BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


The Ultimates 2

 
  

Page: 1 ... 1718192021(22)232425

 
 
FinderWolf
12:52 / 04.07.06
IMO, Loeb's career as a writer started out strong with the pretty darn good SUPERMAN FOR ALL SEASONS and the mostly entertaining THE LONG HALLOWEEN...things went kind of downhill from there. DARK VICTORY, the sequel to LONG HALLOWEEN, was just ok, and his "Hush" 12-issue Batman run with Jim Lee was ok but not great, often sometimes just plain poorly written. He had a decent run on the monthly Superman book years back - sometimes he turned in excellent issues, sometimes so-so. (highlights included the Parasite masquerading as a bitchy Lois Lane for months)

His 'color'-themed minis for Marvel have been just so-so (i.e. "Spider-Man: Blue" about the loves of Peter Parker in the Gwen Stacy/Mary Jane 70s era, "Daredevil: Yellow" about DD's yellow costume period), and his SUPERMAN/BATMAN over at DC started out silly/fun/entertaining and fell into sort of unreadable drivel. That's just my two cents on him.

I've never read his first major comics work, CHALLENGERS OF THE UNKNOWN (12-issue miniseries collected in paperback a while ago, with art by his by-now-frequent collaborator, Tim Sale).
 
 
This Sunday
19:29 / 04.07.06
I think a lot of Loeb's readability depends on his artist, and even on things I like, he seeme to be borrowing the best bits from better things, like the bits of 'The Godfather' going into 'The Long Halloween' and all. Which, I hate to say because he comes of as a pretty decent guy, in person, and even stuff like Supes/Bats appears to not be bad, just not something angled to me, in particular.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
21:27 / 04.07.06
Loeb wrote DD: Yellow? The fact that I'd forgotten I'd ever read it until you mentioned pretty much sums that book up.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
21:24 / 29.08.06
Right, so Marvel can delay a shed-load of books to maintain Civil War's continuity and artistic integrity, but they couldn't hold back and release The Ultimates Annual #2 until the story it follows had actually finished?

I came into posession of it through no fault of my own (honestly) and after being told by Marvel that it didn't spoil anything, I read it. It doesn't spoil much, but it does spoil some things, mainly a few characters that survive.

SPOILERS










Two of the characters that "Appear" in the issue, Iron Man (or someone in his suit) and Quicksilver, didn't even need to be there. Quicksilver is mentioned in one speech bubble, and Iron Man appears in a group shot of heroes pulling the Statue of Liberty out of the Ocean, but he isn't doing anyhing, just hovering there!


END SPOILERS






This book was announced ages ago, and it was aknowledged from the start that it wwas going to be released before the Ultimates finished, so why didn't editorial get rid of them?

Also, it was a pretty terrible comic. Even Sook, who was the one aspect of the book I was looking forward to, managed to dissapoint me.

AVOID.
 
 
Henningjohnathan
22:19 / 29.08.06
...Iron Man (or someone in his suit)...

Interesting. Has anyone proposed the idea that terminally ill Stark might have created the Iron Man technology with the intent of downloading his mind into superpowered mechanical bodies?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
04:00 / 30.08.06
The Sook art was decent, although there were a few panels that were pretty goofy - Cap in his WW2 "dress uniform," for example, with the "A" porkpie.

And, seriously, I read it and then I tried to figure out if the end of the Liberators arc had come out and I'd missed it. At least it didn't spoil any secrets about who or what Thor actually is, and who or what Loki actually is.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
08:26 / 30.08.06
I know nothing major was spoiled, but it just bugged me that the minor things were spoiled so needlessly. It would have been so easy to avoid it almost appears intentional.
 
 
gridley
13:05 / 28.09.06
Wow, all that waiting for such a yawwwwwwwn of a battle. When even the characters themselves are complaining about how lame the dialogue is, it's time for me to stop reading.
 
 
Triplets
15:35 / 28.09.06
Any interesting developments or [OMG] deaths?!!?!5!?
 
 
Grady Hendrix
16:48 / 28.09.06
Nothing major. It's a very well-done superhero battle with a lot of cute moments, but there are no real plot or character developments in this issue (Ultimates fight baddies and win), and everything is somewhat hampered by the relentless, almost clockwork, need for characters to be quotable.

That said, there are two very nice sequences. One, where Quicksilver shows his true character, and the other where Hank Pym gets so weasely that even his robots gawp at him in disbelief. Otherwise: more of the same. Which isn't exactly a bad thing if you like what Millar and Hitch have been serving up so far.

The Ultimates are what got me back into reading comics in the past couple of years, and despite my great love for them I have to say that their best days were in the first volume (against the Hulk) and the Hank and Jan storyline. Nothing since then has managed to top those those two stories.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
19:22 / 28.09.06
Plus Iron Man Six: Flying Gun Platform shoots shit up to no end.
 
 
emperor zombie
00:36 / 29.09.06
The Iron Man 6 reveal was a bit of a let-down. Much preferred the "all Iron Man models past and future" team-up from this summer's New Avenger's Annual.

I did greatly enjoy the Hulk v. Abomination matchup, especially the action in silhouette. I know I still haven't seen Ultimate Wolverine/Hulk #3, but it would have been nice if Banner's dialog capabilities matched up. Suppose it would have busted the joke in his fight sequence. Ah well.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
01:46 / 29.09.06
That was some...fight scene. Betty Ross's father scares the crap out of me.

Quicksilver's sequence was beautiful, and reminds us that he will always be nastier than the Flash.

Otherwise - enh. the Abdul/Cap fight scene - and its climax - left me feeling remarkably uncomfortable, but given who's writing the Ultimates, that's not surprising.

Hitch's Brian Braddock is hot.

And the fight's not even over yet! Loki needs to be taken down.
 
 
The Falcon
12:49 / 30.09.06
Otherwise - enh. the Abdul/Cap fight scene - and its climax - left me feeling remarkably uncomfortable, but given who's writing the Ultimates, that's not surprising.

Yeah, as I've said before this really is Marvel by way of the right-wing conspiracy nut; al-Rahman is called Abdul, but when Cap delivers the killer stroke, it did just feel like his first name ('No jokes, Abdul') was just a generic Arabism. I had to recheck.

But, in a way, it's gloriously crass and I'm interested in why I'm being made to be uncomfortable; I can never quite pin it here. Apart from the fact I'm a whiny liberal; so Fury might say, anyhow.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
01:55 / 01.10.06
The Abomination's problem is that he thinks too much. People who think too much can't be trusted, can they? They tend to be loony lefties or sexual perverts.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
04:35 / 02.10.06
Falcon: But, in a way, it's gloriously crass and I'm interested in why I'm being made to be uncomfortable; I can never quite pin it here. Apart from the fact I'm a whiny liberal; so Fury might say, anyhow.

Because, in part, we've been conditioned for years to associate Captain America with positive behaviour even if the country he represents has a dubious government. Manipulating the reader's preconceived notions of Cap (who, to a certain extent, has as much baggage as Superman in that regard) is going to twist the knife a bit. Because Cap is a view point protagonist who's proving to be a jerk, a sexist, a racist, et cetera. And there's something very lurid about the presentation as well.

Also, the fact that the entire time you have this weird Star Wars riff going on with the ripped dialogue, the weird pseudo-light sabre, and al-Rahman pushing Cap to "strike him down" (I seem to recall he actually says that at one point) added a weird layer to it as well. al-Rahman is cast too easily into the role of Darth Vader fighting his (spiritual) mentor/inspiration (even as a negative).

But it's possible, in retrospect and given the end of the issue, that these elements were compounded by Loki manipulating everyone.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:35 / 02.10.06
Loki is, after all, a wizard.

Perhaps Loki is making Reed Richards a shithead in the other Marvel?

Perhaps he is. He wizard.
 
 
Evil Scientist
10:00 / 02.10.06
Loki, the Ultimate universe's continuity punch.
 
 
_Boboss
11:40 / 02.10.06
hmm - he haw to comment or not, or to just forget about this massive 48 page steamy turd..? alright go on then: ... this was just unspeakably shite comicbooking wasn't it? greatest superhero sin is being boring and this book was enough boring to fill a year of policy threads. such a shame for the ultimates, which i remember fondly as being a brave and innovative book with a fresh 9/11 adjusted consciousness and storytelling approach, to have degraded to such draining empty bangs and slams as this.

like the dialogue: just rubbish, awkward torrents of syllables that you could never imagine coming out of someone's mouth, even if that person was such a sociopath. like, the star wars nods in the cap v cap fight? someone was paid money for writing this blah balls? why DID the baddie have a lightsaber? why did no one decide to have a better idea than that?

and, is it me or is the art really flat? he's totally lost that double splash page mojo which was so exciting (a decade ago) in the authority - here it was all weightless objects that you couldn't take in because they were so foregrounded. i've still no idea what iron man six is meant to look like. and the storyrtelling too, like, was hawkeye close enough to throw the shield or not? who threw the shield? and were they even fighting in the first place or just doing some outrageously macho folk dance or something, wonky legs all over the place?

such unthreatening villains who can be just trodden on* or laser zapped or torn apart with no effort at all (*trodden on? so the wasp is just crap then and we'll give her some other powers for the duration? it would have been much more fun if she'd just snuck inside the crimson dynamo suit or something, wouldn't it? no no, she just had this syringe on her the whole time, and...)

fury's lines about rescuing the president or whatever, while straightarming an assault rifle? and for a comic which was all about a sense of credibility, of a certain verisimilitude...

oh i'm running out of energy - thinking about this book again has just made monday even more dispiriting. I hate myself already for buying the next issue. thank god it'll be the last.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
12:04 / 03.10.06
Word.
What he said. A crap sandwich with a side order of arse.

The bit with EVERY Ultimate hero appearing - what is this, fucking Secret Wars? They just suddenly...appeared!!! So, shockingly, unforgiveably shite. And this is supposed to be progressive storytelling?

Ugh.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
12:31 / 03.10.06
and if that bloke is an aizerbaijani, he's highly unlikely to have an arabic name, such as al-rahman. they are turkic people and have turkish names - not arabic. although he may have changed his name on becoming radicalised.

but I'm more inclined to think millar simply thought aizerbaijan was an arab country - surely not?

they're all the fuckin same tho, eh.....

maybe I'm being harsh, pedantic, but it felt like millar wanted to be 'different' by having him come from aizerbaijan but couldn't be arsed doing proper research.

kinda like that time in GM's new x men when the ed's crap at the beginning said afghanistan was in the middle east.

shit like that grates man.

all the same I'm looking forward to the fight between Loki and Thor.

I want Loki to win, convincingly.

snot going to happen is it.

final: 'hulk with brains being a weakness' idea - too fuckin obvious.
 
 
Sniv
12:44 / 03.10.06
Really? If I say I enjoyed this book, people are going to think less of me, aren't they?

I really enjoyed this book. I was a big, dumb, nasty fight scene. The fight scene we'd waited 11 issues for. I honestly was expecting fuck-all in the way of character development or subplots. I got what I expected - big macho men beating the living shit out of each other, with some quite nice splash pages (but boy, Hitch has really starting losing it since the start of this 'season', hasn't he?), some big dumb dialogue. All the boxes checked.

I think wehen reading these books, you have to keep in mind that they are totally written for the trade. You've had issues and issues of build-up, this is the bit where there is a big fight, a-la the conventions of superhero comic books. Imagine this arc was one 23 page comics. This fight would be three pages long, that's how much it counts in terms of the whole story. I'm sure that reading it as part of the trade rather than in-between the rest of this weeks' comics, the pacing will make a lot more sense.

That said, there were some great sequences in the issue, if only from a visceral perspective - Quicksilver running with the evilspeeder until she burst, Hulk punching the top of the Abomination's head off (and ripping the arms off, lovely), a drunken Tony Stark showing up in an obscene orbiting weapons platform, Cap's ambiguous and slightly stomach-turning fight with Abdul along with the 'victory line'.

I think, as Falc and Papers have mentioned, Cap's anti-muslim stance is a purposeful decision on behalf of Millar, and I think it works really well. I think one of the main reasons people don't like this issue (as well as their problems with art/dialogue) is because the Ultimates have been asking for this for the whole season, they've become the aggressors, taking missions in Iraq and generally toeing the neo-con line. I think Millar is doing this on purpose, and using it to create a story with some very odd reasonances. It does raise an interesting question of how/why you should use (real) international politics in comic books, but I don't think it was nearly as bad as the Joker being the Ayatollah in A death in the Family. That's just fucked.

That said, it was the best Hollywood-summer-blockbuster comic I've read for a while (since Wanted, I think), and left a big dumb grin on my face.

Also, to whoever asked how the Hulk won - he's the Hulk! He got blowed up by a nuke (!!1!!2) and he's still kicking arse. What's some half-assed pointdexter mutation going to do against someone that skull-fucks the chitauri? He is the unstoppable, completely amoral character on the Ults, and I love his OTT representation, and I love him for it, he cracks me up.
 
 
A beautiful tunnel of ghosts
11:25 / 04.10.06
...the Joker being the Ayatollah in A Death in the Family. That's just fucked.

The Joker was the Iranian ambassador to the United States. The Ayatollah was Khomeini. But I understand your meaning.
 
 
Sniv
12:37 / 04.10.06
Oops, apologies. Anglocentrism ahoy. It's been a few years since I read that story. Didn't he mention the Ayatollah though, or was given the job by him or something? Or am I waaaay out?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:49 / 04.10.06
The Joker had just left the place where he'd beaten the Boy Wonder half to death and was at a loose end as to what to do next, he's escorted into a warehouse and there is Khomeni, offering him a job in person as evil despots would do. It's a weird slide from the first half of the story, with Robin looking for his mum, to this. Though it does have Batman punch Superman.
 
 
Feverfew
17:49 / 04.10.06
What more could anyone ask for?
 
 
This Sunday
18:58 / 04.10.06
Is there a special (Loki-rape?) reveal to yet come, then? Some make-them-Avengers joyjoy deal?

And it's funny that Millar (co)wrote a wonderfully happy Cap, years ago, playing peekaboo with kids and eating apple pie. But then, he wrote 'Superman Adventures' and then had Apollo suffer the fate worse than death (but better for sales), too.

And, as a sidenote of semi-import: real, oft-presumed legit things will place Afghanistan in the 'Middle East'. Just after 9/11, I had a newspaper (that'll remain nameless) excise every instance of the country's name in print, replacing it with... drumroll please... The Middle East.
Millar, if mistaken, could easily be mistaken from a source that appeared on the level.

And, y'know, maybe the guy did change his name. People do. Even nationalist religious ubermensch types in red headgear. Or came from elsewhere, somewhere down the family line. Anyone remember a really horrible post somewhere about 'Planetary' that stated Jakita couldn't be from Africa because 'Wagner' was an American name, not an African?
 
 
The Falcon
22:47 / 04.10.06
Well, that's her adoptive parents' name + no I don't remember that.

To be honest, I'd never realised Afghanistan wasn't Middle-East, myself, which had seemed to me to be a general and non-specific term for countries with a lot of Arabic Muslims in them. Obvs, this could extend as far as - well, Libya - I'm an African by birth, but I don't really count those countries along the top, support them in the World Cup, etc. Do count Somalia and Sudan, though. But, anyway, making chap Azerbaijani was rubbish and I suspect done so because Millar desperately wanted another 'A' letter country + probably wasn't allowed Afghanistan, which'd've made a lot more sense, that or Iran given they're the only places the neocon fightin' team actually went iirc.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
08:30 / 05.10.06
daytripper - you are right - it was a bit much of me to presume someone from azerbaijan wouldn't have an arabic name.

However, there is an inherent sloppiness about the character's presentation that's probably better surmised by falcon's reasoning regarding Miller's motivations.

as for afghanistan being in the middle east? anything's possible these days: khazakstan plays in the European champion's league, so does Israel, Armenia is in Europe, so is Cyprus, Turkey is not.

None of these tags are geographical, rather, they're political. so once afghanistan got tied to 'the war on terror' it immediately got badged as a middle eastern country by the states, cos the middle east is where terrorism comes from, innit?
 
 
gridley
13:27 / 05.10.06
In 2004, Bush and the G8 Summit expanded "The Middle East" to include all of Northern Africa and everything eastward til you get to India.

Because you know, having to remember all those different regions and individual countries is too damned hard.
 
 
The Falcon
16:14 / 05.10.06
Well, was it ever really a ratified area? I'm guessing the Saudi peninsula, maybe a bit over to the east inc. Iraq/Iran, if so. It's not like it's one of the Olympic rings. Also Turkey do play Champs. Lg.; the Israeli thing is, I think, because there's a great deal of hostility in the surrounding region and sports teams would be in danger, poss. None of which quite explains Dana International and the Eurovision.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
08:09 / 06.10.06
dunc - yeah turkey do play in champ's league but most 'europeans' - from the pope downwards - will tell you that turkey is not europe, different culture etc.

point is regions are always defined politically, rather than geographically.

afghanistan, geographically, is a link between India subcontinent and central asia (land of the stans)

anyway - ultimates - miller's clearly bored with this lot now.

as someone said above, nothing has come close to the first 5 or 6 issues in series one.
 
 
diz
14:51 / 06.10.06
anyway - ultimates - miller's clearly bored with this lot now.

Yeah, and I'm mostly bored with them, too.

Like almost everyone else, I liked the Quicksilver scene. I'm also with Grady Hendrix on liking the Hank Pym scene. The Ultron's "What? Seriously?" got a laugh. I also liked Giant-Sized Wasp, and Scarlet Witch's little "fuck you" to Loki with the return of Thor.

I love the Ultimate Hulk, but his fight with the Abomination was too anticlimactic. I like the idea of drunken Tony Stark in an orbital weapons platform fucking up everything in sight, but the art was so busy and so overloaded that it was too hard to take it all in.

I was uncomfortable with the weird nationalistic stuff and the Cap/Colonel Al-Rahman fight. I was underwhelmed by the art, and I think the pacing was all over the place. Overall, I'm bored, and I might be offended, but I'm not sure I care enough.
 
 
Spaniel
19:35 / 06.10.06
Ditto.

Thanks for summing up my thoughts for me.
 
 
Feverfew
16:07 / 07.10.06
I got this today and my considered summation is, quite frankly, "eek".

I agree with the comments above, mostly, though. "Drunken Billionaire in charge of weapons platform" sounds too much like a Sun headline to be true, and I can see how "What? Seriously?" would get a laugh.

Anyway, betting pool on the next issue?

3/1 Thor holds down Loki and forces him to undo all the destruction.

4/1 Mr. Al-Rahman isn't dead.

5/1 Something emotional therefore happens with Mr. Al-Rahman.

15/1 Millar tries to rationalise everything that's gone on in #12 to everyone's satisfaction, but;

20/1 Most of no-one really cares, and;

30/1 Those that do care buy #13.

Still; what can you do?
 
  

Page: 1 ... 1718192021(22)232425

 
  
Add Your Reply