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Marvel Mythology Surgery

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13:03 / 01.12.04

Moving right along...

... noticed that Storm and Logan are involved...this is the first I've seen or heard of anything like this! Have these two ever hooked up in the past ...

I got the impression at the ripe old age of 15 that those two had some kind of fuckbuddy understanding going on (back in the Mutant Massacre-Australian Outback days). As it was a straightforward, uncomplicated relationship, it had no place on-panel in any X-men story.

And, hey, we forgot the future Hulk: the Maestro! The beard made him evil!

13:06 / 01.12.04

OK, really back to the thread this time.

Interesting point about most of Marvel's future realities seeming heavily steeped in X-stuff. It still bugs me that Marvel doesn't have much of a sense of history, no legacies... ya kind of just get the fact that Nick Fury was in WW II (sometimes they refer to his longevity and apparent permanent 40s-50s age being the result of some serum, other times he's just a plain old regular grizzled hardass), Wolvie was too, and everyone else showed up around 10-15 years ago. Although I think I might eat my words about wanting Marvel to have 'legacy heroes' when I read YOUNG AVENGERS...yikes!

13:09 / 01.12.04

>> And, hey, we forgot the future Hulk: the Maestro! The beard made him evil!

Beards always make you evil. Beards and goatees.

15:09 / 01.12.04

Except for bald black Marvel characters, who are obviously all based on Sam L Jackson. They are not so much evil, as just plain Baaaad.

16:21 / 01.12.04

It could be worse, y'know. If Bryan Hitch was around a few decades ago, the Falcon could have been the spitting image of James Brown.

The lack of "legacies" or a lineage, or even something approximating rational time, points to one of the Marvel strengths. Marvel comics are character-driven (ideally), and the Distinguished Competition has all the icons. This is a giant generalization that breaks down easily to comics geeks, but it seems to hold true for the most marketable properties. DC's Big Three are almost blank slates, personality-wise, and can support a great range of character stories within their vague constructs (leading to more tangible characters that have "taken up the mantle"). A Spider-Man story doesn't work without Peter Parker, "Son of Wolverine" would have a hard time outstripping his daddy's sales and interest, and I can't really see anyone wanting to follow in the footsteps of the Thing.

"Criminals are a cowardly, superstitious lot, so my disguise must strike fear into their hearts... but what would that be?"

Large, orange rock crashes through window, striking protagonist in head.

"THAT'S IT! I SHALL BECOME A... nah."

16:44 / 01.12.04

True...I was thinking about this at lunch and saying "you know, maybe I really actually *like* the idea that Marvel's characters have no history/legacies...it just seems to fit for them." That makes Captain America and his WW II past stand out all the more and seem more special, to boot.

>> Except for bald black Marvel characters, who are obviously all based on Sam L Jackson. They are not so much evil, as just plain Baaaad.

I've been noticing this for a while - thank goodness there are some black/African-American comic book characters who can still be cool and have hair. Although they mostly all seem to have goatees, at the very least. (the black detective in the GCPD over in GOTHAM CENTRAL is bald with a goatee as well, as I recall - although his predecessor, "Hard" Bock something back in No Man's Land, had hair and a goatee)

17:04 / 01.12.04

There's a rumor reported at SilverBullet's All The Rage (RIch Johnston's former rumor column home) that Mark Millar is the guy slated to be writing the THOR return next year. And yet there are also rumors that he's going to write a regular Superman book. Hmmmm.....

17:08 / 01.12.04

Again, excuse if wrong, as I'm really not up on many books at the moment, the whole legacy thing is highlighted by the fact that most character catchphrases seem to have been dropped (Although most DC catchphrases for lack of a better word, tend to be oaths), there is a sense of knowing with Marvel, a wry nod and wink to the character's histories, but no clinging to them - just look at how Astonishing X-Men did the fastball special.
It makes them more character driven, but also it seems less directional to a point. I always got the impression that DC was heading towards a world in the future (be it the Legion, or Superman Prime et al) where as Marvel is very much a blank, open to all kind of thing.

17:48 / 01.12.04

On the question of Marvel Legacies... I thought Spiderman 2099 was an amazing turn of the idea. Cool costume, cool characters, cool and weird stories. There was nothing sacred, and it was a wild ride.

Thanks again to Peter David for giving birth to Miguel O'Hara, and teaching me to love Lorna, Alex, Guido, Jamie, Rhane, and Pietro. They don't make teams as weird as X-Factor anymore, do they?

18:04 / 01.12.04

I dug Spider-Man 2099, too. It was the only good 2099 title, in my book. (And women were allowed to be priests in that book's future!) Miguel O'Hara was cool, I loved the design of the costume too.

18:09 / 01.12.04

Bald Goatee waring African Americna Charactors certainly seem in vogue. At least there's BLADE and for a while the John Stewart GL (though I undertand that's changing). They've at least moved away from the afro and sideburns or the JERYYCURL!!! eesh.

As for other marvel futures no body's mentioned the very good AVENGERS FOREVER storyline which examined how charactors such as Immortus have a vested interest in sculpting the very outcome of the future. See also KANG who interestingly intersects with Reed Richards fater's exploration into the very immedate future which was actually the FF's present (John Byrn Era) but ultimatly sidways in a parrallel timeline.

The Guardians of the Galaxy also delt with a somewhat dystopian future where earth's solar system is enslaved by the Alien called BADOON. Still, it seems to me that Marvel tends to have a much more volatile "future," one that's constantly being sheparded by some timetraveler or being outwright distroyed or rewritten.

I'm also glad for the scarcity of legacy charactors. BLACK PANTHER could be considered one. There was briefly that second GHOST RIDER (as well as the old western version). Also a slew of Captain Americas. Does that James Rhodes IRON MAN count?

21:15 / 01.12.04

phew... i got tired reading that. futures make head hurt

Spyder Todd 2008

18:09 / 02.12.04

As to legacies and future timelines and such, Earth X and it's two sequels (Universe X and Paradise X) pretty much go about explaining how all the crazy countinuity of the marvel universe works (example- did you know Reed Richards fought in World War 2? Bet ya didn't!), as well as how the Ultimate universe and Deathlok and all that fits in.

Plus it's mega-awesome cool.

18:38 / 02.12.04

One of the Earth X books deals with the Ultimate Universe? Seriously? Never knew that. Tell us more.

>> The Guardians of the Galaxy also delt with a somewhat dystopian future where earth's solar system is enslaved by the Alien called BADOON.

I vividly remember a Marvel comic (don't know what it was, Avengers maybe?) where the Badoon were involved and the issue was titled, no lie, "Oooh, La La...Badoon!" after the "Ooh, la la, Sasoon!" jeans campaign of the early 80s. Ouch.

06:33 / 03.12.04

HAH! You think that's bad, there was one issue of Wolverine featuring Deathstrike knockoff Cylla titled "We got Cylla! (can Mothra be far behind?)"

13:34 / 03.12.04

I remember when I watched the X-men cartoon I wondered where Nightcrawler went when he did his zipping about, I think someone mentioned many moons ago that this was covered in the comics, what's the deal?

13:54 / 03.12.04

I think "Oh La La... Badoon!" was an early/mid 80s Claremont X-book. I remember being fucking horrified when I saw that in one of the Essentials.

And the last explanation I've heard for Nightcrawler is that he's taking a shortcut through some really nasty dimension that's full of brimstone, hence the smell. I think there was an episode of the more recent cartoon (Evolution?) that used this as a plot device.

14:05 / 03.12.04

Frankly, I think there should be more comics with names like "Oh La La Badoon".

14:26 / 03.12.04

Talking of fun titles, I always liked Walt Simonson's "Ragnarok and Roll" in Thor 350. He said he'd been holding onto that title, waiting to use it, for years. Not the most sophisticated fun/joke/pun title, but a good one nonetheless.

09:29 / 04.12.04

Remember the Alan Davis issue of Excalibur when the lighthouse toilet exploded and the sound effect was BATHROOOOOOM? Joycore.

07:22 / 14.12.04

How many insane, yet incredibly powerful, reality warping mutants are out there? Off the top of my head, I can think of Legion, Proteus, Mikhal Rasputin, and Jamie Braddock.

Speaking of which, why does every non Summers family consist of the following:
1st born- powerful but insane
2nd born- relativily weak compared to the others
3rd born- generally more useful powerful than the second, but no where near 1st

cases in point

Rasputins

1- Mikhal: Ill defined space/energy manipulation; ability to teleport to other dimensions
2- Pete: converts flesh into organic steel
3- Illyana: able to teleport thru time and space

Braddocks

1- Jamie: ill defined space manipulation; ability to teleport to other timelines; ill defined telepathy
2- Brian: aparently the only non-mutant
3- Betsy: offensive telepathy

this list does not take into account the magick upgrades received by Brian and Illyana

Our Lady Has Left the Building

10:23 / 14.12.04

What about the Guthrie family? I stopped reading X-Men just as Sam's sister joined Generation X but am I right to understand that there's more mutants in the family than those two?

10:50 / 14.12.04

Or the Frosts? There's four, and the three sisters seemed fairly equivalent in power-terms.

20:45 / 14.12.04

I think Brian Braddock was retconned into being a mutant. As far as the Guthries go, a recent X-book implied that they're pretty much all mutants.

00:42 / 15.12.04

Regarding reality warpers, it's the mutant power du jour circa 98-99... remember the Nannites? Gaia? Franklin Richards in Onslaught? add the aforementioned Eeeevil guys and the new version of the Scarlet Witch and you got a serious problem with 616.

When we all got tired of everyone being telepaths, they tried to up the ante and make the new ultimate threat "reality warpers". Now we're back to telepaths, I guess.

And since I love talking personal fanfic, let me spit some Braddock brood nonsense: Now we all know that Mr. Braddock was originally from Otherworld, and the idea is that he was "magic" and/or the "original Captain Britain". We all know Merlyn, from Otherworld was amaster manipulator, and was involved, we can assume, with the eugenic selection of the Braddock children. Now we've seen that Brian can draw power(strength/invulnerabilitiy/energy/flight) from the interdimensional "Matrix". Now add to that his twin sister, a precog telepath, and a reality warping older brother.

What I always thought wouldve been cool is for Jamie to have been the intended recipient of the "Matrix" reality-energy powers, but his development was skewed, and mystically rendered innate/inert. So when that African dude played VooDoo with his HooDoo, Jamie's brain opened up the blocks and thrust him right into the Matrix's energy waves. Now he's able to warp them, travel through them, and can't really find normal reality in his own head.

When project Captain Jamie was scrapped, Merlyn and Daddy Braddock decided to have a go at it again, but this time, split the "power" to see/steer and manipulate the energy Matrix between a set of telepathically linked twins. And thus we have a sensible reason for introducing a Skywalker split. Betsy is able to mindjump into the Matrix and percieve alternate futures = precognition. Brian is able to metabolize the lattice and Matrix into superhuman powers. Together, and with trainging, they could re-edit the Matrix System of Worlds and coordinate the Corps more effectively from any one point in the Continuum.

02:39 / 15.12.04

Love it.

I personally can't wait until super-strength becomes the uberpower du jour. Y'know, Colossus being the most powerful mutant ever because foolish reality-warpers simply cannot make a world where the sheer bigosity of his biceps can be questioned or denied. Telepaths may be able to affect his brain, but his brain isn't in his fist, now is it?

And the term "Skywalker-split" gives a real sporting aspect to the whole idea of writing under the weight of 30+ years of continuity. As though it were "The World's Strongest Writer Competition", or something. Solid gold, that term.

08:04 / 17.12.04

Every once and a while I'll read about the advances in technology that Reed Richards and Tony Starks decide to bestow upon the lowly masses. But if that where the case then all the cars in NYC would be hovercrafts, there would be a bijillion sources of energy besides oil and overpopulation would be solved by annexxing other neighboring dimension. But of course the NYC of Marvel is pretty much like the real NYC. Without the planet-eating cosmic gods.

08:41 / 17.12.04

Wasn't there a mini-series that dealt with that question? I can't remember the name so I guess that's not all that much use.

16:55 / 30.12.04

funny review from some comic message board of What If...Magneto And Professor X Had Formed The X-Men Together?

- Apparently, it would have been really boring. And slightly confusing and messing.

Most of the new What If? books pretty much sucked, only Bendis' were halfway decent, but even they suffered from half of each issue being flashbacks to what "really" happened, presumably to bring new readers up to date.

17:22 / 30.12.04

I personally can't wait until super-strength becomes the uberpower du jour. Y'know, Colossus being the most powerful mutant ever because foolish reality-warpers simply cannot make a world where the sheer bigosity of his biceps can be questioned or denied.

Just wanted to point out that this happened in Uncanny X-men circa #126 when Colossus faces off against Proteus (a reality warper). After taking on all Proteus dishes out, he punches him through the chest (with both fists IIRC) causing him to explode.

17:29 / 30.12.04

What ever became of the Dark Beast? Is he still trapped in this dimension(reality, timestream,etc) experimenting on mutants? Has he ever tried to kill or get rid of the Beast?

17:36 / 30.12.04

Dark Beast tried and failed to get rid of Hank McCoy. He just recently showed up in the pages of Excaliber (I know this bsed only on reading online reviews) and has now developed the secondary cat mutation of the current beast.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

02:27 / 31.12.04

Wasn't there a mini-series that dealt with that question? I can't remember the name so I guess that's not all that much use.

Fantastic Four: Big Town

Was a mess, since editorial took over the script about halfway through and turned it into a jumbled mess.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

02:34 / 31.12.04

Just wanted to point out that this happened in Uncanny X-men circa #126 when Colossus faces off against Proteus (a reality warper). After taking on all Proteus dishes out, he punches him through the chest (with both fists IIRC) causing him to explode.

It's not just his strength...it was established in the early part of the story that Proeus was vulnerable to steel, and the stories that led up to it had a LOT of Colossus questioning his worth to the team, and thinking he should just give up and go home. Classic plotting, and even at 14, I know he was the one who would kill the bad guy.

17:35 / 03.01.05

Very True Rose...
Still, it fits nicely with that whole Strength vs. Reality Warping that was being mused upon... no?

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