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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

 
  

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Quantum
12:28 / 16.07.06
Rosicrucian chess, and this might interest you.
 
 
Unconditional Love
14:53 / 16.07.06
Looking at enochian chess it seems that it could well be a complete magical system in and of itself In old times, chess-players sought upon their chess-board the solution of philosophical and religious problems, and argued silently with each other in manoeuvering the hieroglyphic characters across the numbers. Our vulgar game of goose, revived from the old Grecian game, and also attributed to Palamedes, is nothing but a chess-board with motionless figures and numbers movable by means of dice. It is a Tarot disposed in the form of a wheel, for the use of aspirants to initiation. (Lévi 1972 p 195).
(about six eighthes down the page) The game seems to have its systematic basis in this game Chaturanga
A relationship to the tarot is emphasised in play Official Ritual
Click on images of boards for more tarot reference An example of the colour coding of the boards methods of colouring the elemental tablets
A brief inroduction to the game is avalible here.
The marriage of the I Ching and Chess.
 
 
Quantum
17:45 / 24.07.06
Persian magic. WTF? I was going to contribute something to the Djinn thread about the difference between Sufism and indigenous pre-Islam Persian magic, but it's really hard to google and wikipedia is a bit sparse on it. The best information I've got is in a well researched RPG supplement but I'd rather have more reliable detail.
Anyone?
 
 
Ticker
17:57 / 24.07.06
Do you mean pre-Zoroastrianism magics?
 
 
Ticker
18:16 / 24.07.06
Sorry that was a bit terse. I do believe before Zoroaster the religion of the Persian 'area' was polytheistic and Vedic.

Here's the best link I could find for you Vedic Pre-Zoroastrian

Tracing from the religion might help you with scholarly work on the magic.
 
 
Quantum
18:46 / 24.07.06
Ta, will read that article. It's the pre-Achaemenid era I'm most interested in (before 600 BC, so just about pre-Zarathushtra/Zoroaster, if it's true he died 588 BC and not 1000 BC).
 
 
trouser the trouserian
05:02 / 25.07.06
Qants
Subhash Kak - the guy who wrote the article xk linked to above - comes across sometimes like the father on "Goodness Gracious Me" who insists to his son that everything is "Indian" in origin. So for example, Kak reckons that most of the key events & myths of Christianity were actually "borrowed" from Buddhism & the Vedas; that India was the cradle of civilisation, and that all sciences known to the Greeks and other ancient civilisations came from - (you guessed it) - India. I'm not advocating discounting his ideas entirely, but I do think you need to keep a critical eye open.
 
 
Unconditional Love
08:44 / 25.07.06
Picatrix

Picatrix (The Aim of the Sage)

The Picatrix: Lunar Mansions in Western Astrology


The Picatrix is presented as a manual on sympathetic and astral magic. It was written in Arab more than likely around the 12th century and holds the secret of the talismans as practised by the Arabs of Harran.


Above links to the arabian grimoire Picatrix, have not found an online copy as of yet.
 
 
Quantum
08:52 / 25.07.06
Having read it I'm inclined to agree. Not to doubt the importance of the Vedic tradition, but that article seemed to be a bit... fervent.
Where did this seven thousand year old Jiroft civilization spring from I wonder? INDIA!
 
 
Unconditional Love
09:12 / 25.07.06
Islamic Medieval Magical and Medical manuscripts

Catalogue page, containing a variety of links to differing magical and medical areas, takes a while to explore the site but well worth the while, has various notes to prominent arabian alchemists, and images of original texts and diagramatic representations, i didnt find it very friendly to browse, worth the effort thou.
 
 
Quantum
09:17 / 25.07.06
M.A.R. you're confusing me- that's from the advanced Islamic civilization which flourished between 800-1400 A.D, and it's from Spain. I am interested in the stuff a thousand years earlier, pre-Islam, from Persia (Iran).
 
 
Unconditional Love
09:35 / 25.07.06
Just one more before washing up and taking a bath.

Magic squares

After reading some of the above or grimoires in general i found this useful to help me understand something i never could get my head around. Scroll to the bottom of the page for a translation of the De quadratis magicis.

Magic squares received their name because there are so many relationships between the sums of the numbers filling the squares.
 
 
Quantum
10:17 / 25.07.06
Are these questions MAR?
 
 
Unconditional Love
11:01 / 25.07.06
No, they are in a way answers to questions. Perhaps a thread on the science and philosophy of grimoires is needed.
 
 
Ticker
12:18 / 25.07.06
Yeah I agree about Subhash Kak, his stuff did sound a bit "100% Vedic!"
But it might be worth shaking to see if any of it is valid.
 
 
Daemon est Deus Inversus
18:27 / 27.07.06
"I don't care if it rains or freezes,
Just so long as I have my plastic Jesus
On the dashboard of my car
Going 90 I ain't scary
Cause I have the Virgin Mary
Telling me that I won't go to Hell."
 
 
Quantum
08:28 / 28.07.06
Is that a question DEDI?
 
 
grant
13:48 / 28.07.06
Is it an answer?


-----

For more on "The marriage of Chess and I Ching," if you're really interested, here's a page on lingqijing. The "qi" in that word refers to board games in Chinese, especially xiangqi or "Chinese chess," which is what chaturanga became when it moved east out of India instead of west. Lingqijing (Ling Ch'i Ching) is a book outlining an oracle similar to the Yijing (I Ching) using disks related Chinese chess pieces.

There are only two English translations of the work (see below), one of which translates the 'magical chess-pieces' as 'spirit tokens'. 'Empowered draughts' is another possible translation. The oracle is consulted by dropping 12 of these 'chess-pieces' to the ground, which forms a 'trigraph' and points you to one of 125 possible oracular pronouncements.

Cool stuff.
 
 
Unconditional Love
14:38 / 29.07.06
Hey fantastic grant.

This isnt related, where to begin, ok, i once read that the tibetan tradition places wrathful deities in the head and peaceful deities in the heart, i think in relation to the book of the dead. I have often looked for a way to reconcile the ideas of christian angels and demons, i tryed to postulate them as two sides of the same entity and have also thought about where angels and demons may be placed in the christian body, for want of better words. I would think angels in the head and demons in the heart/gut. I trying to see if its possible to create a cosmology where angels and demons arent so much at war, as generally represented, but as partners in a process of creation and destruction.

I have a feeling from the little insight i have from purused grimoires that this is a context that a magician can work from, especially when these entities are percieved to be of a bodily intelligence or unconscious.

Something else grabs me from what is described as shamanic cosmology, from what i understand the cosmolgoy has no division when it comes to ideas of heaven and hell, although they may at times be pitted against each other, they are considered nessecary parts of a whole structure. Rather than say as opposed or competeing parts.

I guess what i am aiming for is an integrated christian magical approach that doesnt overemphasise any one aspect of christian beliefs or mythology to the detriment of the other or others.

The point of comparing these forces to bodily intelligence, thoughts and emotions would be to show the worth of what maybe considered demonic for example Jealousy at someone elses popularitiy due to there voluntary work may motivate somebody else to go out and do good works to try to gain a sense of prestige of similar nature and help others in the process. Envy becomes a strong motivating factor, that as long as it doesnt colour the work, achieves what many would percieve to be a good, or perhaps angelic goal. The idea being that angelic and demonic motivations may serve each other and that perhaps the cosmology is structured like that for these complex mythological christian interactions to take place.

Anyway, intresting? or am i just thinking way too much or too little?
 
 
aku aku
17:26 / 08.08.06
What type of Yoga is most compatible with Thelema/Golden Dawn work?

I'm keen to take it up, but there's a whole lot of different types about, any ideas?
 
 
ORA ORA ORA ORAAAA!!
06:42 / 10.08.06
I'm not sure where to put this, so it's going here:
has anyone ever heard of, or had dealings with, someone called Louisa Whitehouse?
It's a longshot, but a friend of mine is getting some pretty weird mail sent to him, from her, which is basically printouts of emailed rants againts various people, and pages of scrawled diagrams and tables of correspondence and other odd occult-flavoured stuff.
And it's kind of freaking him out.
words that come up fairly regularly are ananda, sanada, imare (as in, Louisa Whitehouse, Imare), a bunch of stuff about the pleiades, ashtar command, etc.

And ideas who this person is and what they want?
 
 
illmatic
07:41 / 10.08.06
aku aku: some of the discussion in current threads round here seems to be agreeing that Crowley and the Golden Dawn only had a limited understanding of yoga, it being based on the limitations of scholarship and understanding of the Indian traditons available back in their day, and things have moved on. If you're interested in the meditative side, perhaps you could pick up some translations of the Yoga Sutras out now. But an engagement with the bodily side, Hatha Yoga, is going to do you now bloody harm at all. Evesig is probably the peson to ask about this, have a look through his recent posts.

Red Frog: Never heard of her, but she sounds like your standard occult loony.
 
 
EvskiG
14:20 / 10.08.06
aku aku:

As GH notes, in my opinion (for whatever it's worth) Crowley had an incredibly limited understanding of hatha yoga and pranayama -- in part based on the limited scholarship at the time. Better to go with something a bit more modern.

Truth is that pretty much any hatha-style yoga class should serve as a good start. I'd look for something that focuses heavily on the postures and eschews gimmicks (lots of chanting, lots of dogma, "hot yoga," etc.).

The Yoga Journal website is a great place to start looking.

With that said, I've been practicing Iyengar-style hatha yoga since 1992, and I think it's the best form around. Low bullshit, low dogma, fantastic teachers.

The guy who created the system, B.K.S. Iyengar, is the author of the definitive hatha yoga guide "Light on Yoga" (as well as plenty of other books on the subject). He's 88 years old and still practicing, too.

What makes Iyengar yoga distinctive? First, it heavily uses props (wooden blocks, ropes, etc.) so people of all flexibility levels can work the poses to the extent of their ability. Second, it focuses on preciseness of alignment in the poses, which (among other things) minimizes the risk of injury. Third, it involves holding poses for a fair amount of time, which builds strength. Fourth, all Iyengar teachers go through several years of training before they can teach classes, and have to continue regular training with senior teachers throughout their careers.

Here's the website for the London Iyengar studio.

Just FYI, looks like a book is coming out shortly called The Weiser Concise Guide to Yoga for Magic, which seems to be exactly what you're looking for. I have absolutely no idea what's in it.
 
 
Ticker
14:29 / 10.08.06
Not to get too thread rotty but I really love the mellowness of my Hatha Yoga classes. Might just be my beloved instructor but I dug the accessibility of the practice for people with not-so-perfect bodies. I creak therefore I am. (not so true these days)

I also really like the related Ashtanga for flow and breath. I find it a bit more demanding (I suspect it's just the way the two are taught) but it is now the basis of my practice.

However I didn't care for Bikram Yoga though some of my mates are lifers. It was too hot and I missed the flow of posture sequences. Over all I'd stress that there are lots of ways to learn but having a teacher live in the room with you is the best way.

For the record I use daily small doses of yoga to keep my back healthy as I was forever plagued with spinal/hip alignment problems. Also I have replaced my office chair with a giant exercise ball. This combined with my exercise has eliminated the awful pain I used to experience as a desk jockey.
 
 
Quantum
14:55 / 10.08.06
I have replaced my office chair with a giant exercise ball.

That's pure genius. I'm going to force my work to buy me a Space Hopper. y'know, for my back.

 
 
Ticker
15:07 / 10.08.06
It also prevented a sales guy form stealing my 'chair' while I was on vacation.

He was all like 'hhaha I went to borrow your chair but it was a ball! hahaha'
Bastard chair stealing asshat...
If I seem overly harsh this was the same asshat that responded to the story of skunk living under my house with 'of course there's a skunk under your house, you're a witch!'

The look of withering scorn the lead programmer gave him was priceless though...
Everyone looked at the sales guy like 'Dude, you're an ass."
Me and my stripey socks get only repsect even if I do sit on a giant inflated ball.
 
 
Unconditional Love
18:15 / 13.08.06
Rudra,

I started work with a kind of rudra mantra yesterday, just the word rudra at the moment rather than a traditional mantra, so far i have encountered extreme anger welling up from my spine and contorting my face until it felt like the veins in my forehead would burst, followed by highly vocalised rage, and a sort of screaming at everything sensation without the scream.

Its been a profound relief of stress, so much so that i have been vibrating from the spine upwards while performing it and almost achieveing the yogic cobra posture without the aid of my arms. Its very intense during recitation but the most beautiful calm assaults my body afterwards, a kind of clearing out, as if all the crying at the world my mind contains comes out in the intake of rud and the out breath of ra.

I have been very happy and alive all of today.

Anybody else ever tryed to work with rudra or other aspects of shiva, that can relate there experiences?
 
 
EvskiG
19:20 / 15.08.06
Haven't done that, but I just found an interesting Shaivite LBRP-type ritual in the latest issue of Lion & Serpent (pages 20-25) that might be right up your alley.

It also has the first part of an interesting article on working with archetypes and deities by a practicing occultist and psychologist.
 
 
Unconditional Love
21:08 / 15.08.06
I enjoyed both articles EvkG especially the jungian archetypes article which reminds me of a book i am a third of the way through, Pregnant darkness - alchemy and the rebirth of consciousness by Monika Wikman, she offers alot of life situations that are related to clients she has dealt with and the alchemical process and archetypes involved.

Not so sure about the shivite LBRP, although i will have to experience it to see, I have found this , from the traditional vedic standpoint and aim to give it a listen in the near future to see how informative it could be Shiva puja Lots of other pujas avalible on the web site.
 
 
Ticker
13:56 / 16.08.06
EvkG

The article on Archetypal work/possession was very informative. Thank you for posting the link.
 
 
EvskiG
19:10 / 16.08.06
No problem.

I've been thinking about Jung quite a bit lately -- especially his role as a fully-fledged magician who didn't call himself a magician -- which probably will lead to a long post in the near future.

For example, here's Jung's technique of "active imagination," which seems relevant to the whole invocation/possession discussion that's been burbling in the Temple lately:

The object of active imagination is to give a voice to sides of the personality (particularly the anima/animus and the shadow) that are normally not heard, thereby establishing a line of communication between consciousness and the unconscious. Even when the end products -- drawing, painting, writing, sculpture, dance, music, etc. -- are not interpreted, something goes on between creator and creation that contributes to a transformation of consciousness.

The first stage of active imagination is like dreaming with open eyes. It can take place spontaneously or be artificially induced.

In the latter case you choose a dream, or some other fantasy-image, and concentrate on it by simply catching hold of it and looking at it. You can also use a bad mood as a starting-point, and then try to find out what sort of fantasy-image it will produce, or what image expresses this mood. You then fix this image in the mind by concentrating your attention. Usually it will alter, as the mere fact of contemplating it animates it. The alterations must be carefully noted down all the time, for they reflect the psychic processes in the unconscious background, which appear in the form of images consisting of conscious memory material. In this way conscious and unconscious are united, just as a waterfall connects above and below.

The second stage, beyond simply observing the images, involves a conscious participation in them, the honest evaluation of what they mean about oneself, and a morally and intellectually binding commitment to act on the insights. This is a transition from a merely perceptive or aesthetic attitude to one of judgment.

Although, to a certain extent, [the imaginer] looks on from outside, impartially, he is also an acting and suffering figure in the drama of the psyche. . . . if you recognize your own involvement you yourself must enter into the process with your personal reactions, just as if you were one of the fantasy figures, or rather, as if the drama being enacted before your eyes were real. . . .

The avowed purpose of this involvement is to integrate the statements of the unconscious, to assimilate their compensatory content, and thereby produce a whole meaning which alone makes life worth living and, for not a few people, possible at all.
 
 
Quantum
14:41 / 17.08.06
Here's a question- how far can you go without using gods and/or spirits in your work?
 
 
Doc Checkmate
15:02 / 17.08.06
What do you mean by "use?" Deliberately seek out and interact with? Or encounter during the course of your work, even if that wasn't the main point? Or both, or something else?

I ask because very little of my magical work is entity-oriented--not much invocation, evocation, etc--so I'd say it's definitely possible to do quite a bit without "using" spirits in that respect. But in my astral work I end up coming across entities pretty often, just as a basic feature of hanging out in weird head-locales. Is it spirit work if you bump into them while you're going about your business?
 
 
EvskiG
17:01 / 17.08.06
Here's a question- how far can you go without using gods and/or spirits in your work?

I've gone almost 20 years (and achieved at least some magical success, I think) without using or encountering gods or spirits in any substantial, meaningful way.

I've made some efforts to do entity work over the years -- everything from Crowley's Liber Astarte to working with icons (Shiva, Chango, even Superman) to heavy doses of psychedelics -- but with a few notable but rare exceptions, no real contact. What's more, for better or worse it just doesn't seem to fit in with my personal style or manner of thinking.

(I view it in a Jungian sense, as making conscious contact with other real but unconscious parts of the mind that the ego considers to be "alien" or outside the self.)

I've given this matter an enormous amount of thought over the years -- as recently as last night, when I tried and failed to make contact with any entities while on Salvia, and as recently as this morning, when I was reading Jung on the bus to work.

Seems to me that making solid contact with an entity that seems to be outside of one's self -- whether it's with Odin, Legba, or your own Holy Guardian Angel -- is seen by many traditions and practitioners as a key stepping stone in magical progress, the step where a practitioner goes from a journeyman to an expert. But while I've done my share of work in a variety of traditions for a long time, that sort of contact has evaded me to date.

Perhaps I'm the magical equivalent of color-blind. Perhaps entities don't exist, and those who think they do are deluding themselves. Or perhaps I simply haven't given it enough effort. I really don't know.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears.
 
 
Doc Checkmate
17:12 / 17.08.06
DMT?
 
  

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