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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

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Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:07 / 24.08.06

Seriously, everyone needs to chill the fuck out about Loki.

In my experience the Son of Laufey does not give a monkey's about little things like how He's portrayed in some graphic novel by some guy He doesn't even work with (hint: Neil Gaiman has not spontaneously combusted). I strongly suspect He may actually get off on the attention. He loves being painted, drawn, sung to and written about.

If I were to sit down and write a story in which Loki featured as the villain I could end up in serious hot water, but that's because I have an ongoing relationship with old Sparky and it wouldn't be cool to suddenly start slagging Him off, any more than it would be okay to slag off my mates. I can say things which are critical but true and even be a bit cheeky, but if I were to start slandering Him there would be... consequences.

You, on the other hand, have no such commitments. Try and separate the 'real' Loki from the graphic-novel character of the same name. If you felt up to it you could put together a little offering, explain the sitch and make it clear that you mean no offense. I can give you some pointers if you want.

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

12:58 / 24.08.06

(You've got a a dead raven to play with? Dude, that's so cool.)

right in the middle of doing a lot of raven-related stuff, in fact right before my big offering was ready, I'm on my way to work and right in my path is a totally whole, non-smashed dead raven. and at first I thought "whoa, that can't be a good omen" but it didn't feel bad. so instead I'm going to make something artsy out of the bones. the whatsis I have in mind is some kind of a cross between a wind chime and a dream catcher I guess. go bonk and talk to me in the night.

thanks all for the advice, sounds right on...

13:29 / 24.08.06

Thanks for giving me a little perspective on the situation Mordant. What you have to say is quite helpful. I may PM you later if I feel I'm getting in over my head.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

13:47 / 24.08.06

Sure, feel free. If I've helped at all, I'm glad.

14:17 / 24.08.06

right in the middle of doing a lot of raven-related stuff, in fact right before my big offering was ready, I'm on my way to work and right in my path is a totally whole, non-smashed dead raven. and at first I thought "whoa, that can't be a good omen" but it didn't feel bad. so instead I'm going to make something artsy out of the bones. the whatsis I have in mind is some kind of a cross between a wind chime and a dream catcher I guess. go bonk and talk to me in the night.

If you are in the middle of doing Raven work and were gift one I'd strongly suggest you give an offering of thanks to the bird before working with the remains.

That said, I've found working with boiling with salt works best. I boil my bones a few times in a salt water (after cleaning as grant suggests) and then drying the bones in salt to pull out the excess water.

Birds are easier than animals with higher fat content.

If you are going to be doing any long term bone work Dermestid beetles are the way to go.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

14:25 / 24.08.06

Yeah, you should probably go back where you found him and say Thankyou. I don't know what your trad requires; if it was me I'd put down some food for the ravens in the area, maybe offer some small-denomination coins. I'd definately return any raven parts I wasn't going to use back to the area where I found him, or to the nearest wilderness area if that wasn't possible.

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

16:32 / 24.08.06

well, like I said, I was literally doing an offering to ravens in the first place when I found him, so it was kind of automatically taken care of, though I definitely added some extra thank-you thoughts because of it. however

I'd definately return any raven parts I wasn't going to use back to the area where I found him, or to the nearest wilderness area if that wasn't possible.

that sounds like a good idea. better than just tossing bits out.

a taxidermy site I found had a lot of variations on the boiling including baking soda, various kinds of soaking preparation, simmering not boiling...it all sounds like more or less the same idea though.

in a related question (more arts and crafts): how to make homemade ink? that would work well when applied to bone? how much blood can you put in ink before it will tend to spoil? and is there some kind of easy preservative to keep blood from spoiling when stored? etc?

Unconditional Love

16:47 / 24.08.06

If you have the time, bury the corpse and let nature take its course and then retrive the bones, i am guessing you dont, but thats what i used to do in my vision work, and under took with the body of a fox many years back, you can ritualise the whole process and then retrive the bones from the earth itf it is still appropriate.

When time is a consideration thou i guess i would work with the most effective method.

17:01 / 24.08.06

in a related question (more arts and crafts): how to make homemade ink? that would work well when applied to bone? how much blood can you put in ink before it will tend to spoil? and is there some kind of easy preservative to keep blood from spoiling when stored? etc?

blood dries more than spoils I've found. Alcohol will keep it liquid while preserving the magical qualities of it but it does separate over time. Shaking eventually fails to do more than kick up the dust.

For ink, how homemade we talking here? From scratch or just all natural? The hennas work very nicely for an organic stain.

here's a berry ink recipe I googled:

Berry ink

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

19:17 / 24.08.06

For ink, how homemade we talking here? From scratch or just all natural?

mm, mostly something I can put some effort into so it's got more of my, uh, Shining in it. (there a better word for that?)

the berry ink sounds perfect. wonder how well it stains bone? guess we'll see.

if I had my own place I'd try the burying thing but...my current location is pretty temporary. and not owned by me. and lots of animals and kids playing around in my dirt. probably a bad idea. (actually the beetle terrarium sounds awesome too...but too much work I think...I don't know how much more of this kind of thing I'll be doing in the future. could be lots, could be never again...)

20:00 / 24.08.06

bury the corpse and let nature take its course and then retrive the bones,

Heheheh -- when I was a kid, I got to take part in a project doing that with a sperm whale. It was a local science museum. The thing beached itself on Nature Conservancy land in Jupiter.

That must have been 30 years ago, and I can still remember the smell.

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

19:45 / 30.08.06

I've now got all the bones mostly cleaned and drying out. Thanks again for the good advice. Both the original offering and the unused raven bits disappeared quite quickly too.

That must have been 30 years ago, and I can still remember the smell.

Boiled raven brains are really, really gross.

Feeling a little bit guilty about how icked out I was by most of this process, in fact. Some ritual stuff is genuinely fun, some ought to be tedious or unpleasant but is made fun by knowing why I'm doing it, and some, like this, remains largely unpleasant. I put it off, I go "eww!" way too much, etc. And then I feel bad.

I guess my question is: How do you people react to unpleasantness (whatever that might mean for you) done in the name of ritual? In a way I guess it might make it worth more that I did it even though I didn't want to, but part of me thinks if I'm not approaching it with the point of view that I love what I'm doing, I shouldn't be doing it. Hmm.

22:52 / 30.08.06

Annapurna is the Hindu Goddess of food, an incarnation of Parvati, the wife of Shiva.

I wanted a statue of her for my kitchen.

For about a year I have had a drawing of some flowers on my noticeboard which I did for her but now I would like to reinforce my relationship with her and since I cannot find a decent statue of her I would like to paint her. I think it would be a valuable dedication.

But I thought I'd ask here before I did this - does anyone know of the characteristics by which she is recognised, or know of a place I can buy a statue of her? I'd like a better description of the representation of her than the one that I have, really.

This is Annapurna on the right, giving alms to Shiva.

00:37 / 31.08.06

I'm not familiar with this goddess in particular, but I came across this: SRI ANNAPURNA-STOTRAM.

It's not much, but it does describe some of her attributes and clothing.

00:39 / 31.08.06

Oh, also this: http://www.lotussculpture.com/12b55parvati.htm

01:14 / 31.08.06

How do you people react to unpleasantness (whatever that might mean for you) done in the name of ritual?

I have a visceral feeling that if something's not at least mildly challenging, then it's not really a proper ritual at all. Probably the fruits of a Catholic upbringing, but there you go.

This might also be why I don't do a lot of ritual stuff -- reading & researching (although a little bit like work) is generally more pleasant.

05:10 / 31.08.06

I don't agree Grant. I think it can be both - very pleasant and very boring, or unpleasant - and it almost crtainly will be both if you do the same thing for any length of time.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

10:29 / 31.08.06

I guess my question is: How do you people react to unpleasantness (whatever that might mean for you) done in the name of ritual?

I find that unpleasantness, when it occurs in the context of ritual, often springs from taboo-busting. Sometimes I'll be called upon to do something merely eww-squick, but other times it might something that lies outside my usual concept of what is ethical, something I find physically uncomfortable or something that generates a fear response.

For one person, this could be enduring pain; for another, cross-dressing; for me it's usually stuff like 'inhale cigar smoke,' 'eat meat' or 'go and spend a night in the woods all by yourself.' Or I might find myself sent to commune with an entity I fear.

Ritual work doesn't have to be unpleasant, but this kind of taboo-breaking work can very, very powerful. It challenges you to look at yourself and the world in a different way, opens you up to new possibilities, broadens your horizons. Look at how many cultures across the world and throughout history use these techniques.

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

13:35 / 31.08.06

Yeah - a lot of this was definitely a "you're not supposed to play with dead things you find on the side of the road" taboo. you're also not supposed to bring the dead things home and have them stink up the apartment you share with two atheist roommates (I did a pretty good job keeping everything in my room, thankfully. I think one of the cats might have got blamed for some smell though. I don't really feel too bad about that. Stupid cats anyway...that might be a raven talking.)

This was definitely a lesson about me not being too good to touch icky dead stuff. Especially considering who I was working with.

And it became legitimately fun to suddenly start seeing the skull take shape under all the half-rotten, half-boiled unk I was pulling off (and, at some level, thinking about eating. shudder.) That happy feeling you get when you're not sure something's going to work and then it does.

Still, feeling a little guilty about all my eww-ing...I've been leaving poptart and toast bits on the way to work, but there were two monstrous ones right there this morning and they didn't seem as interested in my food as in me...

One way or another it's definitely interesting work. Again, thanks for responses.

Henningjohnathan

15:27 / 31.08.06

My question is more about the "stupidity" of the world on the whole and magick's part in it.

It seems like (and things are often not as they seem) Magick and Mysticism since the sixties has played a much larger role in general social life than ever before, BUT, lately, it seems like there is more strife and conflict across the world, not only in the obvious places (the Near East) but just at the grocery store, at the gas station.

My girlfriend recently had her car stolen. It was found, but the process and cost of recovering felt like we were getting robbed twice and tortured at the same time. Heck, just reporting the theft was harder than firewalking.

In general, people seem much unhappier and frustrated lately. I'm seeing more altercations arise when normally people would shrug it off.

Where is Magick in this? Does it have explanations? Offer solutions?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

15:51 / 31.08.06

Okay. So we have a vague sense of there being more magic and mysticism around 'since the Sixties,' coupled with a vague sense of everything going a bit crap 'lately.' Would you care to

1) Support both of these positions with some actual data, other than an anecdote about a stolen car.* For example, I can think of one or two things that occured prior to the '60s that might have seemed pretty grim to those who lived through them. I'd also point out that whilst we in Western Europe may have become more mystically inclined since the '60s, this is not necessarily true of other parts of the world.

2) Support the implication that there's a connection between the two, as you seem to be speculating.

As for solutions... me, I'm all about the grass roots, mate. Make things better for the people around you, if you can. And better yourself. I'd certainly agree that involvement in magic can bring the wanker out in many of us, as this forum demonstrates from time to time. Ask yourself, is my magic making me stronger? Is it empowering me? And is it making me a better person--a better friend, a better neighbour, a better lover, husband, wife? And keep on asking. Keep on checking in. Never give up.

*I am very sorry to hear it, by the way, and also sorry that recovering the car was such a nightmare. I know how that can go.

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

16:54 / 31.08.06

Actually, if such a trend exists - and I tend to believe it doesn't - I might be tempted to connect it to science more than magic. Mysticism, the occult, and religion have been around since forever ago and, if anything, were probably more prevalent in times past then they are now - surely things like the Enlightenment era have put a damper on that stuff which we are, at best, slowly worming our way out of.

Science, on the other hand, grows at a rate which I think maybe you can quantify - I believe there's some (disputed) factoid about how many inventions are made every year and how that number is accelerating. This is understandable since a significant part of those inventions are information or research related, so it becomes easier and easier to invent new stuff. Also, the increasing population has an effect on tech increase.

Science has a huge effect on society - caveman expected to live to be only 25 (good change), but was also missing a magic red button that can blow up a city (bad change). Imagine the effect on society and/or our psyche by having this kind of influence growing and changing at an increasing rate. Things might seem more chaotic and agressive.

Then again, I'm kind of talking out my ass here. Personally, I think people at every point in history tend to say "things are worse than they've ever been before!".

Sorry, to maybe more directly answer your question - I guess it could be related to the mayan calendar ending soon or the age of Horus or whatever. I don't tend to go in for that stuff and am more or less completely uninformed about it.

17:13 / 31.08.06

Personally, I think people at every point in history tend to say "things are worse than they've ever been before!".

According to the Human Security Report (article), despite common fears about increases in war, genocide, and terrorism, "Not one of these claims is based on reliable data. All are suspect; some are demonstrably false. Yet they are widely believed because they reinforce popular assumptions."

The article continues, by way of example: The authors say there are 40 per cent fewer armed conflicts than in the early 1990s. Between 1991 and last year 28 wars for self-determination began but 43 were ended or contained.

In 1992, when the Yugoslav wars of secession began, there were 51 state-based conflicts around the world. The figure dropped to 32 in 2002 and 29 in 2003. The arms trade declined by a third from 1990 to 2003 and the number of refugees fell by 45 per cent between 1992 and 2003.

In 1950 each conflict killed 38,000 people on average. By 2002 that had dropped to 600.

Not a perfect measure of global fuckedupedness, but it does suggest that people's fears may not always accurately reflect worldwide trends.

E. Coli from the Milky Way

18:16 / 31.08.06

Hi: i've been said by an astral entitie i (or a spirit, a god, or wathever: it looked like a cartoon) , or wathever it maybe, that "it's gonna be an invasion, and there are entities who want humankind to evolve, and others that doesn't want to".

I've checking out lots of literature of channeled/ET's and things like that, and there's a lot of new age garbage "all is ok, god is already here, be positive, etc" ... In conspiranoic circles, people is talking about CIA mind control programs in channelling scene : See this book

so looking further, i've found these guys, the "Cassiopaeans": link, wich it seems they are too skeptic with new age scene. I've found they got a similar message that i had (or at least a message i think i had).

Anyone is familiar with that material? It's garbage too?

The Ghost of Tom Winter

22:48 / 31.08.06

Greetings! Long time listener, first time caller.

Alright, so ever since I was a child I’ve had dreams/nightmares of aliens visiting me, particularly the “Greys.” Every time they would appear in my dreams I’d be over whelmed with fear and attempt to run at all costs. They’ve appeared in their bodily form or just as an ever present UFO in the sky. The first dream I remember of them occurred when I was about four or so, a Grey came out of my closet and started moving shit around my room with his mind and waving his arms. I was petrified with fear however.

They went away for a long time but recently since I have been getting into the magic and what not I have been having them pop up more frequently. One time they came to me in a bathroom and it was the first time I did not run from them but I still felt the immense fear. A few weeks later I had two dreams consisting of me walking through my house in complete darkness and unable to control my body. Last dream I had I walked into my kitchen and saw that my door had been filled with a bright white swirling light. I noticed that the alien’s “presences” was all encompassing this situation. However, I was for some reason too afraid to go through the door.

Anyways, I have a few questions.
First, are there any known methods on conquering fear in dreams? Or something of the like. I figure astral travel or shamanic trance would work but they never really seem to come other than dreams. Maybe I just haven’t honed my skills in that area enough, but that’s another story.

Second, I’ve been looking for other information regarding these greys and dreams. I can’t really find anything worth while, but I do know that when I read the invisibles first time through Morrison’s portrayal of the greys completely resonated with me. Any info on these guys as “anti-bodies”? did he just make that up? I’ve googled a few times on various subjects and either I suck at googling or there isn’t much info on it.

Also, has anyone else had some form of “initiation” through dreams? Kind of like how the last one I mentioned may possibly have turned out.

Forgive my terrible articulation, too much coffee, too little sleep.

23:54 / 31.08.06

Pants Brigade, I was once gifted a crow in a manner similar to you. I asked for one and I got it. Prior to asking for it I was looking for crow feathers everywhere and finding none. Then I asked, was given the crow and forever find feathers now. I count crow as one of my allies.

I put his feet in salt, plucked the feathers, took the head and left it under a terracotta plantpot with an offering on the top to wait for nature to take its course. The rest of the bird was returned to where it was gifted to me and I gave the other crows in what is now known in my family as 'crow park' food and offerings.

Regarding homemade ink and this question: how much blood can you put in ink before it will tend to spoil?

You can use quite a lot but you should mix it with something. The very best Chinese ink is Indian ink. (I know, it's a relic of the horrible English tradition of referring to anything foreign with a vague attempt at area.) True Indian ink is made out of pine soot. That's easy to come by, obviously, and if you include a bit of oil it will work beautifully. You can add your blood to this so it's there, that's what I've done in the past.

Wikipedia has references on Indian ink, and they say use pine smoke, but I know the recipe of using collected soot. Soot and smoke are really one and the same thing, just that soot is a bit easier to collect.

E. Coli from the Milky Way

10:15 / 01.09.06

Mr Microcosm: the only thing i can tell you from my experience is that "energetic work" like chi-kung, yoga, tai-chi or an marcial art like kung fu really works.

I mean, i experienced some spontaneous OBE's during dreams and they were somehow "dramatic" experiencies: the "second body", (as Robert Monroe calls it) was uncontrolled, and his integration with the body was like a shock. After a year of kung-fu and qigong, i had two more spontaneous OBE's and the experience was more smooth.

13:32 / 01.09.06

are there any known methods on conquering fear in dreams?

Facing it, usually. Turning and fighting the pursuer. Things usually don't go how you think they will.

You might also be interested in Rick Strassman's theorizing about endogenous DMT and grey aliens.

17:20 / 01.09.06

This is more of a short-term solution than I think you're looking for, but still...
On occasion, I've had dreams where I feel some vague threatening presence. A shadow of something or a weight on my chest.
I've had good results from using a simple banishing. Usually, I just draw a pentagram in front of me and the thing, whatever it is, goes away.

For more long term results, I agree that facing it might work. Maybe try to communicate in some way. I don't have any personal experience with this, but it seems like a good idea.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

17:53 / 01.09.06

Right, I know nothing about aliens, but I do know a little bit about talking to disembodied people.

Personally I have to go with "try to communicate." You need to take control of the situation. If you're actively trying to establish communication, the fear will probably get a lot less overwhelming. You'll be more involved in the process, less swept along.

I don't know how one talks to 'greys' coz I've never met one, but if it was me, here's what I'd do.

I'd build a communications device. I might start with a bit of automatic drawing--invite the greys to tell you what the gadget should look like, and sit down with a roll of cheap wrapping paper and a packet of felt-tips. Take some time over it. Go back to the image over a period of a few nights.

Once I'd got my picture, I'd do a bit of driftwork, all the time trying to tune into the greys and find out what they think should go in the gadget. Pick up bits of broken electronic equipment, wire, metal--maybe hit the shops--electronics shops, toyshops, cheap everything-for-one-pound places and thrift stores. When it was built I'd spend some time sitting with it every day, trying to tune in to the aliens. I'd grab a notebook and pencil, maybe set up recording equipment, ask a few polite questions and listen carefully for an answer. Maybe set up the communicator on my nightstand and see what happened to my dreams. I'd find out if there were any sites in my area that were associated with alien activity and visit them, maybe camp there if at all possible, bringing the communicator along. You might get abducted, but what's magic without a bit of risk?

But that's just me. You might have a totally different approach in mind.

I think the most important thing is always the approach you take. If you can choke back on your fear and go into the encounter with compassion and respect in your heart, you'll get a very different response to the one you'd get if you went in scared or angry or hostile.

Hope this helps.

The Ghost of Tom Winter

20:02 / 01.09.06

Awesome tips guys I'll definitely be trying a few of them. I really like the idea of a communication device. I'll also be starting tai chi within the next week or so.
Oh, and I'll be picking up that book as well next time I'm in the green.

Thanks for your insight.

Unconditional Love

12:11 / 05.09.06

Yesterday, i was instructed to lay down on my bed and told this experience was going to be a little uncomfortable, voices speaking in my head, it appears i underwent some form of astral surgery, to begin with it seems there were two voices one male and one female, it seems they were diagnosing me, by exploring my insides, i sort of witnessed them doing this as if different parts of my body contained differing landscapes, they located the problem around my stomach abdomen area.

There first attempts to deal with the problem were limited in success, i have a feeling they were cleverly designed to expose the entity in question. which they did. Then a serpentine like creature, very twisted and distorted was removed from my gut, this felt like a giant hand moving through me, my body convulsed uncontrollably as a lay on the bed.

An ecstatic feeling of bliss followed as i was filled up, or sealed with the most amazing energetic from head to toe, i felt yesterday as if there was a constant presence with me in my thoughts, watching and assessing me.

Yesterday was a very pleasurable day, thanks to all concerned.

Henningjohnathan

18:54 / 07.09.06

Sounds like a success. I too recently had an odd experience of "voices in the head" but that wasn't entirely pleasent (and a little scary, in fact). However, the following day I felt surprisingly good.

Stupid Question #2:
Most religions promise some sort of life after death or explain that death is a necessary part of life. I'm sure there are a few that encourage longevity and immortality (are Taoist immortals just a myth), but most, even those that believe in reincarnation, are centrally concerned with death's place in the cycle of life.

If physical immortality, eternal youth, was a viable medical possibility, would you pursue it or turn it down?

19:08 / 07.09.06

this reminds me of that time I got stuck next to the Vampire philosophy table in the bar.....

Seriously though I'm looking forward to the Big Off Switch. I'd feel robbed or maybe just confused. Besides "we're all immortal until we die". Even immortals tend to kick it thus claiming their ironic comeuppance for all that cackling over shark filled pits.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

08:36 / 08.09.06

I have very little interest in becoming physically immortal. It feels like cheating.

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