BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Lost (US thread)

  
  

Page: 1 ... 3031323334(35)3637383940... 52

 
 
iamus
11:53 / 14.10.06
However, it tells us about who she was ~ are you still defined in your adult choices by how you responded to your dad accusing you of something, at age seven?

Specifically, I think it relates to her relationship with the authority figure of her father, the hold he has over her, the fear she has for him and how that impacts on her relationship with her husband (Who is being groomed to succeed him).
 
 
miss wonderstarr
16:35 / 14.10.06
Lost episodes are always, first and foremost, character pieces.

I think if I approached the series that way, I'd be disappointed less often. But do you think it's generally promoted (and understood) that way? The previews are all about exciting plot developments. Maybe it is strongest on character ~ maybe in a way it's all about character ~ but I think it's presented as a thriller, for the most part.
 
 
Spaniel
17:15 / 14.10.06
I think that's true, but it is about the characters.

I'm not sure how closely you've followed this thread, MW, but a few pages back there was a discussion around the fact that the show's trailers are put together by the network and not the shows creators. That might go some way to explaining the discrepancy.

I think it does cause some problems for the viewing audience.
 
 
Spaniel
17:16 / 14.10.06
I will now bow out. I'm not gonna start watching this season until we're quite some way into the mid season hiatus. I wanna watch this one without any month long gaps.
 
 
Olulabelle
17:18 / 14.10.06
And I'm guessing that we all pretty much know what the Others are about at this stage?

I don't. (I don't think.) Red Concrete, tell me what you mean.
 
 
CameronStewart
18:10 / 14.10.06
>>>Lost episodes are always, first and foremost, character pieces.<<<

Sure, but that doesn't mean that the only way to develop character is through flashbacks - it's quite possible to create depth of character in the PRESENT.

The flashbacks are played. out. I wish they'd drop them but it's unlikely.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
18:11 / 14.10.06
I'm especially tired of flashbacks involving Kate.

We. Get. It.
 
 
Olulabelle
18:13 / 14.10.06
I like the flashbacks and I don't think they took obver the show in this episode. In the past I have t hought that, for example when they were in the process of opening the hatch but for about three episodes all we saw was flashbacks, but this episode had a happy balance of both plot and flashback.
 
 
Red Concrete
18:21 / 14.10.06
Lula, I was extrapolating from what I heard at the link in this post here particularly - that the Others are perverted descendents of the failed Dharma initiative, still trying to prevent some sort of future world-destroying event, specifically by an on-going attempt to change certain "core factors" by manipulating the environment. (whatever that means)

I see that I could be wrong...
 
 
iamus
18:34 / 14.10.06
I'm still liking the flashbacks myself, but I think the thing with them is that they're playing a function that's not yet fully apparent. It's been noted in interviews with Cuse and Lindeloff that they're aware of negative opinion toward them, but they're not going anywhere because it's integral to the story they're telling.

Me? Well there's been that Others talk of 'Good' and 'Bad' Losties, which ones to take and which ones to leave. I think that's a big part of the flashback's relevance. Who they were before the island is of as much importance as who they are while they're on it.


I think if I approached the series that way, I'd be disappointed less often.

That's what works for me. Even if the island story is on a very slow drip (though to be honest, the torturous pace is one of the things I like about it) you're getting brand new info about the various characters every week. No matter what happening storywise on the island, it's always framed by the experience of specific characters.

To me, Sun and Jin are two of the best on the show, so I'm always glad to have an episode from their point of view.

-----

Also good to bear in mind that it's been said that there was originaly only enough material in the story for three seasons, but the network has stretched the run and they've had to generate filler. I think C + L have said they want it to finish season 5 at the latest, but that decision may be out of their hands. That's probably to blame for a lot of the criticism that the show is getting.

I may be way wrong, but I've always felt that Lost knows exactly where it's going but it staggers a bit like a drunk trying to get there.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:06 / 14.10.06
I'm not sure how closely you've followed this thread, MW, but a few pages back there was a discussion around the fact that the show's trailers are put together by the network and not the shows creators. That might go some way to explaining the discrepancy.

I avoided the thread for a while because I was watching on Channel 4. I'm now downloading in tune with the US broadcasts, so I am back on it.

That's an interesting point, but then again... the episodes clearly do build up towards the arc-end in terms of plot advancement and sensational set-pieces. Season 2 did climax with the final countdown, with fuse-delayed dynamite, with fireballs and electro-storms apparently taking out Locke and Eko, with the belated (and doomed) counterstrike from Jack's "army", with the kidnapping and possible execution of Kate, Jack and Sawyer, with our first sighting of Walt for ages, as well as a clear view of the Others (and the confirmation, finally, that Henry is one of them).

No matter who compiles the previews, the series did have a sense of building up to a dramatic, action-packed climax. The creators clearly do have half an eye out for plot development and present-day narrative.

True, I'm sure, that the preview for 3.2 might have focused solely on Sawyer's fight and the kiss, rather than Sun's flashback, which would indeed have been misleading in terms of that episode's tone and pacing.

I guess the point may be that the creators have half an eye on present-day plot, and the previews suggest that's all next week's show will be about.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
21:10 / 14.10.06
another reason why the show's overall arc is primarily concerned with characters (and that it's the way your focus should be directed) is that since day one, the Others have always been about who's "Bad" and who's "Good." I think the reason for the flashbacks is mostly to connect the dots with the Other's agenda. I always go back to Goodwin's chat with Ana-Lucia about her not being a good person and their focus on children - innocents. Jack, Sawyer, and Kate might seem to be the most redeemable people in their eyes...people with potential to fit their own idea of "Good," but who have done "Bad" things in their lives. All of the Hanso/Dharma stuff we've seen to date has to do with achieving human potential through psychological and scientific means...

The character stuff and the "island" stuff are highly related...more so than might seem in any given episode.
 
 
Olulabelle
00:12 / 15.10.06
Did you know about the theory that all of the LOST numbers relate to Manhattan parks? If you look at Google maps for example and type in Manhattan NY you can see that on every street relating to a LOST number there is a park. For the lazy amongst you I have listed them here:

42nd street you find Bryant Park,
23rd find Madison Square Park,
16th and 15th find Union Square,
8th is Tompkins Square Park
and
4th is Washington Square Park.

Chin strokingly interesting don't you think?
 
 
Triplets
14:50 / 15.10.06
Does New York have a lot of parks?
 
 
Tom Coates
07:09 / 16.10.06
My assumption has always been that the Flashbacks are where the main story is being told, and that the island stuff is really just about the various survivors gradually figuring out what will become clear to us through the flashbacks. Unfortunately I've become increasingly irritable with the flashbacks. Sometimes they're great, but often they do seem to be just background filler with the odd vague hint. At least the plot on the island has started getting up some speed.
 
 
Olulabelle
07:19 / 16.10.06
Triplets, not that many. In fact hardly any on other streets. Look at google maps and you can clearly see there aren't loads.
 
 
Mouse
15:02 / 17.10.06
I think my deal with the flashbacks is that if they're about a character I have no real interest in, I feel like skipping all the flashback sections. I don't though, because I worry I'll miss something important.

You'd think I'd learn.

---

However, I like all the coincidences with peoples' flashbacks over lapping. Some of them seem far too contrived, but I still like them.
 
 
gridley
14:34 / 19.10.06
Locke was so much more interesting as a character when he was just a war game-playing, no life having, middle aged nerd working in a box factory who became the warrior-shaman he always wanted to be upon being cured by the island.

All these efforts to make his past retroactively cool (he was betrayed by his longlost millionaire dad! he used to work in the drug trade!) just make him less interesting to me.

Still it was nice to see the rest of the cast again.
 
 
tickspeak
15:42 / 19.10.06
Um, did I miss something or was the flashback story left completely unresolved last night? And did they introduce 2 new characters in the last 30 seconds (Mildly Dashing Dark-Haired Guy and Another Blonde Girl)? And why couldn't we get just a little peek of Desmond's no-doubt fine fine ass when he's throwing rocks or whatever in his nightshirt?
 
 
gridley
15:44 / 19.10.06
The flashback ended with Locke letting the kid go. We never saw the repercussions.
 
 
buttergun
15:49 / 19.10.06
Everyone, am I insane or was the gruff guy who ran the marijuana compound in Locke's flashback the same guy who, in the present narrative, is one of the Others -- the one who dressed up like a pirate in the Season 1 finale, who was revealed to be some sort of scientist in Claire's flashback last year, etc? Was that the same guy/actor?
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
15:56 / 19.10.06
That was not Chris Mulkey, I'm sorry to say.
 
 
buttergun
16:07 / 19.10.06
Well, I was kinda tired. Who was the actor? Anyone know his name, so I can check IMDB? I'd like to see where I know him from.

Anyway, I thought last night's episode was a return to form. Good to see Boone again...who really is more interesting dead than he was alive. Plus he pretty much looks like Brandon Lee in the Crow now. I kept expecting him to say, "It can't rain ALL the time, Locke."

Maybe it's just me, but I thought Locke working in a dope factory was pretty damn cool. But again the backstory didn't do much except belabor a point already well established -- Locke is a bad father figure for young men of all walks of life. From the cop in the flashback to Boone to now Charlie (?), we get it. However the island narrative was pretty cool, and I'm sure fans will be theorizing all over the place about Locke's out-there dream sequence.

Desmond as a sort of future-seer is a cool touch, so hopefully that will take us in interesting directions.

One other thing...having read Daniel Pinchbeck's "Breaking Open the Head," I STILL have no idea what sort of concoction Locke put together to drug himself into his smokehouse trip. Anyone have any ideas?
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
16:08 / 19.10.06
Um, the actor's name is Chris Mulkey. He was in Twin Peaks.
 
 
buttergun
16:44 / 19.10.06
Oh, I see. When you wrote "that was not chris mulkey," I didn't know if you meant the guy last night, or the Other pirate/scientist guy. Thanks!
 
 
NewMyth
04:03 / 20.10.06
While I enjoyed last nite's episode, later thoughts struck me re questionable incidents, from the "Lost Gotta Overly-Complicate Things Effect:"

Locke's sweat lodge was cool, but was it really necessary plotwise? Couldn't he & Charlie simply have found Eko's cane with blood on it, and the polar bear fur, and bear tracks... and figure out Eko might need rescuing... But then we couldn't have had all that weirdness. Though Charlie's comment about Locke "...turning into a monkey," reference to Altered States was smile-worthy.

Also: okay, the undercover agent operation was probably due to the purchase of large amounts of fertilizer possibly people planning a Waco -- but once he saw the greenhouse he could figure out they were growing pot. Did he really have to "infiltrate" them and "gather evidence" for SIX WEEKS? Couldn't he sneak around the greenhouse one night, then call in the ATF guys with his cellphone?
Again: to me, taking a really long route to show us a bit of Locke's character.

And regarding tickspeak’s question about seeing a couple new faces: Our creators painted themselves into a bit of a corner -- the only regulars left at the camp for Hurley to report to were Claire and...? Rose and Bernard could have been there... Otherwise, the main cast were all occupied with the Other’s, and recovering from the Hatch incident. At least some of the extras got a few lines, but I think it weakened the dramatic impact.

Regarding Buttergum’s question about Locke’s concoction -- try saying that 3 times aloud -- I assume it would be something like ayahuasca, in the family of tryptamine hullucinogens, or DMT. Per Terence McKenna there are many admixtures. Ayahuasca is cooked, I believe, then ingested orally. I guess mushrooms would do the job too.

P.S. A weird synchronicity of two commercials during Lost: One for a Tony Scott movie “Deja Vu,” then another one about a new tv series, “Day Break” about a character experiencing deja vu -- capped off with Hurley's reference to deja vu re Desmond...! It was deja vu all over again.
 
 
Olulabelle
06:17 / 20.10.06
I STILL have no idea what sort of concoction Locke put together to drug himself into his smokehouse trip. Anyone have any ideas?

Well I don't know, but Mediaman, it was never Ayahuasca!

The Beautiful Man and I have been theorising since seeing the episope and we can't work it out either.

Gooey: you can scoop it/lick it, it acts instantly...hmmm.
 
 
iamus
10:24 / 20.10.06
Locke's sweat lodge was cool, but was it really necessary plotwise?

He's getting his spirituality back, returning to the island-mystic-hunter guy that he was in season one before that whole hatch/crisis detour. He'll be giving people head wounds and smearing drug paste on them in no time.
 
 
buttergun
13:49 / 20.10.06
I really enjoyed the dream sequence, if for nothing else than Boone summing up why Sayid's the best character on the show:

"I think Sayid's got it."
 
 
Mouse
14:27 / 20.10.06
Otherwise, the main cast were all occupied with the Other’s, and recovering from the Hatch incident. At least some of the extras got a few lines, but I think it weakened the dramatic impact.But it also shows that the survivors' "leaders" are all otherwise occupied/captured, thus emphasizing how important those characters are to the group as a whole. Claire, Hurley, Rose, and Bernard are hardly the action go-getters who can fix this mess. It showed Locke's importance to them.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
22:33 / 20.10.06
But again the backstory didn't do much except belabor a point already well established -- Locke is a bad father figure for young men of all walks of life. From the cop in the flashback to Boone to now Charlie (?), we get it.

Exactly how I feel about last week's, and this week's flashback.

I did like the way the dream sequence was shot, though: the variations in speed, the shifts in location and lighting, and that kind of jerky, over-cranked effect. Familiar devices from contemporary horror I suppose, and they will all look, with future hindsight, like late-90s early-00s cliche ways of representing hallucinations, but I did actually feel it captured something of what it's like to hallucinate: the ultra-realism of it, the way it all seems so deadly serious and apparently-acceptable even if something utterly weird is going on.
 
 
iamus
00:51 / 22.10.06
You know, I don't think this was anything at all to do with Locke's father-figure issues. It's about how easily the man is manipulated, and how it twists him up and turns everything good in his life to shite, ruining his relationships with those around him.

It's his struggle for empowerment, the man he is and the man he dreams of being. Also take into account last season, where he believes he's being manipulated with the button-pushing, rebels, and fucks things up royally. That's Locke's major demon.

I can't actually see where the father-figure thing is coming from. It doesn't have any grounding in the flashbacks. He was manipulated by his father, he was manipulated by someone who played on these same insecurities. Both instances cost him the closest things he had to family. Now he has a new family and is wary of the same thing happening again.
 
 
iamus
00:52 / 22.10.06
I really don't think either this week or last week's flashbacks reiterated anything.

They expanded on stuff.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
09:41 / 22.10.06
There is truth in that, but I think you can expand something until it almost snaps. Locke was originally a frustrated war-gamer with an equally-frustrating disability, working in a box-making company with a horrible young boss, wasn't he? And it totally worked when he was released onto the Island, able to use his legs and become the hunter-warrior he'd (as I remember) only fantasised about being before.

Yes, "realistically" a man of Locke's age could have had all manner of experiences and gone through all kinds of life-changes in the years before he caught the flight, but ~ and this comes back to what I was discussing re. Andy Millman in "Extras" ~ while it's plausible that a real person could have had that drama with his fake dad and the kidney, and then lived on a commune with a secret cop agent trying to bust a drugs greenhouse, as well as the box company stuff we saw originally, it seems to me to dilute the character. As a character, Locke made sense in Season One. I've read complaints on TWOP that after he became a fan-favorite, the producers spent Season Two trying to undermine him, making him a failure (because as a fan-fave, he took the spotlight off Jack and Kate). It seems to me that all this ever-expanding backstory baggage around Locke is not making him a richer character ~ it's making his fictional life seem less coherent. I'm suggesting maybe (as with Millman) that there's a limit of "complexity" you can stuff into a character before it reads to me like inconsistency, contradiction, confusion and, frankly, lack of a clue in the writing.
 
 
diz
00:26 / 24.10.06
PS. I watched Lost just after Heroes, and on one a character said "FYI" out loud, and on another, "OMG"!

"FYI" is not an internet abbreviation. It's a real life expression which predates the internet. People have always said it aloud.

I'm especially tired of flashbacks involving Kate.

We. Get. It.

In general, I am so beyond tired about flashbacks involving Jack or Charlie. I so could not give a shit about either one of their pasts anymore. I wasn't terribly into Ana Lucia's flashbacks, either.

However, I love and look forward to flashbacks about Hurley, and Locke, and Sun, and Mr. Eko, and Sawyer. I loved Desmond's flashback as well as Rose and Bernard's. Supposedly, Libby's backstory is supposedly going to be told incrementally through other people's flashbacks throughout Season Three, and I'm looking forward to that. Also, as much as I want to be done with Jack's flashbacks, I am desperately looking forward to the flashback that explains Jack's time in Phuket and his tattoos.

I like the way the flashbacks are structured into the show, and I think it would be a serious mistake to get rid of them entirely. However, I think some characters are more interesting than others, and I hate the fact that certain characters (especially Jack) get flashbacks with a frequency that seems to have more to do with their perceived star status on the show than how interesting their backstories actually are. I am also happy that a few episodes last season didn't have pre-island flashbacks at all ("The Other 48 Days," "Maternity Leave," "Three Minutes"), and I'd be happy to see that trend continue.

another reason why the show's overall arc is primarily concerned with characters (and that it's the way your focus should be directed) is that since day one, the Others have always been about who's "Bad" and who's "Good." I think the reason for the flashbacks is mostly to connect the dots with the Other's agenda

Another good point. Trying to figure out what the Others are looking for in someone on their lists (if indeed they are looking for anything at all and not simply playing mind games) from the known backstories of people on their lists is a maddening puzzle and one of the chief joys of the show for me right now.

Chin strokingly interesting don't you think?

Possibly. I think the 23 and 42 were included as pretty obvious references (23 from, well, all the 23 stuff, and 42 as the answer to the question of the meaning of life, the universe, and everything from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy), so I'm skeptical.
 
  

Page: 1 ... 3031323334(35)3637383940... 52

 
  
Add Your Reply