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Lost (US thread)

 
  

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buttergun
19:58 / 07.02.06
Not sure if this is fan rumor or just gossip, but a friend told me the other day that A-L's days may be numbered. Apparently the actress was recently busted for a DUI, and since she was on parole, might be looking at jail time (doubtful, I'm sure). My friend went on to say that in addition to this, the actress is supposedly "difficult on the set," all of which entails that A-L may get killed off later this season or early next.

I asked him if this was just A-L-hating fan gossip, or if it was legit. He told me he's read about the DUI stuff and her set difficulties in a few different places. Is anyone else aware of this?
 
 
X-Himy
22:31 / 07.02.06
DUI is truth. It was her and the actress that plays Libby as well.
 
 
Spaniel
16:37 / 08.02.06
I hate to be a grouch, but I really try and avoid Lost spoilers.

Would it be possible for people to flag up anything that *could* be a spoiler? I don't mean huge spoiler warnings, just a quick mention in the preamble.
 
 
buttergun
17:11 / 08.02.06
Let me join in on the grouchiness.

A "spoiler" is the revelation of future show events, events which have already been filmed but have not been broadcast. What I wrote was not a spoiler, because (as far as I know) nothing like A-L's death has been filmed. It's just speculation, based on her set behavior (I've since read elsewhere that she's usually late on the set and hard to work with as well) and her DUI/parole violation. The same thing happened with Shannon Doherty on Charmed, and look what happened to her character -- dead. (Or so I gather, I've never watched the show.)

So no "spoiler" space was necessary in my post, or any other that deals with set gossip/true-life cast debacles. I too avoid spoilers, and even I think this is a different animal.
 
 
Spaniel
18:27 / 08.02.06
Yeah, I know the definition of spoiler, that's why I said "could".

My problem with your post is that I couldn't get past the word rumour, and so couldn't judge the context for myself. That's why I phrased my last post carefully and hopefully courteously, although in retrospect I think I should've made my thinking clearer, and will attempt to do so here.

Rumour's a tricky word, in that people often misuse the term, and, even worse, sometimes rumours have their basis in fact (and, yes, I appreciate that speculation does not equal fact). As a general rule, I try not to post rumours that could turn out to be true (from an AICN anonymous source, for example) without flagging them up first, so that those who want to stay totally unspoiled run no risk.


I'm glad you feel similarly, and I'm even more glad that this thread has remained pretty much spoiler free.
 
 
Spaniel
18:29 / 08.02.06
And by flagging I don't necessarily mean spoiler space. In the case of rumour that would seem a little extreme.
 
 
buttergun
12:41 / 09.02.06
What did you all think of last night's episode? I enjoyed it, and thought it was a return to form. Also really appreciated the Ambrose Bierce reference. And though I've always enjoyed Sawyer's humor, he's never been one of my favorite characters...until now, that is. FINALLY someone's stood up to Jack and Locke's bullshit. Sawyer's thrown in his hand for anarchy, and God bless him for it.

And calling Sun "Tokyo Rose" was funny on many, many levels.
 
 
CameronStewart
13:01 / 09.02.06
Definitely miles better than the dismal Charlie episode last week.

Possible Easter Eggs:

Locke is placing "An Occurrence At Owl Creek Bridge" on the bookshelf - the story (by Bierce, as mentioned above) begins with a man being pushed off the titular bridge with a noose around his neck. The rope snaps and he escapes, and in flashback it is told that he was a farmer who was captured by the Union army (Bierce was a Civil War-era author) for attempting to destroy the bridge to impede the Union's progress. After escaping the hanging he manages to find his way home and to his wife, and then suddenly snap, the rope goes taut and he dies - his escape and reunion with his wife was only a fantasy conjured by his brain in the split-second before he dies...

Also, the radio transmission Sayid and Hurley hear on the radio is the Glenn Miller Orchestra - Miller vanished while on a flight to Paris and was never found...
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
13:29 / 09.02.06
Didn't they make a Twilight Zone of that story?

Also, Diane The Waitress? Kate's mom.
 
 
Eskay Uno
14:19 / 09.02.06
Also, Hurley was reading Bad Twin, a Lost-verse novel mentioned previously somewhere I think, a novel soon to be available on amazon.com!
And does anyone think that Hurley's hint of possibly being lost in time as well as space has any merit to it?

I liked this episode. Sawyer has had a really interesting arc so far, possibly the most complex and certainly the most adventurous. With Dark-Charley as his invisible accomplice, he's become a real power-player on the island. And you know he's thinking a few moves ahead so it'll be interesting to see where all the relationships go with this new sheriff in town.
 
 
CameronStewart
14:21 / 09.02.06
>>>Didn't they make a Twilight Zone of that story?<<<

Actually it was an award-winning French short film (Best Short at the Oscars and at Cannes) - Serling and co. purchased the US rights and aired it as an episode of the Twilight Zone (given the obvious structural similarities to that show).
 
 
buttergun
15:22 / 09.02.06
Another great thing about Bierce -- he just walked off into the desert one day, never to be seen again.

The novel tie-in kinda annoys me. Seems like pointless marketing, like if Hurley'd been drinking a Coke and mentioned it by name, saying how great it was, but instead of a Coke it was a soda manufactured by the network: "Hey, this ABC-Cola is great!"
 
 
buttergun
15:25 / 09.02.06
Oh, and I also loved it how Sawyer poked fun at one of the show's loopier moments, by referencing Kate's horse, saying Jack was going to hop on it and put on a white hat. Funny stuff.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
15:33 / 09.02.06
>>"ABC-Cola"<<

Ha! But, yeah, unless it's about some Hanso goon, pretty pointless.

What I like about where Lost is headed with these two new Avatars of Evil is that, as Kate so dutifully pointed out, it's all about Sawyer's issues, not some Others Alliance or any hackneyed nonsense. It's two guys with serious issues making life difficult for everyone else.
 
 
doyoufeelloved
17:39 / 09.02.06
I was sitting there watching the episode with my friends saying "When is someone finally going to do something evil, awful, and bad? I'm tired of this wishy-washy nonsense!" Five minutes later, Sawyer walked out with the gun and made all my dreams come true. Charlie attacking Sun is actually my single favorite part of the episode -- as I'd said before, I reeeaaallly like the idea of him cracking entirely and giving into his worst impulses. Somebody on the island had to, and logically, he really would be the first to crumble.
 
 
iamus
14:31 / 10.02.06
EXT. BEACH - CAMPSITE - NIGHT


Sawyer stares them out, illuminated by both the fire in the camp and that other, far more burningsome one that rages deep down inside those COMPLEX EYES of his.


SAWYER
Looks like there's a new sheriff in town!


All the women take a SIMULTANEOUS BREATH.

Sawyer, bluffed-up and cocksure, SWINGS HIS RIFLE onto his shoulder and confidently swaggers through the centre of the group, shooting a masterful glance at a silently fuming Jack as he passes.

KRAK! Jack backhands the base of Sawyer's skull, who then collapses to the ground in a heap.


KATE
OH!


Jack leans down and retrieves the gun, all the while maintaining a look of GENERIC INTENSITY.


KATE
Oh!


JACK
(To Locke)
He has no idea about tracking.
You can follow his trail easy enough, right John?


LOCKE
Do we all shit in the woods? Hell Yeah!
After Ethan Rom this'll be a fucking
cakewalk!


Jack and Locke head off into the jungle, hand in hand.


JACK
Lets never fight again.
 
 
sleazenation
14:42 / 10.02.06
It would be really interesting if someone in the losties just decided to kill Sawyer now on the grounds that as an obstacle that can't be tortured into submission and can be as obstinate and unreliable he is just too dangerous to have the only access to the guns...

But that isn't going to happen, and I don't actually see that it's going to be all that hard to get a gun out of sawyer's stash anyway...
 
 
Spaniel
18:28 / 10.02.06
I do so love a nice con. Sawyer managed to be wonderfully arseholish this episode, so much so that I actually found myself gesticulating angrily at the screen. I mean, what a fucking stupid selfish pillock.
But so so good, about time we got some genuine conflict within the group. Conflict that won't be easily solved (even if the guns are quickly found), and that looks like it's here for the long haul. Okay, so it is all a tad melodramatic - I'm thinking particularly of that midnight meeting between Darth Charlie and Sawyer - but, hey, Lost is melodrama.
Also, for a moment there, didn't it seem like Sawyer was actually making an attempt to be a decent human being? That the writers have thrown him straight back in at the deep end of badness has come as quite a surprise to me, but so far it does seem to make sense. I mean, if you loathe yourself as much as Sawyer does, then it would make sense that you'd want to work twice as hard to piss people off if they were starting to like you.

I wonder how the foreshadowed Locke and Eko split will factor into this.

As for Hurley's suggestion and the book, I think they might be examples of the writers playing with us (made explicit in Hurley's "Joke dude" comment).
 
 
Spaniel
19:29 / 10.02.06
Oh, and did people spot Kate's Mum?
 
 
iamus
11:43 / 11.02.06
I didn't make the connection, but I was wondering who the actress was.

I actually really enjoyed this episode and I agree with Boboss that it's fantastic to finally see some tension and polarisation within the camp. You get the feeling that at the start of the show, they had a lot of characters that could've gone either way then they decided they liked them all too much and everybody lived in a sort of happy stasis (not even really pitted off against the Others, because they've been drawing out that plot strand). Now it feels like the writers have realised they need to roll their sleeves up, uncap their pens and get down to some serious bastarding. The results are looking good.

It's odd. To begin with I was kind of impressed that nobody was going all typically Lord of the Flies. Sawyer and Jin were arseholes, but that was about it. After a season and a half, I'm ready for them to fuck shit up. Oh and nice wee Charlie, mugging Sun? Is this the beginning of Roussau's "illness"? Could this be tied in with what made the Others the Others?


Make no mistake though, this isn't about Sawyer's self-loathing. This ep is All About The Cock. Who wants to lock it away. Who wants to dish it out. Who wants to control it. Sawyer's motivation is not to make himself look bad. It's simple Alpha Male grappling.
 
 
Spaniel
18:54 / 11.02.06
Looking like an utter wanker's just an added bonus.
 
 
iamus
23:43 / 11.02.06
Well kind of, yeah. More that that's just his way of doing things. (Bear in mind I'm a wee bit pished, and might not actually agree with what I'm about to say in the morning).


Sawyer works behind the scenes (even when he's at the forefront of what's going on), he plays people off against one another, and then steps in at the critical moment and assumes control. He doesn't give a shit about how people see him as long as he's getting himself into position. That's the sort of thing he can worry about later, if the situation arises. He's 100% comfortable with being the wanker in every situation if that's what's needed.

Compare that to Jack, who seems to fall into the role of Alpha Male by luck.
He's a doctor, so he immediately becomes the person to look to after a plane crash. He's an accidental miracle worker, so patients flock to him and trust in his skills. It's just an innate part of his personality. He doesn't think about it. He doesn't understand it. He just tries to cope with and incorporate it.

Locke has never been an Alpha Male. The island is a new experience to him, totally alien to his normal life. His bushwacking fantasy self has come to life and he's doing his best to keep up with it. He's all about control. Everything needs to be quantified and boxed and labeled. A pawn is a pawn. A King is a King. A computer that needs a certain code punched into it every hundred and eight minutes is a computer that needs a certain code punched into it every hundred and eight minutes. If he's not got a model of who is who and what is what, then he doesn't have a model.

Sawyer is best adapted to the struggle, because he's the only one who's used to juggling random variables and knowing how to operate out of his depth.



All of what I've just said could easily be rendered bullshit with the next bit of plot progression. Maybe Locke is best adapted, because the island really does function the way he believes it to. That's the way I see it as this point though.
 
 
Spaniel
08:12 / 12.02.06
Well, whilst I don'y entirely agree with your reading (I don't entirely disagree either), I'm pretty sure you're off the mark in terms of the creators intentions. It's seems clear that Sawyer is *supposed* to be a self loathing character: he's taken on the identity of the man he hates most in the world, he's pisses off everyone around him to an absurd degree (even when such behaviour might well get him killed), he sits in bars chatting with the series' other self-loathing arsehole, and a disproportionate number of his subplots have him coming out as an utter failure in terms of his relationships with other human beings.
Not only that, but Lost is about teh redemptive themes. Sawyer, like the rest of 'em, has his demons to battle, and those demons are invariably made very explicit. In Sawyer's case we literally have Kate (read: the writers) telling us that he hates himself and that this is the unfortunate driving force behind his actions - in addition to which, the last episode was all about illustrating that point: he get's close to a Kate analogue, starts to feel the love, starts to be loved, and then does everything he can to bring the whole thing crashing down.

Also, as for Sawyer's adapatability, I'm not really sure when I've seen him do much that'll ultimately work in his favour, and I'm bloody certain I've seen him do loads that most definitely won't. It seems to me that Sawyer has literally survived because of the generosity of others, and not because he's a master manipulator.
 
 
iamus
10:20 / 12.02.06
Yep. Now that my inner editor is working a bit better, I do think I was gargling with pish a little bit last night. I reckon you're pretty much on point with that assesment.
 
 
NewMyth
03:13 / 14.02.06
I take it that Sawyer had Charlie spy on/follow Locke as he moved and hid the guns... but in the past, Locke could hear people, like Boone I think, following him...?
 
 
CameronStewart
04:01 / 14.02.06
They made reference to that - Charlie said something along the lines that Locke was so flustered while moving the guns he didn't notice Charlie tailing him.
 
 
buttergun
15:46 / 14.02.06
That's right, I remember wondering how they were going to get out of that one, how super-hunter Locke failed to realize Charlie was tailing him.

In fact, I think Charlie's hurried explanation was something along the lines of, "He was too worried with his bleedin' guns to notice me," or something along those lines.

Charlie's British, you know.
 
 
Eskay Uno
19:55 / 14.02.06
I think it's great that Locke didn't spot Charlie. He's not all that, remember? Dude's got some serious issues. As he plays out his alhpa male power fantasies on the Island, he's coning people just as bad as Sawyer is. Worst of all, he's fooling himself and sealing his own fate. As Charlie and Sawyer proved, bad-ass super-hunter Locke is a just a cover for an easily duped, narcissistic, and deluded weirdo. I'll bet he even has trouble processing metaphor.
 
 
Spaniel
20:51 / 14.02.06
Well, I not convinced anyone on the island is quite that easily reduced - despite my last post.
I'll get back to this tomorrow.
 
 
Spaniel
20:53 / 14.02.06
But before I do, I should stress that I don't entirely disagree with your assessment.
 
 
Spaniel
16:26 / 15.02.06
Right, back to flesh out my assertion.

At his best I believe Locke to be a force for good - and I believe we have plenty of evidence for this. It's when he's at his worst that we should worry - when his narcissism, hubris and arrogance take over (I think these adjectives best describe Locke's dark side).
IMO this duality is tied to Lost's redemptive themes, in that Locke will ultimately have to face his dark side, and either overcome it or be overwhelmed.
 
 
NewMyth
01:45 / 16.02.06
Thank you folks for answering my question re Charlie following Locke.

One more: a few pages back Keith Hypnopompia said that the Old Other Guy was quoting Alvar Hanso... do you mean the bearded "Zeke" guy? I don't think Hanso said anything in the Orientation film, so I take it you're referring to the "Mission Statement," or something at the thehansofoundation.org website? That's pretty cool -- could someone please explain what he said?
 
 
Aertho
03:14 / 16.02.06
Anybody translate the heiroglyphics?
 
 
Spaniel
08:10 / 16.02.06
Media, although I can't link to it at the mo' (my internet connection is bizarrely slow today so I can't find the correct URL) I can guarantee that "Zeke" was quoting Alvar Hanso. You can read the quote on the Hanso website.
 
 
Uatu.is.watching
15:34 / 16.02.06
Check over at http://flight815.blogspot.com/2006/02/dork-fodder.html They seem to have translated the glyphs, but I have no idea where they found the images linked...
 
  

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