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A joke to cheer everyone up. Mayhap, this could turn into a prolonged and merry joke thread...

 
  

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Spatula Clarke
23:15 / 12.02.07
Kind of proving my previous point with that comment about RAW.

These things go faster every time, don't they? Some day soon we'll have somebody sign up, offend a bunch of people, say they're leaving, come back and tell us that some supposed board godhead would be disappointed in us, leave, post a long whinge on their blog, come back and get banned in the space of a single post. That day can't come soon enough.
 
 
Enamon
23:15 / 12.02.07
Tom: a) these jokes are not edgy, they are incredibly conventional and tie into very conventional atittudes, in particular belittling or insulting women. b) The argument that one can behave in a racist/misogynistic way as long as one is confident in oneself that nobody would ever think you _were_ either of those things has been pretty soundly debunked around here.

...

Have you read this thread at all? And can you please explain to me how dumb blonde jokes are misogynistic? And could you also explain to me why they are the only thing you find offensive in this entire thread?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
23:19 / 12.02.07
Enamon, let's start with the name Nina. It is usually a woman's name, and in this case the poster in question is on record as being female-identified. Whether or not the poster is blonde is not the issue, as has been stated many times.

And those weren't personal insults, by the way. They were jokes. Bill Hicks would rise from the dead and hunt you down if he thought you were trying to censor me for pushing the envelope with that kind of humour.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:19 / 12.02.07
You have no interest in listening to anyone else in this thread, Enamon. Why should I indulge your pretence?
 
 
Enamon
23:19 / 12.02.07
These things go faster every time, don't they? Some day soon we'll have somebody sign up, offend a bunch of people, say they're leaving, come back and tell us that some supposed board godhead would be disappointed in us, leave, post a long whinge on their blog, come back and get banned in the space of a single post. That day can't come soon enough.

Offend a bunch of people? These are DUMB BLONDE JOKES! I don't think a bunch of people were offended. I just see a trifle of posters stating that they're misogynistic which is something I disagree on. Apparently they've resorted from debating things rationally to just insulting anyone who does not agree with them.

And I have RAW on the Ouija board line. At least I think it's him... could be Uncle Pete just having a laugh though.
 
 
Enamon
23:25 / 12.02.07
Flyboy: The only thing I see is

If John had the capacity to think he never would have put that stinking pile of elasticated pants into this thread in the first place. Let's not demand the impossible, we'll only be disappointed.

A personal insult (great moderating of the board rules, btw) stating very little as to why she was offended and by what. Stinking pile of elasticated pants?

Is this the only woman who was (possibly) offended?

Tann:

I'm listening. No one's replying though. How exactly are dumb blonde jokes misogynist? Go on, call up someone you know and tell them a dumb blonde joke. Then ask them if they were offended. Also ask them if they think that blonde women are stupid. I'll await your reply.
 
 
Quantum
23:28 / 12.02.07
Enamon. You seem to have trouble with this. Let me repeat what Mordant Carnival said in the hope it will sink in- why is the blonde always a woman? Hmm?
 
 
Enamon
23:30 / 12.02.07
...

Wow.

You don't get it, do you?

The question should be:

Why is the woman always blonde?

That's why it's dumb BLONDE joke not dumb WOMAN joke.

You guys are focusing on the wrong thing. Jeez.
 
 
Triplets
23:31 / 12.02.07
But she's always a woman. Dude.
 
 
Enamon
23:31 / 12.02.07
And to reply - because there's a joke that BLONDE WOMEN are dumb. Hell, half the dumb blonde jokes have brunettes and redheads in them. They're smart. It's only the blonde ones that are stupid. I'm still not sure how you can see this as being misogynist.
 
 
Quantum
23:32 / 12.02.07
WHY. MIGHT. THAT. BE?
 
 
Enamon
23:34 / 12.02.07
Eh, you've done it now. I actually went and looked it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumb_blonde

Origins

Like many popular-culture stereotypes, the origins of this concept are murky. The 1925 Anita Loos novel Gentlemen Prefer Blondes: The Illuminating Diary of a Professional Lady (later used as source for a film by the same name starring Marilyn Monroe) featured the character Lorelei Lee, a beautiful but empty-headed singer. While some look to this as the source for the concept, in fact, it might be far older.

Some have suggested that, because Caucasian babies are often born with at least a touch of blonde hair, an association has arisen tying those having fair hair with childhood and youth (and the accompanying proclivities toward naïvité and/or innocence). Also, as blonde hair is often associated with physical attractiveness and youth, some argue that those around blondes may have a tendency to admire or fawn over them, encouraging some to behave in a child-like manner (consciously or not) in order to gain attention and affection. On the other hand, some have postulated that the association is far older, having its roots in ancient times. The ancient Greeks and Romans were fascinated by the fair hair of the Celts and the Nordic peoples and wished to emulate their red and flaxen tresses. People in the Mediterranean area often bleached their hair or bought wigs made from the hair of enslaved Germanic and Celtic peoples, and most notably the highest-ranking courtesans. Due to this association of red and fair hair with harlots, light hair earned a degree of contempt from the high-ranking ladies of society. Medieval Europe, the upper classes tended to be darker haired than the peasantry, likely due to the period tendency to marry within one's own class and the fact that lower class people were far more exposed to sunlight. Blonde hair was, at this time, often associated with commoners, who were ostensibly deemed less intelligent. Puritans, associating makeup and dyeing of hair with prostitution, forbade the dyeing or bleaching of hair, creating an imprint on dyeing hair that lasted until the 1920s. The "dumb" side could have been a way for wives of adulterous men to reassure themselves about the infidelity of their husbands; to think that their husband's blonde mistress was sleazy, worthless, ditzy, and not very intelligent[1]. Or, the idea might stem from the idea amongst Romans and Greeks that Northern Europeans were barbarians and thus less advanced than Southern Europeans.
 
 
Quantum
23:34 / 12.02.07
there's a joke that BLONDE WOMEN are dumb

AHA! You're getting it! There's also a joke that Jews have big noses and are mean, haha, and the funny joke that Irish/Polish/insert-race-here people are stupid! HAHA!

Do you see that some humour is based on propogating values that we here at Barbelith oppose? Like, off the top of my head, sexism?

Do you see?


Please?
 
 
Enamon
23:36 / 12.02.07
Blonde women! ONLY blonde women! Unless blonde women are a sex in and of themselves I fail to see how this is sexism! Please use some reason! BLONDE WOMEN! Not WOMEN! BLONDE WOMEN!
 
 
Enamon
23:38 / 12.02.07
AHA! You're getting it! There's also a joke that Jews have big noses and are mean, haha, and the funny joke that Irish/Polish/insert-race-here people are stupid! HAHA!

Haha yeah and there's also a joke that all priests are greedy pedophiles! And jokes that make fun of SIDS! And jokes that make fun of child abuse! But, hey, no one raises a fuss about that!
 
 
Enamon
23:40 / 12.02.07
So, to conclude, if dumb blonde jokes had all references to the word "blonde" replaced with "woman" then they would be sexist. Having said that, they only concern blonde women being stupid. Every other woman in dumb blonde jokes are shown to be smart. How anyone can think dumb blonde jokes are sexist is beyond me.
 
 
Quantum
23:42 / 12.02.07
Yes they do. Also, you might notice there are plenty of jokes about women that have no mention of their hair colour?
Anyway, nighty night, I'm off to see a real live tiger. I mean, sleep. Hopefully by the time I wake up this will have all faded like dewdrops in the sunshine and people will be talking about baby pandas, have fun!
 
 
Quantum
23:44 / 12.02.07
...but just before bed, off to barbequotes!
"How anyone can think dumb blonde jokes are sexist is beyond me."

Sweeeet. That's the funniest thing you've said by about a thousand miles.
 
 
Enamon
23:46 / 12.02.07
Yes they do. Also, you might notice there are plenty of jokes about women that have no mention of their hair colour?

We are talking about dumb blonde jokes here. This is what the whole arguement is about. Yes, sexist jokes only about women do exist. They are not in this thread, as far as I know, and I am not talking about them. I am talking about DUMB BLONDE JOKES. I have emphasized those three words over and over and over. They have been called sexist by a few members on this thread and I have been trying to get them to explain to me why they think it is so (when the jokes only concern blonde women and not women in general and in fact have all non-blonde women be intelligent).
 
 
Slate
23:47 / 12.02.07
Jesus. Could somebody turn down that high-pitched whine? My ears are bleeding...

Little hint, JLS. If you want to apologise sincerely, following it up with insults and self-pity is rarely a good way to do it.


Self-pity? Insults?

Where? I don't see it.

Merely an attempted explanation of my actions, which I had hoped might go someway to healing any discord I have caused. Why is this so bad?
 
 
Enamon
23:48 / 12.02.07
...but just before bed, off to barbequotes!
"How anyone can think dumb blonde jokes are sexist is beyond me."

Sweeeet. That's the funniest thing you've said by about a thousand miles.


I think you still haven't understood that sexism depends on sex and not hair color. These jokes are only making fun of women who have blonde hair. Non-blonde women who feature in these jokes are shown to be intelligent and are not made fun of. Sexism has nothing to do with dumb blonde jokes. I'm not sure how many times I can repeat myself.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
23:48 / 12.02.07
I did censor myself to refrain from posting wife bashing jokes

Well done, you. It makes me feel so much better to know that although you wanted to share your wife-bashing jokes with the board, and you obviously find them funny, you knew there was a limit. You felt that telling wife-bashing jokes would make you look bad, while telling dumb blonde jokes would not. How you came up with this arbitrary distinction betwen two kinds of misogyny I really do not know.

I bet you're thinking now that your only problem here is that you calculated the limit wrong. Am I right?

And Tom, I don't know what you're talking about with your 'jokes are okay to be told as long as the men feel confident enough in their non-sexism to tell them' rationale. In fact I think your logic there is highly suspect. It totally relies on the assumption that there are, in fact, many women who talk incessantly and annoy their menfolk. Who are kind enough not to bash them over the head, but secure in their masculine identities, will engage in fantasies of said bashing with their mates.

You wouldn't be making the same point about, for example, racist jokes, would you? Or is it okay for 'white' folks secure in their 'non-racism' to make jokes about how all black people are barbaric and hilarious? No, it's not. The image of a group of Anglos in a room making jokes about non-white people as a 'light-hearted fantasy to the problem' of incessantly dumb non-white people brings nothing to mind but your nearest BNP meeting. So why on earth are you making such a spurious argument about men and women?

(And apologies in advance if anyone finds this gender/race comparison problematic, but I can't see another way of pointing out how gross this logic is without transferring it to a context in which its grossness is truly stark.)
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
00:04 / 13.02.07
(great moderating of the board rules, btw)

Perhaps you should read the wiki on distributed moderation? It allows for moderators to express opinions, for example the opinion that you are seeking attention.

Jokes about blonde women, based for their humour on the mental inferiority of these women, express a cosy denigration of women that is sanctioned and approved of by broader society. Esp. the less critical or engaged members of it. While this kind of casual misogyny is generally socially accepted, it is not accepted on Barbelith. Thus, it is challenged. This often makes people who are used to being reassured that they are operating at exactly the right social level quite nervous. Now, one could respond to that by examining, critiquing or changing one's register, or by moving to a place where that register is generally celebrated, like one's circle of friends. However, people often seem to take it very personally, and seek to batter other people into surrendering to their way of thinking, or failing that bash themselves against the consensus until they can feel hard done by and brave when they are asked to leave.
 
 
astrojax69
00:08 / 13.02.07
why are downpipes so sad?
 
 
Enamon
00:12 / 13.02.07
Good god. Not blonde women. Blonde women. There's a difference. Once misogyny and one is not.

But I guess that would mean that nearly every other joke on this thread is misandrist because, hey, 90% of them involve men!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
00:24 / 13.02.07
Merely an attempted explanation of my actions, which I had hoped might go someway to healing any discord I have caused. Why is this so bad?

Because after your first sentence you went off on a peroration about how spiteful people were being, how these abusers were "mods" (and, by inference, abusing their powers), have an "axe to grind" (rather than, say, objecting first to your jokes and then to your pram-toy-ejection strategy on their merits) how what you did was fine, actually, how you are to your own self being true, how "ruthless" people are being, how the evil critics want to create t3h CLONES...

Let's try to hold on to a kernel of sense. You're sorry for offence you have caused - that's good. You don't think your sense of humour is going to change. Therefore, to demonstrate your sincere contrition, you might want to keep what you have now realised will be jokes that people will object to out of Barbelith. Given that you were just cutting and pasting email jokes, this should not be overly difficult - it doesn't, for example, affect anything you, yourself have created for Barbelith. As near as I can tell, the only things that anyone has reacted negatively to that you created from your own fair grey matter have been your aggressive defence and rather overlong apology for the offence caused in the first place. So, perhaps the answer is to keep faith with your own words rather than reproducing and then defending other people's...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
00:28 / 13.02.07
Good god. Not blonde women. Blonde women. There's a difference. Once misogyny and one is not.

So, you aren't actually interested in discussing this? You just want to repeat the same three or four things over and over, no matter what other people say? Well, that's a shame, but at least we know.
 
 
Slate
00:31 / 13.02.07
Haus, if this rational is correct, then there is no place for any joke thread on barbelith as someone would always find offense in something. Or am I missing the point because I am blonde?

A guy and his Chimp walk into a bar. They sit down and order 2 beers and the chimp starts to eat everything in sight. The peanuts, gone. The dirty rag that the bartender used to wipe the bar goes down the chimps throat, he even ate a pool ball from the pool table. The bartender is getting a little annoyed with the situation and asks the chimp's owner what the problem is. "Well the chimp has a little problem where he thinks he's human and tries everything we have anything to do with." Eventually the bartender asks both of them to leave and to come back when their behavior is acceptable.

So in a week they both come back and the bartender notices this time the chimp still likes a beer but now he is putting things in his asshole before he tosses then down the hatch.

"What the hell's wrong with the chimp now?" asks the bartender.

"Well, after the pool ball incident he now measures everything first"

I guess this is my lesson for this week?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
00:33 / 13.02.07
Haus, if this rational is correct, then there is no place for any joke thread on barbelith as someone would always find offense in something.

Well, Enamon is even as we speak making lists of all the things that nobody has been offended by so far, although I think that the attitude of the thread changes over the years.
 
 
alas
00:44 / 13.02.07
I am blonde. I am woman. Those jokes were sexist.

Hear me roar.
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
00:52 / 13.02.07
I am not blonde. I am not a woman. Those jokes were sexist.

Also, why is it acceptable, let alone funny, to laugh at people because of the colour of their hair and the supposed characteristics shared by all people with the same colour hair, anyway?
 
 
Lama glama
01:12 / 13.02.07


The Sixth Doctor demands an end to offensive dumb blonde jokes for obvious reasons.
 
 
Lionheart
01:16 / 13.02.07
How do you fit six million Jews into a Volkswagon?

4 at a time.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
03:42 / 13.02.07
Got any gwapes?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
05:54 / 13.02.07
What's the difference between Enamon and some vast vacuous waste of space and personality that sucks energy from those around it and who makes everyone much happier by leaving?

Damn, I've forgotten the punchline. That's why I never try to tell jokes.
 
  

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