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"Stupid" magick, religion and spirituality questions

 
  

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Ticker
17:30 / 17.08.06
EvkG

I found it isn't exactly like being color blind, more like growing up in a monochromatic world and never seeing blue. Once you see blue or any other color at that point you now have the ability to process the new layer of information. You suddenly get dropped into a billion color world (or slowly for some folks)

My suggestion:

Genius Loci: Spirits of the Place

I was a cerebral pagan for most of my life, believed what I did because of family and reading and self thought. Than at 21 I went on a pilgrimage and after two weeks of lugging myself and offerings up to sacred sites I ran smack into a Presence. Then after that I kept running into Them.

The two weeks of being out of context and engaged in a focused sacred activities freed my up from expected perceptions and my consciousness shifted. It's a bit more subtle than using drugs though I believe that is a valid path. Rituals are used for a reason as we need to enter a liminal state and allow other parts of our cognitive/intuitive self to come online.

Basically the steps are
1. Separation from daily life
2. Transitional activities courting/preparing for the act of 'illumination' (to borrow from the lovel article you posted)
3. Reintergration into daily life

I personally have very strong reactions to certain physical places. I can feel when the atmosphere shifts and yet I know this shift is internal not external. It takes me about a week of sustained gentle ritual work to get into the other layer of reality but once I'm there, I'm there. Some rituals can drop me into very fast and hard and sometimes no ritual is needed at all.

When I say use the Spirits of a Place I don't mean it has to be some ancient venerable site, but rather a sacred site which should be designed to help you shift. Circumabulation is often designed right into an area or you can build a labyrinth. Physical acts combined with music or sound, sensory deprivation, solitude or group, build a ritual with a physical component so as you move your body you are shifting your mind (like in yoga).

You can certainly ask which ever Power you would like to meet to help you. I find this to work the best when it is heartfelt and motivated by the desire to establish a relationship. Please keep in mind sometimes They really do show up sometimes as the polite lady on the bus who starts talking to you about your childhood regrets not just as cathedral-style fanfare and light show.
 
 
EvskiG
17:57 / 17.08.06
Doc,

I've had a few glimpses of McKenna's machine elves (or the Good Folk, or whatever you want to call them) over the years. I'd like to try to build something a little more enduring with Something a bit more substantial, if possible.

Still, a suggestion worth considering, especially for trying to get into the right initial head-space.

xk,

Thanks for the suggestions. Next time I have the time and space (whenever that might be) I may give 'em a shot.

Please keep in mind sometimes They really do show up sometimes as the polite lady on the bus who starts talking to you about your childhood regrets not just as cathedral-style fanfare and light show.

Funny, that.

When I had the entity experience I noted in the Salvia thread a few weeks ago, I kept wondering why I couldn't get the Styx song "Lady" out of my head while I was trying to meditate. Only after something green and female seemed to LOOK at me with amusement did I realize that that was the first sign of the entity's (fleeting) manifestation.

Either She or I have awful taste in music.
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
17:58 / 17.08.06
Hi; during an quasi-lucid dream i was said that a big secret deals in a combination of four flowers (or plants, don't remember well) with woman's name. Maybe it's just a non-sense dream, but it cursed with other strange experiencies, so i'll give it a chance.

I've been searching on the net but i don't find anything. So, anybody does know some legend or something related with that four women?
 
 
Ticker
18:38 / 17.08.06
When I had the entity experience I noted in the Salvia thread a few weeks ago, I kept wondering why I couldn't get the Styx song "Lady" out of my head while I was trying to meditate. Only after something green and female seemed to LOOK at me with amusement did I realize that that was the first sign of the entity's (fleeting) manifestation.

Either She or I have awful taste in music.



HAHAHAH! That's awesome!

I think you should grow one of Her plants if you can. Tending it may strengthen your relationship with Her.
 
 
Doc Checkmate
19:04 / 17.08.06
Ev,

I can see how a brief frolic with shimmery little self-transforming bastards might not constitute your ideal entity relationship. Here's a suggestion that sucks marginally less.

Have you done lucid dream work? Lucid dreaming basically kicked down the wall I'd built between myself and astral/entity work. I think dream lucidity gets you used to the idea of your brain generating vibrant sensory experiences and encounters separate from the physical senses. My problem was that, on some level beyond the purely intellectual, I just didn't buy that it could be done. After looking around my dreamscapes with a clear head, speaking with people and creatures clearly operating outside of my conscious control, and saying, "Ok, my brain MADE this," my problem of reflexive disbelief bit it hard and fast.

I'm not saying here that gods, spirits, etc, are exactly the same as dream entities, and anyway that's a topic for another thread. All I know is that using dreams, a resource which we all possess already, to engage with some type of entity made it much easier for me to get into entity work in general--although I still don't do much outside of encounters during lucid dreams and astral journeys.

Plus, lucid dreams are just kickass on their own merits. If you don't already have them, you are in for such a ridiculous treat. Anyway, best of luck.
 
 
EvskiG
19:12 / 17.08.06
Good point.

I had lucid dreams pretty much daily for most of my adolescence (after reading an article on how to do so in defunct quasi-science magazine Omni, oddly enough), so I suspect I can pick up the knack again pretty quickly.

Might as well start trying tonight . . .
 
 
Dead Megatron
19:32 / 17.08.06
I was reading the Possession thread and EmberLeo's account on unwelcome "takeover" by the Old One-Eyed Odin, and I found it quite impressive. From what I know of literature (both the original and modern) on the Aesir, I have to say Odin seems to be quite an unique godhead: He aparently has the characteristics of a warrior god, a sage god, and even sometimes a trickster god. An entity who digs blood-eagle sacrifices, will do whatever He wants with you and not give a frost giant ass about explaining Himself or asking for permition. In short, the last fucking guy in the universe you want to mess with, at least without the proper precautions (which I have no idea what might be).

So, my stupid layman question is simply: how much wrong am I in that assessment, with all due respect?
 
 
EvskiG
00:09 / 18.08.06
It's a tricky question, since it's not clear (at least to me) that Odin "is" anything apart from the people who invoke him. EmberLeo's Odin might be very different from mine.

Even if you consider Odin to be a mythological or literary character, as any French theorist will tell you, it still isn't clear that he "is" anything.

This whole conversation reminds me of my favorite bit from Henry IV:

GLENDOWER

I can call spirits from the vasty deep.

HOTSPUR

Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them?
 
 
EvskiG
15:11 / 20.08.06
Just thought I'd note that after three days of effort I've managed to get some results in contacting entities through lucid dreams.

Oddly enough, all I got in my first attempt were the answers to a few self-evident questions and a taco recipe (really).

If people are interested, I'd be happy to go into detail.
 
 
Ticker
16:50 / 20.08.06
taco recipe! dude you have to share that one.
 
 
Feverfew
17:09 / 20.08.06
Seconded!
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
17:55 / 20.08.06
DM: Weeell, sort of. He's a complex figure, all right. Like EvkG points out, there's no absolute guarantee that Odin exists outside the theatre of the mind. All anyone can tell you is "Here is the lore on Odin, which may be interpreted thus," or, as in the possession thread, "Here is my experience of the entity which I identify as Odin."
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:12 / 20.08.06
And I wouldn't say He doesn't care about what He does to people. It's just that He's got this big old agenda, and it doesn't always mesh well with ours.
 
 
Ticker
23:49 / 20.08.06
Agent EvkG, REPORT!!!

me want tacos from {{{THE BEYOND}}}
 
 
EvskiG
02:51 / 21.08.06
OK, here's the deal.

(The taco recipe will be a disappointment, though. The entity work might be a disappointment, too.)

I started with the technique I used to use to have lucid dreams back when I was a teenager: (i) leave a piece of paper and a pen on my nightstand right before bed, (ii) tell myself "I'm going to have a lucid dream tonight," (iii) imagine myself having a lucid dream (essentially by picturing myself asleep in bed with a little thought bubble above my head showing me dreaming, and controlling my dream), and (iv) try to maintain a certain degree of awareness and control as I actually fall asleep (this is hard to describe, but comes with a little practice).

So later that night, in the middle of a pleasant dream involving Angelina Jolie, Britney Spears, and an airlock (go figure), I suddenly realize with a start that I'm fully conscious and aware. I think to myself "I'm lucid dreaming." I then look down at my hands (a traditional technique to confirm whether one is dreaming, although I've never used it before) and confirm "yep, I'm lucid dreaming."

I test to see if I'm likely to wake up. (Hard to say exactly how this works.) I confirm that I'm deep under and can do whatever I want without waking.

Suddenly and without warning, I feel intensely focused, aware, and blissful. I'm still asleep, but I feel as if two different non-material elements of my being (for lack of better terms, you could call them soul and astral body, although I have no idea if that's accurate or even meaningful) suddenly have come into harmony with each other, like two lenses of a telescope that suddenly came into focus. It's a fantastic sensation -- something I've only felt before when awake, under the influence of strong psychedelics or a profound mystical experience. For the moment, I'll call it a low-level samadhi (laja samadhi).

(This isn't something I've felt during lucid dreaming before, even though I used to do it almost daily for years.)

Then I remember -- I wanted to lucid dream so I could try some entity work.

I think, "I need someone here to talk to," and L., my lovely wife, appears. (No surprise that she's the first person I'd think of.) I ask her a few questions, and she gives the answers I'd pretty much expect her to give under the circumstances. In other words, it seems like talking to this dream entity is just another way of talking to myself.

Then, for some strange reason, she gives me a taco recipe. It doesn't actually come in words, but in images. Here it is:

For the best tacos, take cooked, spiced chicken, or better yet, pork. Cut into cubes, put in a hard taco shell, and add shredded lettuce, chopped tomato, and salsa.

That's not much of a recipe. (What's more, since L. is a spectacular cook, it doesn't seem like the sort of recipe she'd offer. Again, it looks like I'm just talking to myself.) But there you have it.

So I figure, maybe some god or other mystical entity might have something more profound to say. So I think of the archangel Raphael, and he's there before me. (Why Raphael? He's the first archangel evoked in the LBRP. Nothing more than that.) He's dressed in yellow, carrying a golden caudecus, and shining. He regards me with warmth and affection. But he doesn't say anything.

(To be fair, I didn't ask him anything.)

So I replace him with (in short order) Shiva, Chango, and the Green Lady from my Salvia experiences. None of them have anything to say either, and (with the exception of Shiva, who waves his arms sinuously) each makes much less of an impression than Raphael.

I prepare to wake up. And suddenly I'm flooded with that electric bliss again, even more profoundly than before. I feel as if my consciousness is full of light and spreading out throughout the entire universe . . .

And then I wake up.

Shortly thereafter I fall asleep again and have another brief spate of lucid dreaming and bliss. And wake up with a dog licking my ear.

* * *

So what can I learn from all of this?

Well, first of all, I got much more of a substantive response from speaking to my wife than from any of the supernatural entities I evoked. That's not surprising -- I have a strong emotional connection to my wife, but don't have any strong connection of any sort to any god or other spiritual entity. Of the supernatural entities, I'm most at home with Raphael (from the LBRP), and I had the most meaningful response from him.

Second, talking to the dream entities really just seemed to be talking to myself. That's different from my Salvia experience, where I really felt (rightly or wrongly) like I was in touch with a mind other than my conscious mind.

Third, the blissful feelings I had at the beginning and end of the lucid dream experience were much more important and profound than the entity work in the same dream. Perhaps I ought to focus on cultivating that sort of samadhi in lucid dreams in the future and see how much of it I can extend into the waking world.

So, overall, a good result for a first try, but much more work to do.

Of course, I have every night for the rest of my life to practice.

(But what was the deal with the tacos? And I can understand Angelina Jolie, but why Britney Spears?)
 
 
Unconditional Love
11:43 / 21.08.06
Have you ever tried altar based devotional work? bhakti yoga? Try making offerings to shiva on a daily basis with a representation of him, using mantra, incense, yantra, mudra etc It creates an emotionally charged relationship, also try talking to him, about anything and everything. Give it ago for a month and then try the same experiment again.

You could rationalise that you would of programmed the experience for yourself by creating a structure where by a diety(or unconscious) could communicate with you, but you might be surprised by how the level of communication begins to surpass your own expectations and negotiations.

Could be that these entities (aspects) are relating to you as you relate to them.
 
 
Ticker
13:11 / 21.08.06
I agree with Sin and I think you're building fiction suits in your lucid dreaming. Entities may show up when needed to communicate with you through those suits.

..and the taco recipe is a great example of when you're given information that maybe from an external source.

When examining paranormal messages you want to look for certain clues.

1. How was the message given? (delivery system)
2. What was the style it was given in? (details of the 'package' language used etc.)
3. Was the message something that seems appropriate or expected from the perceived sender?

There are three main sources of these messages, yourself, the labled sender (in this case your wife), or something pretending to be the sender or resonate with the recipent's concept of the sender.

So your wife may have very well have given you a taco recipe in your sleep.
 
 
EvskiG
20:40 / 21.08.06
Have you ever tried altar based devotional work? bhakti yoga? Try making offerings to shiva on a daily basis with a representation of him, using mantra, incense, yantra, mudra etc It creates an emotionally charged relationship, also try talking to him, about anything and everything. Give it ago for a month and then try the same experiment again.

Great suggestion. I have tried this sort of thing before (with Shiva, in fact).

The problem is that, for better or worse, I have an extremely serious antipathy to worshipping any god -- even for a short time, and even as an experiment. To me, regardless of the god at issue, it's essentially the same as saying to many Temple participants "go to a U.S. fundamentalist church and whole-heartedly participate in the worship there for a month."

Worship of any kind tends to make my skin crawl. Is this reasonable? Almost certainly not, but it is true, and it's something I need to take into account. (This is one of the many reasons I haven't really spent much time or energy on entity work in the past.)

Of course, I could try to get over this antipathy. And there's always the possibility of trying to call up a sage, an alien, an entity from the future, or my own higher self rather than a deity. Various people seem to have had success with this sort of approach in the past. But the truth is this simply might not be the magical work for me.

Practice will tell.

So your wife may have very well have given you a taco recipe in your sleep.

Good suggestion, but I doubt it.

That was a simple enough matter to check -- I asked her. She was amused.

And somehow I doubt the recipe came from, say, Tonacatecuhtli.
 
 
Ticker
02:06 / 22.08.06
replace 'worship' with 'commune'.

A lot fo Gods don't require worship in the sense you are touching on. Many of Them are open to other kinds of relationship dynamics. There are a good number that just like being helpful and having a good time.

There is also ancestoral devotion, wherein you are communing with your own Dead. I find many people react more openly to this work than to Entity work in the unconnected abstract way.

I'd suggest perhaps making a family altar and work with the spirits of your dead. Even if you don't particularly believe in an afterlife there is a good chance many of your ancestors did.
 
 
EvskiG
02:29 / 22.08.06
Even if you don't particularly believe in an afterlife there is a good chance many of your ancestors did.

Jews -- like pretty much all of my ancestors -- never put much emphasis on an afterlife.

No ancestral devotion, either.

Good ol' Bubbe and Zeyde would plotz at the very idea.

Still, it's a thought.
 
 
Ticker
11:35 / 22.08.06
My Jewish maternal family is very much into ancestral reverence via epic storytelling and the like.

I did a search on it and found it does manifest as such.

Here's a wee blurb:

ANCESTOR WORSHIP VS ANCESTOR REVERENCE
 
 
Ticker
12:17 / 22.08.06
On a different track....

I was wondering how many folks on here have romantic partners that practice either the same flavor magic/spiritual work as they do, a different flavor, or not at all?

My partner practices a completely different system than I do but we hold similar language and concepts. Our cosmologies are different but keep enough in common that we can do shared ritual when required. (I say Gods, he says Godforms.)

It seems to me that having similar ethics is far more important than actual religious/non-religious beliefs.

What do other folks find?
 
 
Seth
14:10 / 22.08.06
Lots of little red bags containing money and cigarettes left on a large number of graves in a graveyard. Happened the same time last year too. Any religions or practises that might account for it? I was thinking ancestor worship but it seems as though the bags are placed on practically every grave, so it's not very specific. And festivals or special occasions that happened today or overnight?
 
 
Unconditional Love
14:21 / 22.08.06
Where is the grave yard? Are the people there (dead people) all of one profession, ie is it naval or military?

I cant see why,either someone is simply paying there respects to the whole host of the place, or perhaps there are other reasons, but i would only be guessing.

If its not all of the graves what do the dead have in common?
 
 
Seth
14:26 / 22.08.06
As far as I know it's a little parish cemetary in a village on a nearby small(ish) island. The only thing that the graves have in common is that they're all probably connected to the village/local area in some way that is more heartfelt than a big city cemetrary. Perhaps an ancestral working with a strong psychogeographical content? I'm guessing.
 
 
grant
19:10 / 22.08.06
Red + cigarettes/money + graves screams "Chinese" to me -- and yeah, late August is generally when Ghost Festival starts.

Offerings are usually placed on graves at Qing Ming, or "Clear Brightness," but that's in/around April.

Is there a large Chinese population nearby? Qing Ming is focused on your specific ancestors, but Ghost Festival is a lot more general, so it'd make sense to leave offerings out on all the graves.

From here:
This is especially true during midsummer "ghost month" -- the seventh month of the lunar calendar -- when the gates of the underworld open and the living delay weddings, medical procedures and even swimming because of the potential for bad luck.

This year, because of a calendar anomaly, there's a double ghost month, from July 25 to Sept. 21, extending the time the spooks are wandering around. Facing the prospect of a long drought, some wedding halls are cutting their ghost-month prices 15 percent.

The summer ghost periods of the late 19th century are notorious for near-riots. Thugs clawed at one another to steal the offerings left for spirits. In 2003, shops hired bikini-clad women to sing and dance to the hungry souls, also known as "good brothers."


There's more about traditional offerings here.

I remember going to the O-Bon Festival at a local Japanese garden and really enjoying it... lots of tiny boats with paper lanterns, released like spirits onto a lake.
 
 
Seth
21:27 / 22.08.06
I had initially thought that it might be a Chinese custom as I have fond memories of receiving little red envelopes from Snapping Turtle's family. Being broadly Christian they didn't observe Ghost Month, so I'm unfamiliar with it. I think you may have cracked it, grant.
 
 
Axolotl
13:08 / 23.08.06
Strangely enough I found a $1000 Hell Bank note, which are symbolic bank notes given as offerings to the dead in China, in a book I bought recently.
It freaked me out a little as I just found it on my bed, and had to work out that it must have fallen out of the book I had been reading earlier. Well either that or it's an apport.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
23:54 / 23.08.06
Anybody here know how to turn a bird into bones? I suppose I should maybe check the gastronomicon thread...probably works the same for a raven as it does for a chicken. I should have paid more attention when I had the chance. anyway, I'm doing it for ritual-related reasons, so that's why I'm sticking it in this forum.
 
 
grant
00:33 / 24.08.06
Boiling. Although depending on the condition of the animal, it can get stinky.
 
 
LykeX
00:55 / 24.08.06
What are you making?
 
 
grant
01:35 / 24.08.06
To clarify: Cut off the skin, remove guts, boil until flesh is tender, remove flesh. You may want to soak the remainder in bleachy water, or not. You may want to dry it in an oven, or not.

I used to have a skull collection as a kid; my friends still remember the time my mother boiled a stingray in bleach for me. That was... stinky. And it didn't work, either. The cartilage all curled up.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:34 / 24.08.06
(You've got a a dead raven to play with? Dude, that's so cool.)
 
 
charrellz
10:52 / 24.08.06
Figured this was too specific a question for its own thread, so I'll stick this here. I'm currently authoring a graphic novel which involves various figures from the Norse pantheon. As these things usually go, Loki is essentially the villian. Now, it just so happens that Loki more or less scares the bejeezus out of me (whether or not he rightfully should is probably beyond the scope of this conversation) and I'm not too sure if he's happy with being a villian (and the eventual defeat that comes with that role).

There's the setup, now here's the question: what are good things I can do to appease the Big L, keeping in mind that I'm generally utter shite in directly dealing with higher powers. I mean, I would just research what sort of offering to give and set out a plate, but I just don't trust myself to not get hostile with him while doing so. I've been trying to think of other options, but I just can't seem to get around my fear of direct contact. Any suggestions?
 
 
charrellz
10:57 / 24.08.06
Hmmmm, reading over my post again, the answer is suddenly quite clear. I think I need to just face my problem with deities and go with the whole series of offerings and a nice chat over a cup of tea (or I guess mead in this case). However, given that this route totally terrifies me, I'm still open to suggestions/advice.
 
  

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