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The Ultimates 2

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18:59 / 09.12.05

A bunch of people here didn't know what 'The Great Satan' referred to and should.

Is it beating a dead horse to ask WHO this bunch of people are? I just re-read the last page and it seemed to play like so:

Back to the comic.
I think it's a guy in the red suit and it's the Crimson Dynamo.

The itchy implants were what enabled 'tasha to leap from Building to building way back when.

Abomination was a Russian Spy in the original 616

There's a distinct lack of green in the Syth's outfit and that W also reads as a bird. So, perhaps we're looking at Colonel Egypt?

19:04 / 09.12.05

We got Vanguard (or Perun) and Red Dynamo pretty clear... so it´s not the masters of evil, but the Winter Guard/People´s protectorate on a ultimate Axis of evil version. The red guy must be a muslim equivalent of Red Guardian (as I remember the name)... maybe the W is supposed to be an eagle... so the others might be derived from their countries´ mythologies... though I hope for one of them being Ultimate Darkstar

19:07 / 09.12.05

The international opposition to USA´s supersoldier program was clearlyt shown in the Annual, by the way

A beautiful tunnel of ghosts

19:27 / 09.12.05

The Hulk's return will depend on where Ultimate Wolverine vs. Hulk takes place in Ultimate continuity.

Has Millar explained why the Ultimate Hulk is now green?

19:33 / 09.12.05

I'd assumed that since Hulk ate a shapeshifting Chitauri (SKRULL!), he'd gained the ability to shift from Banner to Hulk and back again. Might also explain the green, as an alien-chemical side-effect.

20:47 / 09.12.05

>> Has Millar explained why the Ultimate Hulk is now green?

He might not have to, since Ult. Hulkie hasn't been seen green yet in the pages of The Ultimates. The writer of the Ult. Hulk v. Wolvie mini might address the color change, methinks.

20:59 / 09.12.05

I think it's going to turn out that Fury let Hawkeye be kidnapped, he kept the security codes the same as the ones Hawkeye knew, he let the most powerful Ultimates be taken down, he let other nations build people of mass destruction, and he let Black Widow stay in the team because he wants carte blanche to turn the Ultimates into a global police force and a superpowered invasion of the US would pretty much give him that.

But Pearl Harbour and 911 weren't on this scale. This is America mortally wounded and bereft of super-aid, at least that's the plan. Fury would need to be pretty bloody certain he could drag things back from the brink to even entertain the notion, I mean, if the Ultimates fail now, then he is fucked, fucked, fucked, and so is everything he's ever believed in. As far as I'm concerned, them stakes are far too high, only a complete lunatic would consider such a dangerous, and, frankly, hair brained scheme. That's not to say I would put it past Millar to have one of his characters behave in such an absurdly reckless fashion, but I'll have trouble buying it.

11:25 / 10.12.05

I agree: this is extreme brinksmanship. But on the one hand, you could say that that's always been how foreign policy is charted, by people taking extreme risks and hoping for great rewards. I mean, the conspiracy theories about 9/11 and Pearl Harbor are exactly the situation you describe, Pearl Harbor (which is a more credible theory anyways) far more than 9/11 since it was an attack on the US fleet, and 9/11 was a civillian target.

But also, don't forget that Fury has seen the Ultimates take down the Hulk and defeat an alien invasion, so he knows they're capable of big thing.

The Natural Way

11:41 / 10.12.05

The real flaw in yr idea is that the team are ALREADY acting like an international police force. They don't feel they require further justification - just disarmed a bloody country, fercrisakes.

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

22:28 / 18.12.05

My question is, how the fuck does Tony get out of this? She's such a highly trained badass she's on the same team as Thor and doesn't even need super powers. He's an alcoholic nerd with two bottles of champaigne in his blood and not in the best position. Jarvis was his only hope and that didn't go too well. My prediction: the kind of incongruous statement about her implants itching is a reference to the bionic implants she got from Tony, maybe to interface with her black suit, and they've got some kind of built-in failsafe so he can make her body shut down with a command word. Or explode or something.

Also if we're meant to see some kind of pair-off between good and bad guys, who gets Thor? The guy who has his lightning stuff seems obvious, but then there's Loki. Not to mention that Thor currently seems to have no powers.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

22:44 / 18.12.05

See, just discussing how Tony gets the eff out of this makes me so damn excited to read these last few issues (over the course of 2006).

07:40 / 19.12.05

My question is, how the fuck does Tony get out of this? She's such a highly trained badass she's on the same team as Thor and doesn't even need super powers. He's an alcoholic nerd with two bottles of champaigne in his blood and not in the best position.

Depends how much of the Ultimate Iron Man mini-series they're going to reference. Getting shot in the head isn't a big deal for a man who has redundant brain tissue throughout his body and can heal back burnt off legs.

Of course Black Widow's superiors would probably want Stark taken alive so they can extract info about the Iron Man suits from him.

Regarding all of this being brinkmanship on the part of Fury. I think that unless that was a Fury LMD losing it's arm during the fighting, he wasn't aware it was going to happen.

Although...Pym as a triple agent? Maybe only seeming to betray the Ultimates in order for Fury to have a man on the inside?

09:21 / 19.12.05

the conspiracy theories about 9/11 and Pearl Harbor are exactly the situation you describe, Pearl Harbor (which is a more credible theory anyways) far more than 9/11 since it was an attack on the US fleet, and 9/11 was a civillian target.

Ya see, I don't think they are "exactly the situation I describe", the worst result of the Pearl Harbour conspiracy theory is a few hundred dead sailors and a few sunk ships, the worst result of a 9/11 conspiracy is a few thousand dead civilians. Sure, in both cases there was economic and social fallout, but it was manageable - perhaps even desirable. In fact, manageable consequences is what it's all about, manageable consequences that create a context in which it is easier to persuade the public of a particular course of action.
The problem is, what you're proposing Fury has done is create a situation that has an extremely good chance of turning out to be unmanageable. Unless he has some kind of deus ex machina plot device up his sleeve (which would be crap, IMO), he can't know that he can pull things back and if he can't know that he can pull things back then the situation doesn't even compare to the Pearl Harbour and 911 conspiracy theories, where it's arguable that nothing needed to be pulled back at all.

Also, in terms of storytelling, I think it's entirely plausible that Millar is actually trying to move away from the Ultimates as tool of American imperialism shtick. We've just spent an entire story arc focussing on the Ultimates as a metaphor for American foreign policy, surely we're reaching it's conclusion rather than building up to yet more international scandal.

09:49 / 19.12.05

I think Pym may be doing the triple agent stichk but I don't think he's doing it under the orders of Fury. At the moment he's the only 'good guy' on the inside of the Masters of Evil and I think he was playing along to see where it took him. Or alternatively he'll do the 'oh my god what have I done' thing and spring people from the inside.

Personally I'm just glad it's all kicked off finally, the tension had gone on just a bit too long for my liking.

09:59 / 19.12.05

I think you could be on to something there.

10:01 / 19.12.05

Oh, and who'll reach out to him? Jan, maybe?

10:27 / 19.12.05

Thor, walking Deus Ex Machina?

I would be disappointed if the Hulk had to save their sorry asses, again.

10:36 / 19.12.05

I'm wondering if they'll bring Vision into the Ultimates as the "deus ex machina de jour". They've been pushing ver in the micro-mini series attached to various Ultimate titles (although more to foreshadow the upcoming Ultimate Extinction storyline).

Perhaps the initial resistance starts with Falcon and Vision breaking Cap and Thor out?

10:53 / 19.12.05

Thor, walking Deus Ex Machina?

Not really sure what you're getting at. Are you suggesting that he's so damn hard he could take on all the baddies singlehandedly? If so, I seem to remember the Ultimates taking him down.

10:54 / 19.12.05

Also, I think we're getting dangerously close to abusing the term (deus ex machina).

12:21 / 19.12.05

Pym will release Ultron to save the day/make things worse.

12:50 / 19.12.05

I hope not. We've already had one save by a superhard bastard (the Hulk).

14:01 / 19.12.05

Ah, but Hulk wasn't strategic. He was just a monster with big fists. Ultron's a supervillain calculator. Pym may in fact triplecross.. and that's what leads this line of thinking.

How does America get out of a siutuation where a foregin power has decimated its armed resistance and has containment forces over ever major metro area? Nuke codes. I'm assuming that by creating a threat to ALL national interests, IE crazy muthakuffing supervillains, Red Guard will pull out of US and go after the Badguy, creating another global force team-up to take down him down.

Just a thought.

14:09 / 19.12.05

And hiding ant-sized will be Pym's escape.

yawn - thing's buddy

14:24 / 19.12.05

izzit no a pure illusion?

what with loki being a mischief maker n all?

there's no way all that destruction is for real.

no way.

(look, i know its not for real, really, okay, only a comic an all that)

((but hey, at least i knew about the 'great satan' thing tho, eh - surely general knowledge of current affairs is more important than understanding the marvel u? no, okay . . .))

(((cheers)))

anyway. off to reread back panther 1 - 5 now. the one from a few years back. really good.

14:26 / 19.12.05

Well, yeah. There's that too. Illusions.

Haus of Mystery

15:16 / 19.12.05

'It was all a dream...'

Yeah, reckon Millar's not above that old trick.

17:01 / 19.12.05

Perhaps that's the amazing concept nobody guessed.

yawn - thing's buddy

22:09 / 19.12.05

calling me nobody, sweet cheeks?

18:02 / 22.12.05

very late in the discussion, but...

I liked this last issues, a lot actually [even with analogue/tired plot devices and all]. to tell the truth it's been a bold statement from Millar, I'm just curious as to know if this was planned all along or if he changed his take on the international situation as the American media did. I remember the "Ultmates as a comic for Conservatives" thing...

funny that I ignored the thread as much as Uv2 but been getting this in larger chunks. Millar had us believe in anything he wanted to, for most of the time, at least. I gre from [being led to] hating this comic to loving it [even more that magic is seen as another source for the characters powers rather than only genetics and engineering].

and perhaps nobody nailed the actual "traitor" yet, the one who contacted Pym etc. I believe Hulk will soon come back green because he absorbed some gamma radiation from the failed execution.

I don't know who all those characters at the end of #9 are - apart from Crimson Dynamo and Loki - but old John Buscema Avengers comics might hold the answer, as Millar is openly remaking them.

Loeb will have a hard time following this up if he's not up to burn some brain cells.

14:25 / 31.01.06

There's also an Ultimates animated DVD in the works, due to come out within the next month. The creators are people who worked on X-Men: Evolution, I think, and one person who might have worked on the Dini/Timm DCU animated stuff. It apparently will cover the plot of the first 8 issues, basically (mostly issues 1-5 but some of the Chitauri stuff is in there too). It looks OK but not great. It's called "Ultimate Avengers," I think.

14:27 / 31.01.06

>> I believe Hulk will soon come back green because he absorbed some gamma radiation from the failed execution.

Oh, and Hulk is already green in Ult. Hulk vs. Wolverine #1, with no explanation of why offered as of yet.

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

23:07 / 31.01.06

Ult Hulk was green in his first app in Ultimate Marvel Team-up, too. It wasn't till the Ultimates version that he was grey.

12:40 / 01.02.06

I nearly wet my fanboy pants when you mentioned that cartoon Finder, howcoolISTHAT?!,aid I to myself. Then I saw the screenies... hmmm it looks a little like the £3 from-the-market rip-offs of Disney movies (and I should know, I got a knock-off Hercules one year, and was not best pleased...).

Frankly, I doubt it'll be as good as thhe comics, and I doubt they'll end the DVD with the Giant-man/Wasp fight scene that made book one so worth my while. the might just save it if they leave in the Freddie Prinz Jr (however you spell it, motherfucker with his stupid name) stuff, as that was probably the non-domestic abuse highlight of the first book. But then I think that Cap's "...France..." comment was just about the funniest joke I'd read in a superhero book, so what do I know?

Keith, like a scientist

15:28 / 28.02.06

#10 is out this Wednesday.

Short preview at Buzzscope.

SPOILERS?

Space for you hardcore Spoiler people

Cut off just before learning the name of the (yes) Middle Eastern captain.

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