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Dealing with aggressive attempts to lower the quality of what is left of Barbelith.

 
  

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Liger Null
21:24 / 19.08.08
Why is an electrolysis practitioner a jack-booted minion?
 
 
Tsuga
22:23 / 19.08.08
I think there is a re-framing of trolling/stupidity to be anything that Barbelith (Haus, basically) disagrees with/dislikes.

Who feels like fisting Buk now?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
05:10 / 20.08.08
Perhaps Buk could fist Portuguese-speaking people?
 
 
Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns
08:52 / 20.08.08
And around we go.
 
 
Speedy
10:10 / 20.08.08
That guy? The firefighter? The one who's always hanging around all the fires, putting them out? I'm starting to think the fucker's actually been starting them!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:32 / 20.08.08
Good work, Speedy! That's 22 posts. Another 3 posts and you'll be King of Barbelith, and then you can depose the bad daddies and usher in a golden age of peace and prosperity.

Christ, and Qalyn says I'm addicted to the Policy.
 
 
Evil Scientist
10:39 / 20.08.08
And around we go.

If by that you mean it's yet another Policy thread that's turned into the Haus-Barbeclique-Conspiracy-Hour thread then yes.

You know there are people other than Haus who are getting a little weary of low-content posting. Some of whom have been involved in this thread. To write them all off as "minions of Haus" seems a little rude to me as it effectively enables a number of varying points-of-view to be ignored.

I'm not sure there's any point in bringing this up now, but I would like to spend some of my hard-earned troll credits to point out that there are also a number of people who were good barbelith citizens* who have left, not because they were made to feel unsafe by offensive language, but because the culture of barbelith began to be centered on and stimulated by these perennial goddam troll scares.

I think that the inability of the site to quickly deal with offensive posters was also part of the reason people left, as was the tendency of some to try and defend the clearly (IMV) undefendable.

Stop banning people, and stop trying so hard to control the direction and tone of this thing, and maybe it'll come back.

Stop banning people for any reason? Are you suggesting total freedom of speech on Barbelith? I'm not sure I like that idea. I think there's got to be some level of control if only to ensure that hate-speech is kept out.

Aren't we at this point already though? Banning doesn't work/happen and the only tool left is mockery, which only works when people are susceptible to it (ie Fungus of Conciousness) and fails outright when people aren't (Buk). So hopefully the Barbelith of 2005/06 (personal Golden Era) is just round the corner.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:49 / 20.08.08
Banning is possible - Torquemada was banned last week. It's just a bit of a pain, which is one reason although by no means the only reason why there is a reluctance to do it, which is also why behaviour that would get you banned elsewhere without this agonising - such as Hector and Dead Megatron's dishonest appropriation of the language of fighting racism - leads to smacks on the wrist, cries in the wilderness, the scrambling of the Eejit Defence Force and so on.
 
 
Quantum
11:09 / 20.08.08
I'm putting a link to here in the pager thread FYI.

To write them all off as "minions of Haus" seems a little rude to me

Damn, weeks until I can change my name to minionofHaus.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
11:17 / 20.08.08
Jeezus Christ, I leave the place for a week and this is what happens.

FWIW, I smell blood and I like it. So count me down for handing the keys to the Fuck-You Button over to Haus or Randy or both.
 
 
Evil Scientist
11:24 / 20.08.08
Banning is possible - Torquemada was banned last week.

Okay cool, I thought you guys were getting nothing but dead air back. That's something at least.
 
 
Fist Fun
12:57 / 20.08.08
Banning doesn't work/happen and the only tool left is mockery, which only works when people are susceptible to it (ie Fungus of Conciousness) and fails outright when people aren't (Buk).

Well I don't really see much difference between trolling and mockery. Or between mockery and being really rude, nasty and hurtful. We disagree about some stuff but you know we can still treat each other with tolerance and respect.

Are you in London? We should just hook up and I'll buy you a pint (or anyone else who hates me!) and we can have a chat and you might find I'm not actually that bad despite my loony pro-free market, pro-democracy rantings. I would imagine we agree about more things than we disagree.

I'm in London September 4th if you are around then.
 
 
Evil Scientist
14:00 / 20.08.08
I don't hate you Buk, I just don't think you contribute anything of worth to the site. Of course that's my personal opinion but I certainly don't seem to be alone in that belief. I honestly think you'd be happier out in the looser world of Facebook groups or where-ever. If you actually made an effort to (sorry DM but I have to use the phrase) up your game then maybe I'd feel differently.

I'm sure you're a perfectly nice person in the flesh, I was sure Paranoidwriter was too, but it's irrelevant if you continue to act like you do on the site.
 
 
HCE
14:03 / 20.08.08
Clearly nobody says anything they actually think, and clearly nobody says it repeatedly for years. We all just find one person, possibly even one person we don't especially get along with, and copy and paste his posts.

All the people who disagree with him, though -- they're individuals who form their own opinions independently.
 
 
Fist Fun
14:25 / 20.08.08
Ok, well let me buy you a pint and we can chat about that without the whole internet thing getting in the way. September the 4th?

I think you are being unfair if you think I have nothing of any value whatsoever to add and you know tact, dude.

Again we are getting in to this thing where Barbelith is just about squabbles and the policy but examples of where I feel I do add value would be um... well look at that poverty thread. It starting off being dismissed as troll and look it has, currently, ended with a new poster "scared about entering such murky waters" talking about their extensive experience working with poverty and how the thread has helped them to examine their opinions.

Or in the democracy "worst thread of all time", I was the only person, well along with eventually and reluctantly Anna de Logy, to criticize the statement that Mugabe's regime is fairer than that of the UK. This was actually said and defended. If I had said that, or you had read it in the Dail Mail, what would your reaction have been?

So I get the fact that you dislike the way I post, and jesus dude I know can't write ( I cringe sometimes, but I'm not great at sports either some people are just last to be picked, ya know) and am frequently dim, sometimes the articulacy and intelligence in Barbelith is amazing but I do at least try. I'm starting interesting (for me at least), on-topic threads. But I am not the only one who is less than perfect.

But again we are wasting lines with silliness when we could be actually discussing interesting things, and having fun and learning from each other and opening our beliefs and ideas to challenge. Which is why I post on Barbelith.

Maybe we could just listen and respect each other more. More respect, tolerance and niceness isn't going to make the world a worse place.
 
 
Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns
15:01 / 20.08.08
Buk...i just read your post and you basically owe me about 15 seconds of my life back.
 
 
Fist Fun
15:14 / 20.08.08
lol
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
18:01 / 20.08.08
Aren't we at this point already though? Banning doesn't work/happen and the only tool left is mockery, which only works when people are susceptible to it (ie Fungus of Conciousness) and fails outright when people aren't (Buk).

That right there is the kind of thinking that feeds the "Haus and his gang are out to get me" feeling that some posters voice. There seems to be a missing action there.

Banning (highest level action): If you say something offensive, are told it's offensive, and won't apologize and keep doing it, well, then fuck you, you deserve a ban. Whether or not being stupid is offensive... well, I'm not sure I'm ready to say that. Feeding the troll complicates this as on all boards, though.

Mockery (if you can't beat em, join em action): Somewhat all too common for a board that professes to be about quality. Sometimes I get the feeling that Quality = Wit.

The Other Road (the reasoned, polite, and neutral action): When a thread or post is of questionable quality, it's increasingly rare that the response is polite and/or serious. If a post is made and it doesn't meet with the nebulous quality of Barbelith, the quality-minded posters should be attempting to, without copious amounts of snark and wit, improve the quality of the lesser quality posters. When Haus says "This is teaching," I understand what he means but don't think he necessarily knows how to do it in a positive way.
 
 
HCE
18:12 / 20.08.08
When a thread or post is of questionable quality, it's increasingly rare that the response is polite and/or serious.

What an interesting phenomenon that nobody has noticed or commented on before. Do you have any idea why that might be? Why don't you ask Seth, Illmatic, id_entity, or alas, all exemplary practitioners of this approach? Perhaps they can shed some light on the matter.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
19:52 / 20.08.08
Did I not create enough ironic distance around the "minions" remark? That whole thing about shooting pool with Grant Morrison, that's not true either.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:07 / 20.08.08
Don't forget Cat Chant/Deva and Kit-Cat Club, HCE. They'll be along any moment to sort this hash out.
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
21:03 / 20.08.08
Keith, Haus is not the Head Cheerleader. This is not a Hollywood high school film. Other things we are not in include National Lampoons Animal House (Haus not the Dean, you are not in a frat house), the British government (Haus neither PM nor Chief Whip), West Side Story (Haus not a leader of Sharks or Jets)
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:46 / 20.08.08
I'm Action. Most hot-headed of the Jets.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:54 / 20.08.08
I don't get the feeling that Keith was implying any of those things, Anna. If anything, he's saying that there are methods which can be used to curb the assumption some posters have made that such situations are going on with Barbelith.

As well, it seems like a fallacy to assume, by naming names like alas or id_entity (whose contributions I dearly miss) as people who have left, that all posters who favour their methods of posting & dealing with problematic posters have left. Boboss continues to be such an example. That some Lithers of that vein of thinking have left is not an excuse to go for a scorched earth policy for all problem posters from now on.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
21:56 / 20.08.08
HCE & Haus: That is a foolish game you're starting, because you both know where there is a whole pool of people who left Barbelith because fighting a fight you cannot win is boring.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:00 / 20.08.08
Lenny: It's quite dull to have to do this again, so let me just refer you back to this post. Hopefully that will help.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
22:03 / 20.08.08
Y'know what, never mind. Someone find Ganesh's watch, it needs setting.
 
 
Tsuga
22:23 / 20.08.08
Haus, have you got a rocket in your pocket?
I want to be Tony, the ex-Jet who just wants to be in love, and for everyone to get along.

"Could be...who knows..."
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:43 / 20.08.08
I understand your position, Qalyn, and to a degree I sympathise. Ultimately, however, somebody either has to try to deal with this, and repeatedly trying to get people not o be douches simply doesn't work, or give up. I'm still currently on the first, and when I hit the second I want there to be some sort of mechanism in place.
 
 
pony
22:49 / 20.08.08
Since Randy's called the general public in for opinions, I'll state for the record that I personally don't give a shit if Haus and Randy start banning "for the good of the board", no discussion needed.

p.s. Please don't ban me.
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
23:09 / 20.08.08
You are unbanned... for now sweet chicken.
 
 
HCE
23:30 / 20.08.08
Aren't foolish games joycore? This should be right up yr alley?
 
 
huckleberry glove soup
02:00 / 21.08.08
"Well I don't really see much difference between trolling and mockery. Or between mockery and being really rude, nasty and hurtful. We disagree about some stuff but you know we can still treat each other with tolerance and respect."

Really, isn't this just kind of the answer to anyone's problem on a site like this? I understand that this place has been around long enough for people to know each other well enough to loathe certain patterns/behaviors.

Don't be a dick to anyone else. Pretend you're in a bar/pub and you have to exist with these other people in a social setting. If you want to speak like an idiot, make snide comments or prove that you're smart enough to be a bad human being take it outside, knock each other's teeth out, then everyone come back in, have a drink and bullshit about better things than policing the population.

bblth nds t gv brth t sm gd jj
 
 
wicker woman
04:40 / 21.08.08
And, quite frankly, the lack of any great noise within this thread from the majority of people still active on the board can only be taken as either tacit approval of the original proposal or an inability to care either way.

I'm going to go with the second, though I wouldn't classify it as an inability, necessarily. This thread is irony slowly being made manifest.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
05:19 / 21.08.08
Really, isn't this just kind of the answer to anyone's problem on a site like this?

It would have a bit more force if it had not come from the author of "fisting black people", however.

Still, glad to have you back, CGS. Could you possibly respond to the question I asked you?
 
  

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