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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

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E. Coli from the Milky Way

10:22 / 08.09.06

Anyone tried high-potassium diets during magick/shamanic/energetic/the_wathever work?

14:54 / 12.09.06

What plants are associated with wealth and prosperity? I'm looking for something green and leafy, as opposed to flowery. I currently have bamboo down as one option, and gingko biloba as another. Any others? This is for a design project at work. I'd like to attach some of teh wicked wicked occult significance to it.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

15:04 / 12.09.06

Cabbage.

15:47 / 12.09.06

On that note, all greens really, at least in Hoodoo. Collards are generally eaten in the Southern US on New Year's Day, along with black eyed peas and cornbread. The greens symbolise folding money, the cornbread gold, and the peas are for general prosperity and the granting of wishes.

Now I am not only homesick, but hungry!

15:49 / 12.09.06

Awesome. Thanks to both of you.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

18:02 / 12.09.06

rosie x: a variant I came across, from Northern Italy, is a New Year's dish of lentils to bring prosperity. The lentils are meant to represent coins, being round.

19:17 / 12.09.06

Good thing I've just eaten!

And hoping that the nice spinach salad I just had might help to remedy the rather desperate state of my bank account.

One can wish...

19:24 / 12.09.06

you might consider a nice nut loaf surprise. It might not help your bank account directly but it is sure to cause some major event!

21:39 / 12.09.06

rosie x: a variant I came across, from Northern Italy, is a New Year's dish of lentils to bring prosperity. The lentils are meant to represent coins, being round.

We have the same tradition down here in Brazil, and it was probably brought over by Italians immigrants (my ancestrals included). Just like the 29th of the month Gnocci, in which you place a cash bill under the plate with Gnocci for good luck - money-wise - in the coming month.

Just so you know...

22:57 / 12.09.06

I was always taught Fern was wealth, but was never really given an explanation of that at all.

Unconditional Love

23:19 / 12.09.06

i have an old honey jar filled with a mixture of herbs and rice, coins and a piece of pyrite, keeps my money flowing steady, but then i dont want for much beyond food and shelter and a few luxurys, my money jar keeps things going, if something breaks i always have a way to cover it.

I make a rule of never quite emptying it, and sometimes bury it in the garden adding jewellery to it, to dig it up sometime later, digging up treasure seems to work on alot of levels.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

23:41 / 12.09.06

29th of Jan., DM, or the 29th of any old month?

02:31 / 13.09.06

Any month, if I remember correctly (gotta ask my parents)

Evidently, February the 29th tends to be specially aprreciated for this tradition...

09:24 / 13.09.06

What plants are associated with wealth and prosperity?

Alfalfa sprouts, fresh basil, lettuce. Anything green really but I go for fresh basil salad, mmmm.

09:51 / 13.09.06

...you might consider a nice nut loaf surprise...

NO! Dear God, no...anything but that!

E. Coli from the Milky Way

16:19 / 16.09.06

We have had published here in Spain, 6 months ago or so, "The Cosmic Trigger" by RAW (the translation of the title has been, actually, "The Cosmic Hammer"). A classic, i suppose.

Well, the part that has triggered me most is the part of Timothy Leary trying to communicate telepathycally(sp?) with stars. I've read about the crowley idea of having a star inside every person, or about the solar identification on shamanic calls reported by joana halifax.

But i've not found specific exercicises, or reports of rituals or experiencies related to the communication with the stars?

does anybody know something?

Unconditional Love

13:05 / 19.09.06

Has anybody in barbelith just given up on spirituality all together and moved on to other things, say artistic out put or community based activities that are non spiritual in nature, i am seriously thinking this through at present as some of the forms of spirituality i have investigated are having what i percieve to be an adverse effect on me as an individual, ie some ideas and practices seem to be getting in my way rather than actually helping me to heal or evolve.

13:25 / 19.09.06

I'd suggest that artistic and community work can be an expression of spirituality. My understanding of many gnostic teachings was to participate in the life of the community to the fullest. If anything spirituality is about intent to nourish the spirit.

14:23 / 19.09.06

Has anybody in barbelith just given up on spirituality all together and moved on to other things, say artistic out put or community based activities that are non spiritual in nature, i am seriously thinking this through at present as some of the forms of spirituality i have investigated are having what i percieve to be an adverse effect on me as an individual, ie some ideas and practices seem to be getting in my way rather than actually helping me to heal or evolve.

I tend to go in cycles, heavily focusing on magic or yoga for six months to a couple of years, followed by heavily focusing my energy on other issues (family, career, etc.) for six months to a couple of years, then back again.

Hinduism recognizes several different stages of life: the student (brahmacharyasram), the householder (grihasthasram), the forest dweller (vanaprasthasram), and the renunciate (sanyasasram).

Each stage is an important part of the spiritual path -- including the householder, who focuses on arguably mundane issues like earning a living, loving his or her partner, raising a family, etc. In fact, the householder phase often is seen as the most important phase of all, and the ideal time to (overtly or implicitly) practice karma yoga, the yoga of good deeds and service to others.

(See Vivekenanda's book on Karma Yoga for a much more detailed discussion of the subject.)

So if it feels like your overt spiritual practice is getting in the way, you may want to let it gently drop away for a while while you focus on other aspects of your life. When it's time to take up more active practices again, you'll probably know.

Henningjohnathan

17:49 / 19.09.06

A fairly simple religious history question, but I'm having trouble researching it definitively.

Were the Hebrews ever polytheistic? Was the Jewish God at one time a member of a pantheon? Did the various names of God (Elohim, Yahweh, etc.) actually refer to several different Semitic dieties prior to monotheistic Judaism? If so, is there significant amount of evidence supporting that conclusion?

18:14 / 19.09.06

Asherah and the God of the Early Israelites

The article seems to be of reasonable academic pedigree.
I've read it before but to find it I just google 'yahweh goddess'.

Let me know how it fits.

Henningjohnathan

19:33 / 19.09.06

I like a lot of that. Have you read any of Rushkoff's TESTAMENT? Are the various dieties in there related to the proto-semitic?

On another question, I've read JONATHAN STRANGE AND MR. NORREL and even though the magic in it seems very fanciful in the same tone as HARRY POTTER, D&D or EARTHSEA, the protrayel of the Faerie and the idea that the Raven King's magic is based upon a covenant with natural forces and entities, such as trees and stones, strikes a chord with me (or as Edgar Allen Poe once wrote the idea "is by far too beautiful, indeed, not to possess Truth..." )

Is there a magical tradition that seeks to establish compacts with the animistic forces of nature (elemental magick, perhaps)? As far as the depiction of Faery, did the author use established ideas (from Theosophy?) or was it a completely fictional creation?

Another fictional character, King Peacock from Alan Moore's TOP TEN comic book, had an interesting relationship with a kind of spiritual nature of the material universe. I believe his "devil" Melek Taus is based on the Yezidi's Peacock Angel or "Angel of Evil." Is there a mystical practice related to this entity similar to forming a covenant with the animating forces of nature and the material universe?

19:40 / 19.09.06

This whole field is pretty screwed up, especially since there are a lot of people with political and ideological interests in distorting what little historical record exists.

Jewish tradition says that Terach, the father of Abraham, the first Jew, manufactured idols in the city of Ur, in Babylon. While that's pretty questionable, I would assume that the predecessors of the Jews probably worshipped Levantine or Mesopotamian gods.

As I understand it, it's quite possible that the early Hebrews were simply a branch of the Canaanites (possibly mixed with early nomadic groups like the Habiru) that later made up the exile-and-return story of the Bible as a unifying myth.

The Bible is especially critical of Ba'al (or Hadad), who seems to have been the god of a competing group of Canaanites, while El was the god of the early Hebrews. The Bible later (Exodus 6.2–3) expressly equates El with the storm god Yahweh, which might have been an attempt to reconcile Canaanite worshippers of El with more nomadic worshippers of Yahweh.

Some other Jewish names of God may correspond with other deities -- there's more here.

There's also the Jewish tradition of the Shekhinah, which is sort of a feminine Jewish equivalent of the Holy Ghost. And Kabbalistic tradition has a pretty detailed angelology, which later made its way into Golden Dawn-style magic. (A good discussion of the original sources of this angelology is "Jewish Magic & Superstition," by Joshua Trachtenberg.)

19:41 / 19.09.06

Slipped, I see.

Henningjohnathan

19:52 / 19.09.06

Great links. It is difficult and complex, but this helps a lot - thanks.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

21:38 / 19.09.06

The depictions of Faerie in Strange and Norrel are drawn largely from European folklore, Henningjohnathan. The strange lands, the magical pathways, the abductions and processions, the eerie, inhuman caprice... all very true to the old legends about Fairies.

As to magic based on making alliances with natural forces--well, that's as old as the hills and turns up in a lot of cultures. Usually they're presonified as Gods or Giants or whatnot. (I don't know much about Theosophy so someone else will have to help you there.)

Incidentally, the magic in Strange and Norrel looks fine to me, bearing a resemblance to some of the odd stuff that was going on in the UK before the Reformation. You'd have to check with someone a bit more knowledgable than me about how closely the individual spells might have been derived from existing grimoires.

Henningjohnathan

22:14 / 19.09.06

Are the faerie of Europe and the Jinn of Arabia related in any direct way? I believe that Muslims regard the "devil" (Iblis) to be a Jinn rather than a "fallen angel." Does the devil of European folklore (Old Scratch and so forth) derive back to characters in faerie tales?

00:48 / 20.09.06

Just to follow up, here's an interesting website on what appear to be pre-Hebrew gods.

01:15 / 20.09.06

>> while El was the god of the early Hebrews. The Bible later (Exodus 6.2–3) expressly equates El with the storm god Yahweh, which might have been an attempt to reconcile Canaanite worshippers of El with more nomadic worshippers of Yahweh.

As also seen in "Kal-El", which some have roughtly translated to mean 'son of god.' That wacky Siegel & Shuster!

11:57 / 20.09.06

Actually "ben" means "son of" in Hebrew.

"Kal," to the extent it means anything, means "light" or "swift."

The Ghost of Tom Winter

12:17 / 20.09.06

So you are meditating/shamanic traveling... you think you're just about to trance out or head downward into the spooky cave and...

Your nose starts to itch.

What DO you do?

13:47 / 20.09.06

"I crave your indulgence: my nose itcheth cruelly. What is the custom and usage in this emergence? Prithee, speed, for 'tis but a little time that I can bear it."

None smiled; but all were sore perplexed, and looked one to the other in deep tribulation for counsel. But behold, here was a dead wall, and nothing in English history to tell how to get over it. The Master of Ceremonies was not present: there was no one who felt safe to venture upon this uncharted sea, or risk the attempt to solve this solemn problem. Alas! there was no Hereditary Scratcher. Meantime the tears had overflowed their banks, and begun to trickle down Tom's cheeks. His twitching nose was pleading more urgently than ever for relief. At last nature broke down the barriers of etiquette: Tom lifted up an inward prayer for pardon if he was doing wrong, and brought relief to the burdened hearts of his court by scratching his nose himself.

Personally, I'd scratch it.

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

14:02 / 20.09.06

Personally, I wouldn't.

That is, if there is such a thing, kind of the point.

If you go to a Vipassana retreat, your knees are going to fucking hurt. Unless you are used to sitting for 10 hours a day, for 10 days straight, trust me, your knees will fucking hurt.

Some people get up and leave. Others don't. Maybe both get the benefit. Maybe getting up and leaving is a sign of True Really True Honestly Actually True Enlightenment. Or maybe not. Maybe that pain / itch is a large part of what you are investigating by meditating in the first place.

What did you do?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

14:11 / 20.09.06

What Butterless said. Sometimes it's elaborate rituals involving hooks, chains, sutures, restaints and a dude with a cat'o'nine tails... and sometimes it's an itchy nose. Get over it.

14:35 / 20.09.06

It is about being in a sincere space and knowing in that moment what is the appropriate action.

I've done ritual work were it was important to tend to the needs of the body as they arose as a way of synching up and others were it was required to override them. Really it is about context of what is going on.

When you have to override the urge I find there are two good approaches both involve a focus on breath work. The first is to focus on the sensation and the movement of time the discomfort is only a moment and you are breathing through it until it passes. This works really well for things like tattoo distraction when you can't move but you've got an itch. The other is to refocus on something else perhaps a mental exercise or just your breathing until you lose awareness of anything else, including the itch.

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