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The miserable thread

 
  

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Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:03 / 24.04.07
That is horrible for you, Boboss. I hope everything sorts itself out.
 
 
Ticker
17:17 / 24.04.07
I hope your family gets all the love and support it needs to get through this.
 
 
Spaniel
20:01 / 24.04.07
Cheers, guys.

Just heard my Dad's had an operation and all is as well as can be expected. Apparently they're letting him out tomorrow, which, frankly, amazes me. Modern medical magic, eh?

The hard work of keeping him healthy begins now I suppose.

Still not feeling great as this is stuff that you can't really fully come back from, but things are looking up.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:04 / 24.04.07
Glad to hear it, Boboss. Still thinking of you both.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:27 / 24.04.07
This isn't so much miserable for me as beyond-grim-into-absurd, right now. But I feel like writing it down.

I've had this incurable, life-threatening kidney disease all my life. The "incurable", "life-threatening" bits are official tags that again, almost make me laugh because they sound so grim, but are true. As of today the clinic is also calling it "chronic".

Anyway, generally it has just been something I knew I had, which every so often has caused me some trouble ~ with the prospect of dialysis and transplant as some inevitable shadow in the future that I didn't think about closely.

This year I think it's all going on a bit of a slide. My kidney function has declined 5% (from 60 to 55) in 6 months, a rate which by my maths would get me down to a problem 20% in 3.5 years. My blood pressure is high enough to worry the docs. I've got an almost constant vague ache in the kidneys, less than "pain" most of the time, more like "unpleasant awareness".

Today, getting fed up of this notion that you wait until your kidneys have fucked up down to 20%, then hook up to a machine and wait for a major operation, I asked if you couldn't take control of this process and have the bastard organs out pre-emptively. They are "massive" (technical term again) with cysts that have spread to liver and pancreas. They are, in my mind, alien monsters in my body. A normal healthy person's insides are obviously no oil painting, but mine must look like a fucking surrealist nightmare. WORSE YET my massive kidneys are starting to make me feel fat.

"Do you notice your kidneys pushing your belly out?" she asks cheerfully.

"I thought I was just putting on weight."

"No, that's your kidneys pushing at your stomach!"

"... oh, OK."

Anyway, today after a lifetime of pushing away this "transplant" idea constantly ahead of me into the future ~ that future being at first long-term, then creeping up to middle-term or even potentially fairly-near term, they told me the truth about transplants ~ the sort of thing I could have looked up online and which I'm sure everyone else knows.

(By the way, dialysis isn't so bad apparently, you just have to have a fucking machine in your house and sit hooked up to it every night! "Most people on dialysis have a... an OK sort of life, not too terrible!"

I wish I'd never asked about that, either. But doc, I don't want to be that kind of transhuman ~ I want to be the groovy type of replicant, not someone who sits with tubes coming out of them and into some big medical kit.)

Here's the story. My body is fine with the monster diseased kidneys spreading cysts over other organs. However, it would constantly try to reject a new kidney. For the rest of my life! So they'd put me on immuno-suppressants for life, which would lower my resistance to the new kidney, and to every other infection and illness. Specifically, cancer. But never mind, the doc said, with that offhand pragmatism they have ~ skin cancer you'd notice pretty quickly on your face, or you could get someone to check your back regularly. They'd screen you regularly for bowel cancer, as you'd be going into hospital regularly for the rest of your life.

And there was me stupidly thinking of it as transplant, then all sorted out with a new existence. The truth is that they don't give you a transplant until not having one would be a worse option than signicantly lowering your resistance to bowel cancer.

"Like the lesser of two evils," I helpfully offered.

She beamed. "Yes!"

Like I say, it's almost too ridiculous to feel bad about. I'm one of those squeamish people who tries not to think about what's going on in their body, and doesn't want the details of operations, so I've just never asked until now. And the answer is the kind of mean joke you can only raise your eyebrows and shake your head at.

"Oh yeah, and there's a 50% chance I'd pass this down to any children I had, right?"

"That's right!" Brightly.

OK thanks... bye!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On a happier note, Boboss I am glad to hear about your Dad.
 
 
Olulabelle
20:39 / 24.04.07
Really stuck for what to say to you about that. I have absolutely no clue as to what I can possibly say to help.

Dude. What a horrible thing to be thinking about and going through.

Oh btw, not that it's any consolation, but that's a lovely piece of writing. Especially the:

"Like the lesser of two evils," I helpfully offered.

She beamed. "Yes!"


bit.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:41 / 24.04.07
The truth is that rather than miserable I feel a bit stupid for not finding out about this before.

And that I'm pretty washed-up, health wise. A surrealist left eye and H R Giger internal organs. I feel bad about this the way I'd feel bad about anything untidy, messy and broken. That's why I asked the doc today ~ I thought that despite the unpleasantness of a major operation, it might be better to get it over with and have it fixed, and put it all in the past.

I suppose the bottom line is that she told me it won't ever actually be fixed, even post-op: I will always be fucked, health-wise. It won't ever all be in the past ~ it'll always be ongoing. I'll always be going into clinics for screenings and always taking pills, post-op just the same as I am now, pre-op. That's the new thing I learned today.

To be honest it makes me feel like, rather than decline into one or other form of half-life, I might as well die at age 50. Maybe I am more affected by this than I thought. Maybe it's that I've just had a whisky.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:43 / 24.04.07
Oh fucking hell, miss w.

Like Olulabelle, I don't really know what to say, other than...

...actually, I don't even have an "other than" bit.

Shit. You're in my prayers. That's about all I can offer in the way of help, other than love and support.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:44 / 24.04.07
Thank you Olulabelle. I don't know why I write this stuff on here really, except that it just helps to have somewhere to write it ~ and it helps to make something, you know, positive ~ a little bit of writing, a couple of decent turns of phrase ~ out of this kind of hopeless, headshaking prospect.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:48 / 24.04.07
And Stoatie.
Thanks!

It's not all bad. It makes me want to have a worthwhile and fun life. It makes me want to cut my life short before all the bad shit really kicks in, but that's just a fantasy on my part, I expect. It just makes me feel better to think I have some control, and that I could decide to live a really good 45 or 50 years, then just draw a line under my time on the planet. I doubt I'd do that, but it helps me to think I have some decision, some agency.

I'm going to duck out of this thread now before it becomes a(nother) wonderstarr whinge-fest
 
 
illmatic
20:49 / 24.04.07
Jesus Christ. That's horrible, Miss W. Fuck. My fullest sympathies.

Are there any support groups or anything like that for people with similar conditions? That *may* some help.
 
 
grant
21:16 / 24.04.07
This is a kind of strange connection, but one of my best friends in high school donated a kidney to the fellow who is now my stepson's uncle (that is, the brother of my spouse's ex-husband) who had some kind of kidney ailment that sounds similar. He's doing quite well with himself, post-transplant -- he's physically active, got married, had a kid, and is reaching all kinds of career success. I don't know what kind of pills he's on, and (as the backstory should make evident) don't ask too many prying questions when he visits, but he seems quite... well, actually.

I'm also suspecting the kinds of cancer your doctor was referring to are the kinds of cancer that generally aren't lethal or even particularly dangerous, as long as you're getting regular medical checkups. I think I know more who've had basal cell carcinoma than who haven't, for instance. It's a hassle, and not terribly fun, but not really something that should interfere with quality of life.

And in third place, I'm guessing within 5 to 7 years, there's going to be kidney transplants available from your own cells, thus no rejection, no immunosuppressant drugs. They've already done it with bladders, so it's not science fiction.

So, hope.
 
 
Ticker
21:38 / 24.04.07
...and I have a couple of good friends who have treated ovarian cysts through diet quite successfully. I'm wondering as the kidney is a protein sensitive beast if a naturopath might be able to make some suggestions? As it is a filter organ maybe you can figure out a way to give it more slack?


THE POLYCYSTIC KIDNEY RESEARCH FOUNDATION'S NEWSLETTER ON LOW PROTEIN AND SOY PROTEIN IN THE DIET.

The news letter for the Polycystic Kidney Research Foundation (Vol.13, issue 1, Special Issue 1998) states that The Nutrition Research Group for the Retardation of Polycystic Kidney Disease studies have shown the restriction of dietary protein early in the course of PKD (before the manifestation of clinical symptoms) can significantly slow disease progression. The rate of enlargement of kidney cysts, including total kidney size, is significantly reduced. In addition, the amount of time for progression to kidney failure is delayed considerably. Also, We have demonstrated that soy protein isolate (an ingredient manufactured from soybeans and used in various food products), when substituted for animal protein (in the form of milk casein), was found to retard the progression of PKD. The progression of PKD in Japanese patients is significantly slower than that for corresponding North Americans. The slower rate of progression of PKD in Japan has previously been attributed to genetic factors. We are pursuing the likely possibility , based on our animal experiments, that the slower progression of PKD in Japan may partly reflect the differences in the Japanese diet. The Japanese diet has lower levels of protein (including higher intakes of low-protein, carbohydrate-rich, rice-based foods) and much higher levels of soy-based products and associated micronutrients.


might be quackery or useful?

Not sure what you have but this is from the PKD foundation
 
 
Essential Dazzler
21:44 / 24.04.07
Two weeks ago my Granny (I was going to use Grandmother, as I normally do when I'm talking to people outside of my family, as it's less embarrasing, but fuck that. She's my fucking Granny Godammit, I'll FITE! you!) Who has been increasingly depressed, fearing her increasingly slurred speach was symptom of Motor Neurone Disease was brightened considerably by being given an all clear on that particular decision.

Last Wednesday she was told the tests were wrong.

Last Friday morning I went to see her. It was horrible, I winced every time I caught her getting the tissue out of her sleeve to wipe the drool from the corner of her mouth. I'd only ever see it in the corner of my eye, as she'd wait until no-one was looking at her.

I've finally bitten the bullet and googled around for info on the disease.

I wasn't miserable before because I could pretend it wasn't that bad, but now I know she only has %50 chance of surving a year.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
21:54 / 24.04.07
I might as well die at age 50.

Don't be going anywhere until you've published your novel, Miss W.

I'm serious.
 
 
Quantum
22:52 / 24.04.07
Miss Wonderstarr, all the love in the world to you, and healing wishes. I hope you can take heart from grant's story, and I'd like to add that I hope you feel more optimistic soon. It might sound twee but I think dealing with the psychological repercussions at the same time is a good idea- I mean to say, apophenia has a sound suggestion about support there.
I've been seriously ill as I'm sure a lot of people have, and I'd say that fatalism isn't the best way to deal with it, at least, it wasn't for me. It wasn't fun of course, but I found support from friends and family and acquaintances (sometimes the most unexpected people) helped me have the motivation to get over the treatment. Dealing with the fear and anxiety was (I feel) very useful in helping the healing process generally.
What I'm awkwardly saying is good luck to you, if the internet were more advanced I'd hold your hand.
 
 
Quantum
22:58 / 24.04.07
Pacific state, best thoughts to your granny as well- I hope you tell her strangers on the internet are sending her good wishes.
 
 
Spaniel
06:11 / 25.04.07
Pacific, my grandmother was also misdiagnosed - in her case stomach cancer was mistaken for irritatble bowel syndrome - so I know how you feel.

MW, that's really tough, but on the bright side, like Grant I know someone who has lived a long time on immunosuppressants and they've never been anything but the picture of health.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
06:27 / 25.04.07
Pacific State, that's really distressing. I'm very sorry.

miss. w, that must be very scary for you. I sincerely hope that you get the care and support you need.
 
 
The Ghost of Tom Winter
09:56 / 25.04.07
Boboss, I'm really glad to hear your dad is okay. I know how hard it is to try to keep a realtive healthy, my grandpa smoked for 60 years, it was hell to try to keep him off it. Keep the faith, the operation parts are always the hardest.

miss wonderstar, I'm truly saddened to hear about that. One of my favorite performers, Phil Lesh, had a transplant (although it was his liver) and he's still performing shows with an even greater flare. My best wishes go out to you.

Pacific, I hope your grandmother gets well. The best advice I could at hope to offer is to just be there for her. I hope things work out.

All you guys are in my thoughts and prayers.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
10:31 / 25.04.07
Thanks guys ~ it still makes me smile a bit that the disease PKD is of course the name of the author of "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep"

The idea of kidneys being cloned from my own genes seems the most positive option, but I don't know how close they are to doing that: otherwise, it really does seem like going from one relative misery to another, different but equal misery.

It makes me feel a bit sad to be in the kind of situation where people cheer you up with stories of someone similar who has an OK sort of life, and can do most stuff! and most of the time, is mostly normal and seems quite happy! That's not to be ungrateful at all to anyone on this thread; it's just honest, and selfish, that I feel it's a shame I'm destined to have this kind of chin-up, it could be worse, you'll only be on a machine for 2 hours a day, and most people in your situation can still keep a job type of lifestyle.

It could be worse, and by the sounds of it, it's just long-term inconvenience, usually-bearable pain, and mildly upsetting, low-level miserable medical involvement for the rest of my life rather than anything more severe and damaging, but I still feel a bit... pissed off about it.

I do feel that it's quite positive to try to make the most of your life while you're still basically OK, if you know your quality of life is probably going to deteriorate. And it's no doubt better to know well in advance, so you can do all that stuff like write novels (although actually, writing is probably one of the key things you could still do while in and out of hospital and hooked up to machines.)

Thanks again everyone, I shall re-read some of the longer comments and advice.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:55 / 25.04.07
God, Pacific. That just sounds like the most terrible thing. Hugs, really.

MW: grant says:

I'm also suspecting the kinds of cancer your doctor was referring to are the kinds of cancer that generally aren't lethal or even particularly dangerous, as long as you're getting regular medical checkups.

That's about right - the immunosuppressant they are probably talking about is cyclosporin, with which I have a degree of familiarity, or possibly tacrolimus. There's a rhythm to the process - over Summer, if one does not take care to cover up and avoid the sun, one gets small skin cancers, which can then be hacked off by a doctor. It's not exactly the best rainy day adventure ever, but it's not as bad as the words "cancer" and "operation" might suggest.
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
11:05 / 25.04.07
Cyclosporin was what got me out of my colitis flare-up. It was a stopgap until the Azathioprine I was taking began to work. It's not recommended for long-term use but in my experience less harsh than I imagined. It depends on your dosage, of course.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
16:20 / 25.04.07
Well, they won't give me a transplant until my organs are dangerously rubbish, it seems, but it's good to know more about these things, thanks Haus. The doc did say bowel cancer was the form they were most worried about with post-transplant patients, but also that they'd be way more likely to identify it sooner because of all the regular screening.

Meantime, I'm just keeping on keeping on! It puts little work problems in perspective, anyway, which is positive.
 
 
Papess
16:25 / 25.04.07
You have the most amazing attitude, miss.wonderstar. Bless you for that. And I agree with, Olulabelle: even though the subject is a difficult one, you write about it with grace and wit.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
16:44 / 25.04.07
I have the most amazing ego I think: I am determined that some basic sense of self will pull me through, and that I should do it with as much style as I can manage. I believe superhero comics are to blame.

Anyway I feel better today, thanks everyone.
 
 
This Sunday
16:55 / 25.04.07
wonderstarr, I really tried to avoid your news in this thread (for entirely selfish reasons), but I really do think wanting to or deciding you're going to stick on helps.

But I do hope it goes as smoothly and as less-painfully as it can for you. More than not liking the notion of a miss wonderstarrless world, I don't like the idea of you suffering. That's my selfish prerogative, but I figure you'd sort of feel the same way as y'know, the pain hurts you and all.

"I really wanted to be Envelope Girl" is the sort of lovely admission that makes Barbelith work for me. I don't even know where you posted that, but it's in here somewhere, and I don't think I'm like to forget it for very long at a stretch. "I really wanted to be Envelope Girl, but she's so mean." or something like that.
 
 
Tsuga
09:32 / 26.04.07
My young brother-in-law got shot in the hand yesterday in Iraq, I think he's on his way to Germany now for more surgery or already there. The three other guys on his team were also shot but not seriously wounded (I heard), but two Iraqis were killed. What a fucked-up pile that whole mess is. The only good side is that it will probably keep him home, though it's going to freak him out to be sidelined. He's in a special forces branch of the military, and he just got re-deployed to Iraq recently, after a promotion. He's really a very smart and sweet guy, I've known him since he was three. I feel terrible that this happened to him, but I'm just so glad he's not dead.
 
 
Shrug
11:52 / 26.04.07
I've been thinking on the posts over the last page for a while, all difficult unpleasant situations (that, of course, being more than a mild understatement) and I'd like to urge perseverence and lend hope to all who've posted their worries (with whatever possible respite an intangible internet well wisher can offer). It all amounts to a *huggle* really but I didn't want it to seem so frivalous.

Nevertheless, chin up, you've done magnificently so far in each given situation (I'm sure) I hope you continue to do so. x?
 
 
_Boboss
12:04 / 26.04.07
Tumours fuck off tumours.

Post natal depression fuck off post natal depression.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:09 / 26.04.07
Look on the bright side, miss w- as someone who needs to be screened for bowel cancer myself, I can tell you that while the procedure is quite icky, they DO give you pethedin, and that shit rocks.

Sorry to hear about your brother-in-law, Tsuga. And basically everything filth trough said- strength to you all.
 
 
imaginary mice
17:04 / 27.04.07
I’ve been reading this Times article about the BNP and all 262 comments that go with it over the last couple of days and I can’t get it out of my head. It’s so fucking depressing and utterly disturbing. 95% of the comments are in support of the BNP and completely disgusting. I’m sure it’s because BNP supporters have been encouraged to flood the site with their contributions. Of course it doesn’t mean that 95% of the British population share these views. But still…
I know there are a lot of BNP supporters out there but I never expected these kind of comments on the website of a major newspaper.

And I’m really annoyed with myself. I wish I had read the article a week ago, when I was sent the link. Then I could have posted about it on Barbelith and encouraged people to comment. It’s almost too late now. Almost. I still think that the site could do with some contributions from Barbeloids. Please help! Post some comments and cheer me up. It’s Friday evening and I don’t want to feel this miserable for the rest of the weekend.
 
 
Jack Fear
17:38 / 27.04.07
My best friend's parents—two astonishingly lovely people who were, for a while there, like a second set of parents to me—were among the eight people killed yesterday morning when a truck plowed full-tilt into stalled traffic on a freeway in Indiana. They were on their way to visit their new granddaughter, born just six days ago.

I am, to be blunt, fucking gutted; and the more I think about it the worse it gets.
 
 
This Sunday
17:56 / 27.04.07
If I've got one grudge with the world, it's that it finds stupid ways to kill people when it's not necessary. I refuse to believe the dead are anything but alright, but for all the people left trying to sort the mess?

I hope you hold up alright, with everything. (I'm no good at this sort of sympathy; ask anyone whose ever been to a funeral with me, and the best you'll get is 'well, he tried.') I really hope the granddaughter's parents are doing alright, and not blaming themselves. My sister-in-law just lost several relatives, and while rushing up, her brother died speeding along a highway; closer relatives blamed their holdig the funerals responsible for his death.

Deal with it later, Jack. I know that's horrible advice from a psychological standpoint, but seriously. You'll work through things on your own time.
 
 
Spaniel
18:10 / 27.04.07
Shit, man, that's rough. I really don't know what to say.
 
  

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