moore's language when it was spoken aloud in the Valerie sequence, and a respect for his message about retaining that one inch of integrity they can never take, which I think really hit home hard in the prison.

A shame to see only David Lloyd credited, with the author missing, but I am going to go back to Moore's book now, and perhaps he'd be happy about that.


---
NB. I usually really dislike S. Fry, but he and Finch seemed to provide the heart of this film, compared to Evey and V's colder love.
 
 
---
21:30 / 21.03.06
Ok, I've never read the comic book, (something I regretted and still do.)

Alchy, why regret not reading the comic when you can go and pick it up from yer local real live library or comic shop?

Mmm. That's such an odd thing to say - wistful almost. Like 'Oh, if I had only read Trainspotting, but it's gone now... gone away.'

I know. Weird.

Yes, sorry. Let me rephrase that : I've not read the comic book yet. (something I regretted when I went to see the film and still do.)

Just a case of having a load of other stuff that I wanted to buy before that. In a way it's good, because I get the feeling that I wouldn't have liked it nearly as much if I had done, and seeing as I loved the film it's turned out ok. I went to see it again today and liked it even more aswell.

"Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. There is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof."

That line made me shiver when I just Googled it to fetch the quote and read it. Definitely my fave in the film.
 
 
CameronStewart
22:10 / 21.03.06
Well, it's one of Moore's, so that bodes well for your enjoyment of the book...
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:47 / 22.03.06
Update: I'm really not much enjoying my re-read of the book, post-film. The visual design still seems very dingy and cluttered (Look & Learn style, which is appropriately post-war but not attractive or easy to read), the lettering ugly and unclear, and the script really overdone: heavy balloons full of words half-filling the frames.

I'm only about four chapters in, but the backstory of how we got a Fascist Britain seems far more naive (by Alan Moore's admission) and implausible than that provided by the film -- Europe and Africa destroyed by nuclear war? -- and Evey as a 16 year old orphan, match-packer and would-be prostitute is a far weaker figure than Evey as a young BTN professional (the latter is also a lot neater in terms of the Jordan Tower explosion).

There's some awful portrayal of a "sensitive" (= gay) man already, pouting like John Inman and unable to resist "ooh, get me" puns at every opportunity. The internal monologues and the soliloquies (Leader to Fate, V to Justice) drown in Moore's over-ripe "poetic" style, and evidence an absurdly stilted attitude towards women from both hero and villain -- Leader harping on about his ideal unattainable computer bride and V shouting "slut" and "whore" at a statue. The audience for the Voice of Fate are just as stereotypically working-class as any shown in the film's pub and sitting-room scenes.

This probably isn't the thread for any further detailed discussion of the book, but I wonder if the film isn't actually a more successful imagining of Moore's fascist Britain, a stripping (largely) of his prose overdoses (though I found V's introductory speech in the film appalling) and a strengthening of story and character -- or at least, that this revision of his work is more appropriate now and works better now. Perhaps Moore's book would have had its greatest impact and relevance in the early to mid 80s, in which case an updating (while keeping it retro) seems appropriate to me.
 
 
_Boboss
09:04 / 22.03.06
pretty sure the one you reckon is gay is actually the one getting off with rose the widow a few chapters later, so he's not really all that gay. camp acting straight man! weird1
 
 
miss wonderstarr
09:17 / 22.03.06
You're right, maybe he [Derek Dascombe] is meant to be bi. But Almond does call him a degenerate, and makes it clear that he's regarded as "deviant" -- "a lot of you media people are 'sensitive', aren't you? I don't know why the leader tolerates you".

Also, Derek is well-groomed with (as far as I can tell from D. Lloyd's art) nice, probably-moisturised skin, so I call gay on this one.

A couple of other points about V the book comparing to V the film.

1. The cod-cockney dialogue that some have criticised in the movie is there with apples and pears on in the book. Reading this monstrous attempt at London accents makes you wonder how Moore got a reputation for naturalistic comic-book conversations.

"Cor, that's smashin' that is, Dennis. Guz down a treat. Drop out o' the bishop's private stock, izzit?"

"Eza lad, enee, the bishop?" (p.49)

If an American scriptwriter had been responsible for that, we'd be accusing him of a contempt for or at least total ignorance of any England outside Mary Poppins.

2. The Benny Hill routine in the film is actually very much in keeping with the slapstick innuendo of the comic book's sit-com, "You Have To Laugh."

3. Evey is a far weaker character to begin with, in the comic, which may make her transformation more dramatic, but which would have come across, I think, as a very poor female role in a 2006 film: she's treated as a sweet but fairly stupid infant by V, who gives her a bedroom with a doll's house and teddy bear, and reads to her from Enid Blyton. She's later shown happily watching doggy cartoons, alone. The dialogue about Faust, in the film, has Evey recognising the story -- in the book, V is all "oh, I couldn't expect you to know anything about that!"
 
 
_Boboss
11:58 / 22.03.06
so, despite the fact he's clearly shown having/wanting sex-with-a-lady, you're going to 'call gay on this one' because he's described by a violent fascist as 'deviant', 'degenerate' and 'sensitive', works in the media, brushes his hair and, you reckon, uses moisturiser? that's fucking hilarious basically
 
 
_Boboss
12:05 / 22.03.06
sorry, missed the 'bi' bit you mentioned - whatevar. i reckon there might be a bit in there about the new margins that a fascist society would develop for itself once it had exterminated all the traditional enemies. being 'arty' or having slightly leftfield tastes, as in the case of dascombe and prothero, would place one firmly in the 'dodgy' camp. enforced heterosexuality, i.e. compulsory saturday-afternoon footie, that kind of thing.
 
 
CameronStewart
12:57 / 22.03.06
>>>The Benny Hill routine in the film is actually very much in keeping with the slapstick innuendo of the comic book's sit-com, "You Have To Laugh."<<<

I think it's actually closer to the cabaret acts at the Kit Kat Keller - there's one depicted in the comic in which a chorus girl dressed as V (sans trousers) comes out on stage, sneaks up behind the other girls (dressed as Norsefire soldiers, also sans trousers), panto-villain-style, and sets off a firecracker. We don't see it but they probably then chase each other all around the stage like in the tv sketch of the film.

>>>The dialogue about Faust, in the film, has Evey recognising the story -- in the book, V is all "oh, I couldn't expect you to know anything about that!"<<<

I think this is less about Evey being weak and V being condescending, and more in keeping with the idea that Norsefire destroyed all the art, and so Evey couldn't possibly have read it.
 
 
CameronStewart
13:35 / 22.03.06
Also, the reason the film Evey recognizes Shakespeare and Goethe is not to strengthen her character by making her more literate and intelligent, but for cheap exposition to the audience - "Oh, I recognize that! It's Faust, which is a play about cheating the Devil, isn't it? And that comment you made earlier, it's a quote from Macbeth, right?" The book assumed a certain amount of literary eduaction on the part of the audience, (V's oblique reference to Faust in the book - "He made a deal, too" - is chilling, but left unexplained) but I guess you can't really do that for modern film audiences...
 
 
miss wonderstarr
16:36 / 22.03.06
Gumbitch, sorry, my comment was a parodic riff on this, upstream:

>>>But IMO, the movie makes it fairly clear that V is gay.

How so?>>>

His sense of style & drama, his voice, his flamboyance, his wit, his precision & care with his appearance, the way he cooks, the way he lives, the way in which he speaks, the music that he likes. His devotion to Valerie the actress (although this also has non-"gay" motivation). I think he **was** gay and has moved beyond sexuality. I felt that the scenes with Fry's character were a deliberate parallel with the some of the Shadow gallery scenes.

Cameron, yes you're bang-on about the Kit-Kat cabaret and I was going to post that reference myself, having read further chunks of the book this afternoon. (Should possibly have read the whole thing again before posting, but sometimes it's too tempting to join the discussion prematurely.)

The art and lettering become cleaner and more effective by the 3rd book, I think, but the working-class citizens some have criticised in the film are there in astonishingly lumpen form in the original: "NGMF GLEP GOR What about these BANGERS? No, CHLOF, I mean, I believe in law'n'order... GHMF pass the ketchup, ay?"

There's also a Scottish accent that sounds barely better than Middenface McNulty to my London ears: "Oah! Y'wantae buy a SHOOTER, eh? Wull, am shura don't know why yur askin' ME... what YUR wantin's a MAN aboot the place. Wee girruls shouldnae frig aboot we bloody CANNONS."

If I am really off-topic by continually discussing the book, please say -- but I think it has relevance to criticisms of the film's dialogue (and to an extent, performance) -- one reviewer, the Guardian I think, scorned the script for including a cop calling someone "chummy", but it's in Moore's script too. I think that's in keeping with the early-80s TV drama feel of it.
 
 
CameronStewart
01:57 / 23.03.06
>>>If I am really off-topic by continually discussing the book, please say<<<

Obviously not off-topic, but there is a companion thread to discuss the graphic novel in the comics section, should you want to discuss it at greater length...
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:48 / 23.03.06
Yeah, I think I'll head there too, having now finished my re-read. The original plot and cast list is a lot more complicated than the film, as many of you will remember; I think it was wise to streamline.

A final point for now about the adaptation: I felt it did really well in conveying the characteristic Moore style of echoed images and parallels. The similar shots and dialogue, cueing a feeling of borderline deja-vu, were a smart way of translating that to cinema.
 
 
Evil Scientist
10:46 / 23.03.06
Saw it last night.

It was pretty much what I was expecting, a watered-down version of the book. But I felt it had a lot more going for it than the other Moore-book adaptations. I certainly didn't come out feeling cheated.

The Good.

The Army of V: Another way of V setting the populace free from observation by the state. Considering that they left out all of the computer-shenanigans they needed a way of doing that. The march on Parliment was pretty good visually, I liked the army fearlessly marching down the barrels of the soldiers.

The Domino Scene: Visually impressive and backed up by the voice of Finch predicting it after his visit to Larkhill (sans acid trip). Pretty powerful stuff.

Interrogation/Valerie's Story: Considering they left this part pretty much intact I'm not surprised it survived the translation to screen.

Hyperviolencefaceknifekungfugo!: Simply because it meant they kept in one of my favourite lines in V "You're standing over there with all your knives and fancy martial art tricks and I've got a gun.". Action hero bullshit, but I like it.

Little Details: I quite liked V pointing out that asking a masked man who he is, is rather paradoxical. Evey betraying him works (I felt) in the context of the film (she's been held prisoner rather than willingly staying with him as she does in the book). Oh, and I got a chuckle at the David Blunkett-esque Leader.

The Bad.

What was that accent supposed to be Portman? South African?

The Vorhees Effect: It's unnecessary for V to be a "burnt freak" under his mask. Firstly the crap with the gloves telegraphs his deception of Evey in the interrogation scenes (you don't see their faces and oooh they all wear gloves, wonder who that is). Secondly it takes a hell of a lot away from V's insistance that the face beneath the mask is irrelevant.

I much prefer the thought of V having a normal human face under there.

The "I love you." moment stank of cliche. Utterly unnecessary. Whilst I always thought V loved Evey in his own sociopathic way, it again took something away from the character to present him as some angst-ridden freak who can never have teh love he so desperately seeks. Pah. V see's Evey as his replacement, the V of a new and healthier world.

Overall the film dragged a little in places. It felt a bit obvious in parts too, but then I have read the book about a trillion times. Perhaps someone coming new to the story would have found it acceptable (although my brother's girlfriend didn't like it very much).
 
 
miss wonderstarr
11:17 / 23.03.06
I believe he does tell Evey he loves her, in the book. Not in that implied-romantic manner, though.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:53 / 23.03.06
Still haven't seen it, but it's quite funny that the Army of Vs seems to get a big thumbs-up from many people in the thread- given that that was what most people thought would ruin the movie, it gives me quite a chuckle! (Kind of like re-reading the Dr Who threads after the series had finished and seeing just how far off the mark we'd been with the speculation).
 
 
Seth
15:38 / 23.03.06
It's not implied though, is it? Doesn't he actually use the term fall in love?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:54 / 23.03.06
Stoats On A Plane Still haven't seen it, but it's quite funny that the Army of Vs seems to get a big thumbs-up from many people in the thread- given that that was what most people thought would ruin the movie,

I think we all thought it would suck because we assumed that V would be an anarchist as he is in the book. Because he isn't, it actually makes a deal of sense.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
18:41 / 23.03.06
The book assumed a certain amount of literary eduaction on the part of the audience, (V's oblique reference to Faust in the book - "He made a deal, too" - is chilling, but left unexplained) but I guess you can't really do that for modern film audiences...

That's a shame. That was one of my favorite parts from the graphic novel (it's one of those moments when the mask's smile is extra spooky and foreboding) and I had hoped it would be in the film.

I still debating whether or not to make an effort to see this or to wait for it's Blockbuster release.
 
 
Slim
16:23 / 25.03.06
I saw it last night and was enjoyed it. As others have said, it comes off as a watered-down version of the book but since I went in with the mindset that this was not the V for Vendetta that we know, it didn't bother me.

For the record, I thought that the Army of V scene was one of the weaker moments in the film.
 
 
sleazenation
23:07 / 25.03.06
Saw it last night...

didn't have high expectations and thos expectations were about right...

It didn't work in many different ways, but still had some redeeming features...


But the thing that surprized me the most was how cheap it all looked... many of the sets looked flimsy and like what it was, a brightly lit film studio. There was none of the decay of a stagnant economy in a post-apocalyptic world... It all felt so... flat...
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
00:28 / 26.03.06
Just saw it last night at an iMax cinema on the North Shore of Mass. While yes I will agree that the massive crowd of Vs is a bit silly... the message id far more important.

The depiction of a country of malcontents ratrher than one or two is incredibly key. It delivers a message that there is a real threat... that the people are not being fooled.

My heart sank to record lows as I looked at a sold out crowd of 350 mostly white middle class suburbanities... and realized that the message was lost on them.

I was so set to be disappointed by the movie but was more disappointed by the world I live in. And with the company I work for being bought out on the same day... well... my eyes were hardly dry.
 
 
ZF!
07:02 / 26.03.06

What was that accent supposed to be Portman? South African?

Hah! We went to see it last night and this is what we (all raised in SA) thought as well. Almost an Afrikaans accent even. Funny!

To my surprise I really liked it. I wished they had given a bit more initial background to the world that it was set in, and at least a nod to how V masterminded the breakout from Larkin. Things I thought were uneccessary were V being in love with Evie, and his scarring.

Overall though, I really enjoyed the film. Thought it was a rather decent adaption.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
07:53 / 26.03.06
I looked at a sold out crowd of 350 mostly white middle class suburbanities... and realized that the message was lost on them.


Don't people of this description make up a sizeable proportion of the Army of V? Evey and her media colleagues, and Dietrich and presumably most of his friends, are white and middle-class. Everyone in V's London is white. I'm interested in why you think the film's message would be lost on this audience.
 
 
sleazenation
08:23 / 26.03.06
Because they are white in the same assumed whiteness kind of way that the audience operattes on all the time? because we never actually see or hear any element of ethnic cleansing as we do in the book... no mourning for black uhuru and tamila motown here...

this come back to another problem I had with Evey...in the film she doesn't really go on a journey - she's defiant from the beginning (breaking curfews) to the end (blowing up houses of parliment)

In the book evey starts from a position of poverty of the imagination - she literally can't imagine an alternative to norsefire and obedience and doesn't even know what has been lost...

this position also enables a lot more exposition to be delived to the audience in a clear and effective way...
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
09:35 / 28.03.06
Best explosion I've seen in a film for a loooong time, though.

I really, really enjoyed it. I was impressed by it's commitment, thought it had very good ensemble cast and think it got the themes of the book across well (although the 'A' word was conspicous by its absence, wasn't it?).

A Hollywood blockbuster (which I suppose this is. How did it do in the states, box-office wise?) which spends a good deal of its time looking like an episode of The Bill is never going to be a complete waste of time, as far as I'm concerned. And, yeah, I definitely cried at the end.

Good gouts of blood from the knifed fuzz, as well.
 
 
Pants Payroll
12:28 / 28.03.06
in the film she doesn't really go on a journey - she's defiant from the beginning (breaking curfews) to the end (blowing up houses of parliment)

I dont know how defiant she was. Yes, she was breaking curfew, but only because she was late getting to her bosses house, whom she was being forced to fuck.
 
 
invisible_al
13:48 / 28.03.06
Re: Ethnic Cleansing, I definately saw that in the Larkhill scenes. They're the only scenes where there are black people, along with the Arab Terrorist in Saxon Storm. I definately noticed blacks people being shovled into a pit at Larkhill. It's never over-stated, but it's a constant prescence in the background and all the more shocking when you realise why they're missing from the future.

Saw it over the weekend and I liked it, it managed to keep the books heart even if it left out some of the good bits. Hugo Weaving as V was spot on, the expression he got out of his body along with the lighting director was brilliant. Also was nice to see Portman being allowed to act again .
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
14:16 / 28.03.06
No one is happy about the situation. In the book (if memory serves... like many others I lent mine out in preparation of the movie) the public are dumb animals staring at the TV... in the film nobody buys the bullshit propaganda. Even the coke-bottle glassed gal yells at the TV.

I thought that was a nice touch. While it deviates from the text, it delivers a strong message that the people aren't dumb cattle, that they are a force to be reckoned with. That's the only reason why I didn't roll my eyes at the ending mob scene.

Unfortunately, the actual audience in the cinema consisted of dumb-faced animals. This is what filled me with a deep sadness.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
14:19 / 28.03.06
I actually had a friend call me, over an hour after we saw the opening night, and leave me a message that was something like.

"I just realized something, why werent there any black people in the final scene, or in the movie?"

I almost tried to reach through the phone and slap him before I realized that they never tell the audience that the non-white non-christians were all wiped out.
 
  

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