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Marvel Mythology Surgery

 
  

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ThePirateKing
23:32 / 11.11.04
Thanks for that, Mr tricks.

But how come only Wanda had her memory wiped? Someone was bound to mention it to her??!!
 
 
Mr Tricks
23:59 / 11.11.04
don't quite know...

at that point she went a bit nuts and turned "evil" and I stopped reading...
 
 
Lord Morgue
07:42 / 12.11.04
Actually, it was Mephisto's soul that Pandemonium was collecting unknowingly. See, Mephisto was blown into six pieces by Franklin Richards, and used Pandy as a dupe to do the legwork. The cool bit was when he'd assembled the five points of the star-shaped hole in his torso, there was still a pentagonal gap left, that sucked him inside out, leaving Mephisto standing in his place...

Last thing I remember by Lee was Solarman. Usual father issues, nice touch was Dr. Doom was using a Doombot because the poor old guy had the 'flu, LOL!
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
08:20 / 12.11.04
Benny, do you mean (Bruce) Jones rather than Johns?

it turned out to be.....
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Betty! This was revealed around the #60 mark. Apparently it was something to do with The Leader as well, I'm told the final issues (75&76) were a bit crap though. The whole storyline is wrapped up in the 8th trade, just out I believe.
 
 
Benny the Ball
08:26 / 12.11.04
Thanks Signor Fish.

I did mean Bruce Jones, but suddenly paniced and thought that there were too many bruces in my head, so presumed I must have meant Johns.

Betty?! I thought she was dead?

That story started okay, but then had loads of stupid zombie crap happening.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:24 / 12.11.04
Obviously they either didn't think about the whole 'someone's eventually going to slip and mention Wanda's children to her' thing back then...unless we're not remembering how it all went down correctly (which I think we are)...

>> Doombots even make an appearance in Wolves of the Calla by Stephen King....

WHAAAT??!? When? How? Do tell!

Yeah, they used that whole thing in Bruce Jones' Hulk to bring Betty back, as we all knew they would somehow, eventually - just in time for the Hulk movie!! Yayy!
 
 
ThePirateKing
14:27 / 13.11.04
Re Wanda's babies - I think that it was heavily implied that everyone had their memories erased (and all evidence removed as if they had never existed) otherwise how on Earth could it work? The Marvel world press would be all over it.
 
 
Lord Morgue
04:57 / 14.11.04
I liked when Pandemonium was using Wanda's babies for arms- he should have done, like, some kind of puppet show with them, like a Punch and Judy thing.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
14:34 / 14.11.04
around that time, I seem to remember that Henry Pym was investigating Wanda's powers and did a test that indicated or followed a Quantum Physics type outcome (sorry the comics are in my dad's loft and as such not to hand)


Wanda was supposed (from my admittedly very poor memory)to affect change in a bar of adamantium



Henry did the test but the outcome was a bit screwey.......not only did Wanda achieve change in the bar but she retrosepctively changed the bar so that the crack in the supposed indestructible adamantium bar had been there all along

In effect she had not only caused the change, but she had created and alternate past, where the crack had always existed (?)


Why Dr Pym's memories weren't similarly retconned was (from MY memory) never explained but I suppose we are dealing with Magick....rather than science


HAVE I REMEMBERED THIS CORRECTLY AND IF SO WHAT DO YOU THINK?



Joe
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
16:20 / 14.11.04
Yeah, that rings bells. I think it was all in Byrnes Avengers: West Coast run
 
 
ThePirateKing
00:10 / 15.11.04

I thinkm it's bonkers, matey, and as such quite typical of the scripting at that time.

Bloody heck, what a load of nonsense the end of the Avengers turned out to be.
 
 
tituba
04:39 / 19.11.04
Okay, the Scarlet Witch has the ability to alter probability. So she has the ability to alter the probability of something happening, right? Does she have the ability to alter the probability of the moon falling out of it's orbit? How does her power work? Is her mutation the ability to change the likelihood of something happening, happening? I know I'm sounding stupid so please humor me...
 
 
Benny the Ball
07:48 / 19.11.04
Theoreticaly she can, although there are a few limiting factors to her powers (distance, her physical state, size of area to be hexed etc). Although because she is always presented as emotionally unsteady I think this could affect her effectiveness in hex casting, or whatever those kids are calling it now.

Although I am not greatly read in Avengers matters, so I couldn't say what her biggest hex has been.
 
 
Benny the Ball
07:57 / 19.11.04
For Lord Morgue;

 
 
tituba
08:38 / 19.11.04
Wanda could be Magneto's greatest weapon against those bastard humans then. She could make it rain bricks, and turn their drinking water into blood and kill their first born...if she was in the right state of mind.

Given the right motivation, she could once again be the greatest villianess to grace the pages of Marvel.

Why aren't there any cool female villians anymore? Marvel seems so strict on these ladies. They're allowed to do evil things as long as they reform two issues later. Emma Frost once locked Kitty Pryde in a cage and called her vile names, now they braid each others hair. Cassandra Nova massacred 16 million people and laughed at killing machine Wolverine, now she dresses like a two year old and writes poems in her diary.

Why aren't Marvel's girl characters allowed to be evil?
 
 
Benny the Ball
09:36 / 19.11.04
It think that it's more of a case of when the girls are bad they are damn near the worst you can get, so they have to be shut down fairly hard or changed - they murder millions, unmake the universe and destroy worlds. Plus, remember all comic book writers are scared of normal girls, and it's all a metaphor of social uneaseiness or something.
 
 
_Boboss
09:39 / 19.11.04
glad someone dug that one up. best marvel comic cover ever.
 
 
Jack Fear
11:23 / 19.11.04
Looks like he's doing a very fucked-up Punch and Judy show.
 
 
Mr Tricks
16:23 / 19.11.04
At one point in that WCA story arch IMMORTUS kidnaps and attempts to marry Wanda because he considers her a sort of NEXUS being where all sorts of timelines converge.

hence that bit with the bar.

Seems like different writers spin her powers in vastly different ways. She's made buildings collapse by having each brick reach is maximum stress point at the same time. She's also had arrows and bullets fall out of the air loosing all of their enertia. With the exception of the recent Dissassembled storyline though she hasn't really been into mater transformation.
 
 
Aertho
17:59 / 19.11.04
Ahhh... Wanda's been suspect for straightforward reality-warping for years. I don't know why people are surprised. It's the only thing that makes sense. She's a multiple-reality nexus-being with probablity powers that are fueled by creativity and concentration.

It would've made more sense if the High Evolutionary had been the one to swoop her up. Didn't his cow-maid rescue their mother while she was in utero? Makes sense that Signor di Wundagore would've made some modifications to the Maximoff/Lensherr kids to prevent their ca-razy powers from destroying everything. Why SHOULDN'T the Master of Magnetism's kids be uber-powerful?

I await the revelation that Quicksilver manipulates the flow of time.

I wish I had the energy to write fanfiction. Alas...
 
 
Mr Tricks
20:18 / 19.11.04
hah... I've always thought the same thing about Quicksilver!!!

drifting into fanfic here:
I also imagine that Gaberial Haller aka LEGION was actually Magneto's illegitimate son rather than Professor X's. His mom of course pined it on Charles hoping he would be a better role model than Mags. From there that vast array of power (including time travel) would seem to make much more sence. to me at least
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:46 / 20.11.04
The thing that slightly annoys me is this whole 'X-gene' business. Kids who have the x-gene will have a power, but it will manifest in a way completely seperate to the parent's abilities, hence Nightcrawler shares the blue skin of his mother, Mystique's natural state, but his mutant power is teleporting, because he has a mutant gene like her, but he doesn't have her shape-changing ability. It doesn't really make sense, but then it's comics.

Legion did make a bit more sense as when he was first introduced, he was telepathic, like Dad, but also telekinetic and pyrokinetic. The reality warping stuff came later, which didn't really make any sense...
 
 
tituba
07:05 / 22.11.04
Like Polaris being Magneto's daughter. I think that was the laziest piece of loose-end-tying-upping I've ever witnessed (next on their to-do-list will be finding a way for Nightcrawler to have fathered Blink). It does make sense and it's not as though it's the first time a female character and an older male character, who share the same ability, were inextricably linked to each other. Instead of making it officially official that Lorna Dane is Mags' daughter they should rather have gone for a surrogate daughter spin on the whole thing. He feels this absence in his life and this hole left by being rejected by Wanda, so he feels drawn towards this young woman, who resembles his real daughter on so many levels and who resembles him when it comes to his mutation. He takes her under his wing and she becomes the daughter he has always wanted the Scarlet Witch to be.

Brilliant idea in regards to Quicksilver, that idea is far more interesting than him just having the ability to run really, really fast. With him controlling the flow of time, he isn't actually running fast at all, he's just speeding up time around him and it looks like he's speeding along to those outside the field he is controlling. Wanda and Pietro are twins (I think) and in the Marvel-U twins share the same abilities and often act as counterparts to one another (Northstar and Aurora, Fenris?). With Wanda being a nexus being through which all points in time converge it seems more appropriate that Pietro would also have a time related ability rather than her having a brother who is just a sooper-dooper athlete. I think Quicksilver is also quite unaware of this ability, he just starts to run and his mutant gene speeds up time and he moves fast. As far as I know he first discovered his super-speed when he rescued Wanda from the angry mob, he ran and since then he has just assumed this is the extent of his mutation.

It’s also interesting to think that if Magneto had actually taken more interest in his children when he first found them instead of exploiting them and using them merely as henchmen, he would have discovered that he is father to two of the most powerful mutants in the world. If he wasn’t such a shit father he could have trained them to use their powers to their full potential and most likely have won the war against Xavier. Then again if he really cared for those two, he would have sent them to the Xavier school where they would have learnt to fully develop their gifts and Scarlet Witch would have met a nice mutant boy and would never have needed to resort to doing it with a kitchen appliance.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
09:39 / 22.11.04
That is a fantastic idea about Quicksilver and makes him so much more interesting

I always liked him as a characther anyway, his arrogance was annoying but also funny and somehow made him a reluctant hero.
I never read the comic but I remember reading somebody commenting about a comic where Doc Samson was talking to Quicksilver and asking him about his arrogance and impatience

Pietro answered (to paraphrase)

"Y'now when you are waiting in a bank queue and it takes forever......my whole life is like that"

Never ead the comic but even second hand, that was an insightful and clever take on things imo
 
 
Joetheneophyte
09:50 / 22.11.04
By the way, anybody who is interested in Chaos Magick might be interested in this

Maybe Quicksilver utilises Fotamecus?

Fotamecus is a servitor that somebody claimed to have created to warp perceptions and events in time. Basically a Servitor is an entity that is created on the Astral plane with specific duties.

Using this reasoning, maybe Quicksilver is the Magickaly orientated one of the siblings and employs such entities to aid in his bidding (even unconsciously)


Foe anybody interested, my own experiences with Fotamecus were interesting. I drew his sigil on my feet and a walk that should have taken 1 hout to 1 hour ten took about 50 minutes. Yes I know this can be explained by my walking faster but for example, I used to run and I never did the same joureny in much less than 40 minutes even running (I was never a fast or great runner)

ANother example was that I gave the Fotamexus sigil to a friend and she said that her usual shopping trip that usually took her 2 hours, took less than 1 hour thirty and that she was not conscious of any excessive speed on her part...in fact she said she even took time to look at some clothes in the Asda (Walmart) store

Sorry for going off topic, I know this is more Temple inspired stuff but I was thinking on how this might be the methodology to explain Pietro's power. Maybe his mutant gene is not only to manipulate time or it might even be instead that he is able to unconscioulsy get his wishes answered by the entities on the Astral plane......this would make Pietro potentially a true powerhouse (just as Magneto seems to have electrical powers and other abilities such as augmented strength that are largely untapped or at least semi unconscious)


Shit, you do know that your idea is probably being plagarised as we speak!

(not only by me! but I am only writing on these boards)

 
 
Lord Morgue
10:24 / 22.11.04
Ooh- like chronokinesis and lentation. Coo'.
Didn't the last revamp of Wanda's powers state she used Chaos magic, because being born next to Wundagore mountain had linked her with the entity Chthon? Or am I just trippin' with the Bradys?
 
 
tituba
10:40 / 22.11.04
Perhaps Quicksilver is arrogant because he knows something that no one else knows (that he and the Scarlet Witch will one day rule the Earth).
 
 
Mr Tricks
16:17 / 22.11.04
Kurt Busiek did retcon Wanda's powers to incorperate "chaos Magic" as understood in the marvel universe. It was even applied durring the Avengers/JLA crossover where she tapped into the vastly deeper pool of "chaos" available in the DC universe (becoming opposite in nature but equal in power to doctor fate who taps into order). Along with that retcon it was explained that her "Hexes" where sort of "chaos" bolts (all pink and squiggly) that would alter probabilities when contact was made. She was then given the ability to tap into and manipulate all sorts of energy sources. Apparently it was her ability to tap intoi energy sourece that was her mutant ability but the circumstances of her birth(upon Wundagor Mountain) allowed her to tap into the Primal CHAOS that was the domain of CHYTHON the elder god trapped under the mountain.

The bit with Quicksilder and te Bank analogy occured durring Peter David's run on X-factor. Doc Sampson was hired to do a psycholocal profile of each charactor. With Hilarious results.

Around this same time Quicksilder teaches himself how to play the Paino to Master level over the course of a conversation. He sits down starts playing super fast and horribly, the others react clasping hands over ears, the playing slows down and he's playing mozart to perfection for the very firest time. That was the speed of his learning curve.

The chaos magic concept sound cool but I don't know if it would help him run on water or up the side of building. Time manipulation may or perhaps he taps into magnetic poles and can quickly relative to the planet's rotation.
 
 
Aertho
17:20 / 22.11.04
Well, if we're diving into the fanfic wishlist headlong, my whole idea with Wanda and Pietro's secret superpowers involves the revelation that they had ANOTHER brother -an identical twin brother for Pietro.

This was all based on the Infinity Gauntlet's establishment of the Marvel continuum's principle forces being Power, Space, Time, Reality, Mind, and Soul.

As Wanda obviously was a stand-in for depowered reality manipulation, and Pietro for temporal powers, my middle-school brain invented a reason for Magda's complicated pregnancy -the third twin began manifesting space-manipulating powers. After the Space-powered twin teleported free of Magda's womb, the High Evolutionary rescued Magda from the other twins' ravaging powers. Unfortunately, he failed to save her life, but manipulated the development of the remaining twin's mutation.

Pietro's mutation was skewed to manifest in templated superspeed -based on those of the Whizzer, some dude named Frank, right? But in actuality, Pietro has a tight temporal field, which alters the flow of time relative to his desire and perception. Like I said: it's crazy. And the last thing we need is another long-lost sibling coming home to roost in the X-Universe.

In case anyone's keeping track, it was going to be a blow out war between Xavier(Mind) and Legion(Soul) versus Magneto(Power) and his kids. How kewl! ...I know.
 
 
tituba
04:59 / 23.11.04
Or rather Xavier (Mind) and his two "children": Legion (Soul) and Phoenix (Space) vs. Magneto (Power) and his two children: Scarlet Witch (Reality) and Quicksilver (Time).
 
 
ThePirateKing
01:23 / 25.11.04

I remember another nice bit of Peter David (I think) dialogue about Quicksilver. Crystal was having some girlie chat with someone about the problems in her marriage and the other girls made some observation that Quicksilver was a bit of a hunk. Crystal looked embarrassed and then quietly says (words to the effect of) "Sometimes it's not always an advantage to be married to a man who does everything hundred times as fast as a normal guy."
 
 
Lord Morgue
06:11 / 25.11.04
Favourite Quicksilver quote: "Oh, the supreme responsibility of being so blasted versatile."
 
 
Benny the Ball
06:40 / 26.11.04
The Peter David X-Factor was great, almost as good as the Geffen JLA, but not quite. I loved his Multiple Man.

Anyway, I've just finished reading GM's New X-Men trades, and was just wondering, what happens to Beak and Angel and their kids? Did anyone do anything with them after Mr M had left?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:09 / 26.11.04
Beak came unstuck from the timestream, and is now part of the reality-hopping Quantum Leap mutants the Exiles. No, really.
 
 
Lord Morgue
01:23 / 27.11.04
Exiles? Weren't they Ultraverse? Oh, wait- Marvel bought the Ultraverse, didn't they, so, no conflict there.
 
  

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