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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

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13:26 / 18.06.06

That sounds lovely. It's fascinating to know you will be greeting your sunrise several hours ahead of me greeting mine.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

14:21 / 18.06.06

Like I said elsewhere, I'm going to hit the beach for noon and dunk some of my magic kit in the Med 3 times. Last year I just did my ankh jewellery but this year I think I'll do some of my other gear as well.

03:56 / 19.06.06

Okay, this is my first Temple post and I'm a little nervous, so go easy. And I tried to find a thread about this, and didn't, but if there is one I'd love to be directed to it.

Over the last few months I've been learning to read tarot, and over the last few days I've started giving readings to friends. Almost straight away I hit some ethical problems.

1 - The bad news tarot. What do you do with a reading that's basically really depressing, with little room to interpret generously? I've had a couple of these, and I've tried to emphasise as much as possible what was good in them, but I feel like it wouldn't be right to sugar-coat it. And of course I emphasise that it's a guide to intuition not a magic future predictor, and whatever. But a couple of people were clearly pretty unhappy with the cards... how do you deal with this?

2 - Okay so this girl who had just unknowingly broken my heart a little asked for a reading, and I was in the middle of doing them for a bunch of other people so I coudln't really say no, but I was worried that if she asked about relationship stuff - which she almost did - then I would, even if I didn't mean to, be reading them in terms of the relationships I wish she would get out of and into. So I guess generally this is a question about how you avoid bias when you're doing a reading for someone else about something you're invested in; or do you just avoid the situation?

12:16 / 19.06.06

1. bad news tarot

I often use the 'nice sammich' approach. Start with the positive aspects of the reading, then address the difficult/bad parts (remember to use 'change' & 'growth' when you can). It's a lot like when a child gets a crappy grade, you look for areas of improvement and I will end with positive suggestions from the reading. Often I'll throw the cards again specificly to ask what the supplicant can do. However if there is a big bad in the spread I'll broach the subject gently and backoff if I meet resistence. Not everyone wants to know what is coming down the pike, and you could be misreading the cards. Trust your intuition. The supplicant's life will unfold as it will, it is your choice how to advise them, and their choice to act or not act.

2. The power to say no.
You are not a public utility you have the right to decline to give a reading for no reason. If tact is an issue simply say you are tired or have too much going on.
If you want to learn how to read without your personal issues becoming a filter you may want to learn trance work so you can suspend the ego. For now I would recommend saying no. This is important as you may be approached by people you just shouldn't read for. Many of us open up a lot of shielding when we read you don't have to do that if you don't like someone's vibe.

Even if I'm donating my time to a charitable event to do readings I have the caveat of denial of service for anyone I don't want to read for. If you are under a geas where you must read for everyone always, then you need to train in protective shielding fairly heavily. Usually the people who do have this taboo have a guardian/God that watches over them while they are being a public oracle.

13:03 / 19.06.06

Bad news- I find most people are already aware if there's bad stuff going on in their life, so it's not often a bolt from the blue. Most cards have a positive side too, so some positive spin can help if necessary, but the best approach I've found is honesty- that and sandwiching.
For example, Death shows dramatic change but the people in the card show different attitudes to that change, and in the background the sun is rising over a city representing what happens afterward. It's not the end of the world. The Devil only keeps his victims chained because they forget they can free themselves at will, and the card mocks the Lovers because that's what beats the materialism and bondage he represents- Love. Cheesy but true. Even the Ten of Swords ("Ruin") shows a sunny day beyond the big black cloud, and is really a caricature of ruin- there's a sword in the figures ear and arse for goodness' sake, it often denotes self-pity. Every cloud has a silver lining.

how you avoid bias when you're doing a reading for someone else about something you're invested in
It's difficult, I'd second the advice that you just don't until you've had more practice. Unless you're using the reading to seduce someone which is a different kettle of fish.

17:46 / 19.06.06

Upon re-reading, that last part's not clear- a kettle of evil fish obviously, using magic to charm young beauties is bad and wrong and I've never done it of course, no never, not even that one time, you can't prove anything.

17:52 / 19.06.06

After the last moot with no name I went to the Hornman Museum to have a look at the three altars they have there, on the Haitan Altar there were several decorated bottles. Decorated with fabric, sparkly bits, crystals with a framed picture of a saint on each one.

I may be daft but I don't think I have come across these before, is there is a purpose behind them other than a offering? Do they have a name?

19:18 / 19.06.06

I'm blanking on names, but I've seen them before. I think I've read about them here, in fact. I'm pretty sure they pop up in one of the earlier chapters in Mama Lola, too.

Probably not an offering as much as a veve or similar, is my guess (without reading, though, my memory isn't to be trusted).

20:02 / 19.06.06

$150 for a bottle?

Well, whatever. I think the copy underneath was cut&pasted from elsewhere.

Here's another Vodou question: Is La Sirenn really an Ezili?

Brown (author of Mama Lola) explicitly says "yes," although is (probably suitably) hazy on the hows and whys. And if "yes," then what exactly *is* an Ezili? What are the boundaries of the category?

16:41 / 20.06.06

According to the American Museum of Natural History they could be *bouteys* which are sequined bottles to honour to Lwa or they could be liberation bottles. They were just so detailed they jumped out at me from the altar.

http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/vodou/tools2.html

But still looking into them, although admittly via the web so I know I have to be careful as the real meaning doesn't always make into type.

20:33 / 20.06.06

They are just offertory bottles. There's no secret occult mystery. If you want to do something nice for one of the Lwa, you might decorate a bottle in their colours, with loads of sequins and usually an image of the Saint they are syncretised with. You would keep this on their altar filled with rum or whatever drink is to the taste of the particular personality the bottle is for. You can then pour them a little drink from this bottle on their special day. That website is charging $150 not because of any secret mystical Voodoo Potion, but because it's a peice of Haitian art that someone has spent ages making. It's just a fancy bottle dedicated to one of the Lwa and intended to contain their favourite drink.

Yes. La Sirene is an Erzulie. Many of the African Goddesses are strongly associated with water, on the Yoruban side you have Oshun and Yemaya who are both often represented as mermaids. In Vodou, you have the Erzulies who are very different personalities and should in no sense be conflated with the Orisha, but who represent similar mysteries. Erzulie Freda, Erzulie Dantor and many others. La Sirene is the most overtly watery aspect of the Erzulie mysteries and appears as a mermaid. It's difficult to really explain to someone what an Erzulie is. All of this stuff is so experiential that the only way to begin to understand any of it is through direct encounters with the Lwa.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

01:35 / 21.06.06

WHY ARE SCORPIONS FOLLOWING ME AND WHAT DO THEY WANT?

11:57 / 21.06.06

They want you to ROCK!

19:09 / 29.06.06

Ask the scorpions what they want. If they won't tell you, tell them to get stuffed. Engage in combat if neccessary..........

21:57 / 29.06.06

Do you think anti-depressants would have any effects on magical practise? I was thinking about self-healing, and whether the pills would prevent true knowledge of one's innerstates/issues/underlying problems. Probably not if one were an experienced practitoner, but for the novice I was wondering if extra-sensory perception skills would perhaps be dimmed by these drugs, or provide a slightly altered perception of oneself. Similarly, do you think one's ability to truly visualise and work with the elements as aspects of the self, for example, would be compromised by Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitors? The answer's probably "Wha? Nah!", but its been bugging me, having been on A.D.s for over 3 years now. Though during this time my magical life has gone from nothing to a definite something, and a very anti-depressant something at that, so perhaps I'll just have to find out for myself when I get off them (sooner rather than later).

Less searchable M0rd4nt

23:08 / 29.06.06

Personally, I find that severe untreated mood disturbances can very effectively prevent true knowledge of one's innerstates/issues/underlying problems, let alone self-healing. I don't know about anyone else but my magical practice definately suffers a bit when I'm too poorly to get out of bed.

If you feel like you're ready to come off the SSRIs, Adamski, that's great. Do so carefully and under medical supervision, don't just pack them in. Look at other ways to deal with your mood problems--food, excercise, drug use (caffine and alcohol included) can all have a part to play in helping or harming.

It's good that you're looking at self-healing, but be aware that you can get into 'paralysis by analysis'--constantly going over the events and issues that may be at the root of your depression can be useful up to a point, but eventually you can get into a negative cycle where you're rehearsing the pain, practicing feeling bad. Not in an emo-kid way, but through a process of re-enforcement: Some event (x) was painful to you, so when you remember (x) you naturally feel bad. But then the next time you remember (x), you also remember feeling bad about (x)--you get a double dose, the bad feelings from the event itself, plus the bad feelings from remembering it... The whole thing can just spiral.

I've found it more useful to focus on dealing more with the way that my depression and other mood disturbances affect me, challenging the impact that they have on my life whilst still questing for a way to deal with the underlying problems.

I hope you can find a lasting solution. Good luck.

00:35 / 30.06.06

Maybe the scorpions are from RAF Search & Rescue Squadron 84.

Or, if they're looking locust-like, then it could be the beginning of the Tribulation.

Unconditional Love

09:34 / 30.06.06

I have been working with an ancestral altar everyday for a week now, and other altars on a daily basis, now i have done this before but only half heartedly, this time i am giving it my all, i have so far been instructed to cool down alittle in my practice and work on a monthly basis with other altars and weekly with my ancestors and god.

This week i recieved 3 days of massive slaps to my ego, which have resulted in me being prompted to try and get a career as an engineer or working with metal, retraining, grants etc

I am also recieveing instruction to set up other altars and am fast running out of window ledge and side board.

I am kind of used to this process, and the general rebellion it inspires in me, but this time i will take the advice, i dont have anything to lose except an unfullfilling lifestyle, and alot to gain from following the instruction.

My question is how do you relax into listening taking onboard sound advice from spirits, how do you stop the rebellious i wont do what i am told child from interfering?
I dont want another 3 days of slaps, how do you learn not to resist good advice? I know its an odd question, but i need some ideas.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

11:14 / 30.06.06

My question is how do you relax into listening taking onboard sound advice from spirits, how do you stop the rebellious i wont do what i am told child from interfering?

I hear ya. I have real problems with this at times. It's hard not to get all bratty in the face of having Someone bigger than you issuing instructions. Two things I've found helpful:

1) Is there a positive experience in your life that you can draw on involving some kind of power exchange? It could be the experience of being a student under a wise teacher, or something similar. (For me it's kink. Not so much the sexual element, more the power-play--I draw on my experiences of BDSM in order to be able to respond gracefully to instruction from outside.)

2) Examine your reasons for refusing. Is it just that you have a problem with authority? Or are there deeper forces at work? For example, I sometimes get told to do things or make things, and I'll refuse on the grounds that I 'can't.'

I had some pretty rough experiences until I learned that if They are telling me to do something, then I can do it. I can draw that picture. I can spend a night in the woods by myself. I can spend another 5 minutes lifting weights. Experiences I was framing as "Oh these horrible scary People are yelling at me to do all this impossible stuff, and it's awful and I don't know what to do!" have become "Wow, really? I'm really capable of that? Cool!"

Unconditional Love

12:41 / 30.06.06

Yeah it is cool, i just got offered free CISCO training on a residential course, and get to keep what i already have. I am chuffed, Get to go near scotland where my grandfather grew up and explore that area, My grandfather was the engineer, i need to find a way to thank him, i guess that will become obvious thou, the more i listen. Working towards peace in my family would be a good start.

Unconditional Love

12:51 / 30.06.06

New question, how to work with spirits while away from your altars for an extended period of time, a year say, i am thinking invocations and coloured candles, and various teas as offerings at the mo, any other ideas?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

13:00 / 30.06.06

Well, I personally have bits of jewellery that are connected with various Gods/spirits, and those can make a nice focus for meditation or devotion when travelling. Sometimes I may take a small item from a harrow away with me as a pocket-piece.

Appropriate locations for offerings or simply quiet meditation are not hard to find in most places. A crossroads. A graveyard. An oak tree. Whatever is meaningful to you. As to what offerings--eh, what you normally give, I guess.

17:01 / 30.06.06

Oh, and on scorpions again (it's always the animal symbolism things that I get hyper over), Linda Goodman had this thing about Scorpio, the zodiac sign, where it should really be represented by three different animals - the scorpion, the lizard and the eagle, each with its own set of interrelated characteristics. I have no idea where she got that from, but it sounded like she wasn't just making it up.

Thus: something to do with a three-stage transformation. My memory's a little hazy, but I think these were specifically emotional "levels" or states, scorpions being bitter & paranoid, lizards being skittish but adventurous, eagles soaring overhead without fear.

rising and revolving

18:05 / 30.06.06

grant, I'm unsure of the origins myself but it's definately part of the symbolism in Waites Tarot. I'd take a guess thereby that it got there via Levi or Agrippa, but I'm not sure where it originates. Just did a bit of a hunt - it definately gets a mention in Levi.

The eagle clearly has biblical roots through the four Kerubim ... but not sure where the serpent/lizard arrives in the picture.

In essence, they represent the three parts of Scorpio - the Scorpion as the lowest self, that lashes out at the world around it. The Serpent is equally turned by both the higher and lower self, while the Eagle soars above. Some people reverse the Scorpion and the Snake - same rough thing.

As you say, this is often viewed as the process of Alchemical purification, resulting in the perfected Eagle via the transformation at the Snake. Rocketing towards perfection using imperfection as your booster.

There's a bit of fear of the things Scorpio represents in the characterisation, though. No other sign needs seperate sections to symbolise their two-fold nature. You can easily be too bullish and stubbon, but you don't need a bull and a milkmaid to tell you that. I think the fact that Scorpio has overtones of sex and death meant that people like Levi and the GD felt the need to keep its mysteries divided in order to be comfortable with their implications.

That's my theory for today, anyhow.

18:10 / 30.06.06

They're also bodyguards of Isis, often seen in other protective aspects (especially of women/lunar things), lusty business, vengeance and throwing the goat:

The fascination or threatening gesture (Skt. tarjini mudra) consists of a fist with forefinger and little finger extended; it is called the "forefinger-scorpion gesture" (Tib. Digzub Chagya.) By using it, the greatly accomplished yogin (Skt. mahasiddha) Nubchen Sangyé Yeshé created a scorpion apparition that terrified King Langdarma:

When in the ninth century, King Langdarma and his hostile ministers set about to suppress the Indian Buddhist teachings and to close the Buddhist monasteries such as Samye, he summoned the Tantric master Nubchen Sangye Yeshe and his disciples into his presence, although all of them were not Buddhist monks but rather Tantrikas (sngags-pa). The arrogant king challenged Nubchen, inquiring, "And what power do you have?"

"Just observe the power I can manifest merely from the reciting of mantras!" Nubchen replied and raised his right hand in the threatening gesture of tarjini-mudra.

Instantly, in the sky above the Tantric sorcerer, the king saw nine giant scorpions appear, each the size of a wild yak. The king was terrified at this vision. So he promptly promised not to harm the white-robbed Buddhist Tantrikas and to refrain from disrobing and exiling them as he had done with the maroon-robbed Buddhist monks. Then Nubchen pointed again into the sky with a threatening gesture, and lightning flashed from heaven, shattering into pieces a nearby boulder.

Doubly terrified, the king vowed, "I will not in any way harm you or your white-robed followers!" and he ordered that his prisoners be released. because of the mighty magical powers of this Tantrika Nubchen, the anti-Buddhist king could not destroy the esoteric teachings of the Mahayoga Tantras nor their white-robbed practitioners, the Ngakpas (sngags-pa, one who uses mantras.) Subsequently, this Tantric Order of Nyingmapa Buddhists has flourished among the Tibetans until this day.

~ Excerpt of John Myrdhin Reynolds' The Golden Letters. Snow Lion, 1996.

\m/

18:12 / 30.06.06

r&r -- very cool, thanks.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

18:18 / 30.06.06

So they do want me to RAWK.

19:02 / 30.06.06

The 3 stage thingy in the signs sounds like a symbolic reworking of the Cardinal, Fixed and (whatever it is) astrological symbolism, only mapped down to the level of individual signs, rather than used as a divisor for the tweleve signs.

01:30 / 01.07.06

Mutable is the third.

trouser the trouserian

10:33 / 01.07.06

Interesting story Grant, but the punchline is that Lang Dharma was eventually assasinated by a Buddhist monk named Lhalung Pelgyi Dorje - in popular Tibetan tradition, a "humble" buddhist monk. However, the historian Samten Karmay (president of the International Association for Tibetan Studies) says that Lang Dharma was not as anti-buddhist as is claimed , but that what he actually did was undermine the power and wealth of the Tibetan Buddhist monastic establishment, and so he was murdered by one of the abbots of Samye.

rising and revolving

14:27 / 02.07.06

Illmatic, as I understand it the process is less like the Cardinal, Mutable and Fixed signs - which I tend to see as the element in it's beginning, initiating phase - then stable, then preparing for transformation by partaking of both facets.

The three phases of scorpio feel far more like they relate to alchemical processes - black, white and red...

Unconditional Love

15:19 / 04.07.06

Today i was wandering into town to look at flat swaps, i want to live closer to the town centre so i can reach transport more easily as its going to be a big factor for me for the next year or so, although i wont be at home much it still feels important to make this move.

So a voice struck up inside of me and started on with a proposition, if i want the move i have to build a shrine that is inclusive of all the local faiths in my community, thats a pretty tall order in and of itself, also being aware of cultural appropriation gives me doubts, the idea so this voice was insistant that building the shrine itself was an act of magic, it would give me the move to the heart of the town as long as i agreed to this condition.

This same spirit identifies itself as a pantheist, it sees the face of god in everything, everybody, every culture, nature, art, engineering pretty much everywhere it looks, it reminds me of the conception of the great architect from freemasonry.

The problem i have is with my understanding of cultural appropriation how that relates to muticulturalism, creolization and transculturalism, and syncretic structures in general, i can see a need for such a multi faith shrine in my community, but it should be in my community and not in my flat, but thats not what i am being told, so perhaps the process and purpose of building the shrine is to take place in me, this then led the spirit later to inform me that it was thelelmite in nature, i am not quite sure what it means by this, except that my perception of the entity is embodied in fire.

The shrine is to be built in my new flat when i get the place. Any thoughts?

Unconditional Love

15:41 / 04.07.06

That the spirit was thelemite was confirmed by a random old guy who i cycled past on my way back from the supermarket, looking up and saying directly to my face, "yes thats it", just after it had communicated with me, what a strange and hot day today has been so far.

16:32 / 05.07.06

While it is important to watch what you're sourcing from I think once you've examined your intent you're (for the most part) free to begin a ritual working without too much second guessing. Sounds pretty righteous.

Is the function of the shrine to also help tie you into the new community via tending the focus?

I often have random moments of Influence speaking through other people. I was once given a very profound message that way and didn't quite understand it at the time. That experience has made me much more attentive to the power of non-random utterance.

Unconditional Love

08:48 / 16.07.06

Anybody have any ideas about the relationship between kabbalah and chess, ive turned up very few links, perhaps there isnt one, but i woke up from a dream with a voice telling me i could use a chess set as a representation of the tree of life, i ching would of been easier because of the numbers involved, but the voice said chess set.

So far turned up 2 links

one not what i expected but still of intrest>

Teth chess

The other more intresting and a point to begin>

IN THE SPIRIT OF CAISSA: THE ART OF CHESS

I have heard of enochian chess, which their are more links for than qabalah, any insights about qabalah and chess would be appreciated.

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