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Lost (US thread)

 
  

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Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
13:48 / 13.10.06
I get the feeling (more with the couple of S3 episodes, but also at times in S2) that the writers have completely lost the plot.

My theory involves them scanning message boards and at some point midway through the first season somebody somewhere figured it out, and the writers panicked.

Now they sit around in meetings saying things like "Ok gang, what completely bat shit insane idea can we throw in here, praying we get cancelled before we need to wrap it all up?"
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
14:05 / 13.10.06
I still say it won't last after the 4th season. Again, Twin Peaks, people.

There's only so much weird shit people like to endure before they throw their hands up and say, "Hell with this."

And I'm not talking about us. I know we like the weird shit. I'm talking about your average American viewer.
 
 
buttergun
15:35 / 13.10.06
What infuriates me most of all is the "half-step forward, three steps back" approach they CONTINUE to follow.

So we've finally met the Others face-to-face. Great! But have we learned ANYTHING about them? Nope -- we just get Sawyer and Kate working on the chain gang while the Others trade mysterious quips.

Instead, we spend the majority of Episode 2 LEARNING THAT SUN LIES. We already know this! We learned this in Season 1...when she could speak English but hid it from her husband! A full episode devoted to this...when we haven't even learned the fates of Eko, Locke, Michael, etc...

It's this sort of junk that gets my blood boiling. It's like the producers are so confident their show will be successful, they think they can string us along and play little games forever.

But this isn't Season 1. We're three seasons deep now; it's time to start answering questions. And not answering questions with more questions, either.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
16:15 / 13.10.06
*hits head against wall*

Did you miss all the awesome stuff?

Sayid "I'LL TAKE TWO AND KILL THE REST" - Sawyer basically being Wolverine but y'know, cooler. "You taste of fish biscuit", "Chain gang looks good on you". Action, romance!

Honestly I don't really know what you're all complaning about, except for the show not continually being exactly what you want it to be. But this show is Lost. And this is what Lost is - like it or not - so please let's not be surprised about it. I'm not saying don't like it - go right ahead, I just don't understand throwing criticism like that at this show, as if you just want it to be something else. It's like trying to force a plane off course (hoho!) or something, but if you decide to take that journey why not just enjoy the ride to where yr going? They have arcs plotted out for five seasons (and if ever they do get in to trouble, it wll be because the show is so popular that the network demands more, which wouldn't be planned) or something, yeah? It's a slow burn! You know, intentional like!

Also, complaining about how it's all set up and nothing is ever resolved but then saying in the same post that you would stay for the good writing is... well, baffling really. Obsessing on the mystery and WHERE ARE THE ANSWERS just seems to be self defeating with watching this show (and I admit it is frustrating and I like to shout at the characters, it's part of the fun) but giving the writers a little faith and trusting where they take it seems more enjoyable to me, and then I get to enjoy the story in between rather than constantly grumbling about what it's not, y'know?

Please Benjamin. We need you. I need you.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
16:20 / 13.10.06
Calm down, Suedey.

I'm still watching the show, aren't I? Even if it is beginning to believe its own cleverness.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
16:23 / 13.10.06
I'm calm, I just don't UNDERSTAND.

Also the Others FACADE of KNOWLEDGE totally cracked and Sun SHOT HER UP. See, my posts about Lost are written like comic book captions where every other WORD is in BOLD because I like to EMPHASISE.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
16:31 / 13.10.06
Yeah, but basically an hour of Sun's lies? We knew that already and didn't really need the elaboration.

Truthfully? I liked the Others better when I didn't know what they were all about. Watching them be revealed is just so...anti-climactic.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
16:44 / 13.10.06
I'm totally with Suedey about the complaining regarding the show.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
16:54 / 13.10.06
I love all you kids but I'm going back to my original determination to avoid any and all outside discussion of the show. It's just too damn exhausting. If I did this, then I would end up talking about nothing else.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
18:19 / 13.10.06
Let me put it this way.

If LOST were a novel, I would have tossed it down in anger by now, because the pay off at this point is going to be so far from what I think that it isn't worth the journey for me.

I do, however, still watch LOST in spite of the fact that by the end of some episodes I am livid with the writers, not for the content, but for snails pace they do everything in.

At the end of season 1 I was totally stoked for season 2. I figured that they had done an entire season of character developement and now the show was going to get meaty. I was looking for major revelations and plot development. What they gave us was a few tidbits of plot to speculate over and more character development. I have no problem with a character driven story, and I like the characters in this series so I watch it.

The problem is not that this is a character driven story, it is that it moves at the pace of a soap opera, but is only on once a week.

There are 2 things I fear about the show, one is that they will be cancelled because people get pissed off and stop watching, the other is that the show will never be cancelled and get more and more convoluted when the makers realize they can milk this for years (see: The X-Files).

I fear for LOST: The Movie.
 
 
buttergun
19:03 / 13.10.06
>>Also, complaining about how it's all set up and nothing is ever resolved but then saying in the same post that you would stay for the good writing is... well, baffling really.<<

Any more baffling then some of the decisions the producers have chosen in the course of this show? (IE, as mentioned above, concentrating for a full episode on Sun, detailing things we already know, instead of focusing on characters we STILL don't know the fates of...like Locke, Eko, and Michael...as if the producers are just saying, "hey, screw you guys...we'll get there when we get there." And sure, they CAN do that, but how long until the viewers can't stands no more?)

Anyway, what I wrote isn't baffling. What I meant by "quality of writing" is just the stuff you pointed out in your post, ie Sayid's "I'll kill them all except two," line, the moments between characters, basically the character moments. So for that, yes, I enjoy the writing. But that's the micro level. When I look at the macro level, it's just not coming together. It's like an endless tease, an endless dry-hump.

I'm also not one of those who dislike the show because it's no longer the same. On the contrary, I am getting fed up with the show because it's TRYING to be like the first season. Just like last year, when the Tail-ies were introduced and we backtracked to catch up with them, we're now backtracking with the Others. Soon enough we'll have episodes in which nothing happens in the "main" narrative, with the majority of the episode given over to backstories about Henry Gale and the "other Others."

That's fine, sure...but how about we get some answers about our MAIN characters first?

The first season worked because they could set up this huge mystery of the island, get our interest piqued, and then delve into backstories. Then they made it even cooler by having the Lost-ers be connnected in mysterious ways in their pre-island lives. But now the coolness has worn off. We get it. It's time to call some bluffs and move forward with the narrative. Unfortunately the producers don't seem willing to do so.

I'll put it this way...that hour-long recap of Season 2 they showed before this season began? It doesn't say damn much for the macro-level of the writing when a whole season can be condensed into ONE HOUR.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
19:04 / 13.10.06
If LOST were a novel, I would have tossed it down in anger by now, because the pay off at this point is going to be so far from what I think that it isn't worth the journey for me.

If LOST were a novel, we would be on page 200 of a 500 page book. Would you really be fed up by that point? That feels right for where we are in the story to me.
 
 
Triplets
19:12 / 13.10.06
All we know is, people who don't use the internet much may stop watching for those reasons but at least we won't have to fucking hear about it every Wednesday at 9:01pm, hey?

Straight dope.

Love, DHARMA.
 
 
Red Concrete
19:38 / 13.10.06
I didn't know that Sun had slept with that bald fellow. Did I miss something in previous seasons? I thought it was a good exploration of how Sun's relationship with Jin has more history than I thought, and she's a tougher cookie, certainly than I thought. I'll be interested to see how they ended up in Australia...

I'm with Kali, I should not be posting about it... but I thought that episode was gripping all the way through. Sawyer's bravado, the reappearance of Rousseaus' kid, the macho idiocy of Jin and Sayid sitting in trees staring at pitch-black jungle through binoculars, while the worst-case scenario plays out behind their backs... And I'm guessing that we all pretty much know what the Others are about at this stage?

What we don't know is why they're particularly interested in Jack, Kate and Sawyer. They're the characters that were most popular from previous seasons, yes? And not necessarily ones that have always been part of an overarching 5-season "plan"? (I understand Jack was originally scripted to die in the pilot) I wonder if we're part of some interactive scripting here?
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
20:14 / 13.10.06
But Keith, if I was told I could only read 20 pages per week it would be a different story.
 
 
iamus
22:30 / 13.10.06
Fuckin' MTV......... grumble grumble......

I'm with Suedey on this one.
 
 
NewMyth
23:17 / 13.10.06
I think that most of the criticisms here are constructive. If the show wasn't so interesting and involving, I doubt that most of us would give a sh*t, and go watch something else. What is there to say about the CSI shows, Law & Orders, etc.? But with Lost...

To me, Lost's moments of brilliance far out weight its flaws.
 
 
Triplets
23:40 / 13.10.06
Criticism is fine, good criticism best. What rubs me wrong is the "I'm finished with this show!!!23!", because a) it's always from people who post it every other episode and b) who cares? But, if you feel the need to shout your severing of ties from the treetops, then plzplzppl back it up with some strong, nonfanwank reasons.
 
 
Triplets
23:43 / 13.10.06
Nonfanwank here being, as Suedey points out, the show not being your personal, branetape version of the show.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
00:00 / 14.10.06
Triplets, I haven't stopped watching it. I merely posit the opinion that this Russian nesting doll method of telling the story will be its death-knell. Why? Because while you and I appreciate the way it's told, the average viewer will grow impatient after a time then viewing numbers will drop. (This is a culture that devours horrible reality and game shows with a passion so forgive me if I'm still a bit surprised at Lost's success.) I'm afraid that when this happens Lindehof and Co. will be forced to wrap loose ends sloppily and we will all lose.
 
 
Triplets
02:27 / 14.10.06
Triplets, I haven't stopped watching it. I merely posit the opinion that this Russian nesting doll method of telling the story will be its death-knell. Why? Because while you and I appreciate the way it's told, the average viewer will grow impatient after a time then viewing numbers will drop.

You have a point that a multi-layered shows don't, generally, do brilliantly in the long run. Was about to say "look at last few seasons of the X-Files" when I remembered that was down to the writing being a bit shit.

Admittedly, I can't recall off top a show like Lost except for Alias (by the same guy, yeah?) and that did alright to the end didn't it? But, then, I don't really feel there's been a show like Lost on telly before. Lost is going into fairly virgin territory in regards to long-haul serial television plotting.

(This is a culture that devours horrible reality and game shows with a passion so forgive me if I'm still a bit surprised at Lost's success.)

I'm not sure this gives audiences in the UK and America enough credit. People still like originality and novelty. Game and reality shows offer a comforting, even if it tastes like the 400th plate of crackers after a while.

I wouldn't be suprised if The Writers added game show elements with Sawyer already starring on Monkey Want A Banana and Jack, apparently, trying to win 1st class tickets to America. You may be Lost but you've Found some fabulous prizes!

I'm afraid that when this happens Lindehof and Co. will be forced to wrap loose ends sloppily and we will all lose.

If that doesn't happen anyway, of course. I think you have some valid points c/o audience attention span but I think the show might suprise you in the long run. Imagine Lost like a rollercoaster, I have a feeling we're still clacking slowly up towards the big (exciting) drop.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
02:48 / 14.10.06
I hope so, Triplets, I really do. But I still feel strong in my conviction that the average audience will still taper away their interest.

Ex., people whom I know to be the exact opposite from my interest in the show's innerworkings telling me--no prompt from me, they know I like it and they know I don't like to talk about it--"That thing with the Others? I don't care about them! I want to know what's going on!"

I hear them, I really do. I get it. Don't we all want to know who killed Mr. Body?

But they have a point. Red herrings and sleight of hand have their place and I am more than willing to play that game. But THEY will not. And yes, I will fucking generalise in that sense.

I want the public to have that obsession with the show in their brains. I do. But I'm sorry, I don't believe they can. I honestly believe once the "novelty" wears off then you and I are going to get hosed.
 
 
buttergun
03:29 / 14.10.06
>>Admittedly, I can't recall off top a show like Lost except for Alias (by the same guy, yeah?) and that did alright to the end didn't it?<<

Do you mean commercially or critically? Because either way -- no, it didn't do alright to the end.

In fact ratings were so low for Alias that it was taken from the schedule for a while. Not only that, but ABC pretty much stopped advertising for it until the final few episodes.

As for the entertainment value of the show, it too dwindled so far that only a core following remained in those final days. Luckily, Lost has yet to veer into the depths of mediocrity and banality that Alias did in its final seasons...episodes ripe with some of the dumbest shit I've ever seen in TV, outside of Saturday morning cartoon shows (ie characters dying one episode, only to return the next, clones upon clones, previously-unknown sisters appearing out of the depths, foretold by ancient prophecies, and my personal favorite -- an ordinary cell phone working from a grave, six feet beneath the ground; my fucking cell phone won't even work in my living room!).
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
04:20 / 14.10.06
PHEW!

Sorry I'm late, Suedy.

YOU ARE ALL CRAZY.

Suede was totally spot on. The reason that "Ballerina" was so exquisitely dope was because Sawyer stepped out of the pages of New fucking X-Men. Oh that hackneyed "I gotta kiss you, you pantiless lady you" shit? PSYCHE. He was Scott fucking Summers and Logan rolled into one, representing the craftiness for ALL the convicts in the house. And it was absolutely radical. This was the Sawyer and Kate that were so painfully absent when they were cutting each others hair and playing cards and SNOOZE SNOOZE I AM SO TOTALLY ASLEEP HERE. We saw a flash of it when Kate turned the tables on them in the Seaso Finalo and now it's full blast.

And Juliet? Logan could smell the badass on her. SO BEST. (Because she is totally my new favorite character.)

Basically, these are the same first two episodes we got last year, only flipped in quality. Last year's Seaso Primo was one of the best episodes in the series, so it's tough to follow up on. Sawyer and Michael on the raft was easily one of the worst, so it's tough to NOT beat.

But Sun and Jin's story is always more engaging than Michael's ("Aw, dang, 'cause, you know, I love my son--" SNOOZE SNORE I AM STILL TOTALLY ASLEEP HERE.). Sayid is always a badass (even though his boat plan was fucking idiotic). Red Sox. A much better second episode.

And hooooly cow, Benjamin (!!!!OMFGWTFLOLIKNOWWHATI'MBEINGFORHALLOWEEN) Linus is so dope. Just his delivery when Jack doesn't buy it. "No seriously. Come on, man." Ah, Beej, you just keep eatin' cereal and watchin' monitors and fucking with people's heads. I LOVE YOU, MAN.

And, hello, TRIXIE IS ON THE ISLAND. You can all stop watching, I could care less as long as they keep populating the show with actors from Magnolia and Deadwood (exclusively, if they want).

And not to mention, uh, hello, next week? Eko? Locke? Monster? Desmond? Hurley?

So, yeah, go ahead, stop watching. You'll be so totally missed when the show raises the stakes again in a few days. And then the week after that.

I find, truly, that life is much more enjoyable when you experience the things you like, and ignore the things you don't.

Lost is one of the funnest and most craftily done rides in television history. It's not The Wire. It's not The Deadwood. It's a supremely well acted, gorgeously shot Stephen King novel. It's clear that this is something some of you are not at all interested in. Why do you keep (basically) drinking pee-pee, then? It tastes terrible and you don't like it! Watch a DVD or something! It's not like one of those situations where you have no water and you have to drink your own pee-pee. There's literally fresh water ALL OVER THE PLACE.

Anyway.

Yeah, Lost still rules, as hard as it ever did. It makes me happy all the time. I don't get what is wrong with you people, but, naturally, you're all entitled to your opinion. And it doesn't in anyway impinge on the incalculable levels of enjoyment I get out of the show. So, you know, carry on.

How'd I do, Suede-man?

LOST!
 
 
buttergun
04:42 / 14.10.06
>>But Sun and Jin's story is always more engaging than Michael's ("Aw, dang, 'cause, you know, I love my son--" SNOOZE SNORE I AM STILL TOTALLY ASLEEP HERE.).<<

Did he wake you up when he wasted Ana-Lucia?


You know, I keep seeing it repeated on here that those of us who are criticizing the show are saying we're going to stop watching, etc. I've never said that, and I don't think anyone else has said that. In fact, I've said I WILL continue to watch the show, because I still enjoy it -- despite my unhappiness with the way they continue to draw us out.

I mean yeah, sure, Sawyer's a bad-ass and all...but let's see him do something. It's like every season he has some misfortune which keeps him out of the picture -- last year he was near death after being shot, and this year he's stuck in a cage.

There will come a time when the tough-guy dialog and cutesy quips won't cut it anymore.

Another thing...those of us who do have criticisms...we aren't just bashing the show with a grudge. Yet these responses make it sound like we are. Also claiming they're "fannish" arguments, etc. Which of course has no grounding in reality. Instead, makes it seems like our posts are just being glanced at, not read full through. I repeat, I do like the show, even still. However, I am not "fannish" enough that I have a slavish devotion to it, and also my criticisms are not grounded in some nerdish wish to see the show play out just how I want it...I agree, I think the plot is so scattered now that there is no "one" way to tie up these loose ends. And I fear most of them never will be.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
04:58 / 14.10.06
I see what you're saying. I seriously have the same reaction when people use terms like "slavish reaction" to describe the fact that the someone just likes enjoying things.

And Sawyer didn't just talk tough this week. He rocked it QUITELY JACKET STYLE.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
07:31 / 14.10.06
I continue to watch Lost firstly because I've put in two seasons' investment now, which is a great wedge of time to commit to TV by my standards (not to mention looking up the associated ARG style sites and cross-referencing with wiki entries just to understand them). Secondly because I don't think there is a lot of "fresh water" around if I decide the show is "pee pee". I'm not impressed by most contemporary television. Some of it, I admitted on another thread, I just haven't given enough of a chance to, but that's because "watching" a show these days means giving up so much of your life to massive story arcs and, more often than not, checking out a score of fake websites to understand the backstory between episodes. (I exaggerate.)

Thirdly, though, I watch Lost for the elements I enjoy. But the key thing is that the elements I enjoy are exactly those being picked up on this page by those defending the show ~ and that they're all "GREAT MOMENTS". They are all kick-ass shots, or lines of dialogue, or kisses, or sneers, or punches. (Which makes them sound like they're all about Sawyer... which, increasingly, is the case I think. I don't think I'd be watching the show without Sawyer. Sawyer is the sex and the violence, in the best way.)

Yes, it's currently worth watching and waiting for the great moments, and in the last episode there were maybe three great moments. But I can entirely understand the disillusionment from those who want to know that the train is going somewhere worthwhile and satisfying, rather than just being happy that they saw some cool stuff from the window in the last half hour.

I have quite a big problem with the flashbacks now. In season one, it made perfect sense. Here are a bunch of strangers, turned up in a strange land ~ let's find out more about them and how they got here. But just as the device of opening most shows with a close-up of an eye was ditched, maybe that should have been ditched, too. Certain storytelling tics and techniques lose their purpose and worth. I'm not convinced that the flashbacks have been necessary since the end of season one, except when they have to clumsily and hastily introduce characters who suddenly show up in the "present day" (Desmond) ~ which is pretty ham-fisted, shove-it-in storytelling.

3.2 was a particularly irritating example, I feel, because it didn't really give us any more information about Sun and Jin. We learned that Jin wants to protect Sun (we knew that) ~ we learned that he's a hard ass, governed by her father (we knew that). We learn, I guess, through the childhood flashback, that she can be stubborn and cold, which at a real stretch carries through to the final scene ~ but that's being generous.

What would we have lost in 3.2 without the flashback? What would the show as a whole have lost? I think all it would have lost is 30 minutes of screen time and some padding to give suspense to the "present day" drama. Without it, we would have been straight on with the Island story, and it would have been over in 15 minutes without any built in cliffhangers. The flashbacks are just bulking out each episode to lengthen the overall story arc. They are becoming increasingly irrelevant stuffing. And yet this episode was named after the first flashback ~ the flash-flashback to Sun's childhood. As if the glass ballerina was the focus and motif of the episode, which unless I'm being especially dense, I don't see at all. The priority is all wrong there ~ naming the episode after a distant, incidentally-relevant glimpse of Sun's childhood is an example of Lost's lack of appropriate weighting between past and present.

And another annoying thing. If anything, the flashback stressed Jin's hard-assery, portraying him as something like a professional tough. But yet again, just as with Sayid, Jack, Sawyer, Locke and Kate, we see the Lostaways being totally pwned by the Others, just as they are every week, despite every flashback showing them escaping the law, winning fistfights, tracking military enemies, eliminating all threats. It's becoming implausible that while half a dozen Lostaways were apparently on a stone-cold bounty hunter level before they boarded the plane ~ expert with firearms, experienced at hunting, tasty in hand-to-hand combat ~ the Others get the drop on them every single time.

You can be a fan of something, or at least fond of it, and criticise it. It's fan investment that makes you really want something to be better.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
07:50 / 14.10.06
There's only so much weird shit people like to endure before they throw their hands up and say, "Hell with this."

And I'm not talking about us. I know we like the weird shit. I'm talking about your average American viewer.


This is also an interesting point. I'm not trying to win an argument over "Lost-gushers" here as I like the show, but some of the defences of the programme remind me of what people said about Matrix Revolutions: the producers know where it's going, it'll all be wound up, you just wait, the final episodes are going to blow your mind.

And then it just went downhill... and further downhill. Questions were left unanswered or hastily wrapped. Subplots were solved in a totally different medium (animated downloads, PS2 games). The movie was just one text among many.

That's not exactly the case with Lost, but given how much was revealed by the Lost Experience ARG, and how that's pretty integral to the story of the Others and the Island, I wonder if it's going to become increasingly true over the next seasons that the show becomes just one part of the text and that to really understand and be satisfied by "Lost" you'll have to put in a week's work across various platforms (buying Apollo bars, forming a metacommunity to decipher the ingredients, freezeframing an interview with a fictional hacker on a Jeep-sponsored talkshow). Which is all fun, but it changes the nature of TV stories, and it's going to be frustrating for probably the majority of viewers who started watching the show in a conventional way and didn't expect to have to make it their main hobby in order to keep enjoying it.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
09:05 / 14.10.06
PS. I watched Lost just after Heroes, and on one a character said "FYI" out loud, and on another, "OMG"! A strange coincidence ~ or is pronouncing internet abbreviations becoming common in everyday speech lol?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
09:14 / 14.10.06
PPS. Wonder if the glass ballerina shot could have been a conscious reference to the snowstorm and Nostalgia bottle in Watchmen. It seemed really similar to me ~ a very close equivalent to Watchmen's nine-panel slow spinning of a glass object in front of a child (Laurie's) eyes in flashback. Are there any other links that suggest a knowing reference to Moore and Gibbons? (The island full of creatives, I suppose... not to mention the reliance on flashbacks.)
 
 
iamus
10:35 / 14.10.06
Re: The Glass Ballerina.

The name of the episode is not a refrence to a distant incident in Sun's childhood. It's a refrence to Sun's willingness to lie at the expense of others. It's one of those defining moments that tells you a lot about who she is and how she reacts when under pressure. The glass ballerina is a context scene. An emotional establishing shot.

She lies to Jin about Sayid's plan, and we find out she lied before when she told him she'd never been with anyone else. These are both glass ballerina moments. Putting an episode like this so far forward makes me think it's going to have relevence to the season as a whole.

I feel a post brewing.... but I might have to give it an episode or so first.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
11:28 / 14.10.06
It's one of those defining moments that tells you a lot about who she is and how she reacts when under pressure. The glass ballerina is a context scene. An emotional establishing shot.


Yeah, I got that it wasn't just chosen randomly from Sun's childhood, and that the glass ballerina was meant to have some broader significance.

However, it tells us about who she was ~ are you still defined in your adult choices by how you responded to your dad accusing you of something, at age seven? ~ and I think for this scene, not all that obviously significant in the life of a rich girl, and not necessarily something that would shape her or that she'd particularly remember, to be treated as the emotional explanation for the later events is a stretch.

That a woman chooses to lie as an adult doesn't have to be explained with the backstory that she lied once as a child. I don't think it was necessary or that it enriched the episode, really. We don't have to see Sawyer eyeing up a woman's ass when he was 15 to understand his motivation for checking out Kate in this installment; we don't need to flash back to Jack and his dad watching the Red Sox to explain why he responds that way to the baseball news. I don't think someone telling lies has to be filled out with a primal scene.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
11:29 / 14.10.06
The name of the episode is not a refrence to a distant incident in Sun's childhood. It's a refrence to Sun's willingness to lie at the expense of others.

Also... it is the former. You're arguing that it isn't just the former, which is OK. I just don't think the glass ballerina can be made to carry that much emotional, character and narrative weight. It's hardly Rosebud.
 
 
iamus
11:51 / 14.10.06
Well, no.

But to be fair, it's just the name of an episode and Lost episodes are always, first and foremost, character pieces.

A bit of thematic shorthand. Sets up the character stuff that's being explored. I think it works fine.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
11:52 / 14.10.06
Another thing...those of us who do have criticisms...we aren't just bashing the show with a grudge. Yet these responses make it sound like we are.

I was starting to notice that, too. I was wondering if anyone had actually read the criticising posts but had just decided to interpret them as "They aren't going to be watching LOST anymore, well, fuck them" when nothing was said of the sort. In fact, I think I stated twice that just because I was unhappy with the show it didn't mean I was going to stop watching it.

Anyway, as you were.
 
  

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