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Moderating the Temple

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19:50 / 08.04.07

I'M NOT WORTHY! *bows to Apophenia*

Better?

ONLY NICE THINGS

19:57 / 08.04.07

mods don't have official warning capacity?

Don't think so, no. I mean, how would it work? Anyone can start a banning thread any time they want, really, so all it would be would be someone in that banning thread saying "and back here, a moderator warned x that the behaviour being displayed was unacceptable". Mods are meant to be basically the same status as users. No banning powers, so there's nothing to warn people of, really.

20:06 / 08.04.07

Suddenly things in other threads make more sense...

Ok so mods are not empowered to voice board standards as uninvolved parties in disputes? Why then were you, Haus, calling for mod action in the UC thread?

20:18 / 08.04.07

That's an easy one: because he's also a board user and was talking *as* a board user.

ONLY NICE THINGS

20:50 / 08.04.07

Ok so mods are not empowered to voice board standards as uninvolved parties in disputes?

I'm not sure where you got that. I said moderators had no power to issue formal warnings, not least because they have no power to ban after that formal warning has been given. Moderators do have a right (and a duty) to keep threads reasonably ontopic, if they can, and to maintain some quality of discussion. A moderator could not have given Epop a formal warning. A moderator could have told Epop and others that this was not ontopic, and was deleterious to the general quality of the board, and that any further offtopic posts would be moved for deletion.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

21:03 / 08.04.07

If we're in this territory again, then I'm not gonna be pleading the "one more chance" corner this time. Like with the Holocaust denial, this seems pretty clear-cut to me. I don't think there's much chance anyone's misunderstanding Epop, put it that way.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

21:36 / 08.04.07

Kind of academic now, since he's taken his last chance and widdled in it.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

22:44 / 08.04.07

To be perfectly clear: I am now in full support of a ban, on the grounds that this man is a misogynist, his posts constitute harrassment of the women on this board and their male allies.

Oh, and he's a fucking shit magician. I know you can't ban people for that but I just had to mention it.

23:04 / 08.04.07

As a continual reader and occasional poster who pulls no real weight in the forum, I do think he's gone beyond the pale. I don't know how easy/difficult it would be for him to revisit under another name, but if he can be banned, ban him. He had his twenty-something hours of get-a-clue-time and it failed.

And if he comes back in under an assumed, maybe he'll have learnt his lesson and behave. Or be banned again. It's only appropriate for Temple, where people are fond or used to banishing bad behaved thingies anyhow.

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:12 / 08.04.07

OK, so we have a procedure on this - banning thread, clearly flagged, right of reply. Does somebody feel that it is appropriate to start it at this point?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

23:21 / 08.04.07

Done.

23:52 / 08.04.07

Hi, I'm not too sure what I was trying to achieve in that thread with Epop, but I wanted to engage with what I saw as someone invoking "scientific fact" without really knowing what the words mean.

My point - I don't really read the Temple, and I wanted to know if there is much point in doing anything like referring people to the Lab to get their facts right? I suspect that I should probably keep out of the Temple in particular unless I want to cause a godawful mess. Is invoking Science in vain worthy of a mod request? Probably not, but I'm struggling to understand the science's place in Barbelith at the moment anyway, and would like guidance.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

23:58 / 08.04.07

I appreciated your contribution, RC. It was spot-on and very helpful. It's a shame you don't feel more comfortable contributing to the Temple, although I can understand why.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

00:00 / 09.04.07

It was also relevant to the topic at hand, since sociobiology and evolutionary psychology are so often invoked in the context of sexism in magic.

15:21 / 09.04.07

Am I totally on teh crack or hasn't it become/isn't it standard board wide to post links or quotes to back up your opinions on 'facts'?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

18:52 / 09.04.07

I think RC's comment reflects the way this becomes somewhat problematic in the Temple, where you have people making statements eg "Loki likes orange Tang" that are a bit hard to back up.

The way we get round this is by accepting that since there are things we want to state that cannot be proven, we can't demand that other people accept them as 'facts' or 'truths.' To back up a statement you have to say things like "when I do the Rite of XYZ, ABC happens/when I invoked this God I learned this this and this" (appealling to our personal experience and unverified personal gnoses) or "in the Saga of Obscurfiguresson, Odin does XYZ from which we can deduce..." (appealing to lore) or "the orange Tang thing has been reported independantly by people here here and here (peer-corroborated personal gnosis). You can sit at home and make shit up, too, but the people who aren't making shit up will tend to call you on it and get a bit shouty.

I think people coming to the Temple do feel a bit thrown by this and don't realise that we're not presenting Absolute Truths that they may not question. You can certainly come to the Temple as a skeptic and call into question any aspect of anyone's practice or beliefs; if they are any kind of real magicians, they will be cool with this because they'll already be interrogating their practices from a perspective of "so what if this was all bollocks then, would it still be worth doing?" and be able to point to a number of ways in which their practice is enriching their lives.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

19:17 / 09.04.07

You can certainly come to the Temple as a skeptic and call into question any aspect of anyone's practice or beliefs; if they are any kind of real magicians, they will be cool with this because they'll already be interrogating their practices from a perspective of "so what if this was all bollocks then, would it still be worth doing?" and be able to point to a number of ways in which their practice is enriching their lives.

That sounds cool. But don't forget that not everyone posting in the Temple is (or claims to be) a real (or any kind of) magician- I'm dipping my toes in on the religious aspect, rather than the majykqal- I'd say the same rules should still apply, though. I'm guessing the problems arise when people claim to be what they aren't, yeah?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

19:31 / 09.04.07

When they claim to be what they aren't, and when they resist a realistic investigation of their practices. There's a point at which such quizzing becomes trolling, of course, but that particular kind of trolling is rare around here.

15:32 / 10.04.07

Shouldn't there be more active moderators in The Temple? At the moment, it seems (and this is in no sense a criticism) as if Mordant C and Quantum are basically having to deal with a bit too much, the Temple often being an entry point for cross-board craziness.

15:35 / 10.04.07

And even when it isn't, it seems like a much darker situation, at least potentially, than, say, moderating 'Books'.

15:48 / 10.04.07

monk's been on deck handling stuff too.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

15:52 / 10.04.07

Monk has been ace as per. He's less visible than some *cough* because less prone to 'Edbang, but that doesn't mean he's not there.

Would like more mods though.

16:06 / 10.04.07

Well you see this is what I was leading up to ...

16:52 / 10.04.07

I have actually tried to resign my modship in the past, but Tom didn't seem to have acted on my request.

HE WONT LET ME GO DAMMIT

... erm, well, I'm still here, daily, and am processing mod requests but not doing much more than that. I don't have the time or inclination to interact at length with the kind of craziness that's been kicking off in the last day of two. I do feel the burden is falling disportionately on Mordant though. Of the other Temple mods, Charrellz and Cusm haven't been on the board for a long time, AFAIK, so should perhaps be deselected if there is to a mod shakeup but the other five (apart from Quants and Mordant) are all still here on the regular.

Oh, and I'd nominate XK.

17:01 / 10.04.07

Oh, and I'd nominate XK.

I was going to do that also. I suppose I am seconding it, then.

17:17 / 10.04.07

And I am thirding.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

17:19 / 10.04.07

Hell, as far as I'm concerned I'd be happy to have XK modding in ANY forum. Or all of them.

18:05 / 10.04.07

Controversially I'll play Devil's advocate and suggest not. Unless XK expresses an interest and asks to be a mod let's not pressure anyone into it. I'm also recalling conversations we've had about the value of non-mod contributors and how valuable sensible posters who *aren't* susceptible to the mods-as-censors protest. Realistically, if XK requests a change it's pretty likely to get agreed straight off because it will probably be right. Why make hir a mod? Unless ze asks, in which case swear hir in right now, sew a badge on hir shoulder and give hir a raptor.

18:12 / 10.04.07

So XK- our GL is missing, are you up to stepping up to the plate? Or do you fancy clicking 'agree' a lot and getting called a representative of teh Man? I'm just mindful of what Haus posted somewhere about forcing people into a corner to accept mod powerz, it's up to you how you want to interact with the board.

19:30 / 10.04.07

It's pretty fucking fantastic when people you hold in high regard want to give you the keys to the Cabinet of Gears and Whirling Thingies but for many of the reasons Quants very thoughtful dished out I'd like to stay a non mod.

Though I'd think GL sill pops in from time to time and maybe one of these nights there will be a thread or two kicking around to keep 'em reading.

19:34 / 10.04.07

GL sill pops in from time to time

Like Obi-wan in Jedi.

20:31 / 10.04.07

Well, I'm no XK, but if nobody had onjections then I would quite like to help out.

20:54 / 10.04.07

I moderate in the Temple and although I might not chip in every other second perhaps I should confirm in writing that I am reading it all. I think I'm a very useful moderator there because I'm not so invested as perhaps Mordant and Quants are but I am actively involved in the forum, understand all the discussions and can follow quite technical magical conversations.

However, if people feel that I should rescind my position as a Temple moderator in order to benefit the forum I would be happy to do so.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

21:02 / 10.04.07

Aw no, don't do that! I think it's great to have calmer, nonshouty people around. Modding on Barbelith isn't really like modding anywhere else, really, because of the voting system. We need people who are invested enough to vote on edits, even if they're a bit quiet.

21:17 / 10.04.07

I do like moderating in the Temple so I shan't stop if it's not specifically requested.

I think if the Temple needs more Mods then I would like to nominate Justrix as a moderator. She has been a very active and important contributor for a goodly long time. I don't really understand why she is not a moderator already, other than that she has not volunteered. There may be a reason for this and I would not like to pressure anyone.

Another suggestion is Id. He is clearly knowledgeable about magic and is an excellent voice of reason. Equally, the same 'no pressure' thing applies.

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