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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

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E. Coli from the Milky Way

10:27 / 10.10.06

I heard that the reason because number 13 is believed to be evil is because it relates to the 13 cicles of the moon in a year -- calendar according to femenine cycles. Don't remember the source ...

12:16 / 10.10.06

The cycles of the moon combined with the day of Venus? Yeah, sounds pretty anti-feminist.
However, I'd always heard that the number thirteen came from the number of people at a witches sabbat. Twelve coveners and one Satan.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:20 / 10.10.06

I thought it was people at the Last Supper (12 disciples + 1 Jesus = 13), which my brane has decided was on a Friday although why I think that I couldn't tell you.

12:48 / 10.10.06

"According to all four Gospels (Matthew 27:62; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:31) Jesus died on Preparation Day (the day before the Sabbath), which would make it a Friday." -Wikipedia

Hence Good Friday... the Last Supper wasn't on the same day as the crucifixion was it? Might have been where you got the day from.

14:24 / 10.10.06

In Chinese hotels, there's no fourth floor, and the airlines don't have a fourth row. 13 is fine, though.

"Four" and "death" are homonyms in Mandarin.

24 is also no good because doubling things (adding a two) makes them more potent.

----

The top review for this book has lots of fascinating history. One of the things it points out is that the Friday thing and the 13 thing used to be separate things, until a book called Friday the 13th was published in 1907.

Friday, by the way, was traditionally a day of sorrow, fasting and abstinence -- the tradition of Catholics eating fish on Friday was because they were abstaining from meat.

14:29 / 10.10.06

Oh, and the Last Supper happened on Passover. I think it was a Sabbath, too, but I'm not sure. The next morning, Christ was arrested, then dragged before Pilate, who sent him off to Herod, who sent him back to Pilate. I think that took more than a day.

But wait!

The meal is considered by most scholars likely to have been a Passover Seder, celebrated on the Thursday night (Holy Thursday) before Jesus was crucified on Friday (Good Friday). This belief is based on the chronology of the Synoptic Gospels, but the chronology in the Gospel of John has the Last Supper occurring before the Passover, for in that Gospel, Christ's death occurs at the time of the slaughter of the Passover lambs (this latter chronology is the one accepted by the Orthodox Church). Several scholars have questioned this chronology, and have rejected the assumption that the synoptics refer to the Passover Seder and held that they are harmonious with John. Some Christians believe that a thorough examination of the Gospels indicates that the Last Supper was on a Tuesday, and that Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday.

17:34 / 10.10.06

Thanks all. So the 13th is a Christian thing, and maybe the Friday thing is too, hmm. grant- great links, thanks! Maybe that's one reason the Chinese have five elements not four.

Disco is My Class War

17:59 / 10.10.06

Quick reportback on my first even slightly magic working for a very long time, and in response to the tips about herbs back a page or so... On Saturday night I fired up the brick barbeque in our backyard and did some throwing on of romemary, for healing, and sage, for general cleaning out the psychic cobwebs and 'starting afresh' vibes. It was a really lovely night, the moon was in cloudless attendance. I've been a lot more healthy lately and my energy is starting to rise. Yay! More Templing for me.

21:19 / 10.10.06

^777th post.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

21:35 / 10.10.06

That's great news, MD.

12:28 / 11.10.06

I'm a-thinking of a thread on food spirituality and specificly prayer. Is there one I just can't find search wise, or should I start one?

anyone else interested in this sort of discussion?

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

13:07 / 11.10.06

xk - you mean something about blessing food before you eat it, for example? or more like using food in ritual? I guess I'd be interested in either.

13:18 / 11.10.06

the whole thing really, put specificly praying before eating and blessing food. I guess I'm into discussing food as ritual in a broad sense just out of general curiousity.

13:24 / 11.10.06

Since this is the stupid questions thread, maybe someone could give an explanation of the significance of 777?

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

13:56 / 11.10.06

Sorry in advance

Gematria. Hebrew. Aleister Crowley. It means many, many, many things.

In Hebrew, letters are numbers. Each letter has a corresponding number, and meaning. The letter zayin has the number 7. Zayin means sword. There's one for ya.

The addition of the numbers in these hebrew letters is a process called Gematria. Gematria attempts to explain the significance of things, and compare words or phrases that have the same numbers in relation to one another. Words, phrases, sentences, books which have corresponding numerical values are believed to correspond 'cosmically'.

In the first chapter of Genesis, it states "In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and earth."
Elohim, Heavens, Earth = 777

The phrase 'One is the Ruach of the Elohim of Lives' = 777

The phrase 'The world of shells' = 777
This is from the concept of Qliphoth in Kabbalah. Qliphoth is basically the negative runoff from the process of creation.

The phrase 'Man of prayer' = 777

Another concept that demonstrates the significance of 777 comes from the Kabbalistic diagram of the Tree of Life. Between each sphere on the tree, there is a path. All in all, there are 22 paths, one for each letter of the Hebrew alphabet. If you study Kabbalah you'll come across a concept referred to as the flaming sword that follows these specific paths, it has the gematria of 777. The paths are aleph, daleth, gimel, teth, lamed, nun, peh, resh, and tav. Now, because there is no actual corresponding path from the flaming sword and the Tree of Life, gimel is attributed to this 'phantom' path. None the less, you get 777.

There, now you don't have to.

Google is, however, your friend.

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

13:59 / 11.10.06

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

14:04 / 11.10.06

Even more about 777

14:07 / 11.10.06

777 and other Quabalistic Writings of Aleister Crowley by Israel Regardie.

Otherwise 777 is considered the number of God by some as 666 is the sign of the Beast and five is the number of man etc.

14:11 / 11.10.06

whoops, triple-cross-post!

20:15 / 11.10.06

I have a dilema and was hoping for some advice from the good people in the temple. I work in a book shop and have received a book order for something I consider a bit dodgey.

Click on the ISBN for full description

Normally, if someone orders something a bit grotty I role my eyes and process the order. Occasonally I refuse (only once in four years for a man ordering a book on directing pornography). My problem is that the orderer is part of a nondenominational church that lets space in the upper floors of our city center building. They are a nice group of people who do outreach work with homeless, disabled and dibilitatingly ill people. They have open house bread baking sessions and generally do good stuff. I asked the worker who ordered the book if she had ever met a person who had experienced this kind of abuse. When she answered yes I bit my tongue from asking how many survivors of catholic abuse she had come accross.

I have had a mooch around the subject and what is available and ordered them a little pamphlet from the Pagan Federation that hopefully will give them a bit of context. There is another text that totaly debunks the notion of satanist abuse as a widspread problem, but I'm not sure how useful it is to force this on her.

Click on the book cover for full description

Dear Temple, what should I do? Is this non of my business? Should I leave them to their god fearing delusions? Is there actually a genuine phenominum that deserves analysis and treatment other than the levels of abuse you might expect within any community that requires specialist abuse treatment other than that which any abuse survivor might find helpful? Is it OK to dismiss claims of abuse from anyone no matter how their experiences might be being manipulated, after all childeren hsould be heard and believed. I feel like I would if someone had ordered anything that propagated bigotry. What is the Temple's opinion of Satanic Abuse?

Sorry to those who might get more than a little pissed off for what ever reason and apologies for dumping this into your day if it's pushing painful buttons.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

21:37 / 11.10.06

Oh gahh on toast, poor you for having to deal with this.

Bottom line: No, it is not a real phenomenon. Every single case of organised ritual Satanic abuse has been quite thoroughly debunked (dudes, this came up in a thread earlier this year, IIRC--anyone recall which one? There was a good link on the Satanic Panic) leaving one or two cases of child abuse that happened to include a ritual componant and countless children traumatised by being separated from their non-abusive parents, adults burdened with hideous false memories of torture that never happened, families torn apart and lives ruined. I certainly believe in listening to the children, but maybe someone should have listened when they were denying the abuse and begging to go home.

How you decide to handle the situation is up to you, but you have no duty to propagate this kind of thing. (Personally I'd say this was a metric shedload worse than wanting a book on directing porn.) Perhaps you could put together some materials to show this person which present a more resoned point of veiw?

21:44 / 11.10.06

Err... is there a thread for getting help finding threads on certain spiritual subjects? I've noticed you folks don't think quite the same way I do, and so things are often a bit sideways to how I would expect to find them.

Today I'm looking for discussion of the design of rituals for honoring ancestors and the beloved dead. Dumb suppers, Chinese paper burning, Dia De Los Muertos - not a discussion per se of the relative merits of the theory behind them, so much as a compare and contrast of our experiences with the rituals themselves. I'm looking for fodder to find what works for me in this area, as I find myself all but pushed into a better understanding of the forms involved.

--Ember--

Less searchable M0rd4nt

22:02 / 11.10.06

Errr... I think that might be because we haven't really got anything like that. There's a couple of really good threads touching on ancestor worship, two fairly recent ones on funerals and honouring the dead, and one from last year on t3h Darque Necromancy, but unless my memory is playing me false we don't have a good solid experiential thread. Thing is, until relatively recently we just didn't have that many people who engaged in that kind of activity and were prepared to talk about it.

22:19 / 11.10.06

That's okay - I'm willing to start a new thread if there isn't one. I just didn't want to start a new thread without being reasonably sure I should, you know?

--Ember--

22:26 / 11.10.06

What is the Temple's opinion of Satanic Abuse?

Well, to start, i think it is utter bollocks. Scary dangerous bollocks, but bollocks nonetheless.

You're in a tricky situation Redtara as its your job to supply the book. However, i'd try and slip a few book recomendations, web sites links and information along with the book when it arrives.

First stop is that the book was written in 1994. The late 80s and early 90s were when a lot of the 'satanic abuse' cases came about (in the UK. In the US it started sooner). If your customer is really interested i'd suggest, that you suggest, them getting in touch with the BBC and getting hold of a documentary made recently called Satanic abuse: The truth at last . One of the most heartbreaking documentaries i've ever seen. So many people and families broken to bits by this sort of shit.

Bookswise i can't recommend any as i haven't read much in this area, although i'm sure some Barbs have. There is Speak of the Devil , Suzanne Ruthvens, Malleus Satani (i've read some of her other books on other subjects and whilst they are ok, i wouldn't expect much in an in depth analysis way).

I'm sure there are many more. And i'm sure that there are loads of websites with infomation to pass on.

This sort of 'Satanic Abuse' myth is so, so dangerous (one of the main reasons for Genesis P Orridge being 'exiled' from the UK..(that sham has to be read or seen to be believed..i mean..what the fuck?! C4 Doc with Jarman for fucks sake!)

The many families that have been drawn into it and destroyed, not just within living memory! Within the last 15 years!!...

Good luck with your customer Redtara. I'd say, 'Just talk sense'. Boy! this stuff makes me angry!

Less searchable M0rd4nt

22:34 / 11.10.06

Yes, I will certainly be back with links in the morning when I have my head on straight.

22:39 / 11.10.06

Again with your problem with the book Redtara.

I'd just say, 'Here is your book sir. You DO know that it was written in 1994 and, as such, it is dreadfully out of date'.

22:41 / 11.10.06

Good enough, Ta.

22:48 / 11.10.06

Just to clarify, the BBC doc was called , 'When Satan Comes to Town'.

23:00 / 11.10.06

Also, Redtara, there are loads of questions from your first post that could easily turn into a thread on the matter. It is a huge, complicated, emotive subject. Like MD says, i'm sure there was a related thread at one point in the Temple. Can't seem to find one at the moment though.

23:25 / 11.10.06

Presumably the root cause of the "Satanic Abuse" witch-hunts is sexual repression? I haven't read much on the subject but I can't quite imagine sex-healthy cultures whipping themselves up into murderous fevers imagining their children ravished by foul sub-humans. Conversely, there's no way Gen P-Orridge would've suffered that shit if he hadn't been "The Tampon Man" etc. And if it is a sexual blockage then, redtara, your awkward situation now could be the direct karmic result of your imposing "morality" on the guy wanting the "directing pornography" book, couldn't it?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

23:53 / 11.10.06

I see it all now. A book on directing porn is by definition a nice, healthy, pro-sex item, devoid of any negative associations (the commercial porn industry being the liberating and egalitarian funfest that we all know it to be), the suppression of which will automatically call down a plague of Satanic-panic nutters to order discomfortingly bigoted texts just to put you in your place.

Holy fucking cats.

23:57 / 11.10.06

It was mostly Child Psychologists veering wildly out of control, not sexual repression. Weird power asymmetry where children get convinced they were abused when nothing happened by adults acting out a narrative they convinced themselves of.
And I hope this; your awkward situation now could be the direct karmic result of... is a joke, ha ha.

00:00 / 12.10.06

drink me...

Presumably the root cause of the "Satanic Abuse" witch-hunts is sexual repression?

Why do you think that?

I haven't read much on the subject but I can't quite imagine sex-healthy cultures whipping themselves up into murderous fevers imagining their children ravished by foul sub-humans.

Can you please direct me to any 'sex-healthy cultures'. I would love to find out where they are.

And if it is a sexual blockage then, redtara, your awkward situation now could be the direct karmic result of your imposing "morality" on the guy wanting the "directing pornography" book, couldn't it?

So, let me get this straight. What you are saying is that because Redtara has previously objected to pornography, or getting in pornography, through hir shop, that 'karma' deals hir with a bloke who wants to buy a book on Satanic Abuse. Ok

Is that what you are saying?

(By the way...I should say that i fucking love Pornography in many forms....i drool at the feet of SEX! )

00:19 / 12.10.06

Sorry redtara, Dear Temple, what should I do?;
What armed with madness says, before you hand over the book let them know that it turned out it was all a lie. Like selling old nazi rune books, your responsibility ends at making people aware.

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