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Underground > Temple >

"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

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Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:08 / 29.10.06

Natty Ra Jah, that's fine. There are some excellent posters here who do not believe in magic, and their contributions are valued. Sometimes a more sceptical voice is really helpful in getting some perspective.

Heck, one of the mods here never stops ripping the piss out of me because I won't conjure him a succubus to play with.

E. Coli from the Milky Way

12:57 / 29.10.06

Hey Fire_Hearth, talkin' on succubus, have you listened to this ??? Weird thing ....

Less searchable M0rd4nt

16:12 / 29.10.06

Fascinating. Tell me, has there been much research done into the relationship between psychedelic usage and unbelievable smugness?

16:30 / 29.10.06

is this a Barbelith-wide consensus which i am therefore outside of, or does it just reflect the subset of Barbelith which posts particularly in the Temple?

Erm, well, I don't believe in everything that gets posted in here uncritically. I am frequently agnostic or even cyncial about some people's reports. I certainly don't believe in magic as a mechanical skill which you get better at, perfect and then "it" (whatever "it" is), works 100%.

However, if you asked me can you find life-changing practices and deeply inspiring material by digging deep in occult works, I would say YES.

You might have to bin 90% of what you read, but that's one of the reasons why it's an interesting field.

E. Coli from the Milky Way

16:45 / 29.10.06

Shit, heart, no more unbelievable than people symbiothizing with ancient gods ... i contemplate the *possibility* it could be true ... why not?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

16:56 / 29.10.06

I didn't say it was unbelievable. I just said it was smug. I'd have said the same if it was a show about ancient Gods that ended with a guy telling us not to pass any of the good stuff on to "straight" people because they weren't ready for it.

E. Coli from the Milky Way

17:51 / 29.10.06

"unbelievable smugness", ah ok, i get it, sorry.

Yeah, the guy is smug --but it is something it comes with the XY chromosome (and more with us, poor omega males of the tribe). But get the ideas and forget the smug. Mckenna, Jodorowsky, Leary, Crowley, yeah, they're smug, but their ideas are valuous.

what about the succubus thing? Any contemporanean view aside this?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

19:14 / 29.10.06

Dude, out of all the stuff on there--stuff about time-travel, the origins of God and the divinity within all of us--you're most interested in the shapeshifting succubus?

Promise me you didn't get into magic just so you could shag a chick who can turn into Carmen Electra.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

19:15 / 29.10.06

(And please don't blame dodgy traits on either chromosome, it's not cool, not true, and not very funny.)

Less searchable M0rd4nt

19:22 / 29.10.06

Oh! Nearly forgot--here's the Phil Hine article we always link to when someone turns up asking for a contemporaneous veiw of incubus/succubus phenomena, purely for academic purposes you understand etc.

Cacodemonic Copulations

19:37 / 29.10.06

I am a fully fledged member of the "People With Penis" club. As such, I feel it behoves me to make comment.

Digital Horus Eye, shut the fuck up.

On the Phil Hine essay. Has anyone played around with this stuff? I just had the thought that I could probably use it to sort out some gender issues I have re: sex. I'm not going too, because I have more pressing practice, (and who really needs another vacuous emotional vampire in their bed? Really?) but I would be interested to hear about how people dealt with entities like this.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

19:46 / 29.10.06

I would be interested to hear about how people dealt with entities like this.

I think that's going to be problematic. All the usual disclaimers apply, but generally speaking the kind of person who'll talk about hir experiences of fucking incubi/succubi on a public message board is either the kind of person who is soulbonded to the ghost of Anakin Skywalker and is astrally pregnant with his twin babies, or the kind of person who likes to talk about how ze's just dumped Aphrodite for being too clingy.

E. Coli from the Milky Way

04:48 / 30.10.06

Haha, no heart, didn't get into magick for the succubus thing. But after 8 years refusing havin' sexual partners (i had the wacky idea that until i didn't heal myself i was going to be some kind of psychic vampire) a ride with carmen electra (better to me Echobelly's singer) could be viewed as a cosmic reward! hahahha ...

no, seriously, "i'm into magic" because i think we humans are star's extremities (or in a way similar to intestinal bacteries of the universe).

On the XY thing, i'm gonna quote Arlen Wilson in his infinite wisdom:

What do you think are some of the differences between men and women?

Arlen: Well, men have to show that they're better than other men, and women have to show that their men are better than other women's men. This suits me fine. I think that to quarrel with the way things are is a basically a waste of energy. I see certain things in the differences between men and women as primal, and I'm not going to argue with them.

E. Coli from the Milky Way

04:50 / 30.10.06

thanks for the link, BTW. I think i'm gonna not to look for the succubus ... but if it wants to come, surely i won't say no ...

05:54 / 30.10.06

That Arlen Wilson quote is quite possibly the most ignorant, misguided, terrible thing I have ever read. Well, maybe not the most, but it's up there. More over, it does nothing at all to defend your statement in any manner that I can see, other than that you and Wilson both have ridiculous ideas regarding gender.

Please tell me I'm just missing something glaringly obvious here.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

07:05 / 30.10.06

I'm kind of with CHARRELLZ on this one. That is one deeply, deeply messed up quote.

07:10 / 30.10.06

It is. It's just wrong on so many levels. What is it in it that you feel is worth quoting? That men are clearly better than women since the women don't have to prove themselves, just 'their' men?

ONLY NICE THINGS

07:32 / 30.10.06

Hey, Horus! Out of interest, are you still denying yourself the company of women? Only, I was talking on the phone to Sonja Aurora-Madan, and I think that if she met you, she would very probably want to date you.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

08:00 / 30.10.06

I'm in a bit of a quandry here. DHE plainly needs the company of actual women to get him out of this whole thing where he's abstracting Woman to the point of creating a Henry Moore sculpture where his ability to relate to 52% of the planet should be, but on the other hand there's the ethical ramifications of asking that anyone volunteer herself for such a mission...

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:22 / 30.10.06

Dude, did you hear Echobelly's last album?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

09:15 / 30.10.06

Point.

11:23 / 30.10.06

I'm going to quote Arlen Wilson right now;

Hymn to the Democratic Party
Little guys to it belong,
They are weak but it is strong.
Yes, the party loves me,
Sure, the party loves me,
You bet the party loves me,
The Liberals tell me so.

and let's take a look at Announcement 1969
As a former love freak
I have an announcement to make:
I have learned to hate.
Hatred is a liberating thing,
It releases energies.

...perhaps not the best woman to be listening to about women. Or indeed anything.

Horus Eye, I hope you don't feel persecuted but you should read the feminism 101 thread and some of the wiki before you get into trouble. Seriously.

11:26 / 30.10.06

i'm gonna quote Arlen Wilson in his infinite wisdom

Also, it's her infinite wisdom. Just sayin'.

12:45 / 30.10.06

Minor point and not wanting to second guess, but I think Horus has English as a second language, and the his/her word confusion is very common - especially in Spain.

13:00 / 30.10.06

Could be.
Es una mujer, duderino.

13:15 / 30.10.06

Natty, as other have said: bring it on in. The important thing is if you ask questions be prepared to respect that the answers are dear to people even if you don't personally agree.

re:incubus/succubus

I'll go read the article posted upthread but just offhandedly I've spoken with a fair number of people who have had incubus/succubus experiences that were quite traumatic and not the sort of thing you go out shopping for.

re: the Arlen Wilson quote

that is one of the most sexist heteronormative pieces of bullshit I have read in a very long time. It's not funny nor informative but utterly repulsive. Trying to tie biology to culturally repressive sterotypes and modes of behavior is unacceptable.

I personally have to show that I'm better than my tendenacy to slack, not anyone else.
As a woman I grieve for the cultural conditioning that pits women against women especially in the passive agressive format of doing so through other people's successes.

E. Coli from the Milky Way

15:07 / 30.10.06

Competitivity between men, altought driven in a theatricall-non violent form, yes, it exists, and it comes with our monkey part. I'm not a woman but i perceive, for example, in my workmates in the hospital, that kind of attitudes --but they don't hate themselves or something like that, as xk pointed.

I look at it as something funny, not nothing specially repressive or offending. Let's say sane competition. Actually, hear talking about his partners to my workmates is like hear a cacique talking about his slaves. I say it in a funny way, of course: WOMAN ARE NOT CACIQUES, I'M JUST A SILLY BOY BABBLING, I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT FEMINISM, ok?

Tanhauser, what does Sonia think about all this? Latest two albums are incredible, talkin' about djinns, the kali yuga and things like that. Have you listened to "Big Sky Mind"?

And heart, ok, call some special division of beauty masochist woman. We've still not lost battle!

15:42 / 30.10.06

I look at it as something funny, not nothing specially repressive or offending.

Are you starting to understand why others are finding it repressive and offensive? Because they have a point and I, for one, would hate for it to be lost on you.

I'M JUST A SILLY BOY BABBLING, I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT FEMINISM, ok?

Ok. Still, no time like the present to improve your knowledge base.

15:49 / 30.10.06

it comes with our monkey part

The tail?

E. Coli from the Milky Way

16:02 / 30.10.06

Ok. Still, no time like the present to improve your knowledge base.
Heck, too long to read it all. Better i subjugate myself to women and close my mouth. Best strategy.

Quantum: your monkey part is the 99'9999999% of your DNA ....

16:24 / 30.10.06

Dude. I am NOT saying you need to read the whole thing NOW. Take it a bit at a time. A page a day. Whatever you're comfortable with. I think you owe it to yourself to examine some of the beliefs you have, and that thread may help you with that.

However, this:

Better i subjugate myself to women and close my mouth. Best strategy.

is heaping ignorance on top of ignorance. Your "best" strategy, IMO, is to look into this issue and do some thinking on it. Additionally, you need to stop using your DNA as an excuse for your behaviour. It's not scientific and it's not intelligent. It's just kind of sad.

16:54 / 30.10.06

your monkey part is the 99'9999999% of your DNA ....

Hmm. But the 0.00000001% that's not monkey allows me to type this, wear clothes, not throw my faeces at passers by*, influence my behaviour with rational thought, avoid offending people with unexamined misogyny and (pay attention here) TAKE ADVICE FROM OTHERS.

17:01 / 30.10.06

*very often

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

17:38 / 30.10.06

Does that file really come from a place called "matrixmasters.com"?

Oh dear. I think it does.

The Ghost of Tom Winter

18:04 / 30.10.06

DHE. You are wrong on so many levels. Let me explain.

Competitivity between men, altought driven in a theatricall-non violent form, yes, it exists, and it comes with our monkey part

After studying cultures across the world in an extensive manner I can tell you this, competition is culturally created. Examples: Inuit, Sisala, Kung.

your monkey part is the 99'9999999% of your DNA ....

Actually it's not. We share 99.9% of our DNA with Chimpanzees. Not monkeys. Chimpanzees are highly intelligent with their own constructions of culture. The Pan Paniscus, which is very close to Pan Troglodytes (chimpanzee) in DNA, do not fight or war as you have been led to believe all "monkeys" do. They have sex with each other, a lot too. This is how they live.

Your views on females and those of Ms. Wilson’s are culturally created. I can give you various examples where there are not just two genders but five. So, the “division” begins to get a little blurred.

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