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Marvel Mythology Surgery

  
  

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This Sunday
06:20 / 19.01.06
Amanda was, to my memory, always intended to be Kurt's adopted sis, and it simply wasn't revealed to him (or us) for a few issues. But, y'know, is that even legally incest in the States? Adopted siblings with no blood ties? I'd imagine Nightcrawler's more concerned with the 'love ya, ya big fuzzy elf you', 'Kill for momma!', 'Kurt, honey, grow a beard', 'more people should explode at random and add to my magickal awsomeness', 'let's honeymoon in hell.'
And how does Kurt Wagner grow a beard? Does he regularly trim down muck of his head, and otherwise it'd all be as shaggy as the stuff on top of his little blue skull?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:08 / 19.01.06
And, personally, I believe if the big Russian Terminator were to try and punch his dead sister, she probably wouldn't feel a thing.

Yes. If there's one thing that we have learned from the example of Colossus, it is that you can definitely say with confidence that people in the Marvel Universe are dead when you think they are. Especially if they have powers involving demons, teleportation and mystic realms.
 
 
SiliconDream
12:54 / 19.01.06
Indeed - the Cyclops/Havoc thing is the exception rather than the rule, I think - although I am now struggling to think of other familial bonds with directly offensive powers. The Bedlam brothers? Cannonball and Husk, possibly? I'm pretty sure that if Collosus hit Magik in the face, it would have killed her. Jamie and Brian Braddock, I'm pretty sure, have used their mutant powers against each other, and Elizabeth can, IIRC, read Brian's mind.

Jamie and Betsy have each subdued the other with their powers, no extra effort needed.

Nate Grey's thrown down with most of the 616 Grey-Summers clan, plus Madeline Pryor/Evil Alternate Universe Jean Grey, and didn't seem to have much trouble tagging or being tagged by them.

Magneto's knocked out Quicksilver before.

Well, he and Betsy were fraternal twins, not identical

Although it would be inexpressibly awesome if Captain Britain and pre-Asian Psylocke were androgynous identical twins, and nobody ever realized it because they wore different clothes and Betsy dyed her hair.
 
 
X-Himy
15:49 / 19.01.06
I think that Cyclops and Havock being unable to hurt each other with their powers has to do with (as said earlier in the thread) the nature of their powers. They are both supposed to be able to absorb a wide range of energies, and then redirect it (through eyes or hands). I assume that they basically just absorb each other's energy blasts. Cyclops feeling a little down? Well his brother can give me a pick me up.
 
 
Mr Tricks
16:52 / 19.01.06
It's been stated that Cyclops primarily absorbs Solar rays to power his Eye beam and IIRC a prolonged stay away from the sun (like underground, or at the north pole for a winter)would eventually deplete his ability. He did at one point use lightning generated by Storm as a power source but it was described (by Clairemont) as a jet engine running on Diesel fuel. Along those same lines He can absorbs Havok's "Cosmic Blasts."

Havok's powers are generated by absorbing ambient cosmic radiation. Back in the day, his ability to do so prevented another mutant, The Living Monolith, from absorbing those same energies and using his own mutant abilities. While he can absorb some of the energy from his brother's eye beams, he seems to still be affected by the concussive force associated with them; only to a lesser degree.
 
 
John Octave
17:07 / 19.01.06
Why do both Longshot and Cable have the exact same glowing-eye thing when they have nothing to do with each other? Longshot's eye glows, I thought, when his luck powers kick in. And Cable's eye glows because it's a bionic eye, right? (Or maybe it's related to his powers, which would explain why X-Man's got one as well.)

So is there some connection between the two in continuity? Did Liefeld at one point intend Cable to be some kind of post-apocalyptic Longshot (I know he was meant to be Cannonball from the future for a while)? Or is it just a coincidental visual quirk that X-artists play with, like how being a mutant appears to make you more likely to have white/silver hair at an abnormally-young age?
 
 
Aertho
17:34 / 19.01.06
Cable is the first character made by Image. That should explain nearly everything.
 
 
Spaniel
09:15 / 20.01.06
Okay, so I downloaded a recent Spider title (yes, my mistake) that has Flash being interviewed for a post at the school Peter teaches at. Flash claims not to have seen Peter since high school. Can this be true? Wasn't Flash seeing the Black Cat for a time there, and weren't he and Peter friends? Is this a case of continuity being thrown out the window (hey, I don't care, but there are those that might)?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:20 / 20.01.06
I heard somewhere that Flash was in a coma for a while and just woke up, so maybe he's lost some of his memories, which could lead to HILARIOUS misunderstandings... if the regular Spider-Man titles were allowed to be hilarious anymore. But they're not, because Petey only jokes to hide the PAIN and FEAR, so instead we will have ANGSTY PO-FACED misunderstandings.
 
 
Tom Coates
09:49 / 20.01.06
Can I just say w/r/t the whole Legion situation, and with full awareness of the stupidity of picking wholes in the science of comic books, that it makes absolutely no sense for Legion to be his own father genetically. In order for this to be practical, then one of the following would have had to have been the case (1) he'd have had to completely co-opt the genetic material of his mother's egg, hence being a totally self-created creature with a genetic code that just appeared out of nowhere, (2) there would have had to have been an absolutely astronomical (as in unlikely to happen within the life of the universe) moment of chance which meant that of all the billions of genes in his system (inherited half from his mother and half from his father/himself), the sperm that managed to meet his mother's egg would only contain the genetic material from his father with absolutely none of his mother's DNA in it, and that his mother's egg would have to contain absolutely perfectly the half of her DNA that were already present in Legion - this is so statistically improbable that she might as well have spontaneously turned into a duck for all the sense it made or (3) in each pass, given a random assortment of DNA from his mother and a random assortment of DNA from himself (given that he himself is half the DNA from his mother), each time-travelling loop would result in a version of Legion that was slightly genetically different, with the changes escalating over time towards being an identical clone of his mother (ie. his DNA is gradually being overwritten by hers), at which point he would no longer be able to rape his mother and the cycle would end with an entirely different future.

Cf. the whole being your own grandfather thing. Compare and contrast with this analogy - take a bucket of yellow sand and a bucket of red sand. Make them 'mate' by mixing them together. Now divide this in half randomly and ignore one half so that you get one new bucket representing the available genetic material of one person - the child of the original pairing. Now make this mate with a green bucket of sand by mixing them together and then randomly divide this pile in half so that you get two piles, one of which you ignore, and the other of which represents the newly available genetic material of the grandchild of the original pairing.

Now, being your own grandfather would require the colour of the grandchild's bucket to be IDENTICAL to the colour of one of the original buckets. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
 
 
Triplets
10:32 / 20.01.06
Does anyone smell milk?
 
 
Jack Fear
11:09 / 20.01.06
Thus wrote Samuel Johnson in defending Shakespeare for not obeying the unities of place and time that were the inviolable rules of classical drama:

"The objection arising from the impossibility of passing the first hour at Alexandria, and the next at Rome, supposes, that when the play opens the spectator really imagines himself at Alexandria, and believes that his walk to the theatre has been a voyage to Egypt, and that he lives in the days of Antony and Cleopatra. Surely he that imagines this may imagine more."
 
 
thirty/thirty
05:15 / 23.01.06
Can I just say w/r/t the whole Legion situation, and with full awareness of the stupidity of picking wholes in the science of comic books, that it makes absolutely no sense for Legion to be his own father genetically. In order for this to be practical, then one of the following would have had to have been the case (1) he'd have had to completely co-opt the genetic material of his mother's egg, hence being a totally self-created creature with a genetic code that just appeared out of nowhere

This maniacal murderer of blind, lesbian pensioners once merged the mutant powers of the three "multiple personalities" who had set up shop in his brain so that he would be "the many made one". This "blessed" him with godlike powers, including the ability to magically travel through time to 1960's Israel and perhaps the ability to completely co-opt the genetic material of his super-hot Ambassador-type mom. Godlike powers like his saggy-breasted aunty Cassandra, one would think. This would explain it all, were it not for the glaring fact that Cassie was not really his aunty at all but a weapon programmed with false memories and set to "KILL TWIN".

If only someone would mysteriously manifest the magical ability to travel back to the spring of 2001 and have Grant Morrison retcon Legion into his version of how the X-Universe should be...

I should probably apologize for my indiscriminate use of quotation marks...erm, sorry.
 
 
PatrickMM
04:03 / 24.01.06
I'm a bit confused about the whole Psylocke body switch thing. I got the impression from reading online that after going through the siege perilous she switched bodies with an Asian ninja. Yet, reading the actual issues at this time, there doesn't seem to be any mention of body switching, it's more that she just looks different. So, did I miss an issue, when did the actual switch occur?
 
 
Jack Denfeld
04:23 / 24.01.06
So, did I miss an issue, when did the actual switch occur?
The question is when did the writers decide that happened? I don't think Claremont originally intended a body switch. I think from about the time Jim Lee started the new renumbered X-Men up until Morrison started writing New X-Men were some of the shittiest comics to ever come out.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
04:28 / 24.01.06
From wikipedia (what you're about to read is why I hated Marvel back then)
After going through the dimensional gateway known as the Siege Perilous, Psylocke was found by the Hand, a clan of ninja. Their leader, Matsu'o Tsurayaba, contacted Spiral to swap the mind of his brain-dead lover, Kwannon, into Psylocke's body. Spiral not only swapped their minds, but somewhat mingled them leaving each woman with traits from both of them. With some physical and mental conditioning, Psylocke, Betsy Braddock's persona in Kwannon's body with some of Kwannon's mental traits became Lady Mandarin, the Hand's prime assassin. As Psylocke, she donned a new, more revealing costume, gained highly remarkable ninja fighting skills and attained the ability to focus her telepathy into a "psychic knife," which appeared as a dagger of energy projecting outward from her wrist.

Lady Mandarin's first mission pitted her against Wolverine. Her psychic knife attack showed her his memories of her, breaking the Hand's conditioning and she escaped with Wolverine and Jubilee, eventually going with them to the country of Genosha, which built its wealth on the basis of mutant slaves, on the trail of the New Mutants, who along with X-Men leader Storm, had been kidnapped as part of the revenge of Cameron Hodge, the former advisor to team X-Factor. There, they encountered Havok, whom Psylocke had psychically nudged through the Siege Perilous, acting as a Magistrate, one of the country's gestapo-like military police. Following the defeat of Cameron Hodge, the X-Men reunited and returned to New York.

In 1991, when the X-Men split into two teams, Psylocke joined Cyclops's Blue Team and started flirting with him. When Phoenix found out, the two women started fighting, but were interrupted by the arrival of Kwannon, in what was Betsy's body, calling herself Revanche and claiming to be the real Betsy. Not even Wolverine's enhanced senses could tell them apart and attempts for an explanation from the Hand were unsuccessful. It took an infection of the Legacy Virus to determine that Revanche was not Betsy and she gave Psylocke the parts of her mind and powers that Spiral had left with her, trading them for her own missing parts. Phoenix trained Betsy in her telepathic powers and Betsy started a relationship with Warren Worthington III, the Archangel.
 
 
PatrickMM
04:37 / 24.01.06
What's got me confused is that Spiral didn't seem to show up in any of the issues surrounding the ninja-ization of Psylocke. What Jack Denfield said leads me to believe it was a retcon done later, is that correct?

I would think if they were going to do a body switch thing, it wouldn't be into another body with purple hair. If I hadn't already read some stuff about the body switch, I would have assumed that Psylocke had just gotten a new outfit and hair style after going through the siege.
 
 
doctorbeck
07:04 / 24.01.06
does anyone else bleed from the eyeballs whenever post-mutant massacre x-men continuity questions come up on this thread?
 
 
A
12:53 / 24.01.06
Only when they're answered.
 
 
Shrug
15:00 / 26.01.06
Wasn't Gambit revealed to be Sinister's son somewhere recently?
 
 
Aertho
15:01 / 26.01.06
X-Men: The End.

Stay away.
 
 
This Sunday
15:09 / 26.01.06
Maybe there should be an X-Surgery thread? For the 'Who's son is Gambit and is he Rogue's twin, Scott's older brother, and Jean's sister (since nobody's ever seen them in the same place at the same time)' styled questions. Or anything involving Siege Harras
 
 
Aertho
15:13 / 26.01.06
I think that's a multiple tiered wiki, DD.

X-Mythos necessitates a cross-referencing of at least 10 separate alternate realities.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:15 / 26.01.06
>> X-Men: The End.

>> Stay away.

I don't say this often, but...

LOL!
 
 
FinderWolf
19:12 / 26.01.06
Wow. That Spider-Man costume is just ten kinds of awful. And I echo the sentiment I've seen online since this pic went us, to the effect of "even Bryan Hitch can't make this train wreck of a costume look good."



I have a feeling the new costume will be around for all of 10 minutes, though, on the bright side...
 
 
Mr Tricks
19:24 / 26.01.06
Shouldn't there be a fourth mech-leg on that Spidey... or is that bottom one intentionally there for MJ?

I always read Legion as actually being the off-spring of Magneto and Gabrial. She just lied to Charles because she felt he'd make a better father.
 
 
Dark side of the Moonfrog1
07:16 / 27.01.06
Rather morbid question, following on from a discussion in the office this afternoon...

Who was the first non-super-powered innocent person to be killed by a super villain in the Marvel universe?

So far I've got Captain Stacey, killed by falling masonry, courtesy of Doc Ock (ASM#90 -Nov 1970). Can anybody think of any earlier super villain murders?
 
 
Jack Denfeld
07:24 / 27.01.06
Wow, good question. I wonder if Namor might be the culprit from Marvel Comics #1 which I think was published under Atlas comics at the time. I'm having a hell of a time trying to find a synopsis on that issue online though.
 
 
Benny the Ball
11:36 / 27.01.06
When did Magneto sink the Russian sub?
 
 
Aertho
11:54 / 27.01.06
The sub incident, IFIRC, was why he was put on trial.



It must have occurred prior to issue 200.
 
 
Benny the Ball
12:05 / 27.01.06
Is correct - was it a lot earlier though? I always thought that the way issue 200 handled it was a kind of clever referencing to an incident that happened in a couple of Stan Lee/Jack Kirby panels.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
12:08 / 27.01.06
That led to Avngers vs X-Men mini if I remember, and it showed how bad ass unstoppble Captain America was. Magneto had some kind of control human minds device and he was using it on Cap to make Cap say something racist or prejudiced, and even using mind control Cap wouldn't say anything, because he didn't believe in anything like that. And that my friends is one of the reasons Cap was my Superman when I was little.
 
 
This Sunday
14:34 / 27.01.06
Maggie sunk the sub sometime fairly early into the Claremont Era. Just after Dark Phoenix maybe? When he came back after the Nanny-bot stuff.
And for anyone wondering if Magneto is right and he's a decent person, go read those 'Defenders' issues before X-Men got going again. The bastard.

Did that red-and-yellow, buggy woman who was with Nefaria and his animal men ever amount to anything after escaping in Uncanny issue, oh, #107 or thereabouts?
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
14:44 / 27.01.06
When did Magneto sink the Russian sub?

150, which is when Claremont started to turn Magneto from typical Marvel villian to a sympathetic character.
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:35 / 27.01.06
Yup 150, He took over that island that surfaced in the Bermuda Triangle. This same island lead to Illyana's abduction by Belasco... perhaps just after Magneto's defeat. Before then he captured the X-men and debowered them some how. It was durring that time the subs were sent in to investigate . . . disputed waters and such.

As far as innocents being Murdered . . . would Red Skull or Hitler figure into those original Capt. America comics?
 
  

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