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Lost (US thread)

 
  

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miss wonderstarr
17:02 / 15.11.06
That was one of those episodes that makes me forgive everything annoying about Lost. It was some of the most powerful TV I've seen in ages, and the kicker is that it wouldn't have had that power unless I'd seen every episode to date. It was like a two-season, six-episode wind-up, and then a huge punch to the gut, the heart, the kidneys.
 
 
_pin
18:02 / 15.11.06
It was a bit boss, yeh.

To be honest, though, it made a good penultimate ep, as I was expecting it to be. Really want one more, athough it took me nearly a week to clear time enough to watch this one.

I think it's quite Lost that Jack's plan, while awesome in its telly execution, is obviously pointless and stupid.
 
 
Mouse
18:12 / 15.11.06
So . . . how long til it's back on the air?
 
 
Olulabelle
18:16 / 15.11.06
Was it only me sitting there going, "Hey...What?" about

SPOILERS





Kate's former husband looking extremely like Ethan Rom? I was really confused for a bit. Then I looked him up and realised why he looked so familiar.
 
 
buttergun
19:02 / 15.11.06
I was more thinking, "What is the point of this flashback?" Hmmm...okay, Kate lies and runs. Didn't we already know this? Oh wait, we learned that she "doesn't do taco nights."
 
 
Mouse
19:03 / 15.11.06
Yeah, I was doing the whole "Is that the guy from ... yeah, I think it is ... no, looks nothing like him ..." business for a while with him too.

Shee, so today's Barbelith lurking has me now having to rent Firefly as well as Starship Troopers. Ho hum, there go my evenings for the rest of the week.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:41 / 15.11.06
I'm starting to think the point of the flashbacks is mostly to provide cliffhangers and pacing for the actually-important present-day narrative. If we didn't keep switching to the past, there wouldn't be as much suspense in the present.

That's not really a good excuse, but it does seem part of the purpose.
 
 
Corey Waits
21:41 / 15.11.06
wonderstarr, you're definately right about that, but that's not to say that some of the flashbacks do actually tell us a lot about the characters.

Sun & Jin's flashbacks are usually the most 'rewarding', but I think that's mostly because of the language barrier in the modern day storyline.

But yeah, the last one with Kate seemed fairly pointless.

What? Now we have to wait 'til Feb for more Lost? Damn...
 
 
Spaniel
09:30 / 16.11.06
Feb the 7th to be precise.

Eeek, that is a long wait. I thought we were getting more in January.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
13:15 / 16.11.06
I was more thinking, "What is the point of this flashback?" Hmmm...okay, Kate lies and runs. Didn't we already know this? Oh wait, we learned that she "doesn't do taco nights."

Jeez, I'm kind of glad not every single flashback has to be a huge relevatory and symbolic moment in their lives that directly parallels what's going on. As someone who is legitimately interested in 90% of the characters (Sorry Clarlie, y'all are straight boring [although I did like your last one, Chuck]) I like the filling in the blanks more than "This is exactly like that time I did that thing...ONLY NOW I KNOW BETTER."

And considering this episode and, pretty much the entire mini-season in retrospect, was tethered around this pretty startling life-decision for ol' Freckles, I didn't mind seeing just a bit of what built her into that at all. Without, say, that shot of her running through what looked like the L.A. River back at the tail end of Season One, there would be no emotional impact in this "Season" "Finale" at all (okay, barely any). The flashbacks work for me, especially this season, because they've finally grown out of hitting the nail so fucking squarely and can just kind of laze around these characters' lives. The Stand needed Ticktock wandering the Nevada desert for 150 pages. Don't let anyone tell you different.
 
 
buttergun
14:23 / 16.11.06
>>Jeez, I'm kind of glad not every single flashback has to be a huge relevatory and symbolic moment in their lives that directly parallels what's going on.<<

I agree. But it would have made more dramatic sense to make Kate's story a bit more revelatory and symbolic because, you know, it was the damn mid-season ender, and the last new episode for what, 3 months. Instead, it was the usual serpent-eating-its-own-tail, running around in circles backstory that Lost has given us so much of for the past season and a half.
 
 
Spaniel
14:52 / 16.11.06
I kind of agree. Compared with Sawyer's the week before it was lackluster. It reinforced some important details about her character, however - stuff which when highlighted helped to reinforce the drama in the present.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
14:55 / 16.11.06
So, the fact that in the present day the episode was basically THE WALL at the end of the approach she's taken to her ENTIRE LIFE so far doesn't factor into your consideration of whether or not that was significant enough to "end" a "season" on? Lindeluse had been saying for a while that the mini-season would end at a critical moment for one of the characters, but I figured that was all bullshit posturing. I didn't think they'd actually have the balls to have the whole six episodes' progession hard-wired into the life experience of one character.
 
 
Spaniel
18:48 / 16.11.06
I didn't say it wasn't appropriate, I think it was, I just think Kate's story could have been a little less flat.

It basically went like this: Kate's in love with guy, Kate's really in love with guy, Kate marries guy, Kate freaks and legs it.

The ending, in terms of what we know about Kate, didn't come as much of a surprise, and I'm fine with that, in that the episode as a whole benefited from where it left her, but the getting there was a little dull. There was very little in the way of dramatic conflict - at least there was very little in the way of conflict that we hadn't seen before - there was very little novelty.
 
 
diz
10:31 / 18.11.06
Back to Lost, though -- a friend tells me he saw an interview with some of the producers the other week, who revealed that they aren't concerned with answering the mysteries of the island; they're more concerned with the characters and their backstories.

That's cute, isn't it? It's good to see they have their priorities straight. This of course gives them free reign to continue making things up off the top of their heads, without any worry about resolution.


I really don't think that they're making as much up as they go along as everyone seems to think, at least not as far as the island mythology goes. I think they know and have known exactly what the deal is with all of the major mysteries, it's the character stuff that they're making up as they go along, which is probably why they're more worried about it.

I don't really even understand the bitching about the mysteries not being resolved, honestly. It feels like most episodes make solid progress, and every so often there's a MASSIVE leap. Besides, once the mysteries are revealed, the show's over. I feel like it's being paced very, very well.

Sun & Jin's flashbacks are usually the most 'rewarding', but I think that's mostly because of the language barrier in the modern day storyline.

But yeah, the last one with Kate seemed fairly pointless.


Hurley's are usually pretty good, too, the one where he was trying to figure out how to distribute the food notwithstanding. Sayid's are good, Eko's were good BEFORE THEY KILLED HIM *sniff*,

Jack and Kate flashbacks tend to piss me off. They've had too many, their lives are too boring, and no one gives a shit. Sawyer should be overexposed at this point, too, but his flashbacks always awesome, because he's fricking Sawyer.

The worst, though, are Charlie's. Holy fucking shit do I hate Charlie flashbacks.

On-island flashbacks a la Michael, Desmond, and Claire are awesome, and the Others' flashbacks are going to rock on toast.
 
 
Corey Waits
05:58 / 19.11.06
The worst, though, are Charlie's. Holy fucking shit do I hate Charlie flashbacks.

Holy fucking shit do I hate Charlie, full stop.

If I ever saw him (well, the actor who plays him) walking down the street, I would punch him in the mouth.

He was alright for most of the first season, but then they turned him into this completely self-involved, whining, juvenile idiot. Take the end of Season 2 for example: the whole hatch just blew up, but Charlie doesn't give a shit about what happened to John, Eko or Desmond 'cause Claire is giving him googy-eyes.
Fuck that.

Anyway, sorry about that, but Diz just gave me an excuse to go off on a rangent (rant-tangent).
 
 
Spaniel
11:29 / 20.11.06
The problem is that Charlie's "googy eyes" may not have been an attempt to depict Charlie as uncaring about Locke and Eko's predicament, or even that he prioritises Claire and Turnip Head (which, you know, might well be reasonable. I know I prioritse my partner and baby over most everything else). The writers may simply have misjudged how some in the audience would read the situation, and been more concerned about bringing some warmth and niceness and closure to the Claire and Charlie arc. Seems entirely plausible to me seeing as we were clearly supposed to read those scenes (beween Claire and Charlie) as joyous and not as Charlie shirking his other responsibilities. Also, surely we could criticise Claire for doing exactly the same thing?

You don't have to like Charlie, but I reckon that's not the best example of his bad behaviour.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
21:19 / 20.11.06
No, that final season 2 scene with Charlie was ridiculous.

"I was just in an explosion that turned the sky purple. How are the other people I was with? Eh. Don't know, don't care."

Charlie clearly had no idea if the other three were safe, and he clearly didn't care.

It was one of the worst scenes I've ever seen on TV.
 
 
Corey Waits
22:20 / 20.11.06
Foust pretty much replied for me, but I'll expand a little:

[...]he prioritises Claire and Turnip Head (which, you know, might well be reasonable. I know I prioritse my partner and baby over most everything else).

I understand what you're saying, but it's obvious that Claire and Turnip Head weren't in any immediate danger (and even if they were he was too busy grinning stupidly to actually check that they weren't hurt). However, Eko and Locke were quite possibly dead or injured and in need assistance, but Charlie couldn't care less.

Also, surely we could criticise Claire for doing exactly the same thing?

Well, Claire had no idea what had just happened in the hatch, or who was missing. She was looking after Turnip Head, so I don't see how she was shirking any responsibilities.

Perhaps you're right. Perhaps the writers or director or editors (whoever made the call) didn't realise how placing those events in that sequence would look to the audience, though I think if they wanted to make us sympathise with Charlie they could have done a far better job.
 
 
Colonel Kadmon
23:12 / 20.11.06
And whatever happened to Dark Charley, back at the start of Season Two? With the drug-addict hoody, and attacking Sun and all that? We're supposed to feel happy that he got back with Claire and the baby after he attacked Sun? WTF?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
00:41 / 21.11.06
Ah, she's just going to shoot him anyway.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
21:44 / 22.11.06
...I kind of got that Charlie seemed so peaceable with Claire at the end of S2 because he didn't actually remember what happened in the hatch, just like Des/Eko/Locke. It sent a chill up my spine, because it just seemed like someone had hit a reset button on him, and watching S3 it seems like Eko, Desmond and Locke don't have any memory of what happened when Des hit the failsafe either, all of them waking up in separate places in the jungle, which bears out the 'memory gap' theory too.

Charlie was near the exit, so he walks out without (any more) scratches. Eko and Locke were closer to the anomaly, and Des was right on top of it, so the effects are more pronounced with them, whatever those effects might be. I don't think Charlie's nonchalance about the events down the hatch were just him being cavalier...
 
 
Spaniel
11:01 / 23.11.06
That's a good point, Hellbunny.

My memory of the last ep is a little vague, tbh, but I take the point that Charlie's ending could be read as "ridiculous". I still think my reading of the writers' intent is on the money, however. That's supposed to be a joyous scene and the culmination of that season's Charlie Claire Turnip arc.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:24 / 23.11.06
Maybe it's just... really bad writing? Like when Sayid suddenly turned up again and said nothing to anyone about his little boat escapade, and we the viewers weren't shown what happened to Sun and Jin either? In the way that characters act on Lost all the time, because if they started acting in a way that actually made any sense, the show might lose some of its plodding, portentous, overblown 'mystique'?

(Don't get me wrong, I <3 some things about Lost. Like Benry. And Desmond. But the idea that any of the characters have any kind of 'arc' that resembles anything other than a compulsive liar's polygraph test result is... liquid nuts.)
 
 
Spaniel
18:25 / 23.11.06
I think the bad writing thing is equally if not more plausible. See my post above.
 
 
Corey Waits
21:13 / 23.11.06
Yeah, I think you're probably right Hellbunny. But the main problem was that at the time we didn't have John & Desmond's experiences to compare Charlie's with.

So, after the fact it does make sense, but at the time it was simply portrayed poorly by the writers.
Full marks to both Boboss and Hellbunny ;)
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
09:15 / 24.11.06
seems as if the reset button pushed at end of season two wiped boboss' memory too, eh! memory a bit vague n all that . . .

I think Hellbunny's got it right.

have enjoyed watching this mini season - was well pissed off over death of Eko, lapped up the locke flashback, quite enjoyed 'glass balerina' too. finding sawyer and kate increasingly laughable (they're not into eachother, nobody watching believes they're into each other either, do they?)

henry's a treat. other others and the way they're being unfolded, less so.

actually 'felt' for jack for first time ever, during his divorce/dadfight flashback.

probably said already: this island is the one from watchmen.
 
 
Spaniel
11:04 / 24.11.06
I've felt for Jack this season too. Weird, innit.

Historically Jack's me least favourite character.

Can I just take a quick straw poll? Who out there thinks Dom Monaghan (sp?) is a bad actor?
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
13:52 / 24.11.06
not as bad as the one who plays kate. not as good as the one who plays locke. or hurley.

probably about equal with the one who plays desmond.

but then I thought the one who played ana lucia was great.

all I really know is that henry's a cross between spacey and peter lorre.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
20:04 / 25.11.06
I think Dom's a good actor actually. A crappy actor couldn't have sold that "I'm going to sprout wings" crack from Season Two.
 
 
Spaniel
17:54 / 26.11.06
I think he's pretty good at playing Charlie, whether that makes him a good actor or not is debatable.

I ask because lots of people I talk to seem to think he's shit and I'm not entirely sure why.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
10:35 / 13.12.06
An interesting point... not sure whether anyone here's picked up on it (why is there only one thread for six seasons?! Talk about unwieldy...). There's kind of an unspoken assumption amongst fans and, I think, the characters that the Others are the remnants of the Dharma Initiative. Jack even says this to Juliet in the first episode of the new season, seeking confirmation. However, when he introduces himself to Jack properly for the first time, Ben Linus says he's lived on this island all his life, which implies (if he's telling the truth) that he was born there. He's, what, in his mid-forties, and the Dharma orientation tapes are dated 1980. We know it's 2004 currently on the island. Does this mean that Ben's been living on the island 20 years longer than the Dharma research stations have been active? Are the orientation tapes fake or the date a red herring? Or is he lying to Jack, which given his history is quite likely, but also very boring?
 
 
Mouse
11:44 / 13.12.06
There's no reason Dharma couldn't have been active on the island before those orientation movies were made, is there?
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
13:30 / 13.12.06
also, ben said something to juliet along the lines of, 'you didn't cook for me blah etc.' leading me to beleive that Ben came to ther island later than some of the others.

and then became their leader.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
02:25 / 21.12.06
I confess I've only read one TPB of Ex Machina, so I can't say personally what i think of this... how about you all, though? Do you like that Brian K. Vaughn has joined the LOST writing staff? Potential to be good?
 
  

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