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Lost (US thread)

 
  

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Matthew Fluxington
08:35 / 12.01.06
I agree, "The 23rd Psalm" is definitely the best episode to date, and I've got a feeling the next one could be even better.

Mr. Eko = so so best. Well, along with John Locke, Maniac Of Faith.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
08:54 / 12.01.06
If you look at the black cloud as it hovers in front of Eko, there seems to be super-fast flashes of negative images - one of them looked like a young black boy, though I'm not sure. And if it was a young black boy, is it Walt, or young Eko?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
09:45 / 12.01.06
First one is definitely the guy he shot to save his brother.

The rest of them are wayyy to hard to catch on my piddling DVR. I'll check again when I get it on my iPod.

And the whole priest thing had me guessing the whole time until the end. My most satisfying moment was when Eko passes the lade with the statues and my wife and I simultaneously were like "Oh, shit he's gonna hide them in the plane and his brother won't even know!" We were wrong, sure, but it turned out even better.

Also, points to the Eko back story for being the first ever that doesn't completely blow its wad the first time out or artificially just leaves out puzzle pieces (What Did She Do, How Was He Paralyzed, How Did They Get Divorced). I genuinely want to know more about Eko's life; Sun, Jin, and Hurley style. The fact that the writers seem to be knocking out each of those artificial ones this season and have brought such a compelling new one to bear tells me they're getting better at this.

Although they are clearly still flying by the seat of their pants, 23 proves that they've structured everything in such a way that they can still wring spectacular stories out of the vagueness of previous episodes. This episode surprised me and in no cheap ways. It widened the scope of the overall mythology and served to deepen more than one character quite signifigantly.

I was also quite impressed with the Charlie development. Eko's returning the statue seemed to imply that he understood Charlie to be carrying it around with him much like Eko's stick. To remind him of things he might forget. That he'll always be an addict and will always have to remember what it took him to quit and that the temptation still exists. I honestly didn't peg such a tosspot for that level of complexity. I don't think he's using at all right now, but I don't he has any kind of faith in his chances either, hence the stockpile of primo skag.

One of the things I was desperately hoping for this season was some character depth and not in an overt way. Just a kind of familiarity. As much as I loved the first season, going back to it I felt like some of the shine had come off the apple (?). The characters just wern't fleshed out enough, despite their backstories. Possibly because of their backstories. As much as I love the cool puzzle pieces they provide, they tend to be pretty hamfisted examples of storytelling/character development. (It's why Exodus is pretty much the best flashback episode for everyone. There's no agenda.) While this season started off with little improvement of that trend, on the island itself the characters are really starting to grow in interesting ways, by default really. They simply can't keep acting the same way and, thankfully, the change appears to be happening in an organic way. They killed off potentially the character least flexible and now I'm really looking forward to spending a few more years with these chuckleheads.

Also.
"Walt's" message: You need to conn

I'm assuming he gave Mikey instructions on how to use the computer to track him down. Quoth the Goonies:
"Let's! Get out! Of here! LIKE NOWW!"
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
10:45 / 12.01.06
I agree - they've learned a lot about constructing backstories, and it shows with Anna Lucia and especially Mr. Eko. I wonder what they are going to do with Libby...
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
11:33 / 12.01.06
Also.
"Walt's" message: You need to conn

I'm assuming he gave Mikey instructions on how to use the computer to track him down.


Hmm...That sequence was very suspicious. When Michael was interrupted by Jack, I didn't see him press any buttons afterwards to delete or shut the screen down, etc. But when Jack went around him and looked at the screen, it was clear black, no text.

Suggest that Michael is cracking up and hallucinating those messages.
 
 
Aertho
11:47 / 12.01.06
Oh please. You're telling me you don't believe Walt is in the computer equipment?

Haven't you seen Poltergeist?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
12:49 / 12.01.06
Oh no, I strongly doubt that Michael is hallucinating or something.
 
 
gridley
13:29 / 12.01.06
Maybe it's just the magic of television, but the person claiming to be Walt is a damn fast typist for a kid. And a bit wordier online than I remember him being in person.
 
 
Tim Tempest
13:48 / 12.01.06
Gridley, you hit on exactly what I was going to say...Why were both Walt and Michael using proper punctuation? Neither of them did that in real life...

And why did Ecko burn up the plane? During that whole sequence, I was just thinking "Oh shit! He's gonna' burn down the whole damned island!" I mean, when you are stranded; isolated, then is it really a good idea to set flame to your entire habitat?

Great episode though. I was really thinking that Ecko was just some woodsy, computer salesman who happened to be really religious. When he slit those throats in a single slice with his big-ass knife, though, I realized my initial impressions were dead wrong. I also liked the fact that he didn't become religious until after his brother [the priest] was offed. He kind of took up that mantel, and tried to live the life his brother would have wanted.

Damn, that last bit sounds a little lame, so I'm going to call it quits for now.

But seriously, the black cloud...Those people images that were flashing: I was thinking that they were images from Ecko's mind, and the cloud was reading it while they had that staring contest.
 
 
Aertho
14:25 / 12.01.06
The island's monster is made of regrets. Yes, it was reading Eko's mind.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:28 / 12.01.06
Stills from the smoke.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:33 / 12.01.06
Hmmmmm...
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
15:17 / 12.01.06
The bearded "preist" is the one I mentioned, the guy he had shot.
 
 
Triplets
02:52 / 13.01.06
Telly Without Pity once said something like "do you reckon the other Losties ever think why people suddenly start staring off into the distance mid-conversation?". That got me wondering, are the flashbacks partly-forced by the island (or Dharma remote-viewers), opening and reading their minds like a big diary?
 
 
Aertho
03:00 / 13.01.06
Nope. Sorry. I don't understand what you mean, Trips. What?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
03:17 / 13.01.06
huh. I think understand and it's an interesting idea.

basically...is the Island responsible for the flashbacks that the characters are seeing in their heads because it is somehow reading their minds ala the magnetic nano cloud "reading" Eko and displaying portions of his flashback as visuals?

so the flashbacks that we as viewers see are actually the Island forcing those memories out...
 
 
Triplets
03:34 / 13.01.06
Keith has it: are the flashbacks something triggered by the island/the smoke (if only partly)? Sorry if I didn't make it clear.
 
 
CameronStewart
05:06 / 13.01.06
I think thats.....reaching. I don't think the characters are experiencing their pasts again, as we the audience see them, and certainly they're not experiencing the memory in such vivid, complete detail that they drop out of conscious thought for the duration - the characters experience the memory in a flash, the way most of us do, but we the audience get to see it in full because it's a dramatic device, and I think should be taken at face value.
 
 
Spaniel
09:52 / 13.01.06
I fall somewhere between reaching and hmmmm. Whilst I think most of the flashback stories do not require Electromagnetic Psychic Dusticons, in that simple plot mechanics normally provide more than enough prompting for the characters to relive their troubled pasts*, plot mechanics don't necessarily account for the characters' visions, synchronicitous visitations and miraculous transformations. Basically, I don't think it's any kind of coincidence that the Dust seems to able to read people, and that people are forced to face their demons on the island.

So then, what are the explosions? Large quanities of the Dust blasting its way to the surface?

As for writers not knowing where they're going, I'm still not convinced, and I think we're getting a little trapped in what could well be a false dichotomy: they're flying by the seats of their pants vs they have everything planned. Couldn't the answer be somewhere inbetween?

*Christ, if I had a past anything like some of these guys, I probably couldn't get out of bed in the morning, I'd be so busy wallowing in guilt/shame/etc...
 
 
Spaniel
09:53 / 13.01.06
Oh, and I just want to say that Cam's reading of the flashbacks is clearly spot on.
 
 
Spaniel
10:35 / 13.01.06
Lastly, from what I can see Walt's message reads "You need to com..." which makes me think the final word is "come".
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
11:30 / 13.01.06
So basically, Michael is just getting some weird porno spam.
 
 
Spaniel
11:43 / 13.01.06
That would be the sexy reading, yes.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
12:05 / 13.01.06
So then, what are the explosions? Large quanities of the Dust blasting its way to the surface?

A friend of mine received a game called Polarity or Christmas this year. You can't tell a whole lot by the site, but basically you balance magnets in stacks against opposing forces of magnetism on the board. The magnetic field of the board is perpetually changing and making all of the pieces stand on end, at angles, etc. Once in awhile, the forces go kind of crazy, and a bunch of pieces will clump up and fly across the board to reassemble in a new stack, which awards your opponent points. This moment where the pieces move around and fly across board is somewhat violent to watch.

With this evolving theory of the monster-cloud being some kind of magnetic storm/magnetic nano-intelligence, it's possible that the explosions are caused by the constantly shifting and generally wonky magnetic field on the island.
 
 
Spaniel
12:50 / 13.01.06
Well, whilst I'm prepared to go some way with the whole magnetic field thing* (for the time being), I also think it has the stink of 18th century amateur scientific study about it, in that it seems like a rather self satisfied, anal attempt to solve everything in the world evar. Personally I like my theory about the origins of the explosions better because, as we've seen, the Dust appears to come from under the ground. How does it get to the surface? Answer, it blasts through.
A lot more elegant than magnetic doodad fields and the wonky sphere, I hope you'll agree.


*It makes sense of how the Dust swarms and moves, for example, and seems to chime with the magnetic effects found in the bunker
 
 
buttergun
14:49 / 13.01.06
This was probably my favorite episode of the season so far. One thing to say at the outset is that the production staff is to be congratulated. Even though Lost is filmed in Hawaii, they were able to make it look like they'd filmed on location in Nigeria, for Eko's flashback sequences. Speaking of which, as far as I'm concerned, Eko now has the best potential flashbacks in future episodes. I love that Black Hawk Down-type stuff, with the truck-riding, machine-gun bearing gangs who rule certain areas of certain African countries. Future episodes focusing on Eko could promise more Road Warrior-type shenanigans, with Eko in full murderous warlord mode.

I never would've thought of pairing Eko with Charlie, which is one of the many reasons why I'm not a staff writer for Lost. But their stories compliment each other very well. I would've just stuck Eko with Locke, which would be the team-up of the century, but the writers played it smarter. Both Charlie and Eko have brother issues, and they play off each other very well. (By the way, the Eko and his brother scenes reminded me of one of my favorite films, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, where Eli Wallach's Tuco ran into his Catholic priest brother -- that whole sequence was similar to this past week's Lost).

And meanwhile, Kate cut Sawyer's hair while Jack looked on. Hmm. Yep, this episode pretty much confirmed that the Jack/Kate/Sawyer triangle is basically a waste of celluloid.

I'm also glad we finally got to see what Locke confronted, back in Season 1's "Walkabout." All this time we've been lead to believe it was a monster or something (or something mechanical), and I have to say I'm underwhelmed that it turned out to be the black smoke. So basically it's something we've already seen. I guess it makes sense, as every other time we've heard the explosions and the underground machinery, the black smoke has been nearby, but I never connected the two. I didn't go to any great lengths to study the images in the smoke, but they all seemed to be from Eko's life -- the man he killed, a crucifix, etc. Also, I love how things are foreshadowed in Lost. Remember how upset Eko was, back in the Tail-Enders focused episode, when the kids were taken? Now we see why -- he was taken himself, as a kid. By the way, hats off to the thug who tore off kid-Eko's cross and said, "You won't need this anymore." That man is going places.

I'm wondering about the order of events. I believe Nigeria only had those air restrictions until the late 1990s, maybe early 2000 or so. So, if Lost takes place in 2004, that plane's been sitting there for 4 or 5 years. Who knows. I highly doubt the day will come when every single mystery is solved. Some of the things in the show are surreal in a good way, and I'd say the Nigerian plane is an example of such. (Kate's horse showing up on the island is an example of surreal in a bad way).

Michael seems to have accepted it's Walt on the other computer a bit too readily. I still think it's an Other trick. Looks like next week might have some Islanders vs. Others action, but the previews are so misleading it's hard to tell. I'm really hoping for a nice Commando-esque action episode, probably courtesy of "Commando" scripter Jeph Loeb (Hurley even gave him a shout-out in the preview for next week: "Michael's gone all Commando!") I just want to see Locke and Eko waste Others left and right, Eko using his "Jesus stick" (Charlie's best line ever, by the way).

Oh yeah -- and I love how Charlie considers it a bad thing that he's been tossed out of Claire's shack, complete with its screaming baby. Just do the drugs, Charlie. You know we all want to see it happen. Hopefully there will be a Trainspotting moment where he'll see Turnip Head crawling along the ceiling.
 
 
Spaniel
15:13 / 13.01.06
...and I have to say I'm underwhelmed that it turned out to be the black smoke

Well, I think the black smoke is considerably more interesting than, say, a monster or a robot. Okay, so it's lost some of its luster in that we've seen it before, but it's an imaginative device nonetheless, and it's still pretty mysterious.
 
 
Spaniel
15:18 / 13.01.06
To reduce Charlie and Eko's relationship to its most basic conflict: Charlie's very talkative, Eko's taciturn (to put it mildly).
 
 
Triplets
18:05 / 13.01.06
Any monster that references The Abyss is ok in my book.

Eko/Charlie: Everything already said, plus: one's a religious guy who fell, one's a fallen guy who found religion.
 
 
Aertho
19:29 / 13.01.06
But which is Moses, which is Aaron?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
20:10 / 13.01.06
would've just stuck Eko with Locke, which would be the team-up of the century, but the writers played it smarter.

According to Lindelof, the conflict of Eko Vs. Locke is the major theme of the second half of the season.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
20:28 / 13.01.06
I'm trying to figure out whether Eko is Aaron and his brother is Moses, or vice versa.
 
 
sleazenation
22:37 / 13.01.06
Vice versa I think - Eko is Moses and that is why he venerates Aaron as such a great man...
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
23:51 / 13.01.06
Probably. Then that could mean Eko is meant to lead them to the Promised Land...
 
 
Spaniel
11:53 / 14.01.06
Trips, since when is Charlie religious? Have I missed something (more than possible)?
 
  

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